Renovated 3-Bedroom Victorian Reduces $40,000: 2633 N. Central Park in Logan Square
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom Victorian at 2633 N. Central Park in Logan Square in July 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
This is one of the many properties that had been bank owned, was rehabbed and has now come back on the market.
Many of you thought this was way overpriced compared to other sold comps in the neighborhood (except for the “new” and bullish homedelete who thought it would sell close to ask.)
Originally listed for $489,000 it has since been reduced $40,000.
If you recall, originally the house was bank owned and the listing called it “not habitable.”
The listing said it needed “to be rehabbed and brought back to life.”
It had some of its vintage features including trim, original hardwood floors and built-ins.
But as you can see from the pictures in the bank owned listing- it needed a lot of work. See those pictures here.
The house sold in February 2011.
It came back on the market in June totally rehabbed and now listed as a “once in a lifetime”.
The house was built in 1878 and is on a rare double lot of 50×125.
In addition to the original pine hardwood floors, it has leaded glass windows, oak moldings and an antique fireplace.
The house has a new roof, siding, heat, a/c, electric, plumbing and garage.
The kitchen has white cabinets, stainless steel appliances and what looks like butcher block counter tops (which we rarely see.)
The basement is still unfurnished.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second floor and there is a 13×14 family room on the main level.
Will this be the first rehab we’ve chattered about to undergo a big price reduction in order to sell?
David Bishaf at David Bishaf Real Estate Broker still has the listing. See the current pictures here.
2633 N. Central Park Avenue: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2200 square feet, 2 car garage
- There is no prior sales price
- Originally listed in November 2010 for $99,000
- Bank owned in December 2010
- Sold in February 2011 for $162,500
- Originally listed in June 2011 for $489,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $449,000
- Taxes of $4692
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 12×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 14×8 (second floor)
- Family room: 13×14 (main level)
My goodness that siding killed that beautiful victorian.
Today is the day of “ugly a** exteriors” ; )
That’s a big mark-up.
Couldn’t they have done something to the outside, not just the inside? The exterior reminds me of that house behind the left field bleachers at Wrigley. The one that used to have the beer ad painted on the roof.
Wait – now I see they did do something to the exterior. Not the right thing, but something.
these rehabbers are fucking parasites we’re four years deep into this depression and these asshats still think the sea hasn’t changed. go be a telemarketer already or a bartender
That siding is way better than that peel n’ stick roofing crap that was on it before.
This is what will happen to McMansions in future.
from my upbringing in suburban America nothing screams luxury half million dollar homes like aluminium siding…not.
The siding is hard to take but the location is way too far west in Logan for a house at this price point.
I wonder if you could sell it for parts and make money. I was going through some antique stores in nyc last weekend and some of those door knobs and things go for hundreds!! Guessing this place doesn’t have that many doorknobs….ah well. Also, that bright blue color they chose is terrible.
i’ve notice that anecdotally, at least, rehabber sales seem to be slowing down. Most of them will be washed out some day too.
I don’t seem to be able to find a permit for the work. Must be a mistake. Yeah, that’s it.
http://webapps.cityofchicago.org/buildingpermit/search/initializeapplication.htm
hd, the washout is just a matter of time. It has already happened in several formerly hot rehab hoods on the south side. Everyone is chasing fewer and fewer qualified end users, just like in the condo bust.
So would THIS house sell at this price in the green zone with all its flaws?
There are no options other than siding such as this without loosing more money. Quality cedar siding would be 1/5 the value of this home before painting/staining. And many 500,000.00 homes in suburban America have aluminium siding because of the cost ofalternatives as well as unkeep preference.
“So would THIS house sell at this price in the green zone with all its flaws?”
It’s on a double lot, Icarus. In most of the GZ, it would sell for more than the current ask with the un-reno’d house. Were it next door to me, I’d buy it in a heartbeat for $450k, rent it our for a while, and then knock the sucker down the moment I could afford to (actually, prolly dismantle it a bit at a time, and throw most of it out in the regular trash). And I’d do it even if the usable side yard were on the wrong side, compared to my house.
ed when I grew up, a time not too long ago, aluminum siding was reserved for the lower middle class folks homes. like 175k & under for home values. 500k homes were posh and huge and never in a million years would have aluminum siding. its a complete mismatch at this pricepoint.
doesn’t mean it will shake out like that anon–im betting most of your neighbors aren’t as well capitalized so the odds favor a random home on a lot for sale will be next to one of them. and this is how valuation cracks in an area start to form..
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5015-W-Balmoral-Ave-60630/home/13499327
More aluminum siding nastiness. I’d almost prefer the asphalt roll. It wrecks the house and it is costly to undo. the lack of a front porch sucks too otherwise this could be a cool four-square.
Lack of a front porch on the subject house sucks too. It doesn’t look right.
“Lack of a front porch on the subject house sucks too. It doesn’t look right.”
Front looks like it’s the side. Just terrible.
Front door is too low for a real front porch too. FAIL.
“most of your neighbors aren’t as well capitalized so the odds favor a random home on a lot for sale will be next to one of them”
Huh? The distribution of wealth among my neighbors affects the chance that a cheapish house will come for sale next door to me? Doesn’t it depend solely on whether or not one of my two neighbors have a ragtag house?
HD. Scary that i just came across the balmoral 4square today. It looks like you could put in a real front porch. But the price is too high for me with the work needed
It’s vinyl, folks.
Do people really still put up new aluminum siding?
U could enhance the curb appeal of this place so much – just bring it to a design school/architecture school and have the teacher assign it as a project. Some brightnstudent will figure out a great way to add a porch and some different exterior material to make this place look nice. I’m sure u could do it for less than 20 thousand – but it would more than pay for itself in the end
vinyl, aluminum, it all looks the same, fucking disgusting.
“add a porch and some different exterior material”
“I’m sure u could do it for less than 20 thousand”
So, are you offering your contractor to build covered porches, in the city, for $20,000? INcluding tearout of existing, paint, etc.?
I’ll even let slide the concept of re-doing the exterior on that budget–I’ll assume that the iPad auto-un-corrected something there.
We had crappy vinyl siding on our house. We stipped it off and replaced it with high-quality stucco. It made a huge difference, though of course it was expensive (this was several years ago and I can’t remember the cost).
“vinyl, aluminum, it all looks the same, fucking disgusting.”
Aluminum looks worse, imo, espeically after a few years.
Actually a re do of the exterior should not be more than 50-75k but would add at least that much to the price. Buy this place for 350k, redo the exterior and put it back on for 499k. I think u would be surprised.
“Actually a re do of the exterior should not be more than 50-75k but would add at least that much to the price”
That’s more like it. Still low, for a really nice looking job, but at least non-absurd, and likely as much as one could justify spending on the exterior, in any circumstance. Still prolly end up a bit too nice for the block.
