The 3-Bedroom “Gothic Jewel” in East Lakeview: 504 W. Barry
This 3-bedroom vintage unit at 504 W. Barry in East Lakeview recently came on the market.
The 10-unit building was built in 1927 and is described in the listing as a “gothic jewel.”
At 2200 square feet, the unit has the larger room sizes common in the pre-war buildings.
The unit has some of its vintage features intact such as a woodburning fireplace and crown molding.
It also has the modern amenities buyers look for with space pac a/c and side-by-side in-unit washer/dryer.
Parking is a premium in the neighborhood, but the unit comes with parking as well as guest parking.
The listing describes the kitchen as a “chef’s kitchen”. It has stainless steel appliances.
The property also comes with a large balcony- which is somewhat unusual for this type of vintage building.
It is listed for $29,900 over the 2007 purchase price.
Will this property be able to command a premium?
Richard Cohn has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3W: 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2200 square feet
- Sold in August 2000 for $427,500
- Sold in May 2007 for $750,000
- Currently listed for $779,900
- Assessments of $744 a month (includes heat)
- Taxes of $9295
- Space Pac A/C
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Parking included
- Bedroom #1: 17×12
- Bedroom #2: 16×13
- Bedroom #3: 12×12
If these owners wanted a contemporary or modern feel, why didn’t they just buy in one of the many buildings out there suited to this style. To me, they completely ruined the character of the unit. Awful…
What exactly did they ruin? They renovated the bathrooms, updated the kitchen, painted in some modern colors, and have some modern-ish furnishings. I hardly consider that ruining the place. If they kept the ‘vintage’ kitchen or a reno from the 80s you’d be ragging on that for sure, and there is only one bathroom in the pictures that is excessively ‘out of characther’. Moreover, it looks like they’ve kept the parquet floors and the moldings, and there is still a built-in book case and a couple arches. There are far worse vintage renovations that *actually* “completely ruin” the original character.
I love this place…
I love it too.
$675k tops; $625k is probably more like it.
Bad decision to use the word box in the description. The ceilings looked quite low in some of the pictures.
“The ceilings looked quite low in some of the pictures.”
Really? Windows are oversized and/or set fairly high, but even with that I don’t get an impression of law ceilings.
Pictures 4 and 5, and the master. Maybe their furniture is just tall. The kitchen and hall way don’t look low. Maybe it’s the photos.
“Pictures 4 and 5, and the master.”
On #5, check the bookcase in the cove–unless those are paperbacks, looks to add up to ~9′ to me. #4 does have a weird perspective, plus the art is so large and 9′ tall windows so rare, that it just makes it harder to conceptualize.
On the master, I got nuthin, b/c I just don’t see how it comes across as low, as all.
I know we should talk about the property, but does anyone know where that round red and white rug in photo #14 came from? I likey …
Hard to see over somewhere around $630k for this place in the current market, with those assessments and those taxes. I think that a buyer with the finances required to buy this place anywhere near list would want a single family home. Once you back out the assessments, at current interest rates, this is pretty close to the $1mm price point.
“Once you back out the assessments, at current interest rates, this is pretty close to the $1mm price point.”
Back out $250/month for the heat, tho. At ask, that put it around $900k w/ ass, ex. heat (yea, yeah …), but I have to imagine they’re prepared for offers of ~10% less.
$250/month for the heat is way too high, averaged on an annual basis. Half that at most for a property like this. I only pay around 2/3 of that that for all the gas I use in my place, and it’s nearly twice as large and has two furnaces, neither of which is particularly efficient, and we also use gas for cooking, fires, dryers, etc.
125/month to heat 2200 sq ft? Are you insane?!!! Ask anyone who has a 2200 sq ft place how much their nicor bill is.
Jesus, dude, do you understand math? How much do you spend heating a place from April through October?
I’ll take “Gothic Jewel” over “Classical Dominick’s” or “Modern Whole Foods” any time. 😀
“$250/month for the heat is way too high, averaged on an annual basis.”
What do you know that I don’t about the age and quality of the boiler in this building? I was it’s the typical (for this vintage of building) highly dated thing that would save the association $1000/unit/year at a one time the cost of $4000/unit/year, but that’s just educated guessing.
if i only had this kinda money, love the look of the building from the outside.
