Open Discussion: How Much Should You Tip Building Staff During the Holidays?
Since the topic of what to tip building staff has come up more than once, this might be a good time to discuss it.
There are many different questions about what to tip for the holidays. Here are just a few:
- If you are simply a renter, do you need to tip?
- I have heard that you should tip one month’s assessment. So if you pay $450, it should be $450. Is that the norm?
- What if you have valet parking in the building? (where staff literally gets your car for you everyday.) Is there extra tipping involved for that?
- What happens if you DON’T tip? Every building I have lived in – it has been voluntary contributions. Will your packages suddenly become “lost”?
Discuss away.
And, as always, try and be civil.
“I have heard that you should tip one month’s assessment. So if you pay $450, it should be $450. Is that the norm?”
Are you kidding me? This is as outrageous as the 6% commission. If this is the case, then I’m going to get a job at the building that was just featured (with the 1150/month assessment). My in-town is in a building with 100 condos with an average assessment of 1500/month. That would be like giving 150,000 in tips to maybe 10 staff members. That is outrageous and ridiculous. Also, I know what you are saying about “lost packages” – but I won’t be bullied into giving a tip – that is extortion.
Getting tips for doing your job is downright outrageous. I wish servers / bartenders got paid a higher wage, just so I wouldn’t have to tip. The restaurant or bar should already include this into your tab. If the service sucks, complain to the manager and tell him / her that you are not paying for the full portion of the bill. The server will then get fired. Problem solved. If people don’t like working in the service industry, then find another job.
I’m with Mike on this. I have always thought that tipping was just a way for service industries to bury their true prices.
$250 for the maintenance man. No doorman in my building. The guy makes $35,000/yr – very difficult to live on in this day and age.
Mike HG: If the service sucks, complain to the manager and tell him / her that you are not paying for the full portion of the bill.
I dunno, I prefer the tipping system — nobody’s going to call the cops if you don’t tip your server…
I live in a building without staff, but have a question about tipping my cleaning woman — I pay $70 every other week. Should I be tipping every week? (I have heard some people do; it never occurred to me to do so). Should I tip her at Christmas? I’ve been giving her gifts each year (last year a scarf and some godiva chocolates).
cheap bastards…. a small price to pay for someone who is there to help. I’ve got three doormen and five friends to pay/tip….happy holidays!
I always contribute 1 month’s assessment to the building fund. Sometimes, I tip the staff that is extra helpful/knows a bit too much (late night doorlady), extra!
When I was a very young woman, I lived in a vintage high rise in another city, that employed 11 people- doormen, 2 engineers, and several maids to sweep the halls, plus the manager. I remember buying that many boxes of candy for each of these people for Christmas- that was my “tip”.
The tipping has gotten completely out of hand. A small cash gift is nice, but it shouldn’t be anything you really feel. But ,then, given the personal debt loads most people in this country are hauling around, they should consider scaling back the Christmas gift-giving by at least 50%. We in my family have made an agreement to spend no more than $35 on each other for token gifts. I surely wouldn’t give my engineer or doorman more.
I’m on our condo board. We’ll be giving a budgeted & accrued gift of ~5% to our engineer/cleaning person.
We collect money for all the employees and it is divided up among them. My wife and I tip extra to two door people who have been especially helpful to us.
They don’t make a lot of money. They’re nice people and I have no problem giving them a little extra.
Wow we get to see peoples true colors on this thread.
i waited tables all through college, and wife bartended part time for our DP on the house.
we are insane over tippers. but if the service is horrible we still do 15%.
you guys do know that your waiter and bartender makes only $3 an hour before tips right?
now for a union building engineer i know there tips are not their lively-hood. So thats i always wondered how you tip in large full staffed buildings.
why does the gift have to be cash, cant you donate a tree/star in their name?
Never know what to do on this one, we have great door men but do you consider the size of the building? Also some buildings HOA are to high anyway. One month may have them bringing in more then 10K if the building is big enough plus the cash tips I give them during the year when they do me a favor.
Wouldn’t a better way of looking at it be how much of a year end tip you think they should get and then decide how much to give versus blindly saying one month HOA. That rule makes no sense.. If your HOA is low maybe you should give more if its high probably less don’t you think!!!
“cheap bastards…. a small price to pay for someone who is there to help. I’ve got three doormen and five friends to pay/tip….happy holidays!”
Mocha – They are there to help because thats their job and what they get paid to do. I don’t think they would be there otherwise.
“i waited tables all through college, and wife bartended part time for our DP on the house.”
Groove, I think Holiday tipping to doormen and tipping at a restaurant are two different things. I routinely tip 30-40% at restaurants/bars (depending on how inebriated I am) – but I feel that it was my choice to go to that restaurant and order whatever it was that I ordered. With doormen, condo staff – I feel as though it is extortion (I don’t know why – but I just do).
When we lived downtown we were asked to pay $1000 for the holiday tip (our rent was $1400). I sent $50. This building had 32 floors with 10 or more units per floor, and about 10 staff. They wanted $1000 or more from each place?! That’s going to fund their entire payroll for the year, never mind a Christmas bonus!
Maybe if they had actually been a bit more helpful (especially when I was struggling with the stroller) I might have felt more generous.
Given how easy most of those jobs are I wouldn’t be tipping at all beyond a token gift like mentioned above. I don’t get a Christmas bonus at my job why should doormen who basically do nothing get one?
The size of the tip needs to be in keeping with the price level of the units in the building, and you need to keep in mind that the service people are paid regular wages or salaries, and don’t depend on tips for their core livelihood as waitstaff at restaurants and bars do.
I’d really think that $25 per staff member from each tenant would be more than ample, especially if it’s a large building with a big payroll. Perhaps in really expensive buildings where the help deliver a really high level of service, you could spend more. But if you find yourself spending more per person on the help than you do on your own family members and friends, then you’re spending too much.
Given that we are in strange times, it would behoove everyone to be more frugal at Christmas. I have watched people with incomes exceeding $200K a year trailing 20 years spend themselves into bankruptcy, and Christmas has a way of undoing a person’s best-laid financial plans. If the only way you can spend at the level you feel is appropriate is to put it on your credit cards, you need to revise your definition of “appropriate”.
