The 3-Bedroom Lincoln Park Townhouse for Under $450K: 2610 N. Orchard
This 3-bedroom Lincoln Park townhouse at 2610 N. Orchard has been on the market since February 2010.
It has now been reduced $30,000 (with the most recent reduction coming just this week.)
Built in 1978, it has some unique features including exposed brick, skylights and a wood ceiling on the first floor.
The listing says the kitchen is “newer” and has white cabinets and stainless steel appliances.
2 out of the 3 bedrooms are on the third floor with the other bedroom on the second level along with a family room.
The townhouse has central air and one deeded parking space.
Is this a deal for the location?
Sonya Lea at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures here.
2610 N. Orchard #D: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1 car parking, no square footage listed
- Sold in September 1995 for $203,000
- Sold in April 1998 for $269,000
- Originally listed in February 2010 for $479,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $449,900
- Taxes of $5894
- No assessments are listed
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×13 (third floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×12 (third floor)
- Bedroom #3: 13×12 (second floor)
- Family room: 16×10 (second floor)
I think most want an attached garage, not an outside space.
There are plenty of townhomes on the market for less than this one that have that. This is a great location though
If this sells for over ~$370k, it would be a + to the CS Index at the current level.
Good location, and if one’s satisfied with Alcott, it’s just a short stroll. I like the wood ceiling and brick, and the fact that it has a sep family room on the second level. The kitchen also looks just fine.
But as David notes, a garage would be a heck of a lot better than an outdoor space, especially the depressing type of outdoor space that most townhomes in this price range have. I’m not a fan of the ground-floor-ness of these types of townhomes, for both security and water seepage reasons.
“I’m not a fan of the ground-floor-ness of these types of townhomes, for … water seepage reasons”
Wot?
Seriously, what water seepage, on a totally above grade structure?
“Seriously, what water seepage, on a totally above grade structure?” I don’t know, maybe it’s seepage per se. But I looked at a handful of townhomes like this one, and standing in the living room, looking at the flimsy windows that run to the floor, they just feel so exposed to the outdoors. Maybe there’s no actual security or water concern, but it sure feels like it. (Again, this applies to the ubiquitous 3 bd townhomes in LP/LV priced between $400 and $500k; go above the $500k range, and the places start to look a lot better, more substantial on the ground level, etc.)
“Maybe there’s no actual security or water concern, but it sure feels like it. ”
I deleted security purposely, because that’s more a feel issue, even if there is no legitimate basis (which I’m not saying there isn’t, but if one feels a given house is “insecure”, not much to do about that).
If you feel the windows are crap and liable to leak, unless the floor and walls are brand new, there should be evidence a good inspector could locate. If there’s no evidence of leakage in a 20 year old TH, there’s likely no real chance of the windows suddenly leaking (or groundwater to start seeping thru the slab, for that matter), even if they *are* crappy windows in need of replacement.
Great location – really can’t go wrong with this one. It WILL appreciate in 10 years. They aren’t making more land this close to the lake/downtown and all the “fun” of lincoln park.
Nice place. I like seeing good photography.
I’m bothered by the lack of outdoor space out back. You have those big windows looking out on a tiny backyard, that is largely taken up by garbage cans. It looks like the front yard is much larger, but there are no pictures.
We looked at two other units in this complex, as well as two similar units a little further north. Went so far with one as to bid and inspect. Although we weren’t happy with the uncovered parking, we — and our inspector — were definitely concerned about security (to the point of spending half a day researching security companies) and about the window quality. With so many windows (which I love), good windows are a must. And even tho the square-footage is not bad, the ceilings are not very high, lending a sort of being-squished sensation. The many windows do help to alleviate that. We had other issues as well that were not unique to the property (some that were RE market-based and some that seem to be characteristic of Chicago properties), so we backed out. That said, it is a fantastic location, the outdoor space in the unit we viewed was nearly perfect in size and function, and the light was wonderful. Wrong place, wrong time for us. And now that the market has sunk further since these like units sold, the owners need to lower their asking.
