Housing Bust Deja-Vu? 2-Bedroom Short Sale in River North at 33 W. Ontario
This 2-bedroom in Millennium Centre at 33 W. Ontario in River North came on the market in January 2023 listed as a short sale.
Built in 2003, Millennium Centre has 363 units and attached garage parking.
It’s a full service building with 24-hour door staff, an outdoor pool, fitness center, package in-unit delivery service, bike room, and a party room.
This unit has a split floor plan with skyline views.
It appears there are hardwood floors throughout the main living space and the bedrooms.
The kitchen has wood cabinets, what looks like granite counter tops and black appliances.
It’s unclear if there is primary suite but there appears to be a walk-in-closet.
It has the features that buyers look for including central air and washer/dryer in the unit. There doesn’t appear to be parking with the unit but it’s available to rent in the neighborhood (and the building?).
This unit is in the heart of River North near Trader Joe’s, Jewel, shops and restaurants and will also be near the new temporary casino.
This unit has come on the market listed as a “short sale” at $425,000. A lis pendens foreclosure was filed on it in April 2022.
But the last sale, in 2010, was also a distress sale. The bank took back the unit in the housing bust, in 2009 and sold it for $309,000.
The 2010 listing said: “Great investment opportunity. Corp owned Property Sold “As-Is” Condition.”
Are short sales and distress sales about to take off in Chicago’s struggling downtown?
Richard Schiller at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here (sorry, no floor plan.)
Unit #33F: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1295 square feet
- Sold in November 2003 for $565,000
- Bank owned in April 2009
- Sold “as-is” in October 2010 for $309,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in April 2022
- Listed as a “short sale” in January 2023 for $425,000
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- No Parking
- Bedroom #1: 14×11
- Bedroom #2: 12×10
- Living/dining room: 16×15
- Kitchen: 12×7
How are short sales eve possible, low unemployment, rates coming down, muh demographics, pent up demand, lack of inventory, etc?
Sounds like fake news
Seems odd for a short sale to have 4 other properties < or = to ask. Why not just go with 53F and not deal with a short sale?
That being said, Anyone thinking about buying here needs to give their head a shake. You can rent a better 2/2 for less money (53F is also for rent for $3500/mo) and won’t be saddled with the pride of ownership of this turd. I almost feel sorry for folks that got duped into buying a crappy 2/2, almost
bUY NOw oR bE PrICeD OuT fORevER
Time is a flat circle.
“How are short sales eve[n] possible”
nvm that, how about this:
October 2010 for $309,000
“short sale” in January 2023 for $425,000
I thought the Housing ATM spigot had been turned off?
so:
related party deed in 2015, when a $330k mortgage was obtained. 15 year @ 3.125%. As of Mar-20 (just before covid) balance would have been $238k. This is the loan being F/C’d
$154k HELOC from Mar-19. Must be fully drawn.
Did this place really appriase for $500k in early 2019? Or was that HELOC ltv aggressive?
@Anon, there were HELOCs available at 90% combined loan to value then. Figure 1st mortgage balance would have been around $260? $260+$154=$414k. So would have needed to appraise around $460k.
Makes sense, thanks, Russ.
Maybe they HELOC’d their way into a sprinter van and have been chasing waves and powder between Baja and British Columbia. Or bought Amazon or vax stocks in Feb ’20, or an inn in Portugal.
It is obvious they didn’t use the funds for reno work. Owned by corp? Wonder if they took money out to fund other property down payments? Failed AirBNBer?
“How are short sales eve possible, low unemployment, rates coming down, muh demographics, pent up demand, lack of inventory, etc?”
For three years I’ve been documenting how terrible Chicago’s downtown housing market is, including people selling at prices back to 2005, or even worse, back to 2000. Some people losing hundreds of thousands of dollars even though they’ve owned for 20+ years.
Heck, Ken Griffin just lost $4 million on one of his penthouses he bought at the bottom of the bust in 2012.