“I think Holiday tipping to doormen and tipping at a restaurant are two different things”
agreed, i am totally wet when it comes to doormen and engineers in buildings. i mean if those guys are pulling in 50k plus union benefits i think they have a good living and a *20k bonus is crazy
*caculated off your $1500 ass fee and building size and emplyees
“With doormen, condo staff – I feel as though it is extortion (I don’t know why – but I just do)”
like i said why do you have to give cash? cant you give each guy a “thoughtful” gift? (no gift cards or bath soap sets). cant you donate a tree/star in their name? what about a thank you and a day borrowing the lambo? ok i will stop i am getting silly now
Clio,
i remember you saying your building has valet, right? wouldnt you consider to give a extra tip for that?
“If the only way you can spend at the level you feel is appropriate is to put it on your credit cards, you need to revise your definition of “appropriate”.”
The funny thing about credit cards was that I didn’t even know that you didn’t have to pay off the entire amount. I only recently discovered that people actually pay the minimum on what they have charged!! I couldn’t believe it. I still tell my kids that it is a requirement to pay the full amount of a credit card bill (they don’t have one yet) at the end of the month.
“i remember you saying your building has valet, right? wouldnt you consider to give a extra tip for that?”
I can’t stand the valets in my building. They are rude and stupid and think that I don’t know they make fun of me behind my back. How do you tip people like that? I don’t know –
“How do you tip people like that? I don’t know -”
You give them a disposable camera and invite them to sit in your drivers side of your lambo but not actually drive it or why the car is running and offer to take a picture of them in the driver’s seat with the disposable camera you just gave them.
“I can’t stand the valets in my building. They are rude and stupid and think that I don’t know they make fun of me behind my back. How do you tip people like that?”
the stupid and taking behind you are separate than the rude, but i get your point. i would feel the same as you (the extortion). i seems stupid on thier part to be rude and f with their clients as the nicer they are and do a good job then the holiday gift/bonus would be more plus may get a special envelope from some residents on the side of the good attitude and great work ethic.
I have always lived in a full service building (24 hour door, maintenance, and dry cleaner) and our board always suggests the equivalent of 20-25% of a single month’s assessment or 7% of a single month’s rent for the people who rent units. From past experience on the board, participation averages about 70% of residents into the fund and our staff always seems very happy with the amounts given. Other residents prefer to give directly to the staff depending on which door shift provides them the most service, etc. so those amounts are unknown.
I think a small gift is appropriate, but not cash. Hardly anyone gets Christmas/Holiday bonuses anyways, and they don’t depend on tips like waitstaff do. If they are especially helpful, give more.
I guess it was me i would rather not “pool” the money and do a separate gift, but i can see why HOA do so the treatment to the residents will stay equal.
see this whole tip/bonus thing is just another way CONDOS=COMMUNISM. (patent pending per Russ)
I don’t live in a restaurant and the staff doesn’t make $4/hour. They are all union and make a fair living wage. If they are underpaid instead of tipping why not just raise their wages?
(yea I dont tip and my packages dont get lost. The tip is fairly anonymous anyways, especially in a big building)
“You give them a disposable camera and invite them to sit in your drivers side of your lambo but not actually drive it or why the car is running and offer to take a picture of them in the driver’s seat with the disposable camera you just gave them.”
That’s all right, but why not lambo for a day. They would be so happy…
“why the car is running and offer to take a picture of them in the driver’s seat with the disposable camera you just gave them”
what you talking about willis,
Waht would be the best x-mas gift is to have the worker take a picture with the disposable camera of CLIO driving the lambo. now that would bring joy to the workers whole family
*sorry for the joke at your expense clio, but i laughed while i typed it 🙂
Laura Louzader: I remember buying that many boxes of candy for each of these people for Christmas- that was my “tip”.
Back when I rented in a building with a doorman and maintenance staff, I used to bake cookies or make chocolate coated pretzels and put them in nice tins as my holiday gifts. (I still do this for the dry cleaners, nail salon, hair salon, mail carrier, etc.)
fuck that, the building staff should be giving me tips for being nice and treating them like humans for a full year unlike most of the snobs in this town
If I tipped according to the level of service I received, I shouldn’t be tipping much. With the exception of a few employees, the people that work in our building, in my opinion, are pretty much ripping us off. I’ve seen them doing side jobs while on the building’s clock, walking around the neighborhood during work hours, taking naps at work, not responding when there’s an emergency, etc. It’s unreal.
The Association encourages a tip of about $150 for a one bedroom unit. Double or triple that according to the size of your apartment. Once the 200+ unit owners submit their tips, the kitty is distributed according to seniority.
For the people who actually work or go out of their way, I tip beyond the Association’s recommendation.
“I live in a building without staff, but have a question about tipping my cleaning woman — I pay $70 every other week. Should I be tipping every week? (I have heard some people do; it never occurred to me to do so). Should I tip her at Christmas? I’ve been giving her gifts each year (last year a scarf and some godiva chocolates).”
We give a Christmas gift/bonus of ~1 day’s pay. Usually also $20 or something for Thanksgiving.
Also–everyone remember that EVERY employee/service-provider’s favorite store is the BANK. Unless you are actually friends with them, give them cash.
Clio,
The valets at your building have only been nice, courtesy, and prompt with me and my friends’ cars. They are young guys.
“Dan on November 19th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Mocha – They are there to help because thats their job and what they get paid to do. I don’t think they would be there otherwise.”
Dan – your job is to be human…so, this year, you will not get a bonus…. I did not say “pay a lot…” but, it is nice to be recognized as there is some level of a relationship there. If I was married to you, that wouold be my job, but dont expect any sex.
I live in a high rise w/ just shy of 500 units and a staff of probably close to 20 between doormen, engineers, janitors & garage attendants. Our association runs a holiday fund that we all can contribute to, which is then split among the staff based on job level, seniority in building, etc. They publish which residents donated to the fund, but not a dollar amount given by each resident. The annual letter to residents usually mentions a range of $50-$500 as typical gifts. I like this system because it’s not up to me to track down all those staff, decide who gets how much, etc. I write one check… I have a 1BR, and usually give $150.
As for my cleaning lady, I typically pay her $70/visit but on her last visit before the holidays I give her $150 instead.