“I’m bothered by the lack of outdoor space out back. You have those big windows looking out on a tiny backyard, that is largely taken up by garbage cans. It looks like the front yard is much larger, but there are no pictures.”
b/c the front yard belongs to other units. There are 6 THs in the complex, and this is one of the rear ones.
Unit A sold in Jun-09 for $464 and Unit C sold in Jul-09 for $440.
“b/c the front yard belongs to other units. There are 6 THs in the complex, and this is one of the rear ones.”
Thanks for that clarification. Much as they have made the unit a lovely place, that limited outdoor space hurts. The spaces on both of those units were far better. One in particular was outstanding.
Outdoor space. Really?
You want outdoor space, buy a SFH — which is what families do because children will invariably want to play outside and don’t need that much space. Otherwise, outdoor space is at best a poorly cobbled together concept in Chicago, even with SFHs. You will not use it 6 months of the year, will only use it lightly 3 months and the other 3 could very easily be spent in public open areas instead.
“You will not use it 6 months of the year, will only use it lightly 3 months and the other 3 could very easily be spent in public open areas instead.”
This sort of space–enough for a grill and a couple of chairs–easily could get nine + months of use, for grilling and, if so inclined, tobacco consumption.
And, I think everyone short changes the part of the year that it’s nice enough to be outside, but I know I’m on the odd side of that argument.
Am I the only one who thinks this place is UGLY?
“Am I the only one who thinks this place is UGLY?”
INterior or exterior?
The outside is no prize pig, but the inside is fairly nice, if a stylistic mishmash.
anon: “And, I think everyone short changes the part of the year that it’s nice enough to be outside, but I know I’m on the odd side of that argument.”
Absolutely! People bitch and moan about Chicago weather (especially days like today), but I find that I enjoy being outdoors more than 80% of the year. I garden and utilize my balcony (with southeast exposure) from March to November.
Any living unit needs to have its own dedicated outdoor territory. Doesn’t matter if it is a deck, rooftop, yard, or courtyard, it’s just a basic necessity.
T.S. – I kind of agree with you – but you could really change the entire look of the place if you wanted. That being said, however, it WOULD be nice to showcase really nice places – it just lifts the mood on days like today.
I think these 70s townhouses are actually quite cute. I love the wood ceilings and I love that they’re small but make it easy to get away from your guests/significant other by going to another floor. I do wish the outdoor space was a hair larger, but it’s a hell of a lot more than I have now (which is none). I think the low ceilings issue is a very legit concern and there are other options with attached garages, which seem like a huge plus in winter to me, but I could deal. I can’t remember if this place is fee simple or not. I think it is, which is a huge plus to me.
I don’t know… I like the idea of a wood ceiling, but this one is so low that its kind of claustrophobic. The bathrooms are terrible, and THE GLASS BLOCK.
If they are gunning for the entry level TH market around here its priced about 100k too high currently.
Yes you can get entry level townhomes (a few currently) for around 350k in LP & LV these days that are of similar quality/amenities/etc to this one.
Obviously the pickings are scarce the closer to 350k you get but as you get closer to 450k there are a ton more, better, options than this place. 450k buys a heck of a lot more than it used to in these parts.
“I can’t remember if this place is fee simple or not. I think it is”
It is. At least per Redfin.
I’m very curious to know what comparable listings people think are a better deal than this place. I’d love to get a townhouse in LP or Lakeview, and from what I’ve seen, it’s very hard to get one with two baths for under $450K. (Very, very hard if you want fee simple.)
I’ve also come to appreciate styles from the 50s through the 70s. I remember walking around Sandberg Terrace as a kid, and being quite intrigued by the look of it all.
Bob, what have you seen that’s a better deal than this place?
“(Very, very hard if you want fee simple.)”