Love this place. Don’t understand price.
“What do you know that I don’t about the age and quality of the boiler in this building? I was it’s the typical (for this vintage of building) highly dated thing that would save the association $1000/unit/year at a one time the cost of $4000/unit/year, but that’s just educated guessing.”
That might be true, but in this case we were discussing how much the assessment is actually costing the owner once you back out the heating costs for a similarly-priced property. The relevant calculation is what it would cost to heat, on an average monthly basis over the year, a different property in the same price range or maybe $200k higher. The high assessments costs (probably including a high cost for heating with an ancient boiler and lots of fools who don’t care about leaving their windows open, etc.) makes alternative properties more attractive to many buyers in this price range.
Looks like one of those so-called “three bedrooms” that are 2 bedrooms and a maid’s room. Usually not really useful, stuck behind a kitchen, and minute.
Still a very nice place in a great building.
“I think that a buyer with the finances required to buy this place anywhere near list would want a single family home. Once you back out the assessments, at current interest rates, this is pretty close to the $1mm price point.”
JJJ, seen any decent SFH’s south of Belmont and east of Broadway for under $1mm?
There’s a reason why people who want a 2,000 ft +, 3b/3b, with garage place in ELV, LP or the GC end up purchasing condos.
The listing says…….”TRULY A CHEF’S KITCHEN”. What does that mean? Based on the pictures it must mean that a chef actually lives here. That’s the only reasonable explanation I can come up with.
folks, I am not familiar with this neighborhood so I might be way off, but isn’t the following pretty much a killer comp for the one featured here?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/510-W-Surf-St-60657/unit-2/home/13371242
JJJ–fair enough.
But, apples to apples, then you need to deduct out landscaping, snow removal, etc., too, which you’d have to pay (in $ or time) in that SFH.
“olks, I am not familiar with this neighborhood so I might be way off, but isn’t the following pretty much a killer comp for the one featured here?”
It’s down a bathroom and the kitchen needs to be replaced, and it has window ac instead of spacepak, but it’s places like that that have everyone saying this is $100k+ too rich at ask.
miumiu, the listing at 510 W Surf is not a comp for this unit.
I looked at the Surf unit about a year ago, and liked it very much. It’s giant, bright, very charming, and feels like a sprawling one-level house (grand entry, huge living room, huge formal dining room, family room, etc.) . It is at least as large as the listing says, if not bigger.
That said, while it is arguably in an even better location that this Barry unit, the Surf unit: does not yet have central a/c or spacepak; the kitchen needs to be totally replaced (sure, the listing says the price reflects that, whatever); the “in unit” w/d is in the kitchen (not in a closet, but actually under a kitchen counter); unlike the Barry unit, it has no outdoor space; while it’s in o.k. shape, I don’t think it’s in as good as condition overall as the Barry unit; while I actually prefer the location to the Barry unit (it’s a few blocks south), it is across the street from a large Section 8 property (having lived a few doors down, I’ll say that it’s not a problem, but it may nonetheless be a value factor); and, last but not least, whereas the Barry unit has a garage space and one guest space, the Surf unit does not have parking (unless the Surf unit owner has purchased a nearby space in the past year, the space noted in the listing is a rental spot, about a block away).
Oh yes and the Surf unit only has two bathrooms.
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
05/17/2007 06/04/2007 MORTGAGE $600,000.00
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
05/17/2007 06/04/2007 MORTGAGE $112,500.00
Are the odds greater than 2:1 this will be a short sale in the future?
Wow I love this place, very elegant. It’s got alot going for it. No way you could duplicate this in a SFH in this area for under 1 to 1.2 million so I do think the price is reasonable. It should close for over 700k
“125/month to heat 2200 sq ft? Are you insane?!!! Ask anyone who has a 2200 sq ft place how much their nicor bill is.”
Have 2500SF, use the Nicor Bill plan to average bills out over the year. Pay $100 a month with small fluctuations up or down due to plan.
“There are far worse vintage renovations that *actually* “completely ruin” the original character.”
Agree, I think it’s tastefully done. I used to live down the street from this and I’ve been in a bunch of unmolested vintage units on Barry, and vintage over here is scary shit. They did a great renovation, vintage isn’t always worth saving… Seems like a nice place and great location.