“but have a question about tipping my cleaning woman….Should I tip her at Christmas? I’ve been giving her gifts each year (last year a scarf and some godiva chocolates)”
i just buy my wife a diamond something at christmas. (wow that was sexist of me) sorry
but my aunt had a cleaning services company, she got gifts and tips for the holidays, but throughout the year her clients gave her stuff all the time wich was hand me downs or used things. she single handily furnished my first apartment with her clients hand me downs.
“When we lived downtown we were asked to pay $1000 for the holiday tip (our rent was $1400). I sent $50. This building had 32 floors with 10 or more units per floor, and about 10 staff. They wanted $1000 or more from each place?! That’s going to fund their entire payroll for the year, never mind a Christmas bonus!”
I can’t really remember any longer, but when I rented at similar rents and similar type building, I don’t remember being asked for that much. I remember paying maybe $300 into the pot and tipping a couple of people directly. Maybe I was asked for that much and ignored it.
I don’t mind xmas bonuses that much. I wish restaurant tipping would go away (but I don’t blame waitstaff for its existence, so tip well since that’s how it’s set up). Not convinced it provides much of an incentive system beyond what would otherwise exist.
“i just buy my wife a diamond something at christmas. (wow that was sexist of me) sorry”
Indeed it was. You should spend less on other stuff and put it toward a cleaning service. Will make everyone so happy. Seriously. Then again, once you start you can never stop, so maybe you’re doing the right thing.
Oh and I have been chased down the street by waitstaff for ‘only’ tipping 12% on really bad service. Probably because we were the only people in there, for a good reason we discovered.
“You should spend less on other stuff and put it toward a cleaning service. Will make everyone so happy. Seriously”
no way then i would have to buy the cleaning person a diamond, as they would have to deal with wifey pointing out each and every corner/nook they missed 🙂
and wife would just clean right after them anyway, think of “want it doen right do it yourself”. it just easier to have her do it her way. all my cleanin chores are redone by her, she doesnt tell me she does it but i know.
““You should spend less on other stuff and put it toward a cleaning service. Will make everyone so happy. Seriously””
More or less happy than having the Lambo stop by during the Super Bowl party?
the whole thing is shenanigans. esp when the managment company hits the tenants up for the christmas bonus of the managments employees. wtf? that is some sneaky way to pad their bottom line. if your doorman deserves it give him something. if he sits on his but and pushes a button, or is one you never have contact with and he’s not helpful…how does he deserve a tip?
I usually tip the guys who get my car (we have valet) a buck. valets at restaurants get two or 3. Waiters get 20% pre tax if they are competent though I was satisfied getting 15% when I waited tables in the mid 90s.
“cant you donate a star in their name”
Ah the International Star Registry. A close friends family owns that company. It is funny as that odd present brings as much joy to some people as it does laughs to others. The family has made a great living off of this novelty over the years. They also have employed many many people with decent paying jobs. I’m just bummed that I have not thought of a similar cash cow…..yet!
When I lived in my high rise in Wrigley they had a suggested tip amount for condo owners. The dollars collected were split evenly among the employees based on seniority. I’d always put in a fair share but slightly lower than the suggested amount. I figured the amount was inflated due to many owners not contributing anything to the fund.
I would then personally deliver additional dollars directly to a few great employees who really helped me throughout the year. It was a unique situation because in addition to my condo I had a separate office space in that building and the doormen would hold deliveries for me daily. They were frequently really large shipments. I felt like I was using way more than my “share” of their time and energy than the average resident and “tipped” them appropriately for the added service.
It was odd that some would brag about how they did not feel they should tip the staff and would not be sending in a check. They felt that it was their job and that they should not ever be tipped. While I could respect the concept it struck me as odd that they felt so strong about the subject that they would feel the need to share the opinion in front of the staff. This was a personal decision but when they bragged about it they just seemed petty.
jp3chicago: I’m just bummed that I have not thought of a similar cash cow…..yet!
How about offering to take care of the pets of people who have been raptured? This company only covers 24 states: http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/
I tip about $500 for the $1500 1-BR I rent downtown. $50 for each doorman, more for the package lady, and less for the maintenance workers. We have a fund, but I give it directly to the staff because I don’t really trust the management to distribute it properly.
If everyone gave what we gave then the doormen would clear about $20k each. Unfortunately, I doubt most people contribute even close to this even though it’s a perfectly reasonable expectation considering they only make a $25-35k base and work a lot of bad hours.
I’m horrified by the sense of entitlement in this thread (Why should I contribute – they should just pay them better!). Do you really think the base salary would be that low if they didn’t depend on a holiday bonus to supplement the income? We don’t think for two seconds about throwing around 5-figure bonuses at the office, but you’re going to complain about rewarding good service by the people who interact with you at your home on a day to day basis? Give me a break.
“Also–everyone remember that EVERY employee/service-provider’s favorite store is the BANK. Unless you are actually friends with them, give them cash.”
Cash is king. The time, effort and money you put into picking out a specific gift might not be appreciated because people have particular tastes. I’d rather get a little bit of cash.
“I usually tip the guys who get my car (we have valet) a buck.”
Wait – so every time you get your car, you have to pay a dollar?!!!! Think about it, if you take your car out 1000 times a year, that is 1000 dollars extra!!! I hated the whole valet thing at my building so much that I have been renting an assigned parking space in the building next door. I want to park my own car and feel free to come and go with whomever I want. Why should I feel obligated to tip people/services that I don’t want/need?
“Wait – so every time you get your car, you have to pay a dollar?!!!! Think about it, if you take your car out 1000 times a year, that is 1000 dollars extra!!! ”
I like how the guy who claims to the rich property baron:
a) Thinks you take your car out 3x a day when you live in a downtown hi-rise
b) Is complaining about $1,000
“We don’t think for two seconds about throwing around 5-figure bonuses at the office, but you’re going to complain about rewarding good service by the people who interact with you at your home on a day to day basis?”
uhhh – speak for yourself – who “throws around” 5 figure bonuses? Wow – I need a new job.
“b) Is complaining about $1,000”
It is not about the money – but the principle of the matter. I would gladly (and do) spend thousands of dollars directly to charities every year. I don’t mind this at all because it is me who gets to choose where to give and how much to give. No way in hell am I going to feel comfortable or happy about giving a “mandatory” or “expected” tip. No way – even if it was a couple of bucks!!!!