And, no, I most certinaly would *not* be surprised at how much this could be improved by a decent redo of the exterior. But the suggestion that the siding could be redone AND a porch built from scratch (even entirely with treated pine, instead of something nice) for **”only”** $20,000 is beyond ridiculous.
“We had crappy vinyl siding on our house. We stipped it off and replaced it with high-quality stucco. It made a huge difference, though of course it was expensive (this was several years ago and I can’t remember the cost).”
Bet you didn’t get stucco AND a from scratch porch, with roof, for $20,000.
“The distribution of wealth among my neighbors affects the chance that a cheapish house will come for sale next door to me? Doesn’t it depend solely on whether or not one of my two neighbors have a ragtag house?”
No but rather the distribution of wealth among your neighbors affects whether they can do something similar and pay a bit for it. And given a random property popping up like you described chances are it will pop up near one of your neighbors.
I think Bob just wants to tell you that the crapshack of your dreams, will probably become available next to another slightly less crappy shack on your street, thus they will not be able to afford said crapshack. Thereby, said craphack will sit available like a blight upon your street, until it is shortly thereafter taken over by squatters and crack dealers with their toothless crack whores… all resulting in valuation cracks in your area beginning to form.
If this place was in LP or LV, it would have been renovated ages ago, and maybe have more original features. But then again, by the late 90’s the whole lot would have been torn down for two “LV McCondo” buildings.
The #1 ugly thing is the turret having siding, looks tacky and cheap.
Bob, curious. Say there are ten houses on his street, all are crapshacks but his. Somewhere on that street you know for certain that one of those crapshacks are going to become available.
I offer you a bet.
You can take anon or randomly pick from a hat 1 of the other 9 neighbors. If the crapshack becomes available next to either anon or the random pick, that one wins the bet, otherwise no win or loss.
From what you are saying, you pick the random?
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/2630-N-Drake-CHICAGO-IL-60647-BMBQDZGMASSEE.html
This Victorian a 1/2 mile away, is a much better renovation, and sold for $455K.
Oh, we probably paid a good deal for the stucco. We were doing a $200,000 renovation project and that was one of the things I lost track of (I do remember $12,000 for a brick driveway). We didn’t have a porch put on; just a portico.
Ech, what an ugly dump.
“I think Bob just wants to tell you that the crapshack of your dreams, will probably become available next to another slightly less crappy shack on your street, thus they will not be able to afford said crapshack.”
Of course, a fenced play yard, with a garage on it (so I can tear mine down) even 6 or 7 houses away is worth quite a bit to me, too. I’m pretty sure I could get three or four neighbors to chip in, too, if it were to be just a play yard/land bank, esp at the per lot price of this place (~$200k).
And Bob, Ze doesnt know exactly where I live, but trust me when I say he’s offering you a suckers bet–2 of the 4 crappiest houses on my block are my two neighbors, the third is two dors down and the 4th is directly across the street. I would be thrilled to buy any of them, tomorrow, for $250k.
2630-N-Drake: I love that house, but it scares the living daylights out of me when I look at a beautiful home and I see a kids bed, or little kids toys, because those are both features in my apartment. The only way it doesn’t freak me out is if there are bunk beds or double twins because that means they just want more room. This situation is, if i were a betting man, THE SCHOOL FRACKING SUCKS AND WE CAN’T AFFORD THE PROPERTY TAXES, AND THE CAR PAYMENT, AND THE MORTGAGE PAYMENT, AND DAYCARE FOR THE YOUNGER ONE, AND PRIVATE ELEMENTARY FOR THE OLDER ONE, AND THE STUDENT LOANS, AND WE CAN’T LET OUR CHILD RUN AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
But in July YET another buyer with at least one child purchased the home. They’ll learn. Here’s a story about the buyer, I won’t say which one the buyer is but take a guess. Have to love Logan to raise a kid there with a public school like this:
~As of 2009-2010, there were 1122 students enrolled at MONROE. 97.4% were low income Students. 10.8% were Special Education Students. 36.3% were Limited English Learners~
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-22/news/ct-x-0622-trice–one-car-20110622_1_car-jill-bishop-public-transportation
Actually, I got the above confused. The SELLER had a kid and is mentioned in the article above. I have no ideas if the buyers have children.
Nice Double Lot
Crappy Kitchen. WTF
The problem with this place on the outside is the fact the windows on the front of the house are asymmetrical. They should have fixed the windows and while they were at it they should have put in a small front porch to give some depth to the front of the house. At the least it is not hard to put a small awning over the front door.
The real problem with this place in general is the layout and finishes which suck redonkulous donkey balls. The sellers are asking way, way, way too much. Why not ask for $100,000 less rather than waste everyone’s time listing this at the present price.
HD, you have some imagination. Maybe they are moving to another city? Maybe they are getting divorce? Maybe they are moving to an even larger place? You should curb that imagination of yours or steer it towards positive thoughts.
I don’t see much wrong with the choice of siding on this place esp when you look at the surrounding homes. Does it really make that much of a difference when all your neighbors’ homes look so dumpy? When compared to them, the rehab does stand out and adds some interest to what must have been a real pit of a crack house. The before pics are horrible and scary!! I would not have been interested in it just by driving past.
You have to consider all of the work that went into the place…new roof (not cheap) new kitchen, floors, paint, etc. I think one in that income bracket, who liked the area (as rough as it seems) would be getting a pretty decent place.
While not a huge fan of vinyl siding, it does make sense to use it on a place like this where it actually did improve the appearance.
While also not that important, a small porch or awning type covering would def improve the exterior and it would not be cost prohibitive.
“It’s vinyl, folks.”
It took this long into the thread before someone correctly stated which type of siding was being used? You were all bitching up such a storm without being correct?? LOL too funny.
“Do people really still put up new aluminum siding?”
On argricultural buildings yes…in an urban hood, no.
“I’m pretty sure I could get three or four neighbors to chip in, too”
City wouldn’t approve a residential garage on your street with that kind of density. Yeah you could do it under the table, but not long enough to pay off the loan for the place*
*unless your connected
“not long enough to pay off the loan for the place*
Huh?
And yeah, 6 lots might be too far away, but accessory garages are okay (w/o checking) within 100′, so 4 lots away would work.
“Ze doesnt know exactly where I live, but trust me when I say he’s offering you a suckers bet”
I realize now that Bob was only at a 4.3 on his scale of wishing people suckiness in their life. So basically interpreting it correctly, I would have realized he was wishing you a nice weekend.
Otherwise he would apparently be insisting on taking the wrong side of a bet.
“I think Bob just wants to tell you that the crapshack of your dreams, will probably become available next to another slightly less crappy shack on your street, thus they will not be able to afford said crapshack.”
