The Claude Seymour House in Buena Park Comes Back on the Market: 817 W. Hutchinson
The Claude Seymour House, a 6-bedroom historic mansion at 817 W. Hutchinson in the Buena Park neighborhood of Uptown returned to the market recently after briefly being listed last March.
Originally listed for just 2 weeks in March 2011 at $5.195 million, it came back on the market reduced to $4.995 million.
The Elite Street column in the Chicago Tribune recently highlighted it:
The asking price for the 16-room Claude Seymour House in Buena Park has been reduced to $4.995 million from $5.195 million.
Designed by Prairie-style architect George Washington Maher and completed in 1913 for jewelry wholesaler Seymour, the more than 12,000-square-foot mansion has six bedrooms, four full baths, two half baths, leaded stained-glass windows, a grand mahogany staircase, three fireplaces, mahogany millwork throughout, an eat-in kitchen and a coach house atop a two-car garage.
The property has 136 feet of frontage and a wraparound yard.
The mansion easily is the highest-priced listing in its area, with the next-most-expensive listing in its ZIP code clocking in at just under $3 million.
The house is “loaded with original details,” said listing agent Jennifer Ames, of Coldwell Banker.
“The sellers made it work for family living without tampering with the original integrity of the home.”
The house is on 5 city lots measuring 136×140.
All 6 bedrooms are on the third level.
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and what look like stone counter tops.
Has the upper bracket market improved enough to sustain a $5 million price point in the Hutchinson Historic District?
Jennifer Ames at Coldwell Banker has the listing. See the pictures here.
817 W. Hutchinson: 6 bedrooms, 4 baths, 2 half baths, 12000 square feet, 2 car garage, studio
- Sold in November 1993 (no price listed)
- Originally listed in March 2011 for just 2 weeks at $5.195 million
- Re-listed in October 2011 for $4.995 million
- Taxes of $20,579
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 19×19 (third floor)
- Bedroom #2: 16×14 (third floor)
- Bedroom #3: 17×12 (third floor)
- Bedroom #4: 14×11 (third floor)
- Bedroom #5: 10×15 (third floor)
- Bedroom #6: 12×20 (third floor)
These sellers obviously don’t really want to sell…… Though the house is beautiful, I can’t see this selling in this location for much more than 2-2.5 million. Even in Winnetka, Hinsdale or Oak Brook, a house like this wouldn’t sell for much more than 3 million. Good lord – even in the Gold Coast, this place likely wouldn’t get much more than 3.5 million.
Clio:
WHile I think there’s a limited market for a house like this, in a location like this, and agree that it won’t sell for this price (or even close!), I do think there will be someone who appreciates this place for its unique beauty & history (and amount of land) and think it will go for high 3’s.
I think your suggestion that this would go for 3.5 mm in the Gold Coast ignores the 6 lots 12000 sq. ft., historic details, restoration, etc. I’m pretty sure a mansion with the quality of historic details like this, on a SINGLE lot & with 5000 square feet of space would go for 3.5 million.
JAH – I actually totally agree with you – the house IS beautiful, the lot IS wonderful, etc. – the same house in the Gold Coast WOULD sell for 3.5-4 million, WOULD sell for 3-4 million in Oak Brook, Hinsdale, WInnetka, etc. HOWEVER, in its current location, it will be very unlikely for it to sell for more than 2.5-3 million. People who can afford more will NOT live in this area (they will either choose Astor st area, or Hinsdale, Winnetka, LF, OB, etc.).
this place is beautiful.
I more or less agree with Clio that this house at this time in its current location probably will go for right under $3 million (let’s say $2.95M for kicks). That said, strangely enough I think Clio is underestimating prices in GC or ELP; this same home, with all that land, in either of those locations probably would go for $7 million or more. But as Clio says, most people who can afford this house will not want to live in this neighborhood.
Over the long run (12+ years), if this place can be bought for $3 million or less it may turn out to be an excellent deal. I believe that Buena Park and Uptown more generally have to gentrify sooner or later (unless Chicago simply implodes like Detroit), and when they do this place will become much more attractive to the very wealthy.
Detroit is the new Brooklyn. The furniture in this place is atrocious. $2.5M.
Great house.. I hope whoever buys it doesn’t chop it up and turn it into condos or apartments.
How much would this type of house go for in Kenilworth or Glencoe?
“How much would this type of house go for in Kenilworth or Glencoe?”
3-4 million
The city tax system is sure out of whack. Taxes on a 12,000 SF mansion are $20,000 a year, while the sucker who buys a 2 BR condo above a storefront on west Webster pays $7,000. Seems like the first should have far higher taxes and the second should have far lower.
The house is beautiful and someone with this money won’t be all that impacted by the grime a few blocks north. People dropping 3m aren’t walking to Wilson, they are getting in one of the luxury cars in their garage and hopping on LSD for an easy ride downtown. The schools aren’t an issue either, private is a given. This will go for 3.3-3.5
If you were wealthy, why would you live in this neighborhood? Makes no sense, so won’t go anywhere close to 3.
There are obviously a million better neighborhoods, both city and suburban, all your friends live somewhere else, amenities are few, and neighborhood goes from ok to sketch very quickly.
What does ‘sketch’ mean?
I disagree AUP. People like to live in a neighborhood they can walk around and talk to their neighbors. I cannot see why someone wealthy would like to live in a place that they can only come and go to using their car.
That being said I don’t know how this neighborhood really is. Is it unsafe or just not trendy?
sketch = poor black folks, duh
Buena Park is far from unsafe and people don’t move to HP or OB to walk around and talk to the neighors, lol. This house is close to the lake, LV/LP destinations and a quick shot downtown. When it comes down to it, people just don’t want to live anywhere near black folks, plain and simple.