According to this Queens doorman, the middle class tips more generously and is friendlier than the wealthy. (No reflection on Clio.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/nyregion/16appraisal.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=rego%20park%20doorman&st=cse
i only take my car out once or twice a week. probably give them a buck 75% of the time. it’s not enough to get worked up about though I agree with your logic to some extent.
“If everyone gave what we gave then the doormen would clear about $20k each. Unfortunately, I doubt most people contribute even close to this even though it’s a perfectly reasonable expectation considering they only make a $25-35k base and work a lot of bad hours”
Jim, so you think that a doorman SHOULD make 45-55k/year? Really? Really?!!! No – YOU give us a break!!!
“According to this Queens doorman, the middle class tips more generously and is friendlier than the wealthy. (No reflection on Clio.)”
No offense taken – I definitely believe this but don’t disagree with the sentiment of the rich. It is extremely important to maintain a business relationship with your doorman/cleaning people/mailbox people/valet. I have made the mistake in the past of being too friendly with these people and have seen how they start to slack and act more and more unprofessional around me and my guests (because they think i am their friend). There is a fine line and an art to develop a cordial but not overly friendly attitude towards these people. Tipping too much leads to inappropriate and sometimes unsustainable and expectations.
“Clio,
The valets at your building have only been nice, courtesy, and prompt with me and my friends’ cars. They are young guys.”
They can relate to you – they get mad at people to whom they can’t relate. What made it worse for me is that I look like I am in my twenties so they obviously think I am some rich spoiled brat and think it is not fair that I get to live such a life – I am not kidding – I get it all the time.
i wish people would give me cash as gifts instead of the stupid useless crap that I get 99% of the time
if anyone asks me what I want for christmas i’m gonna say money and if thats an assholey thing to do, then so be it. I’m sick of getting all this junk that was manufactured in china and sold at target cluttering up my damn house when 99% of it serves no purpose
My opinion falls somewhere in the middle. Times are tough for most people all around, building workers and residents alike. I abhor the idea of being pressured into giving a big tip, especially if you get horrible service. My super in Brooklyn for example never helps with anything. If you ask him if he can do something he reminds you that he is just a part-time super. However, he and his family live in my building FULL-TIME for FREE in a tricked out 3 BR apt AND he gets a salary of about 40K!
He doesn’t do much other than take out the garbage and he doesn’t even do a great job with that and sometimes it festers in the basement for days attracting roaches. He has a full-time job as a doorman in another building at night. He sleeps all day. Cleaning is contracted out. Repairs are contracted out. He doesn’t shovel when it snows. It’s a co-op, so the residents pitch in to paint and water flowers.
If I can actually manage to get him to help me with something, I tip him per job, but I do not give him a Christmas tip.
The building where I have my rental property on the other hand is the total opposite. The employees are all wonderful there and it is extremely clean and well-run. If I tipped them one month’s assessment, that would be $300 which is a lot for me this year. It’s a 750 unit building. I was thinking of putting $100 in the pot.
I agree that cash is king and give cash for xmas gifts to cleaners etc. outside the office. In the office I find it a little awkward (maybe I shouldn’t) and give gift cards to stores I know people shop at and that generally have a broad range of stuff to buy. For friends/family, I try to figure out something they like and buy for themselves but then buy a nicer version of it (e.g., wine).
“According to this Queens doorman, the middle class tips more generously and is friendlier than the wealthy. ”
There is a reason some are middle class and some are wealthy. You ought not forget that.
I just tell them not to bet on the horse with no legs… that’s a great tip.
Clio, if it’s not too pedestrian for you, I’ll treat you to PF Chang’s in River North the next time I’m in town. It’s replaced The Olive Garden in my heart as my favorite restaurant. And we don’t have one in NYC! One more reason to love Chicago. Drop me a line at oakstbeachgrrl@yahoo.com!
Hey question, I had never thought of it before but this is the perfect place to ask…
We have a place in the city but we don’t live there other than the summer. So 2.5 or 3 months total, other than a week at Xmas too. It’s a small walk-up but we do have a guy that takes care of stuff like watering the plants, general upkeep, I think he’s the guy who picks up our trash from outside our back doors too. He is very nice and will help me with the stroller if he’s around. I see him a lot in the summer but that’s it, obviously. I wouldn’t even know how to get a tip to him, he’s just randomly around.
But I would definitely like to tip him now that I think of it. We never have before just because we never thought of it. How much? Or would a box of Belgian chocolates be good (we’re living in Europe right now)?
I have been on the public’s payroll in every adult job I have every had. I think it only fair that I return some money directly back to the people paying me.
Milkster, don’t tempt me – I might just take you up on that offer!!!
T.S. –
NO chocolate. Plus your mailing costs to the US will be astronomical even for a small package. I agree with Sonies. I’m a secretary. I get cash at Christmas and I really appreciate it. One of my bosses gave me a pair of Burberry earmuffs one year. They are gorgeous and I know they were expensive, but they are so impractical and I never wear them because I wear ski caps in the winter. So they sit unused in my closet and were a waste of her money.
The next time you see him in person at Christmas, ask when he will be around the building next and tell him you have something small for him and give him a tip.
I think it’s reasonable since he’s acting as a security guard and custodian and keeping things safe and clean for you at your property while you are away and he is giving you some peace of mind. And since it’s a small building with no staff, you probably have reasonable assessments, right?
always thought bob and dollface would be the first cc hookup
Milkster,
Be careful on your pf changs invite, bob might impersonate Clio. You know he will do just about anything for a free meal. Make sure you see the lamb first.
“I’m a secretary. I get cash at Christmas and I really appreciate it.”
I would give you a gift-wrapped red stapler for Christmas.
Bob, you are too generous!!! Actually, I would pay to see the reaction of a secretary that receives that gift!!
Clio, do you think the way you treated your building’s valet staff just might have something to do with their opinion of you?
“I would give you a gift-wrapped red stapler for Christmas.”
That’s about what I’d expect, so it would be no surprise.
“always thought bob and dollface would be the first cc hookup”
No lambo.
“No lambo.”
Honda Civic. Opal Silver Blue Metallic is no Rosso Vik, let me tell ya.
“Clio, do you think the way you treated your building’s valet staff just might have something to do with their opinion of you?”