Or, worse, I would buy it. If Bob can find me an anon-comparable double lot for $450K (which among other things means not west of western), I would buy it the next day, and pay Bob $50K for his troubles.
HD- I don’t think people really think about the school thing until it’s too late. They haven’t had a child yet (or that child is just a few months old) and they think, “I can deal with the school situation- we’ll just do private.”
But then they have the cost of private school and then they have the second child and it’s just not workable.
Heck, in that article you link to, one couple lives in Bronzeville and carpools their kids to the North Side every day for their magnet school! Insane. (obviously- one parent does NOT work if you’re doing this- in my opinion.) And then you have to go up there to pick them up at the end of the day as well.
It’s so exhausting.
It makes the suburbs seem SO much more attractive. You move there and you don’t have to worry until you start thinking about colleges.
Icarus: It’s called the cribchatter effect. Every house I post a link to (except for one) goes under contract within a few days. The Balmoral foursquare has been sitting for a month and a half and within 24 hours of being posted on cribchatter it goes under contract. Amazing if you ask me. And again, the house is listed at $299,999, my opinion is that it’s worth in the low $200’s given how ugly and how much work is needed (But it is a double lot) and due to the lack of decent inventory available, it will still sell 10 or 15% above what I would consider a reasonable valuation given the changes I would need to make to the house. Anyway, not that I am interested in that home (too small, too much to handle for me) it’s frustrating to see it go under contract at these listing prices that are a direct result of the low low inventory (yet there are so many loan mods, shadow inventory, homes in foreclosure, etc).
“#icarus on August 26th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
HD. Scary that i just came across the balmoral 4square today. It looks like you could put in a real front porch. But the price is too high for me with the work needed”
Who wants to be the a poor in Hinsdale?
Picture 15 is pretty awesome!
http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/68/bigphoto/646/07842646_14_1.jpg
Sabrina I have a friend with 2 kids who bought a $750k SFH in 09, without paying any attention to schools. Cut to today and she’s trying to figure out kindergarten for next year and has no clue what she’s going to do because the house costs more to maintain than she thought and now she can’t afford private school.
Bob – It’s not a mistake, the subdivision has its own private lake. Probably one of the best kept secrets in hinsdale.
“Sabrina I have a friend with 2 kids who bought a $750k SFH in 09, without paying any attention to schools. Cut to today and she’s trying to figure out kindergarten for next year and has no clue what she’s going to do because the house costs more to maintain than she thought and now she can’t afford private school.”
Your friend is an idiot and this example proves that even people with a lot of money can make really boneheaded financial decisions. Also don’t look for a lot of sympathy from us cribchatterers at that pricepoint.
“Makes so much more sense than the subject property (if you think about schools, value, etc.)”
I doubt someone who is looking in Logan Square would EVER want to live in Hinsdale.
“Sabrina I have a friend with 2 kids who bought a $750k SFH in 09, without paying any attention to schools.”
Jennifer, you’re friend is NOT an idiot (as Bob says.) I just see this happen all the time. People really don’t think about it in Generation X and Y. They were conditioned during the boom years that if they wanted to change neighborhoods- they could. So they would just move to an area with better schools. Yes- even someone who bought 2 years still thinks they can sell etc.
It has yet to really sink in- that if you are married and have no kids and are buying a property- you had better be prepared to raise the kids there for many, many years. So that means investigating the schools BEFORE you buy now. And to really think about what it costs for private (which everyone seems to think isn’t so expensive- but is basically like buying a new car (or semi-new) every year.)
And per HD’s comment- I had friends choose NOT to live in Hinsdale for the very reason he said. They could afford the smaller starter homes there- but who wants neighbors who make so much more money than you? The “competition” is bad enough in the suburbs. They moved to LaGrange instead and are very happy. Schools are solid there too.
“It’s called the cribchatter effect. Every house I post a link to (except for one) goes under contract within a few days.”
ha! ha!
Thousands of people read this site every day. Many don’t really know what’s out there (surprisingly.) So when you post a link- you’d be surprised how many people check it out and how many people are suddenly interested in it (even if it’s been on the market for months.)
I also do think it’s a result of the low inventory. If you’re looking to buy right now- there really isn’t much out there (trust me- as I have problems finding interesting properties for this site- and that has only ever happened to me in the dead of winter sometimes.) But it has been really bad inventory all summer long. I wouldn’t want to be looking right now. There really isn’t anything out there.
Her friend is an idiot. If she really wanted to own she could have easily bought at a lower pricepoint and still sell OR have enough money for private school tuition.
Noone put a gun to her head and made her commit three quarters of a million dollars towards real estate a full two years after countrywide blew up and a year after Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and the entire financial system almost collapsed.
Stupid is as stupid does. No more bailouts for these idiots.
They’re not trying to sell, they’re staying put. And their kid is going to a crappy school if they don’t hit the selective/magnet lottery. They have equity (large DP) and could sell but don’t want to. It just baffles me that so many parents are still ignoring such a massive factor when looking at buying a home. School options were the only reason we didn’t move back to the city this summer.
The one silver lining in this housing bust is it could inadvertently work to massively improve Chicago’s neighborhood public schools.
I agree, I’ve been saying the same thing. It just won’t be in time for my oldest.
The Chicago neighborhood public schools will NEVER change and will NEVER be as good as most suburban schools – period. Stop fooling yourself that this will happen – it won’t. This has been the history of chicago = and this is why people move to the suburbs. This is nothing new and nothing is going to change.
Keep dreaming idealistic yuppies. Get real, do what’s best for your family and not what ‘party friends’ think.
post-magnet lottery freakout period I’m told many of the desirable public schools actually have space – if you have the time and inclination to follow up and contact them.
it’s the urban episode of the Darwin awards – people that want to survive in the city and are willing to put in the effort will do great.
“It has yet to really sink in- that if you are married and have no kids and are buying a property- you had better be prepared to raise the kids there for many, many years. So that means investigating the schools BEFORE you buy now. And to really think about what it costs for private (which everyone seems to think isn’t so expensive- but is basically like buying a new car (or semi-new) every year.)”
I understand the desire of parents to send their kids to good middle and high schools as they are afraid of poor quality of classes and negative effects of peer group, but kindergarten? I am with groove on this one “it is your kid after all”. If you were not that bright there is a chance your kid won’t win the Nobel prize based on going to a good kindergarten.
“Sabrina I have a friend with 2 kids who bought a $750k SFH in 09, without paying any attention to schools. Cut to today and she’s trying to figure out kindergarten for next year and has no clue what she’s going to do because the house costs more to maintain than she thought and now she can’t afford private school.
“
miumiu, good habits start young. With each year of development, it gets harder and harder to “catch up”.
“it’s the urban episode of the Darwin awards – people that want to survive in the city and are willing to put in the effort will do great.”