2 min search found 1923 N Sheffield (MLS 07611849) for 385k.
“Bob, what have you seen that’s a better deal than this place?”
For 339k you can put in an offer on a short sale TH but its not fee simple (MLS 07653138). We all know the troubles with short sales, however.
For 390k fee simple (w/HOA though, which is weird) at MLS 07622673.
60 results on Ziprealty for the criteria stated. I’m not going through all of them to find fee simple but within a couple mins found at least two mentioned above.
Bob with the “on the el tracks” listings again…
“Bob with the “on the el tracks” listings again…”
Not all are. But if you want a good example of one check out MLS 07663465. You have to see the third and last pic.
“I’d love to get a townhouse in LP or Lakeview, and from what I’ve seen, it’s very hard to get one with two baths for under $450K. (Very, very hard if you want fee simple.)”
Invite me to your first party:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1678-N-Bissell-St-60614/home/13351206
Yeah, yeah, brown line and windows only on one side. That does suck, but if 2 BRs would work, I’d seriously consider this one.
Bob, I wasn’t asking because I don’t believe there are other options. I was asking because I was curious to know what you think is a better deal. I guess it’s fair to offer up options near the el, but that seems like a pretty big dealbreaker for most people and I don’t really think you can use that to prove there are lots of better choices out there.
Danny – what about this one? Fugly exterior, but a pretty decent place for fee-simple a $419K list ($30K under 03 purchase price):
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/623-W-Drummond-Pl-60614/unit-13/home/13368783
Chi_dad, I saw that one recently and loved that staircase. My only big issue was the dining “nook”. It’s hard for me to accept that for over $400K, I don’t even get a place where a four seater dining table can fit without having to be pushed against a wall.
I guess you could make the case that this place is a better deal. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3012-N-Waterloo-Ct-60657/unit-7/home/13372336 It’s certainly similar and priced 10K lower, but I think that’s more proof that pricing isn’t changing that much for townhouses in prime LP/Lakeview locations. I’ve been looking at townhouses in this area since 2007 and I don’t feel prices have dropped much.
I really this TH on Kenmore. Great location and a lot of light. And fee simple.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3300-N-Kenmore-Ave-60657/unit-A/home/22984311
kc08, I love that place on Kenmore, too. I’ll be very surprised if it’s still for sale by Christmas. I think the finishes will appeal to a lot of buyers and the floorplan doesn’t have any big dealbreakers from what I can see.
I think having an attached garage in the city is a huge luxury. I guess you can get the same benefit from a parking garage space in a high rise, but I’d much rather have my own place with no HOA and a garage just a few steps away.
“I think having an attached garage in the city is a huge luxury.”
For the sub 250k segment its quite rare.
What do you mean when you say fee simple, that there isn’t an assessment?
Bob, I think it’s quite rare, period. There are plenty of million-dollar homes in Chicago that have the usual coach house garage on the back of the lot. Granted, I’m not going to die walking across my yard to get to my car, but who wouldn’t love to get in their car without ever stepping outside when it’s 4 degrees in January? I think the fact that you can have that plus two or three beds, two baths, no HOA, and a bit of outdoor space in Chicago’s best neighborhoods for under 500K is pretty amazing. But I’m sure some folks on here think we’re heading for LP/Lakeview townhouses selling for 350K. I just don’t buy it.
@Gescob fee simple=no HOA dues, so right no assessment
“I just don’t buy it.”
I’m already seeing it starting to happen at the closer to 400k pricepoint. 310-350k pricepoint its still outdoor assigned parking, for the most part. And yet the 310-340k pseudo-townhome’s are going to be near the el or metra tracks, too.
When you add no HOA to the mix it likely goes up closer to 450k these days, although I’m guessing as I don’t typically differentiate.
“I think it’s quite rare, period. There are plenty of million-dollar homes in Chicago that have the usual coach house garage on the back of the lot. Granted, I’m not going to die walking across my yard to get to my car, but who wouldn’t love to get in their car without ever stepping outside when it’s 4 degrees in January?”