No – I treat them the same way I treat the people with whom I work. I am certainly not going to bend over backwards to be nice to them. For God’s sake – they are workers hired to do a job. These people are NOT your friends. Why can’t people understand this??! When I used to be really friendly with them (at other buildings) I discovered that they told me all sorts of things about my neighbors. For this reason, I try to keep my interaction with these new doormen/valets REALLY brief. All of you should – again, they are not your friends and the more you talk to them, the more they know about you and the more they talk and gossip. Why not just nip it in the bud and maintain a professional cordial (but not overly friendly) attitude?
Way back when… I generally put in half the suggested amount and gave individual gifts. I hated calling it tipping. I know its semantics but I figure that my assistant gets a Christmas(year end) bonus bacause they have helped me over the year and by extension of the same logic so did people in my building and it was my opportunity to show appreciation.
For the overly entitled in this thread – it is not about what people should be paid or padding the management co’s budget (why I did not give the reccomended amt) it is a simple way of saying thanks. If they haven’t done anything for you then it’s fine don’t say thanks. If they really are that awful as a staff why not bring it up to the board or Management co rather than being passive aggressive at the holidays?
“For God’s sake – they are workers hired to do a job. These people are NOT your friends. Why can’t people understand this??!”
Because most people are stupid. I can’t tell you how many people’s careers I’ve seen self-destruct because they thought they were buddy buddy with the boss.
““According to this Queens doorman, the middle class tips more generously and is friendlier than the wealthy. ”
There is a reason some are middle class and some are wealthy. You ought not forget that.”
no the reason is they worked a shyte low paying job or a tip compensated job at one or more times in thier life. they understand what its like to have tips put food and a roof over their head.
i waited tables for many years and can say for a fact the ones who cant afford to tip over tip, and the ones who can over tip stiff you.
“i waited tables for many years and can say for a fact the ones who cant afford to tip over tip, and the ones who can over tip stiff you.”
And that’s why I’ll be a millionaire one day and the middle class tippers will be complaining about it and trying to raise my taxes. 😛
Noone ever said service industry jobs were hard. But noone is forcing anyone to work in that industry–this is America.
I tip 13-20% at a bar and 10-15% at restaurants, but that’s about it. These staff handouts sound outrageous to me.
“And that’s why I’ll be a millionaire one day and the middle class tippers will be complaining about it and trying to raise my taxes”
bob there will be no middle class by that time so your “privileged” tax will be in place by then. so i will thank you know for footing the bill 🙂
Mr. Karma workings in such blatant specific ways
“Mr. Karma workings in such blatant specific ways”
Its Mr. Karma who is going to help me hide things behind the drywall? 😀
“Jim, so you think that a doorman SHOULD make 45-55k/year? Really? Really?!!! No – YOU give us a break!!!”
Um, yea? It couldn’t be easy living on that amount in this city. Didn’t you have another thread where you claimed to have 100k in property taxes? You are such a phony.
“Um, yea? It couldn’t be easy living on that amount in this city.”
Yeah so I am curious Jim whether you believe a McDonald’s worker should be paid similarly? What about Blockbuster?
oh goodie. sounds like we get to now decide relative value & compensation for occupations. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
“I tip 13-20% at a bar and 10-15% at restaurants, but that’s about it. These staff handouts sound outrageous to me.”
How do you arrive at these particular percentages?
“McDonald’s worker should be paid similarly? What about Blockbuster?”
I bet that mcdeez worker is working hard than both us!
“they understand what its like to have tips put food and a roof over their head. ”
pretty much
unless the servers totally suck I usually give 20-25% tips because I know how much it sucks to do a good job and barely have enough to pay the bartender, busboy and foodrunner’s portions let alone your own bills
“Yeah so I am curious Jim whether you believe a McDonald’s worker should be paid similarly? What about Blockbuster?”
I don’t know what these jobs pay, but I’m going to assume it’s pretty close to the minimum wage. The minimum wage is low by historical standards (paying less, despite many efficiency gains, then what workers earned in the 60s and 70s). It also puts you below the poverty line, especially in a city like Chicago.
As taxpayers, we subsidize McDonalds to the tune of billions a year (cheap corn) and they can’t even afford to pay a living wage? Makes me sick thinking about it.
“How do you arrive at these particular percentages?”
Based on the amount of effort I perceive they put in. At a bar they typically just serve drinks and I don’t frequently require a high level of service (pour beer). At a restaurant they at least have to take down my order, drink, as well as customizations (ie: kind of salad dressing, etc). Also frequently at a restaurant they have to wear uniform whereas bars I goto they do not, so I think thats worth a little something as well to compensate them for the inconvenience of the uniform and laundering it, etc.
Bob, you only tip 10% at a restaurant?
bob you’ll save more money if you really want to be a millionaire by saving money from not eating or drinking out period than being a dickhead cheapass to hard working people
I’m generally a good tipper, but I disagree with the notion that service workers are ‘entitled’ to tips. Tips aren’t for services rendered, they are for services rendered well.
I currently rent in 1000 N LSD where the doormen are generally lousy and the maintenance staff is worthless. I will tip only the individuals who have rendered *good* service over the course of the year. Incredibly, this building has a policy of posting for all to see which units contribute to the tip fund and which do not. Since I will deliver tips personally to select individuals rather than contribute to the general fund, I will be deemed a stiff. Just another reason why this is the worst building in the Gold Coast.
Sonies: unless the servers totally suck I usually give 20-25% tips because I know how much it sucks to do a good job and barely have enough to pay the bartender, busboy and foodrunner’s portions let alone your own bills
Agree. 20-25% is standard. Even kinda bad but not terrible service gets a 10-15% tip. (FWIW, I’ve worked as both a waitress and a bartender; I’m guessing that the people in this thread pissing and moaning about having to tip have done neither.)
Jim: As taxpayers, we subsidize McDonalds to the tune of billions a year (cheap corn) and they can’t even afford to pay a living wage? Makes me sick thinking about it.
Double agree! For all the bellyaching we’ve heard about TARP and the auto bailout, you hear nary a whisper about the ridiculous farm subsidies.
Jim if you really think it is hard to live on 45-55k a year in this city you are more out of touch than clio passed out drunk in his lambo
“bob you’ll save more money if you really want to be a millionaire by saving money from not eating or drinking out period than being a dickhead cheapass to hard working people”
Not eating or drinking out affect me and my lifestyle significantly. Being a “dickhead cheapass to hard working people” just affect’s their lifestyle. See the difference?