Sabrina already said most consider shuttling their youngins to and fro to a school far away too much effort. Afterall ma and pa both have to work high pressure, high stress, high hours jobs to afford that 500k+ parcel of RE.
Ahh the American dream…or so they have fooled themselves into believing. If I were in senior management I’d consider them the perfect employees: today’s version of indentured servitude. Makes it great when you have a bad day/quarter and know you can piss on them (metaphorically) without worrying about them hightailing it outta there.
“The Chicago neighborhood public schools will NEVER change and will NEVER be as good as most suburban schools – period.”
Sounds like you are anchored to your life experiences. You sound a bit like many of my relatives on the BosWash corridor intending to “rough it out” during the storm. They have no freaking idea what a hurricane is because they’ve never experienced one nor know anyone who has. I do–the people I know who have lived through a bad hurricane would never consider going through it voluntarily again.
The great lakes are less than 15,000 years old, to give you some perspective. I don’t hold out a lot of hope for short term lasting changes in CPS soon but for you to emphatically state “NEVER” shows how anchored you are to your worldview. Which isn’t based on data at all but your anecdotal beliefs.
NEVER implies 100%. With a one party political monopoly I instead put the odds closer to upper 90s.
bob… Since the NE technically includes SE Florida. Of course we know Hurricanes. And in DC, I was on generator power for almost a week, when Isabel tore the place to shreds in 03 or 04.
But yes, full blown cane, get the hell out. Much better to just watch from weather underground.com
Well what they fail to realize is cat1 in FL is not nearly as big of a deal away from the coasts as in FL they have ones come through from time to time to knock down all the weak trees. Cat1 on Northeastern seaboard = many more and bigger trees to fall.
Looks like NYC dodged the bullet though so glad my limit sells weren’t filled on Friday we should get a pop tomorrow. 😀
“It’s called the cribchatter effect. Every house I post a link to (except for one) goes under contract within a few days.”
could you please post a link to my place 😀
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-26/opinion/carville.hurricane.irene_1_hurricane-force-winds-category-tree-inventory?_s=PM:OPINION
Bob, what you fail to understand are my peoples. My mom called me from Boca to warn me about the hurricane… I’m like.. ‘mom, what the hell is wrong with you, i’m 6,000 miles away’…. Mom replies ‘what, a mother can’t worry!’
They knew in NY/NJ!
Cue the articles about the coming end of the higher limits on the FHA loans (mainly from both coasts.) The HORROR of it all. They actually have to come up with more than 3.5% down on a $700,000 house. How will they EVER be able to do so?
Ha! ha!
They won’t. That’s why so many consider it “unfair.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/realestate/new-mortgage-limit-may-set-buyers-back.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hpw
You can see how the continued easy availability of credit continues to prop up the high, unrealistic prices.
Sabrina,
This is going to have an “opposite effect” in about 5-10 years. Basically, high end properties and exclusive suburbs/areas/buildings are going to become unaffordable/unattainable. This will make them even more coveted than before. People wanting and unable to attain these houses/areas will make these properties even more “in demand” and keep prices high.
It happens with everything. Bentley, lamborghini, ferrari don’t have to lower their prices (sorry miumiu, I should have said, Jimmy choo, Christian Louboutin don’t have to lower the prices on their shoes).
Believe it or not, prices in the exclusive suburbs/areas of chicago DIDN’T see the huge increases during the boom – Why? because builders started building expensive mansions all over. Now that that has stopped and now that only the exclusive areas have retained their values (and people understand not to buy expensive houses in these areas) people are going to start coming back to Lincoln park, gold coast, winnetka, hinsdale, etc.
Wow- Clio- where do I begin?
If someone is buying a $500,000 condo in Southport- they will now need even MORE money than before (and better credit)- which means that there will be even fewer buyers. So prices will have to come down to find buyers.
Sure- someone buying a $2 million house in Hinsdale wasn’t buying FHA anyway. So they’re not even in the equation.
But what percentage of ALL loans right now are FHA? I don’t remember the recent stat- but I thought it was something like 30% to 35%. That’s about to change in the “higher priced” areas.
Sorry Sabrina, I’m not being very clear in what I am trying to say.
In the past, (pre-90s) there were only a few exclusive areas in the chicago area (ie gold coast, east lincoln park, winnetka, kenilworth, hinsdale, etc.). All of the other areas were “affordable” (ie you could buy a 300k house – in today’s dollars – in many areas of chicago such as lakeview, west lincoln park as well as many suburbs such as elmhurst, naperville, etc.). During the boom, however, these more affordable areas became ridiculously unaffordable with million plus dollar mansions and condos rising everywhere – during that same time, the tried-and-true areas only experienced modest gains (their buyer pool was diluted).
Now, however, these previously affordable areas are hurting and falling back to their affordable status – leaving ONLY the “tried-and-true” areas for expensive houses. In other words, the supply of mansions and expensive condos will be restricted to these nicer areas which will NOT ONLY keep their prices propped up but will also lead to their significant relative increase in price (because the supply of expensive housing and nice areas has been lowered). It has been shown to be one of the unexpected consequences of a housing (or other product) bust.
‘Believe it or not, prices in the exclusive suburbs/areas of chicago DIDN’T see the huge increases during the boom – Why? because builders started building expensive mansions all over.’
Dead on Clio!
If I had a dollar for every friend who bought *big* @ Damen/Chicago, Damen/Roscoe, Racine/Wrightwood 7 to 10 years ago, I’d be posting from my Feadship in St. Tropez. All of a sudden, the 1800 sq ft rowhouse on Belden/Geneva looks like a brick of solid gold to them. True it didn’t have a family room/kitchen combo, dozens of baths, studio sized walk-in closets, but it had LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Hope you enjoy 3800 sq ft of $22K in property taxes, bad schools, and vinyl sided college renting neighbors.
There’s a reason why the ‘affordable’ areas were affordable pre-bubble… they weren’t prime areas, not 20 years ago and certainly not today now that the free money has dried up. I’ve always been emphatic about old school neighborhood boundaries (especially LP were I’ve lived most of my life), as they were always a guide to the value of a home; swapping the label doesn’t improve the quality. When Roscoe Village houses surpassed the value of those in true LP, I taped my windows and waited for the storm to hit.
Anon open house if you’re in the area.