“JJJ, seen any decent SFH’s south of Belmont and east of Broadway for under $1mm?”
I haven’t looked, but I expect there is something out there if you push the boundaries and the requirements a little. I just don’t see many families who can buy a $1mm SFH deciding to buy this 2200 qft condo instead (which I would consider marginally nice but not worth $350/sqft in that location) because they love the neighborhood so much.
Based on hd’s recorded amounts, it’s probably priced within 10% of where they need it to be to be able to afford to sell it, and I don’t think that price is realistic. Their 5% down payment is gone about 5 times over.
I don’t agree with hd’s approach of thinking about what an average Chicago professional makes and using that to determine property values (because people have money from a lot of different ways, have two incomes or inheritances, stock gains, real estate gains, etc.), but I do agree that you to look at what the alternatives are. I don’t see people with the means taking advantage of this instead of the alternatives.
“Are the odds greater than 2:1 this will be a short sale in the future?”
I’d bet on a short sale, if there really is $712,500 mortgage. In my opinion, this buyer paid an awful lot of money for an average piece of property. I think they are gonna take a bath on this one.
“JJJ, seen any decent SFH’s south of Belmont and east of Broadway for under $1mm?”
This one is only a few blocks away, and you are near the tracks but would be an alternative.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/932-W-Wolfram-St-60657/home/13363098
In this price range, I’d look for a town or rowhouse instead.
How about this for a comp?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/504-W-Barry-Ave-60657/unit-4W/home/12568902
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/504-W-Barry-Unit-4W-CHICAGO-IL-60657-ZNPIN7EHFAB2S.html
I think this building has an elevator vs. walk up on the Surf unit. And because of the height I’d assume fire resistant (aka concrete floors) construction, which means quieter and no shaking floors from walking around, which can be a big plus for some people. I think the assessments are rather low unless they have been VERY diligent over the years with keeping the building up and negotiating good service contracts (aka elevator service), or else they do lots of specials for work/capital projects (i.e. the newish metal back porch, etc).
The only party that’s going to take a bath is the bank in the short sale.
“JJJ, seen any decent SFH’s south of Belmont and east of Broadway for under $1mm?”
Under contract, but here:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3158-N-Pine-Grove-Ave-60657/home/13374485
4W sold for $727,500 in Oct-10, so that’s their pricing basis.
Flo, I fully agree as to looking for a town/rowhouse in the $750k – $1mm range for 2,000ish sq ft, rather than a unit like this one on Barry.
But as nice as 932 Wolfram is (and it sure is nice), I wouldn’t consider it an alternative, given its proximity to the tracks and Diversey and its considerable distance from the park/lakefront.
Nice apartment, great location but slightly overpriced. The third bedroom is a maid’s room, so I’d consider this a 2-plus bedroom rather than a 3 bedroom. The maid’s room would make a good office, though growing up in this neighborhood, I did know some friends who had to live in former “maid’s rooms” as their bedrooms and made the best of it.
I tend to think somewhere between $600,000 and $650,000 would be about right, because the building looks great, there are nice vintage touches but also modern features, there’s parking and guest parking, there’s outdoor space, and it’s a nice block. The price they’re asking seems way too high considering the relatively low square footage and the fact that the third bedroom is so small.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/501-W-Briar-Pl-60657/unit-3E/home/13373877
only one block north and just as close to lake, top floor, 3bed, 3bath
but…..half the price
anon, I hope those buyers of 3158 Pine Grove close the deal. Looks like it needs a new kitchen, but what a rare opportunity.
Flo, unless there’s a special assessment looming, 501 Briar looks like a heck of deal, at least for those who don’t value parking.
Excellent point annony and anone, of course the featured unit has perks that the other unit does not, but I am not sure it justifies the price diference. I am with anon that this one is at least 100K over priced.
anonny, the new owner on PG would be the fourth owner only. The kitchen is a big shock from the rest of the house, which is perfect, with restored woodwork, etc, but kind of cool in a hilarious way.
The owners were attacked during a break-in, I hope they are selling because of age, not fear and poor health due to the attack.
I remember this story. Agree with your comment.
“The owners were attacked during a break-in, I hope they are selling because of age, not fear and poor health due to the attack.”
really? besides the bay windows what’s so gothic about this place?