Downtown Chicago has taken it on the chin in the pandemic, as everyone except, apparently, JohnnyU already knows. The pandemic and the protests really hit the entire downtown core. You had a combination of Silent Generation and Baby Boomers deciding to move full time to their winter retirement homes, so they were all selling, while at the same time young people preferred to either rent or many married and moved to the neighborhoods or suburbs where they could afford a home or townhouse.
Developers have also built too many luxury condos so there is excess supply of those which is really impacting the luxury market, especially in older buildings which are no longer as hot as 10 or 20 years ago. Buyers still love “new” and want it.
It’s going to take a while to work through all the inventory. Sellers really have to be at the top of their game with new kitchens and baths and stage it to appeal to today’s buyers.
20 year old kitchens aren’t going to cut it anymore. This isn’t San Francisco or New York with little inventory. We keep building, and there are plenty of new apartments which ARE the competition.
For those wondering if you should rent or buy, you really have to consider how long you will live in the property as there are a lot of transaction costs with buying. The jig is up in Chicago. No one thinks you’re going to make money owning downtown in just 1 to 3 years anymore.
Chicago real estate goes in cycles. It’s truly incredible that this unit sold 20 years ago for over $500k with high mortgage rates. And yes, this building sold out and probably had people waiting in line when the sales center opened.
There are going to be a lot of deals out there in 2023. But I think buyers will really be waiting on the sidelines for a while because they think they will get them cheaper when the recession hits.
Great analysis, Sabrina. Very helpful as my wife and I are looking to buy downtown in 5-7 years.
It does seem like the condo towers along LSD in Gold Coast continue to have high asking prices. Is LSD immune from some of the pressure seen in areas like River North and Streeterville?
“It does seem like the condo towers along LSD in Gold Coast continue to have high asking prices. Is LSD immune from some of the pressure seen in areas like River North and Streeterville?”
No. I would say it’s even more likely to see the pressures because most of the owners in those buildings are older. They are leaving the city. Still need a changeover along that street. And it’s out of favor with younger buyers due to location, the buildings being older, higher HOAs etc.
Lake Shore Drive just isn’t what it used to be, perhaps?
Kind of like what we’re seeing with all of the units for sale in 1040 N LSD. The Carlyle was very popular with the Silent Generation and Baby Boomers.
But right now, there are 12 on the market out of 130 units.
Here’s one that just went under contract.
“DEAL OF THE CENTURY! YOU WILL NOT SEE PRICING LIKE THIS AGAIN! UNBELIEVABLE OFFERING FOR THIS HIGH FLOOR PALATIAL NORTHEAST CORNER D-TIER CONDOMINIUM AT THE PRESTIGIOUS CARLYLE.”
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1040-Lake-Shore-Dr-60611/unit-31D/home/14123007
“The Carlyle”
I hate that living room floor, and everything else says “2002” (or so), but that’s a lot more livable as-is than a lot of the other ones we have seen.
“For three years I’ve been documenting how terrible Chicago’s downtown housing market is, including people selling at prices back to 2005, or even worse, back to 2000. Some people losing hundreds of thousands of dollars even though they’ve owned for 20+ years.”
You are the one that harps non stop about how buyers will adjust their expectations with current conditions. If 1/2 of what you say is true, the downturn in DT RE shouldnt be so severe
“Developers have also built too many luxury condos so there is excess supply of those which is really impacting the luxury market, especially in older buildings which are no longer as hot as 10 or 20 years ago. Buyers still love “new” and want it.”
Is this place luxury? Complete non-sequitur
“Downtown Chicago has taken it on the chin in the pandemic, as everyone except, apparently, JohnnyU already knows. The pandemic and the protests really hit the entire downtown core. You had a combination of Silent Generation and Baby Boomers deciding to move full time to their winter retirement homes, so they were all selling, while at the same time young people preferred to either rent or many married and moved to the neighborhoods or suburbs where they could afford a home or townhouse.”
RN was frothy pre Pandemic
So no BUy NOw Or bE PrICeD oUt FoREVer?
Thought all youngs wanted to live in the city?
“20 year old kitchens aren’t going to cut it anymore. This isn’t San Francisco or New York with little inventory. We keep building, and there are plenty of new apartments which ARE the competition.”