Ended.
clio,
how does the supply of McMansions decrease? What do they do with all the ones that were already built, in the B areas? Seems as those come down, that should apply pressure on the more expensive areas.
ze,
the prices of mcmansions in cheaper areas are plummeting. in addition, no more are being built in these areas/suburbs. this combination will ensure that these areas will stay “affordable” for many years.
people looking for nice places in nice areas are definitely coming back to the gold coast, east lincoln park, streeterville in the city and hinsdale/oakbrook/winnetka/kenilworth in the suburbs (remember, in the mid 2000s, people were buying “nice” 1-2 million dollar houses in lakeview, bucktown, wicker park, elmhurst, downers grove, naperville – it was truly unbelievable).
funny what you say because it’s the perfect place for the 2/2 w/crib crowd. Exactly the people it was intended for, next. 4 years ago that spreas was over a million. Now it’s well under, and the guy that hasn’t gotten hurt. The guy who want’s it, can’t buy it, even though he has more cash, better salary, better credit, and the spread is cheaper 3 years later than he ever could have hoped for.
Would be nice to have the option to build the old equity loss into/on top of the new loan.
“I doubt someone who is looking in Logan Square would EVER want to live in Hinsdale.”
I’m not so sure about that Sabrina…..
Let’s forget about the exact suburb, but let’s imagine a realistic scenario of someone who may want to buy the subject property on this thread:
A young couple in their 30s/40s with 2 young kids (under 10). Both working (in chicago) and making a total 125k (let’s say one parent makes 80k while the other makes 45k). Their expenses for this house will be:
90k down payment and 2200-2400/month piti depending on rates. Plus bc both work, they may pay at least 1-2k/month in child care/housekeeping/transportation and all the expenses that come from having a 2 working parent households
If this was my family (and I was the parent making 80k), I would say, forget this life – I’m moving here:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Saint-Charles/1915-Fairfax-Rd-60174/home/16989508
I also would say to my wife – quit work and stay at home. Sure we would lose 45k income, but the amount we would save (financially and psychologically) by having 1 parent at home taking care of the kids would be ENORMOUS.
Financially, the costs would be as follows:
64k downpayment (savings of26k upfront),
monthly costs of about 1700/month (real estate savings of about 500-700 hundred/month).
More importantly, we would be saving about 1-2k/month from having one parent at home (no child care, no housekeeping charge, and no expenses for the non-working parent lunch/workclothes/workplace expenses)
Total savings = about 25-35k/year (which is almost equivalent to the 45k salary (after taxes, etc.)
More importantly, having one parent at home with the kids (to drive them places and take care of them) would be psychologically the biggest relief!!! I would make the commute to chicago knowing that everything at home was being taken care of by the wife.
and most important of all, we wouldn’t have to send our kids to private schools or worry about them getting shot, killed, mugged on the street.
I bet this is a typical scenario that places out everyday in chicago.
In addition, if you cared about your kids and both parents still wanted to work, you could move to this same priced house in hinsdale. You would get free schools that are arguably better than any private school in the city and would be raising your kids in a safe environment. Also, look at the house – it is much better looking than the subject property:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Hinsdale/21-Camberley-Ct-60521/home/18019808
oh – and a 20 minute train ride downtown.
THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO START HAPPENING ALL OVER CHICAGO PEOPLE – people with kids are going to start their mass exodus to the suburbs. SFH not in the green zone are doomed.
If we forget which suburb you’re talking about- then I agree with you that more and more people are going to make the calculation that the schools just aren’t worth the risk in the city (especially those families that make under $200k- as per your example.)
Their salary just goes farther in the burbs and the schools are far superior (depending on the suburb, of course, as not all are created equal.) Not to mention they get much more space.
Do you buy a 3-bedroom 1850 square foot townhouse in the Blaine school district for $460,000 and think “we’ll deal with the high school issue later” or do you buy a 3-bedroom 2400 square foot single family home for $400k in who knows how many different suburbs all with far superior schools and access to the metra etc for manageable commutes?
Once people realize they’re going to be “stuck” in properties for 10 years or more- they’ll start to rethink their options. This is why the 2/2 condo – out of all the properties- appears to be getting hammered the worst (and don’t even get me started on the 2/1).
Oh- and yes- I know anonny will say, “I would sacrifice my arm to stay in east lincoln park. I don’t care if I’m raising my kids in a 1600 square foot space.”
But I don’t think that is the common belief. Most people in Chicago aren’t urban (we’ve discussed this before.) They really DO want to live in Ravenswood Manor, which, for all intents and purposes is not that different from Oak Park, Park Ridge, Evanston etc.
Every time I watch that HGTV show “Selling NY”- it reminds me of how different we are. Those buyers are desperate to stay in the city. They will spend $1.3 million for 1100 square foot 2/2 and attempt to raise kids in it! Yet here in Chicago- they can’t give away the 3000 square foot co-ops along the lakefront (in which you can easily raise a family- at least by the square footage.)
We’re really a single family home type of city- in many ways (despite our reputation for skyscrapers.)
“I bet this is a typical scenario that places out everyday in chicago.”
Interesting scenario and pretty common I’d say. We went from a dual income household to a one income household and now back to a two incomes. My wife doesn’t need to work and loves staying home with our daughter but she was offered a job that was too good to pass up. Then again, we’re lucky because we have an in-law around to help watch our daughter in the mornings and a nanny share arrangement with neighbors for $7/hour, which makes it much more worthwhile from a financial standpoint.
We’re a Logan Square family and the commute to my job is about 35-40 minutes on transit and $2.25 each way. For the hell of it, I put the St. Charles house in Google Maps and the commute is 1 hour and 20 minutes and costs nearly 3X as much. Plus, I would need to drive to the train station, which means we would need two cars or my wife would be stuck home with the kid all day. So, the scenario would involve getting a second car, paying 3X as much to commute to work, and spending about 2 hours more per day commuting. I can understand living in the suburbs within walking distance of a train station and taking an express train into downtown or living in an suburb like Oak Park, where prices are reasonable and the commute is fast (which we did for a year), but Kane County is quite the hike. I like Ze’s recommendation a few days ago, on aiming for a commute of 15-20 minutes max…
“Once people realize they’re going to be “stuck” in properties for 10 years or more- they’ll start to rethink their options. This is why the 2/2 condo – out of all the properties- appears to be getting hammered the worst (and don’t even get me started on the 2/1).”
The only thing that is going to save 2/2, or 2/1 are investors. Remember that young people still absolutely want to live in the city as long as they can (until their oldest is school aged). Where are these people going to live? They are going to rent all those 2/2 and 2/1 and 1/1 – but not in the “fringe areas” – they are likely going to rent in the GZ (and they WILL pay a premium for renting – there is no other alternative for them – in their minds).
Chris M- I agree that, depending on your situation, St. charles is not a great option – but there are many other suburbs (la grange, oak park, western springs, elmhurst) – you could get:
– more house for your money
– better schools
– more peace of mind
In addition, if you are able to return to 1 parent family, the 2nd parent may not feel that bad taking extra time for their commute.
clio your figures make total sense. however, they’re not moving to Kane County, they’re moving to Park Ridge:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/449-Stewart-Ave-60068/home/13638111
Short walk to a 20 min express train. Huge lot by city standards. Walk to downtown; short drive into city (outside of rush hours). Great place to raise kids, no need for private school. Friendly (although allegedly douchy) neighbors. (downside $8,300 a year taxes!!!)