It is nicely done vintage however, way out of my price range but at least affordable for someone that isn’t a hedge fund manager
Unit 4W, which recently sold for $727,500, is a lot nicer. No way this one will sell for more.
I don’t. I hope the deal falls through and they sell it to us for $600k! Just beautiful.
“I hope those buyers of 3158 Pine Grove close the deal. Looks like it needs a new kitchen, but what a rare opportunity.”
I wish there were more people with a taste for vintage. I have a 2300 s.f vintage unit on the market at 434 Oakdale that is now down to $499,900, and we still don’t have many lookers. The late 1980s conversion added gas forced air/ac, but didn’t destroy much of the vintage detail and character. The master bath needs to be updated from that time period, and most people would want a newer looking kitchen. But it’s a beautiful unit, covered parking is included in the price, and there are two outdoor spaces. Sales price in 2006 was in the $670s.
@short with….the red/white carpet looks crate/barrel-ish. check out their website; also cb2.
definitely a high-end stove, so i guess that qualifies for chef’s kitchen.
i like this place. mucho.
“I have a 2300 s.f vintage unit on the market at 434 Oakdale that is now down to $499,900, and we still don’t have many lookers.”
Anne- thanks for checking in. We’ve already chattered about this property a few weeks ago. I concur that it IS a lovely property. And it even has the parking.
Do you think that because it’s a short sale- that that is scaring away buyers?
I’ll do an update on it- since I see that you just lowered the price again. Has the bank agreed to this price?
It’s hard to say how many buyers may not be looking at Oakdale or other places that are listed as short sales. Certainly the bad experiences of many buyers trying to purchase short sales scares some away. However, in the case of Oakdale, it wasn’t a matter of showings dropping off once we listed it as a short sale. I believe it’s more a function of buyers not favoring vintage overall, and the need for a little updating on this unit. It’s such a huge place with wonderful room sizes and vintage detailing. I think it’s a real value at our current price. The bank has not approved the price yet, but I’m confidant of it. Thanks.
Anne its not so much anti-vintage as it is a function of price. Half a million dollars is still ALOT of money. 2;300 sq ft is a decent amount of space but that monthly mortgage plus assessment is too high for the budget of todays buyers. Remember a $500 household sstudent loan payment reduces home purchasing power by roughly $100,000 at todays interest rates. TThink about that tthe next time some late 20’s couple strolls thru your place for a showing. I point that out everytime i visit an open house.
But HD – there ARE $500k properties selling in both LP and Lakeview. So why not this one?
I haven’t looked at the inventory (versuses the number of sales in that price range) but I’m assuming there are simply fewer buyers at that price point now (as I’ve been saying. That $500k to $800k price range is really, really difficult right now.) That doesn’t mean there aren’t buyers though. So how does a property become more competitive on the market?
I’ve been saying for awhile- that most homebuyers want a completely new and updated property. The flips/renovations are the ones selling quickly because they look all pretty and “new” inside.
But the agent admits (and our own chatter on the property pointed out) that some of the finishes are dated. So who is willing to take a chance on it for the square footage? Evidently- not as many people even at the lowered price point. And even in East Lakeview with a parking space.
As a vintage lover- I actually really like the Oakdale property- especially if I could get a deal on it. But there obviously are not be enough buyers like me.
The $500k price point is a hard sell (although I’m seeing some townhouses sell around that price.)
I think the furniture in this unit really do it a disservice. The terrible yellow carpet, the pink huge grandma couches, the glass table in the dining room are killers. Of course the fireplace looks pretty bad and dated too, but nothing that cannot be fixed. Dining room chairs are terrible. I just cannot stand this style of chairs and man people love them in this country. If only there were some simple formal looking chairs.
Kitchen is sad too. The white appliances, the sink, countertops and the green cabinets…
Then there is the master bedroom with those terrible window treatments (for heaven’s sake take them down) and remove the unsightly bedside table and lamps and whatever it is hanging on top of the bed.
Please remove the window treatments from the other bedroom too. Also that sad sad third bedroom with the checkered carpet, desk and the unsightly chair would look so much better if it were empty.
I don’t even know if photo 13 is a den or a study or what but it is just fugly.