“(FWIW, I’ve worked as both a waitress and a bartender; I’m guessing that the people in this thread pissing and moaning about having to tip have done neither.)”
Anybody can be a waitstaff or bartender–its unskilled labor. The fact that some perceive that they deserve a living and decent wage from what is essentially unskilled labor shows how out of touch you are. There are people working hard jobs in factories or driving cabs that make much less than bartenders and have much more stressful/dangerous jobs.
“Based on the amount of effort I perceive they put in. At a bar they typically just serve drinks and I don’t frequently require a high level of service (pour beer). At a restaurant they at least have to take down my order, drink, as well as customizations (ie: kind of salad dressing, etc). Also frequently at a restaurant they have to wear uniform whereas bars I goto they do not, so I think thats worth a little something as well to compensate them for the inconvenience of the uniform and laundering it, etc.”
You may have percentages flipped but that’s not really why I asked. I’m not sure how you can figure these things out in isolation from what they are being paid by the bar/restaurant as well. That’s why I hate tipping. I have no means of figuring any of this stuff out, and I don’t believe there’s much of an incremental incentive for good service.
I’m not sure why tipping persists.
“and they can’t even afford to pay a living wage”
It shouldn’t be up to companies to pay a living wage. Nor should it be up to patrons to pay a living wage or a fair wage or whatever, but it kinda is given tipping.
“I’m not sure why tipping persists. ”
So me and my buds can co-opt the bartenders and let them know if they go in on stealing from the bar owner by hooking us up with free drinks they’re going to be compensated for a large percentage of that via a big tip. Of course this is never an explicit verbal conversation but a wink and a nod.
I have waited tables. did it after quitting a job as a retail stock broker. compared to cold calling people it felt like a paid vacation. after a while it starts to drag though.
“So me and my buds can co-opt the bartenders and let them know if they go in on stealing from the bar owner by hooking us up with free drinks they’re going to be compensated for a large percentage of that via a big tip. Of course this is never an explicit verbal conversation but a wink and a nod.”
You’d have to expand on this to have a real theory. Something like how this is really in the interests of the bar owner as well, as it allows them to price discriminate between cheapskates like you and others paying full price. Throw in tax evasion and maybe there’s something there.
Doesn’t explain restaurants unless you’re getting free entrees thrown your way. I did know someone once who worked at subway who explained how there was a whole underground bartering community between low level workers at subway/starbucks/movie theaters/etc.
“Anybody can be a waitstaff or bartender–its unskilled labor. The fact that some perceive that they deserve a living and decent wage from what is essentially unskilled labor shows how out of touch you are.”
Yea, a living wage is out of touch…
Not sure why you are raging on unskilled labor. It takes all types of labor to build in this society. This city would be unlivable and unworkable in if we didn’t have thousands of unskilled laborers working for the city.
And what skill are you really providing there in your office? My skill is that I happen to be really good at math, which would be relatively worthless if I was born in say Africa. But instead, I was born in America, and now I can use that skill in a job that pays me 15x that of “unskilled labor”. So no, I don’t begrudge the McDonald’s worker who wants a living wage or the doorman who earns 50k.
“So no, I don’t begrudge the McDonald’s worker who wants a living wage or the doorman who earns 50k.”
I don’t begrudge them either. But at the same time I don’t feel the least bit guilty for not helping facilitate it.
wow!!!!!!!!!!
i lost a lot of respect for some people here. i will now be done with this thread before its all gone.
wow really?
“i lost a lot of respect for some people here. i will now be done with this thread before its all gone.”
Who did you lose respect for? Can’t be Bob, as he hasn’t said anything out of character? Me? Just to be clear, I’m all in favor of people making a living wage, I don’t think it’s useful to depend on companies to provide it, nor do I think tipping is a particularly efficient system (but given that it is in place, I do tip well).
“Who did you lose respect for?”
I had the same thought–I read everyone of the semi-regulars as playing to type.
Also, I would never suggest cash as a gift for family/friends. And if you just can’t deal with just cash for your employee/assistant/whoever, make it cash and something small and consumable (booze/coffee/food).
“Also, I would never suggest cash as a gift for family/friends.”
For kids of a certain age, cash is not bad, as long as their parents don’t mind.
I think my biggest problem with tipping is that it has become expected. I still tip better than almost anyone around (seriously, 30-40% on food/ETOH) – but I realize that the bartenders/waiters/waitresses EXPECT it. I would like it better if it was an unexpected “gift” – it would make me feel a lot better about giving it (even though I am too vain and emotionally weak not to tip big – as I typically go to the same restaurants/bars every weekend).
“For kids of a certain age, cash is not bad, as long as their parents don’t mind.”
Sure, sure. But I still wouldn’t *suggest* it.
“I typically go to the same restaurants/bars every weekend”
Not that I’d show up–while I’m certain they are nice place, prob not my kind of places–I’m *insanely* curious.
clio: I would like it better if it was an unexpected “gift” – it would make me feel a lot better about giving it
I’m not sure your feelings are relevant to the transaction.
“Not that I’d show up–while I’m certain they are nice place, prob not my kind of places–I’m *insanely* curious”
No problem – these are great places and always crowded: RL, Nomi, the bar at the Peninsula, the bar at the Four Seasons, Whiskey, Sunda, Epic, Crimson, the wit, Luxe Bar, Undergoround, Le Colonial – of course I don’t go to each one of these bars every weekend, but you will always have a great time at these places. Lots of extremely friendly people all wanting to have a good fun time.
“I’m not sure your feelings are relevant to the transaction.”
This is the thing that most people don’t understand: people’s feelings are ABSOLUTE POSITIVELY relevent and the most important factor when giving a tip. If people expecting a tip would realize this, they could really clean up – make the person feel good about giving you a tip and, believe me, the wallets will open!!! The same goes for getting people to contribute to charity – no matter what the charity is, the person’s feelings are the MOST relevent in determining how much they are going to give.
Clio @ 1:34 PM For God’s sake – they are workers hired to do a job. These people are NOT your friends.
Clio @ 6:15 PM make the person feel good about giving you a tip and, believe me, the wallets will open!!!
Service workers are not responsible for making you feel good about yourself. Sorry.