I’ve lived in Chicago for 16 years, nearly half my life, and given the price crashes in the suburbs, this is it, $460 for a crapshack in bell blaine etc or that house in park ridge. so what if it’s not ‘walkable’ like lakeview – i don’t have teh time or ability to ‘walk’ anywhere now that I have a toddler; I have no interest in being close to bars or clubs to drink all night; and if I hear anymore god damn reggeton music at 3:00 am driving down keeler ave…
Good example HD. Thank you.
This is the choice. Do I buy that house in Park Ridge or do I buy the townhouse or duplex down in Blaine or Bell or Lincoln?
Would you pay another $200,000 just to say you live in Ravenswood Manor or Sauganash (without the decent grade schools?) What’s the difference between Park Ridge and those neighborhoods? Not like there are many bars to stroll to anyway in either one.
I understand the difference between the really “urban” areas of Chicago- but not so much with the further out areas (say, Portage Park, Galewood etc.)
And, to me, this house in this thread should be selling for like $225,000. I don’t get it. All our Logan Park experts on this site say this ISN’T the “good” part of Logan Square. So not only are you not in the best part of that neighborhood you also have to deal with the schools?
If you’re paying less- than fine. But, once again, $449,000 is NOT middle class housing.
I don’t get it.
“This is the choice. Do I buy that house in Park Ridge or do I buy the townhouse or duplex down in Blaine or Bell or Lincoln?”
I don’t know – most people I know in the city would rather live in a nicer house a little further out. If you have kids, proximity to the city is not as important as you think. You are NOT going out to eat for the casual night out, you are NOT going to take the whole family down every weekend for festivals, etc. Your life will be tied up with the kids’ friends/schools and neighborhood – so why not mover further out and get a LOT more for your money (north or west).
Living in park ridge, evanston or a near west suburb is like taking a “baby step” for people like you (Sabrina and HD) who don’t quite “get it” yet. You are like the people who bought the 2/2 in the boom years (falsely thinking that you are still going to have somewhat of a social life in the city once you have kids). Seriously, you are making the same mistakes these folks did in the boom years. Think about it…..
Jay:
“If I had a dollar for every friend who bought *big* @ Damen/Chicago, Damen/Roscoe, Racine/Wrightwood 7 to 10 years ago, I’d be posting from my Feadship in St. Tropez. All of a sudden, the 1800 sq ft rowhouse on Belden/Geneva looks like a brick of solid gold to them. True it didn’t have a family room/kitchen combo, dozens of baths, studio sized walk-in closets, but it had LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Hope you enjoy 3800 sq ft of $22K in property taxes, bad schools, and vinyl sided college renting neighbors.
There’s a reason why the ‘affordable’ areas were affordable pre-bubble… they weren’t prime areas, not 20 years ago and certainly not today now that the free money has dried up.”
Indeed. That pretty much sums it up.
Sabrina:
“Do you buy a 3-bedroom 1850 square foot townhouse in the Blaine school district for $460,000 and think “we’ll deal with the high school issue later” or do you buy a 3-bedroom 2400 square foot single family home for $400k in who knows how many different suburbs all with far superior schools and access to the metra etc for manageable commutes?
Once people realize they’re going to be “stuck” in properties for 10 years or more- they’ll start to rethink their options. This is why the 2/2 condo – out of all the properties- appears to be getting hammered the worst.”
Guess what property class has been hammered even worse? SFHs is historically great burbs. Believe me, it’s crossed my mind more than once to seize the opportunity to buy into the northshore (let alone all the other burbs, which have been seriously hammered). Alas, there’s been far fewer such opportunities in the very best hoods in the city.
HD:
“given the price crashes in the suburbs, this is it, $460 for a crapshack in bell blaine etc or that house in park ridge. so what if it’s not ‘walkable’ like lakeview – i don’t have teh time or ability to ‘walk’ anywhere now that I have a toddler; I have no interest in being close to bars or clubs to drink all night”
What?! Do you seriously define “walkability” by your proximity to places in which to drink all night?
Ever taken your todler for a run on the lake? Ever walked a couple of blocks over to the zoo (rather than driving there)? Walked to the Nature Musuem (or the Conservatory…has your kid spent many days with the trains there over the holidays?)?
Other than for work, when I leave my “walkable” hood (and good grief, I haven’t gone out drinking all night in over 16 years), it’s to drive two blocks and hop on the drive, straight to to the Shedd, Field, Science & Indus or Millenium Park (not quite a mark of “walkability,” but it’s surely an urban convenience).
“Ever taken your todler for a run on the lake? Ever walked a couple of blocks over to the zoo (rather than driving there)? Walked to the Nature Musuem (or the Conservatory…has your kid spent many days with the trains there over the holidays?)?”
You’re not doing this if you live in Blaine, Bell, Burley either. Nor Norwood Park or Edison Park (with the other good grade schools.) You’re getting in your car and DRIVING to the Lincoln Park Zoo like everyone else.
I don’t see many people walking their kids to the zoo from Lincoln Square (but you can, apparently, ride your bike to Wrigley Field) or from Ravenswood Manor, Bucktown, or the East Village.
So what’s the point? People should overpay to live in those neighborhoods because of what again? Because they can take the Brown Line downtown in 50 minutes instead of the express Metra train?
I don’t get it. If you have a $1 million to spend- then great- plenty of options. But for the upper middle class family- the city still doesn’t make much sense even though prices have come down about 20% to 30% in most locations.
“Living in park ridge, evanston or a near west suburb is like taking a “baby step” for people like you (Sabrina and HD) who don’t quite “get it” yet. You are like the people who bought the 2/2 in the boom years (falsely thinking that you are still going to have somewhat of a social life in the city once you have kids).”
I was just in St. Charles over the weekend. It took me 1 hour and 45 minutes to drive there on a Saturday afternoon (thanks to the traffic jam on the expressway.)
Good times!
You couldn’t pay me to live out there. I’ll take HD’s bungalow in Park Ridge, thanks. Plenty of space for my family.
Speaking as someone who has recently gone from 1 to 2 to 3 kids and was as committed to city living as anyone, staying in the city – as much as I love it – makes little sense in my situation. With 1 child, I could easily do city living, go to the zoo/museums/Millennium Park every weekend and eat out all the time. I could even afford private school. Now I can’t do any of those things practically, and the burbs are looking a whole lot more attractive. Never thought I’d say that, but that’s the reality.
Yes, I should have foretold this all from the start, but while it’s easy to predict how more kids will change you financially, it’s much harder to predict how they will change you mentally – especially when you are internally dogmatic about city living.