So invest $50k to still sell at a loss? Brilliant strategy
With the limited inventory what are your options – Oh yeah rent. Why you argue rentals not being a viable option Vs owning is a great mystery
What happened to MUH DEMOGRAPHICS?
“For those wondering if you should rent or buy, you really have to consider how long you will live in the property as there are a lot of transaction costs with buying. The jig is up in Chicago. No one thinks you’re going to make money owning downtown in just 1 to 3 years anymore.”
The risk reward was never there for this time frame anywhere in Chicago. Nashville/Austin/etc – Yes.
Going back to my central point – Buying a shitbox 2/2 in Chicago is a losing proposition if your goal is to move up the property ladder.
Shilling about it doesnt change the calculus
“You are the one that harps non stop about how buyers will adjust their expectations with current conditions. If 1/2 of what you say is true, the downturn in DT RE shouldnt be so severe”
They HAVE adjusted expectations. If you want to buy a 2/2 for $300,000, you can now do that downtown. But they don’t WANT to live downtown. In the neighborhoods? Sure. But downtown? No. Market perception is that you can’t make money owning downtown so why buy? And they’re not wrong.
And then you have the issue of many of these units being out of date. Buyers want “new.” They want something renovated.
There’s too much inventory downtown. It’s the only neighborhood that is a buyer’s market. And that is reflected in prices. Generational turnover means it could take a few years to work through it all. But meanwhile, there will be deals for some discerning buyers who are ready to live in downtown for the next 10 to 20 years.
“Going back to my central point – Buying a shitbox 2/2 in Chicago is a losing proposition if your goal is to move up the property ladder.”
This is absolutely NOT the case in the neighborhoods, at all, as long as you didn’t buy at the peak of the housing bubble.
And even then, if you’ve lived in it for the last 18 years, you’ve paid down a lot of the mortgage on it (hopefully.) Nothing wrong with having an asset and growing your equity.
I wonder how many original 2005 buyers are STILL owners of that same unit? I feel it’s more common in the Gold Coast, Streeterville, River North in the high rises than it is in the 2/2 in the 4-unit building in the neighborhoods. 2005 2/2 buyers sold during the bust shortly thereafter. This is why there were so many foreclosure/short sale sales.
“So invest $50k to still sell at a loss? Brilliant strategy”
In most cities, you get out what you make of the property. This is true in Nashville, Austin, Raleigh etc. If you have 20+ year old finishes, the property isn’t going to sell for what an updated property will.
Home ownership is a lot of work. People love “new” because they can move in and not really do anything for 10+ years. But if you live anywhere long enough, you have to update and replace things like the appliances, faucets, even light fixtures.
If you don’t want to do any of it, don’t be an owner. Or do what many of the estate sales do: just sell as-is for a fraction of what the property is really worth.
“They HAVE adjusted expectations. If you want to buy a 2/2 for $300,000, you can now do that downtown. But they don’t WANT to live downtown. In the neighborhoods? Sure. But downtown? No. Market perception is that you can’t make money owning downtown so why buy? And they’re not wrong.
And then you have the issue of many of these units being out of date. Buyers want “new.” They want something renovated.”
Other than downtown, where in the city are they getting an updated highrise 2/2 for $300k?
Other than first wave of gentrification, where are buyers making money?
“This is absolutely NOT the case in the neighborhoods, at all, as long as you didn’t buy at the peak of the housing bubble.”
Other than for a few select neighborhoods for a very short period, this is false
“And even then, if you’ve lived in it for the last 18 years, you’ve paid down a lot of the mortgage on it (hopefully.) Nothing wrong with having an asset and growing your equity.”
Except as you are wont to say, no one will want an 18YO kitchen/bath, rendering ones “growing equity” into vaporware
I think ChatGPT would provide a more coherent argument
I was going to crib on this 2-bedroom loft as I love this building. It’s so unique, and so are the units.