This tipping is getting ridiculous. My daughter is a lawyer and makes about $900 take home a week. That is a lot of money to tip the building staff. We have a caregiver for my husband he works 7 days a week and we pay him $1200 and give him a weeks tip at Xmas. He is late every day and a total jerk. He was supposed to work 3 hours a day and works about half of that and wants a raise. He makes more than my daughter working a 40- 45 hour work week. Also, I am tired of tipping my hairdresser. I pay her $225 for color and cut and then tip her 20%. It is ridiculous. I think $225 should cover it all. I don’t mind tipping at restaurants because i know they do not get much pay and depend on tips but at these expensive restaurants it gets ridiculous. The waiters make more than the chef.
#”We have a caregiver for my husband he works 7 days a week and we pay him $1200 and give him a weeks tip at Xmas. He is late every day and a total jerk. He was supposed to work 3 hours a day and works about half of that and wants a raise. He makes more than my daughter working a 40- 45 hour work week. ”
hire your daughter to be the caregiver, then? She makes more, dad gets someone who actually gives a ratsass.
tipping and gifting at the holidays is, I think, best done on an individual basis. Once it starts to feel like an obligation, it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
“hire your daughter to be the caregiver, then? She makes more, dad gets someone who actually gives a ratsass.”
Ever been a caregiver? Hardest job in the world- especially for a family member. In my experience, it’s better if it isn’t a family member (better for everyone involved.)
The ignorance on this thread is astounding!
Of course I did expect Bob’s nonsensical comments:
“Anybody can be a waitstaff or bartender–its unskilled labor”
Have you EVER dined at a high end Restaurant or had a Cocktail at one of the top lounges in the city? Thought not as if you had you would understand the amount of skill required to perform these jobs correctly takes years to perfect.
Being able to enjoy a comfortable living performing these difficult jobs takes far more skill than simply taking an order and delivering food…organization, working with others, being an entertainer/psychiatrist/friend, having enough knowledge about a wide array of topics and current happenings to carry on an intelligent conversation, communication skills, etc. It only shows how out of touch YOU are to make such an assinine comment.
Seriously, take some of the $$$ cash you are saving by living in your cheap ass studio and treat yourself to a real night out at a few of the high dollar places…you’d be surprised at the intelligence (most high end servers/’tenders are college educated), skill set and personalities of those serving you.
Another peek of Bob’s intelligence:
“So me and my buds can co-opt the bartenders and let them know if they go in on stealing from the bar owner by hooking us up with free drinks they’re going to be compensated for a large percentage of that via a big tip”
FWIW, most, if not all bars/restaurants/lounges allow…actually encourage bartenders to give ‘buy backs’ (free stolen drinks) to their regulars to encourage those receiving the ‘stolen’ liquor to return (and bring friends who hopefully are more savvy than your cheap ass). This method of ‘advertising’ is far more effective than conventional print advertising and does work to build business. Hopefully you aren’t one of those cheapasses who take advantage of this perk and ‘forget’ to tip well and bring friends…if you have any!
“Seriously, take some of the $$$ cash you are saving by living in your cheap ass studio and treat yourself to a real night out at a few of the high dollar places…”
Nopes. Although I do have some gift certs to downtown nice places, might take advantage of those if I can’t sell them for a reasonable cash amount.
“Hopefully you aren’t one of those cheapasses who take advantage of this perk and ‘forget’ to tip well and bring friends”
As part of the understanding I do tip in these instances as the bartender is helping me get free drinks from the bar. For that arrangement to last obviously us customers need to uphold our end of the bargain.
Not buying into your whole “they work at a swanky place it must be hard” argument. Bartenders at Trump’s lounge, for instance, have the same job as the neighborhood dive, albeit with a uniform.
clio,
Now don’t think I am picking on you but your comments are pretty ridiculous as well. You say you patronize Chicago’s top restaurants and bars and claim to tip 30-40% (an amount unheard of even to those who have been in the biz for their entire lives) when a great tip is 20-25% yet you are vehemently opposed to tipping a valet to park one of your 7 vehicles on which you have paid over a million dollars on? That one I have a hard time believing!
Re CCs: “I only recently discovered that people actually pay the minimum on what they have charged!! Seriously? All the financial experts giving advice on CC bills and you only recently discovered that most ppl only pay the minimum monthly bill? REALLY?
“I can’t stand the valets in my building. They are rude and stupid and think that I don’t know they make fun of me behind my back.”…Just behind your back? Not to your face? LOL
“Wait – so every time you get your car, you have to pay a dollar?!!!! Think about it, if you take your car out 1000 times a year, that is 1000 dollars extra!!! I hated the whole valet thing at my building so much that I have been renting an assigned parking space in the building next door.
Really? and what does it cost to rent the assigned space in the building next door?I mean if you live in the building I think you live in all the surrounding buildings would charge the same amount you would be paying in your condo…right? So using your method LOL you are actually paying more for the right to come and go in one of your 7 cars than you do if you were to pay $1 each time you had the valet bring your car for you? Really…keep track of your comments because one day you say something and the next you say something entirely opposite.
More gems:
“I would gladly (and do) spend thousands of dollars directly to charities every year. I don’t mind this at all because it is me who gets to choose where to give and how much to give.” LOL a real philanthropist, huh? People who do ‘spend thousands directly to charities every year’ LOL again…possibly the hardest LOL yet… don’t ever mention it in public.
OK, I am done giving you grief for today!!!!!! Good day Mr Gates!!!!!!
Hey WL, given your expertise, if you have time to respond, I’d really appreciate your views on I should ask a developer that’s doing a gut rehab (on a 2 flat)? What are things a regular buyer would not think about asking or finding out that you think are important from your perspective? Many thanks if you can respond.
“Bartenders at Trump’s lounge, for instance, have the same job as the neighborhood dive, albeit with a uniform.”
Aboslutely not. Barkeep’s R&Rs completely vary from bar to bar aside from just pouring drinks. The relationship they establish with the customer – for a second or 8 hours – may result in whether that said customer returns and what he/she says to other customers about that bar.
“they work at a swanky place it must be hard”
Actually the swanky places are some of the easiest places to work. The tough ones are slower, luxurious bars without the bump-bump music, restaurants and locals, where the bartender must establish a relationship with the customer and “serve” the cusomter rather than just “serving drinks.”
Westloop,
I really don’t understand your criticism. Everything I said was true and not contradictory.