I suspect I’m not the only such parent who bought in the city of Chicago.
Yes, Clio, those are some more interesting examples. I’ve said for the last year or more that there are deals in the suburbs. Buyers really have some great options now.
It really will be interesting to see what people choose over the next few years. Clearly- the richer contingent is choosing to stay in the city which is why the $1.2 million new construction homes in Blaine and hot, hot, hot Coonley keep selling. But that is just a small fraction of the housing market.
chi-dad,
totally agree. i remember when my wife and i went from 1 to 2 kids in boston- we thought we were being very smart by moving into a 3000 sq ft triplex in a brownstone (in one of the buildings I had renovated). However, city living is no longer “fun exciting or interesting” when you have 2 kids!!! In addition, vertical living with kids is a nightmare – another thing people don’t realize.
“I suspect I’m not the only such parent who bought in the city of Chicago.”
Nope. You’re not alone chi_dad. Jennifer just gave an example of a friend who bought a few years ago who wasn’t concerned about the schools until her daughter approached kindergarten. There are a lot of things that can change once you have kids and as they get older.
Heck, you could be a parent who moves to Graceland West and then puts your 2 kids into the Lab School and decides after 6 months that driving them to school everyday for like a half an hour or more really, really sucks. You thought the commute wouldn’t be that bad- but it was.
Things change. Situations change. But now that the housing market has also changed a LOT more people are going to be trying to predict their futures instead of trying to deal with it in a few years.
The big thing for me is that my wife – who doesn’t work – feels trapped in our smallish condo with 2 young kids – despite the fact we live right near Lincoln Park, the Zoo, Oz Park, etc. We never thought we’d trade location for more space but here we are.
Despite the fact that we live in the vaunted Lincoln school district and my oldest was accepted into one of the classical schools.
“Heck, you could be a parent who moves to Graceland West and then puts your 2 kids into the Lab School”
Sabrina, bad timing – you should have used another example:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-1-killed-1-wounded-near-graceland-cemetery-on-north-side-20110828,0,6529339.story?track=rss
chi-dad,
what is your price range for a house/bigger place. That would seem the key point in deciding where you go.
clio – the house in darien is a nightmare, way too big for me. I don’t care that I get more for my money, living in some suburban tract home with few tress across the street from suburban townhomes is not appealing to me. at least in park ridge there aren’t the tract subdivisions.
HD – my god father lived in park ridge and we used to go there every weekend. I hated it and couldn’t understand why people would pay a premium to live in a suburb that was closer to the city. The houses are small and dated and very expensive for what they are. I remember thinking that these people could live in nicer places in glencoe, wilmette, and evanston.
The resolution of the story – and this gives me away to the people here that know me – is that I took a great job offer in a less expensive city which has been the way out for us. We’re renting out our 3/2.5 in LP at break-even and we’re living in a dope house in the semi-burbs with tons of space. Chicago it ain’t, but it is a much better fit for 3 kids.
“Good example HD. Thank you.
This is the choice. Do I buy that house in Park Ridge or do I buy the townhouse or duplex down in Blaine or Bell or Lincoln?
Would you pay another $200,000 just to say you live in Ravenswood Manor or Sauganash (without the decent grade schools?) What’s the difference between Park Ridge and those neighborhoods? Not like there are many bars to stroll to anyway in either one.
I understand the difference between the really “urban” areas of Chicago- but not so much with the further out areas (say, Portage Park, Galewood etc.)”
Great post, Sabrina. Exactly the reasons we live on the North Shore.
Oh yeah, and renting in said new city.
HD – I just looked at houses for sale in park ridge and I have to say, I am shocked at how cheap the houses have become. Wtf would ANYONE with kids (or wanting to have kids) move to logan square, lakeview, west lincoln park, wicker park, etc.
Anyone with kids in the 300-700k price range are being foolish if they ignore these suburbs.
Sabrina’s right about the city being for upper middle class. I’m a good example.
I was raised in an upper middle class family, where we could afford private school for both me and my brother. Each of us went for 14 years (JK-12), and I’d estimate tuition probably averaged $20,000 a year, inflation adjusted, for each of us. This was in the 1970s and 1980s. We lived in a nice town home (really house sized) in East Lakeview. A really great urban neighborhood where we could walk to Wrigley, the zoo, Belmont Harbor, lots of fantastic shops and restaurants.
Exactly how many people out there today can afford a $40,000 private school tuition bill every year? I suppose public elementary schools are better these days (I hear Nettlehorst is great), but after that, what?
My wife and I don’t have the type of income my parents had (I’d guess that after adjusting for inflation, we make less than half as much). Neither of us is a doctor or lawyer; instead we chose lower-paying professions where we can spend more time at home with our kids. We bought a modestly-priced home on the North Shore, where schools aren’t an issue. It’s made for a lot of peace of mind. And we really love it out here. Once you get used to the fresh air, the quiet, the big trees, lack of traffic, the friendly neighbors, it’s hard to imagine moving back. Even couples who raised their kids on our street and now have grown-up children have stayed.
Perhaps most importantly, we now have space for marathon D and D sessions. Checking the disposition of my kids, I’m pretty sure we have a paladin, an illusionist and an assassin.
Hahahah chi_dad. You are not the first person I’ve known to leave choicago for a cheaper cost of living.
HD – I was hoping the D and D reference would draw you out 🙂 We left the Tomb of Horrors for the Keep on the Borderlands.
Today I was in north center and then I was in park ridge, and while lifestyle I prefer norh center, park ridge offers so much more, schools being the most obvious choice.
@chi-dad — I’m right there with you. I now have 3 kids (2 school aged) in the city. One child will be in private school and one child will be in a magnet program across town and next year my youngest will start preschool, probably at a different school.
I’m a former biglaw attorney, but now a stay at home mom, because it makes absolutely no sense (both economically and psychologically) for me to work basically to pay for other people to take care of the kids and get them to where they all need to go on a daily basis.
Although I love where I live in Chicago, and we actually have plenty of space, I often daydream about how much easier it would be move to the ‘burbs and have the kids go to one elementary school that doesn’t cost the same as my law school.
That said, I have no desire to lose a big chunk of equity we have in our house, and I worry that the home prices in the burbs (we likely would not go to hinsdale or the exclusive north shore burbs) are still dropping. So we’re sticking it out.
Interestingly, the couple renting our 3/2.5 are both attorneys and have 4 children. They lost their a$$ on their SFH in ELP and need to stay in the area for the schools. They are good people. Sign of the times.
It was difficult to sell our house in Oak Park knowing that a solid elementary, middle, and high school were all within walking distance. We sold and moved back to our city house to save money and we’re going to give the magnet lottery a spin when our daughter is ready for school. We’re years away, but I’m not looking forward to transporting her around town. We thought it likely that we would move back to Oak Park or perhaps Evanston or Highland Park in 3-4 years, but the wife is now teaching in CPS so looks like we’ll need to stay in the city if she wants to keep her job.