I don’t mean to be unkind, but the way the place is staged makes it very hard for a young couple with perhaps small children (I assume that is the target market) to imagine themselves living here. Looks like Miss Havisham of 21st century lives here.
on this subject property, 504 W. Barry, it looks like something out of the show “Selling New York” where something like this unit would sell for $1,000 psf. in UWestSide Manhattan. Maybe that’s who will buy it, a transplant?
Every seller thiinks their home is worth at least $500,000. The sideline are filled with sellers who believe their home is worth $500k and they’ll hold off until a better market to get it. But there are not enough buyers in the$ 500k bracket. There are some but nowhere near enough demand to buy up the supply. Vintage is no problem, vintage sells every day. But vintage for $500,000 in this market. Every above average neighborhood is filled with homes listed for$ 500k and owners who believe that if they had to sell they would ask half a million. Yet the market is filled with buyers who look at their budget and think half a million is much too pricey, much too much of a stretch. Im so sick of every decent property (and countless other shanties) listed at $500k and up. There just aren’t enough buyers. Half a mil is still a decent chunk of change for all but the most dscrimintating of buyers.
“There just aren’t enough buyers. Half a mil is still a decent chunk of change for all but the most dscrimintating of buyers.”
HD: esp. with interest rates ready to skyrocket. The 10 yr. US Treasury which mortgages are based upon has nowhere to go but up, and zerohedge website is reporting that PIMCO is now shorting UST in its flagship bond fund!
“That $500k to $800k price range is really, really difficult right now.) ”
Sabrina, 25-33% of properties in the green zone are under contract and in lincoln park and better areas of the gold coast and lakeview, at least HALF of the properties under contract are over 500k. Don’t take my word for it – 2 minutes on redfin will prove it to you……
25-33% clio???
HD – look at 60657 and 60614 (lakeview and lincoln park) and do the numbers yourself.
“look at 60657 and 60614 (lakeview and lincoln park) and do the numbers yourself.”
On Redfin:
60614 = 1,165 listings (including under contract). 216 under contract. 105 of the u/c with last list of $500k+
60657 = 1,111 listings (including under contract). 225 under contract. 72 of the u/c with last list of $500k+
Must be the new math. Of a *ton* of new listings this morning.
On MLS (detached & attached sfh):
60614 = 1,038 listings (including under contract). 197 (19%) under contract. 97 (49%) of the u/c with last list of $500k+. 364 (43%) of the 841 listings not u/c have list of $500k+.
60657 = 980 listings (including under contract). 207 (21%) under contract. 65 (31%) of the u/c with last list of $500k+. 202 (26%) of the 773 listings not u/c have list of $500k+.
“under contract” = contingent or pending
G–
Well, the $500k+ segment is “selling” better than the under $500k in 14 and 57.
April 1 to 7 contracts signed for att & det sfh (year/$500k+/under$500k
60614
2007 12 32
2008 15 9
2009 12 18
2010 10 14
2011 15 9
60657
2007 13 56
2008 15 38
2009 10 14
2010 8 27
2011 10 25
So – things are looking pretty good…… but then again, remember that you can’t look at 1 weeks worth of data and expect to make any sense of it – you have to take 3 month blocks (at the very least) – and you will soon see that we are well into the housing recovery (in the better areas).
“you have to take 3 month blocks (at the very least) – and you will soon see that we are well into the housing recovery (in the better areas).”
How soon? You’ll be gone in July.
G, Clio —
What is the bet? Whether June detached contracts will be up/down YOY for Chicago?
And G, did you secretly make a bet with Heitman on LP price declines, and is that why he disappeared?
Cuz every once in a while, he did provide some useful info. I miss the old bugger.
Jan 8 to Apr 7 (3 months) contracts signed for att & det sfh (year/$500k+/under$500k
60614
2007 191 319
2008 171 194
2009 86 124
2010 123 177
2011 111 152
60657
2007 148 461
2008 129 314
2009 58 165
2010 80 277
2011 78 193
G – we really have to wait for the the spring market to end – we have seen a ridiculously high number of people wanting to rent and buy in the past month. Recalculate your numbers ending in may and you will see a definite increase over the past few years. Ask any realtor out there – business is CRAZY right now – there are MANY MANY people actively looking – usually they will make their offers during the month of april but definitely may. The next 8 weeks are going to be very interesting.
clio, blah blah blah. We’ve been over this already and the bet is on.
“What is the bet?”
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