1. True, I have many cars, but I don’t drive them all downtown (I only drive one downtown and then drive back home to the suburbs) – why would I drive or keep 7 cars downtown when I live in the suburbs 90% of the time?!!
2. I actually DO tip 30-40% because I frequent these establishments often and have gotten to know the staff. In return, I always get AWESOME service with a smile. They bend over backwards which is priceless!!!
3. In terms of the valets and rude doorpeople staff – I don’t feel any desire to tip them. I seriously feel like it is extortion. If they did their job with a smile and did extra things for me, I would gladly tip them – but I find the staff in my building to be underhanded and manipulative. I feel no need to reward these people.
4. In terms of giving to charity – my charitable contributions ARE in the 5 figures annually- I brought that up because I wanted people to know that you can be generous without tipping each and every person with whom you interact.
This tipping has really gotten out of control!!!!!
PS – welcome back – we missed you.
“Not buying into your whole “they work at a swanky place it must be hard” argument. Bartenders at Trump’s lounge, for instance, have the same job as the neighborhood dive, albeit with a uniform.”
Not at all. The ‘tenders you know only have to be up to date on the game de jour’s score. Those at places like 16 @ Trump need to be aware of stock market, the latest private jet rates, the “it” place to vacation, etc. It is a WHOLE different world between the two places and your fav dive tender would be lost in the ‘other world’.
Outside of the RE industry, I would have to say my closest friends are all employed in NYC’s F&B Industry…most in high end places. Get more than one server and/or tender in one room and the conversation soon turns to shop talk. The stories they tell give me a real and accurate insight into the world of the uber wealthy….and their world is not a pretty place.
So short post long….there is a HUGE difference between the two groups of workers.
But glad to hear you do tip for your free drinks!
DZ,
Of great importance to me when doing rehabs is the structural integrity of the building and whether the plans for it will tie in with what is already there. Will the extras you plan on installing pose too much of a weight load on the building, esp if it is a vintage bldg?
On the rehabs we do, I always insist on a thorough inspection of the concrete foundation and the grounds surrounding it. We also inspect each and every support beam and interior wall frames and studs. Even if they seem to be secure and in good shape, I always insist on beefing up the main support beams or replacing them all together. Since we usually move/remove and replace walls, most of these are new.
Once the ‘bones’ are reinforced and the rest of the foundation is without flaws and is secure and solid, I move onto the plumbing and electrical systems. Regardless of the age of the building, thanks to shady contractors and tightwad previous owners, the quality of the materials/craftsmanship levels might not be up to par and will probably need to be replaced…better to do so now before adding your cosmetic improvements. Building codes have changed in recent years and have had great demands/restrictions placed on them and also with the arrival of so many new products, replacing these systems is essential for the life of the building.
Got these things in good shape? Move onto your drywall/plaster and invest in the highest quality materials you can. I always replace all interior dry wall AFTER we determine the wall studs are solid. Also, check and double check the sub flooring to insure it is in prime condition. Regardless of the finish you place on top of it if the sub is not perfection you will have problems later down the road.
So I guess the answer to your ? is to work from the inside out to insure the foundation and structure is solid. If it is not it will be a huge cost later.
A good source of information would be to do a permit search to see what work and inspections had been performed. A few locales (not sure if Chicago does this) have this info catalogued and will allow it to be released. Also just as Sabrina does, find the sales history to see how many owners the place had in the past. A lot of owners usually = a lot of problems with the building.
Lastly, concentrate on the cosmetic finishes as it is easy to spot cheap low grade finishes from the more durable high end stuff. Again though, it does no good to have all the fancy finishes and touches if the foundation and supports are in poor shape.
Sorry for such a basic answer to your question, but I am on a time crunch today and thought I would drop in for a quick read. Ask more ? if needed and I will answer as time permits. Good Luck!!
“Hey WL, given your expertise, if you have time to respond, I’d really appreciate your views on I should ask a developer that’s doing a gut rehab (on a 2 flat)? What are things a regular buyer would not think about asking or finding out that you think are important from your perspective?
“Sorry for such a basic answer to your question, but I am on a time crunch today and thought I would drop in for a quick read.”
Uhhh if that’s your “basic answer” , I would hate to see what your detailed explanations are!!!!
clio,
TY for the welcome…been away for too long!
I just have to ask, if service people in a building as costly as yours are rude to you, do you deserve it? Are you rude or obnoxious to them? People in these types of jobs know how much of their income depends on the service they provide. Even though they are the receivers of so many uncalled for comments and treatment, the real professionals will not crack under the pressure and will only respond with more kindness while performing. Only when pushed too far will they respond with rudeness…so what are you doing to them to get this sort of response?
I have lived in a number of full service, amenity rich buildings in a number of major cities and can honestly say I have had nothing but good service and positive attitudes from the employees. I treat all people I come in contact with as my equals and regardless of the difference in our net worth, they are the same as I am….humans deserving of respect and fair treatment.
Re: the tipping situation…it falls squarely on the owners of the businesses employing the system. In the search for profitability, they place the job of compensation in the hands of those receiving the service. Is it right? Maybe not, but without this system, most of us would not be able to afford to be as pampered as we are.
If you receive good service and people go out of their way to make your life more convenient, then yes, tip the hell out of them!
“Uhhh if that’s your “basic answer” , I would hate to see what your detailed explanations are!!!!”
You have been here long enough to have witnessed my endless rambling while answering basic questions. Should not be a surprise to you nor should you question the content of my response as you are in the same business as I am.
westloop – I’m just kidding around with you. Your input is always apprciated. We really did miss you.
Thanks, WL, good to have you around again. I’m about to have the first substantive conversation with developer sometime after thanksgiving. Will post if I have further q’s.
“But glad to hear you do tip for your free drinks!”
Its not so much Bob being generous but moreso a cost of doing business. If they don’t get a substantial cut of the value of the free drinks they’re not likely to do it again.
“Jim, so you think that a doorman SHOULD make 45-55k/year? Really? Really?!!! No – YOU give us a break!!!”
Um, yea? It couldn’t be easy living on that amount in this city…”
Wow, really? I finished my PhD last year and am in my first year of postdoc (so that was 4 year of undergrad + 5 year of grad school for me). I’m getting paid 48K. Jim, what building do you live in? I’m seriously considering switching careers 🙂