HD – Took a drive around the Villa today. Cute area, but quite a compact neighborhood surrounded by not so great areas (except for OIP to the west). Some neat bungalows over there, though.
“The big thing for me is that my wife – who doesn’t work – feels trapped in our smallish condo with 2 young kids – despite the fact we live right near Lincoln Park, the Zoo, Oz Park, etc. We never thought we’d trade location for more space but here we are.”
Thanks for sharing chi_dad. So you’re saying that you felt trapped there with 2 young kids yet you’re renting it out to a family with FOUR kids who had to downsize from their bigger ELP house?
Interesting.
Good for you for moving somewhere cheaper and getting more space.
“Ever taken your todler for a run on the lake? Ever walked a couple of blocks over to the zoo (rather than driving there)? Walked to the Nature Musuem (or the Conservatory…has your kid spent many days with the trains there over the holidays?)?”
I am with anonny on this. Walking around with my baby in his stroller was priceless this summer. Living close to museums and with good bus system is a blessing. when it gets cooler I can hop on a bus and go see an exhibit. I am just not the the type of mum that would put her kids in an suv and then go to woodfield mall for an outing.
That being said, I completely understand the fact that if parents cannot afford a good education for their kids, they sacrifice their quality of life and move to suburbs. Of course there are also those parents that really enjoy a bigger house and are not walkers. Now that we are back in our small town, I am much more limited in where I can walk with my baby as the side walks are not every where and streets are poorly lit. Also once it gets cold, I am not sure where I can go with the little bug.
“So what’s the point? People should overpay to live in those neighborhoods because of what again? Because they can take the Brown Line downtown in 50 minutes instead of the express Metra train?”
If you work near Dearborn, State, Clark streets, red/blue/brown lines are way better than say Union Station. CTA trains run more often, at all hours. Plus, in an emergency, there’s always a taxi.
I think chi_dad highlights on the magic number: three. In terms of space, and for many upper-middle class families, money (including private schools), plenty of families would rather live in a smaller home in one of the city’s great hoods. Once there’s a third kid in the mix, the family either needs to be a bit more than upper-middle class (i.e., buy a $2 million home and comfortably pay $60k+/yr for school, while saving for college and retirement), or the nice burbs (or another nice city) become impossible to ignore. If we have a second, our condo will begin to feel crowded, but it would suffice until we found a place with a third bedroom, somewhere within blocks of our current location. Were we to have a third, I would quickly need to develop an affinity for the Metra, and we’d be waiting for a deal (of which there are currently many) on the southeast northshore.
Miumiu and anonny and HD – having 1 kid is VERY VERY different than having 2 kids. It seems as though it is way more than double the work (actually, I think that with 1 kid and 2 working parents, things are hectic but manageable – but with 2, it is devastating!!!)
I think many people with children stay in the city (and stayed in the city in the past) because they don’t know what is out there in the suburbs. If they did, NONE of them would stay (why would they?).
Funny, for us it was one kid. There are a lot of unique situtaions out there. If you have about 100-150k in combined income you can likely work a 1-2 kid scheme. If both incomes are about the same that second kid (depending on spacing) can kill the math for daycare costs and working. When they are close together it is really hard to pay for 2 kids in daycare (assuming one is destined for public school). Do not foregt though, the CPS school day isn’t compatable with a 9-5 professional schedule and often the interim care is just as expensive as full-day care or tution to a longer day private school. All of this makes it a little more difficult for greenzoners to make it with high RE costs. Before our little villager was born we had found a decent priced daycare and moved to a huge 3 br Lincoln Square apt. Awesome in every way except for the following:
We need a specialized daycare that allows for Early Intervention and the only one with immediate space is out in Villa Park, so we called in a moving van. Nannys were astronomical, amazing how hard it is to get someone comfortable with a feeding tube. We are now the FormerRV/LS PresentWheaton family. Good times.
Sabrina – for this property the premium has got to be for the lot. If this is on a single instead of a double, you’re right that it is well under 300K. I think some folks just do go ga-ga over the “forbidden extra lot” – hell, I know we did. Just the sunlight pouring in our house all the time is a huge quality of life increase from the dark and jammed-close-together victorians I grew up in. When we open windows we do in fact get a real breeze!
I’m starting to think Chicago’s urban renewal is only going to last a generation as the schooling issue comes to the forefront over the next decade.
HD – schooling in Chicago has ALWAYS been an issue – you just are realizing it more because now you have a kid. Nothing is going to change – cps will ALWAYS be bad and are not going to improve in our lifetime (or beyond). They just won’t. Wishing and wanting aren’t going to make it happen.
Like I’d take clio’s advice on CPS seriously. Stick to what you know, bud.
This is the place to find the straight dope on the schools:
http://cpsobsessed.com/
If anything can save the system, it will be increased transparency & networking/teamwork that the Digital Age has made possible.
“I hear anymore god damn reggeton music at 3:00 am driving down keeler ave…”
Sorry HD. I think that was me. I took a reaggaeton dance class the other day. We learned that a woman’s magic is all in the back and a man’s magic is all in the front, LOL.
My mother was born in Chicago in the 50’s and her parents moved to the suburbs in 1962 because, in her own words, “everyone knew that chicago public schools were bad.” Even back then…the more things change, the more they stay the same…
HD:
I’d like to introduce myself as the seller of the above mentioned 2630 N. Drake home and take a moment to share who we are and why we sold.
Like everyone else here, we’re raising our family and struggling to make the best possible choices based on our values, our finances and our best personal judgment. We’re frustrated by some of the challenges of city living, yet love so many of the benefits. We’re saddened by the general state of CPS, and yet there are many gems of schools that you can find – it often requires creativity and a bit of stress and effort. We want to work to make our community, our schools and our city better. And we feel the way to do that is by staying.
We’re a single child household, and we’re sending our son to a CPS school. Kindergarten starts next week!
Why did we move? In short, we fell in love with another house on our favorite street. It wasn’t intentional, but we took a tour of a dilapidated brick house about three blocks from our home on Drake and we knew the possibilities were endless. We’ve been rehabbing our new-old house since the spring and with a little luck, we’ll be done within the next two weeks.
Our Drake house was a labor of love. We loved fixing it up and we were sad to leave it. By selling, we’re not escaping the city or the neighborhood, in fact we’re putting down even deeper roots in the area.
For those interested, here’s the house we’re rehabbing. It’s a gem.
http://bit.ly/qqEUGL
Mark – That house is a beauty and 2400N-2600N Bernard are two very special blocks. Good luck with your restoration project–I hope to see it one day on the Logan Square house walk! See you around the neighborhood.