I’ve seen some pretty regular SFH that have an enclosed walkway to the garage. I like it. It does cut down on your outdoor space but I’ve seen places that have a nice mini-mudroom setup that seemed to work well. Would be nice to get straight in the car.
“fee simple=no HOA dues, so right no assessment”
Not necessarily. There are many HOAs for fee simple properties (not many in the city, or Illinois, but it’s very common in some states).
Fee simple means you own the dirt your house sits, as opposed to owning an undivided piece of the land (and any other “common elements”) that several homes sit on.
Danny, none of the other places linked to in this thread are comparable in terms of location (assuming location matters a great deal).
The El-side listings do not merit comment.
The one on Kenmore is very nice, but it’s Lakeview, quite a ways from the park/lakefront. And what’s the elem school?
The Waterloo place is nice, and I would argue a bit nicer location than the Kenmore place, but it too is in Lakeview, and a short sale. And wouldn’t present the same window/security issues as this place?
I too saw the place on Drummond. I was willing to overlook the fact that that particular block and that particular stretch of Clark are a bit yucky, because the place has lots of space, is fee simple, has an attached garage, side by side w/d, and a deck. But it’s a bit of a dungeon, albeit I’m sure a livable one, and felt like an alley house, more than a row house.
“I’ve seen some pretty regular SFH that have an enclosed walkway to the garage.”
This is pathetic. I see the point of having a garage, maybe even a heated one, for not having to dig your car out, to slow down wear & tear and to not have to warm the car up. But if you cannot walk the 15 feet to your garage and require an enclosure its pathetic.
Fee simple has nothing to do with whether there is an HOA fee.
If you are living in a place that is attached to others, like a townhouse, even if you own the townhouse fee simple it makes sense at times to have an association with assessments to split the costs of things that everyone uses.
I live in a fee simple townhouse in LP, and pay $150 a month assessment, which covers a gardener who takes care of the flowerbeds and trees in the courtyard and along the street, Orkin coming twice a year to spray, outdoor window washing on all the units once a year, someone to inspect the roof once a year, any repairs to the roof (common element, since we are all connected), snow shoveling when needed, tuckpointing, if needed, replacement lightbulbs for the common areas, etc.
“I live in a fee simple townhouse in LP, and pay $150 a month assessment”
Would anyone define a place with a $150 month assessment as fee simple.
“Would anyone define a place with a $150 month assessment as fee simple.”
Is fee simple = you have option whether to belong to HOA?? option of what to build on your land (subject to affecting neighbors too much, but neighbors don’t have absolute veto)??
fee simple n. absolute title to land, free of any other claims against the title, which one can sell or pass to another by will or inheritance.
It’s about title not HOAs.
DZ: “Is fee simple = you have option whether to belong to HOA?? option of what to build on your land (subject to affecting neighbors too much, but neighbors don’t have absolute veto)??”
Nope. It’s about holding all of the ownership interest in the dirt and the structure on top of it, and some more technical points that would lead to many comments about how boring it is. Fundamentally, for residential, it’s fee simple, co-op, or condo, and the existence or absence of an assessment has nothing to do with the title to the property held by the owner.
kc: “Would anyone define a place with a $150 month assessment as fee simple.”
Two of us just did. And we are correct.
Fee simple is the type of ownership of the units. How they are governed or maintained is separate from that; mine is set up with an assessment, which is required of each unit owner. It’s no different than being required to pay homeowner’s association dues if you live in a single family house in a subdivision in the suburbs.
“Nope. It’s about holding all of the ownership interest in the dirt and the structure on top of it, and some more technical points that would lead to many comments about how boring it is.”
If it’s fee simple, can you still have an obligation to be part of HOA? (And if not, then isn’t what I said, more or less, possibly less, the same as what you said?)