But this Andersonville loft went under contract in just 4 days.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5823-N-Ravenswood-Ave-60660/unit-205/home/13405721
“Other than for a few select neighborhoods for a very short period, this is false”
What do you think all of our discussion on the rise in property taxes are all about JohnnyU? I know you don’t live in Chicago so you don’t really know what’s going on here in real estate but there are homeowners in Humboldt Park and Pilsen that have seen their home values double in the last 20 years.
But if you bought 20 years ago, in 2003, in most neighborhoods, even Austin and Englewood, you have seen price appreciation. Obviously, some neighborhoods more than others.
Imagine if you’d have bought in Avondale or Jefferson Park in the early 2000s? Jefferson Park saw a lot of appraisal fraud during the boom years though. Lots of foreclosures as we had some chatterers on here talking about how they were buying in the western neighborhoods like Portage Park. They’ve done well since 2012.
Condos are up big in Wicker Park, Bucktown, all of West Town. Remember when you could get a 2/2 for like $250k? Ah, those were the days.
Lincoln Square has seen big 20 year appreciation but has cooled over the last decade. Demand pulled forward there.
Once again, I would encourage people who are reading this blog to get info on the housing market to just ignore people who don’t even live in Chicago, like JohnnyU.
Get yourself a good real estate agent who knows the neighborhood where you are looking, even right down to the street. There are agents that exist who have great knowledge.
Also a reminder, Chicago historic housing price gains are 1% to 3% a year. If it’s at the lower end for a decade, that’s tough, right? Hard to even cover your transaction costs.
But the price gains have been so big over the last 3 years all over the country, that many people are, again, believing that 10% or 20% per year are “normal.” It’s likely housing prices, once they come down off their highs, won’t go anywhere for years.
But who knows? If rates fall back below 4% again, anything could happen. The largest generation in US history still wants to buy and they have money and good paying jobs.
“Other than downtown, where in the city are they getting an updated highrise 2/2 for $300k?”
You can’t get an updated 2/2 downtown for $300k. That’s my point. It’s going to need work. But you CAN buy one.
This unit was just lowered $15,000 to $410,000.
” Chicago historic housing price gains are 1% to 3% a year. If it’s at the lower end for a decade, that’s tough, right? Hard to even cover your transaction costs.
But the price gains have been so big over the last 3 years all over the country, that many people are, again, believing that 10% or 20% per year are “normal.” ”
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Too bad “all over the country” ain’t Chicago. Just ask Gary about his blogs on the Case-Shiller index.
What vintage of Chateau Gallo are you packin’, Sabrina?
Once again, I would encourage people who are reading this blog to get info on the housing market to just ignore people who shill 24/7 and are not firmly grounded in reality like Sabrina
“In most cities, you get out what you make of the property. This is true in Nashville, Austin, Raleigh etc. If you have 20+ year old finishes, the property isn’t going to sell for what an updated property will.”
No Shit?
Pick 3 of the hottest cities that were getting bidding wars on near teardowns and use them as a comp for Chicago, LOL
Clownshoes
Too bad “all over the country” ain’t Chicago. Just ask Gary about his blogs on the Case-Shiller index.
Chicago Case Shiller is up too. Where do you people live? I’m asking in all honesty because you all have absolutely NO idea what has gone on in Chicago and Chicagoland’s housing market over the last 2 years. Are you in Florida? Arizona?
Home prices were up in Chicagoland too.
Inventories are still low in the entire Chicagoland area. It’s still a seller’s market.
“Home prices were up in Chicagoland too. ”
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Irrelevant when other cities are going up faster, and have done so longer, Sabrina.
Just ask Gary
“Irrelevant when other cities are going up faster, and have done so longer, Sabrina.”
The only market that matters is the one you live in johnc. If you’re in Houston, then that’s what’s relevant to you. It has never mattered to Chicago homeowners that San Jose has gone up “faster” than they have.
Also irrelevant:
what other jobs pay–you have the job you have, don’t worry about what someplace else pays.
Also irrelevant:
what other jobs pay–you have the job you have, don’t worry about what someplace else pays.
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And investments. Forget that the market is up 10 percent a year for 10 years. You’re up 1 percent!