I think it probably depends. Mine is required. Being part of an HOA is not a bad thing, though. It makes my life easier.
“If it’s fee simple, can you still have an obligation to be part of HOA?”
Yes. See Cordy’s comment re: SFH in a subdivision in the burbs. (Note that a majority of SFHs built in the last 15 years are in associations.)
I’m also curious if fee simple means you can just get out of the HOA at any time. HOAs are a nightmare. People don’t pay, people want to spend money on things you don’t want to spend money on…I just don’t see the point if you can avoid it. If it’s really cheaper to have a gardener/snow shoveler come take care of all the townhouses at once, why not just get all your neighbors to split the cost and negotiate with the person providing the service for a better rate? I guess I don’t have a good answer for the roof issue…I assumed any fee simple townhomes were built in such a way that roofs were divided and could be replaced separately.
Anyone want to weigh in on this place and whether or not you’d be willing to live this close to the Wilson stop? http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4646-N-Greenview-Ave-60640/unit-13/home/12555820
“If it’s fee simple, can you still have an obligation to be part of HOA? (And if not, then isn’t what I said, more or less, possibly less, the same as what you said?)”
As cordy and anonny said, you can be required to be part of the HOA–the obligation can “run with the land” like any other sort of restriction, and oblige any future buyer of the fee simple interest. The HOA requirement can limit your ability to do all sorts of things–it can restrict your rights to have signs in your yard, build a fence, paint your house, have a pet, just about anything that wouldn’t be discriminatory if applied in an employment context–and you can’t really fight it (except by being very active in the association), as you agreed to abide by the terms when you bought the house.
“I’m also curious if fee simple means you can just get out of the HOA at any time.”
Nope. Don’t want to be part of an HOA? Don’t buy a house that’s part of an HOA.
“Anyone want to weigh in on this place and whether or not you’d be willing to live this close to the Wilson stop?”
The Wilson-stop effect is barely noticeable there. I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t feel like uptown (not sure, really) but this is decent location from that perspective, tho I’m not wild about the b/t Clark and Ashland thing, generally, esp. in NW-Staples.
Thanks for clarifying. This is a big issue for me since I don’t really need all the space of a SFH, but I really hate HOAs. Has anyone ever heard of a group of townhouse owners agreeing to disband their HOA? Is that even possible?
“Has anyone ever heard of a group of townhouse owners agreeing to disband their HOA? Is that even possible?”
It’s definitely possible, but I don’t know of a particular instance.
“Has anyone ever heard of a group of townhouse owners agreeing to disband their HOA? Is that even possible?”
Yes, I’ve dealt with a few (I managed HOAs for a while), but all of them decided against doing so once confronted with the expenses. In general, where an HOA has both the board and a sufficient number of owners/members interested in turning the lights out on the association, they can simply pass enough changes/amendments that effectively do away with the association (e.g., do away with all rules governing painting, etc.; reduce the fees to some nominal amount needed to cover any applicable government related expenses, etc.; grant any unused land to the city for open space (if it will take it), primarily so that it can stop maintaining and insuring it, etc.).
“Anyone want to weigh in on this place and whether or not you’d be willing to live this close to the Wilson stop? http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4646-N-Greenview-Ave-60640/unit-13/home/12555820”
Not the Wilson stop neighborhood. IMHO, this area is not bad but generally uninspiring. Sort of a tweener – kind of close to Lincoln Square, kind of close to Andersonville, kind of close to Wrigley. Throw in being part of a gated community and I think living here would be fairly mind-numbing.
Chi_dad, that was my thought as well. The price kind of sucked me in and I love the huge roof deck, but I think I’d rather spend the $420K or so for the place on Kenmore or Drummond and be able to walk to almost everything I could want.
“Has anyone ever heard of a group of townhouse owners agreeing to disband their HOA? Is that even possible?”
We live in a small townhouse community that disbanded its HOA before we arrived. We’re all fee simple too.