I would pick the same house in Kenilworth. I question whether people really want to talk around and talk to their neighbors. I would much rather keep to myself and not deal with random strangers.
I agree with miumiu and osito – people move because of the neighborhood – not the house. Maybe the best use for this place would be as a headquarters for a non-profit or touchy feely type of business/museum, etc.
‘sketch = poor black folks, duh’
Got it. I assume this is bad. So is it the poor or black or both that is a problem for some people?
“How much would this type of house go for in Kenilworth or Glencoe?”
There isn’t really a comp for this in KW since this residence is far larger than building codes allow for or allowed for when it was platted. The only comparable home that could be as large is the Percy estate and that traded for north of $8M as a tear down.
Maher built plenty of homes as nice, just not as big. I’d saw $2M for one is good condition in KW, but the finishes will be less updated.
I drove by this place 2 weeks ago to show my girlfriend the best of Buena Park. She knew nothing of the area, and we live fairly close to it. The house and block are beyond amazing. Then, on the way back, we were brought back to the current reality of Uptown.
We were forced to sit thru a green light as several thugs decided to walk diagonally across the intersection at a snail’s pace, stopping traffic. It was a tragic reminder of what Uptown was been allowed to become over the last 30 years. From mansions to shelters.
I am REALLY hoping for a revival of this area. It has so much to offer. That said, it would take a rather brave soul to raise their rich family here. And $5 million seems like a pipe dream.
Aud, AUP, it isn’t a black and white issue as much as it’s a section 8, SRO, shelter issue, IMO.
TB,
Uptown has been like that for far more than 30 years. I remember it being a dump in the 1970s, and its descent actually began long before that, probavly in the 1940s. As long as the neighborhood remains the site of multiple SRO hotels and Section 8 high-rise buildings, it’s not going to change.
“When it comes down to it, people just don’t want to live anywhere near black folks, plain and simple.”
Chicago is as segregated as they come in this county, unfortunately.
It has changed a lot in the last 10 years. For the better.
This place has outlived it usefulness as a mansion. No one who could afford this place would live in this neighborhood. Just not going to happen.
I could see someone coverting this into luxury townhomes or condos and it would probably find a market.
Uptown turned itself in to SRO hell and until the density of the section 8/sro stuff is reduced, the neighborhood will continue to struggle to gentrify.
how about someone convert the mansion into SRO/Section 8 housing!
You people are nuts. Most of Uptown is very nice. A small section around Broadway and Wilson is not.
Highest residential real estate tax bill for a Chicagoland (Winnetka) single-family house (lakefront mansion) is around $300,000. Which connected family owns this property? This mansion’s $20,600 tax bill is frankly offensively low to the average Cook County taxpayer – 5 lots, 12,000 SF, and a $5 million asking price… someone should send listing to the Cook County Assessor for verification, ASAP.
Regarding its Uptown location, I note the fence ringing the lawn. These owners aren’t strolling the neighborhood, worrying about crime at Montrose and Sheridan; they’re driving their luxury cars through their gated driveway to their alarm-controlled remote-operated garage door.
Commodities trader. Original mortgage was $825,000 but today the primary mortgage $3,000,000 from 2006; now granted that might be a LOC, who knows, but there is also a $375k HELOC on the property from the same date in 2006
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
10/12/2006 10/18/2006 MORTGAGE $2,999,999.00
I had a trader in my office a few years ago who made $400,000 a year every year for a decade and somehow managed to spend every penny of it including the money he was supposed to set aside to pay his taxes.
“I had a trader in my office a few years ago who made $400,000 a year every year for a decade and somehow managed to spend every penny of it including the money he was supposed to set aside to pay his taxes.”
….uhhhh that isn’t too hard to do – 400k isn’t as much as people think.
“….uhhhh that isn’t too hard to do – 400k isn’t as much as people think.”
It’s plenty but for some people it’s just never enough.
“….uhhhh that isn’t too hard to do – 400k isn’t as much as people think.”
Yes it is. You just can’t live above your means. Whatever those means are. That’s like MC Hammer saying “33m isn’t as much as people think.”
$400K is a lot.
vlahos – not as much as you think…… i think you have to start consistently make over 600-700k to really start enjoying/experiencing the material luxuries in life – anything lower than this is actually not that much (and I am not trying to be sarcastic or obnoxious – it is just the truth).
$400k is good money but it ain’t rolling a Ferrari and flying private g5 money.
I can see how folks go broke after making $20-$30 million. Most entertainers and athletes who make that kind of money comes from pretty pathetic financial backgrounds and really have no idea of how fast that money disappears.
start with $30 million…
$15 million to Uncle Sam. so $15 million left.
$5 mill on crib. $10 million left
$1 million in sports cars. $9 million left.
Agent. $3 million (10%), so $6 million left.
Baby’s Mama. $1 million. So $5 million left.
Loans to broke ass family members and cousins. $1 million. $4 million left.
Entourage and poppin bottles in VIP. $500k. So $3.5 million left.
Upkeep on $5 million mcMansion – furniture, lawn, pool, etc. Say $500k. so $3 million left.
Bad business investment. $1 million. So $2 million left.
Financial Advisor Skimming off the Top. $1 million. $1 million left.
Last million left. Oops. A little slippage and a 2nd baby mama.
Now you are broke. Wash, rinse, repeat and you have the typical NFL/NBA player.
I don’t make $400K and I enjoy life quite well, thank you.
$400k is upper middle class if you live in a major metro area. It is rich in middle america though. $400k is just enough to save for retirement, have a nice place, maybe get a new car every couple of years, and private school for kids.
It is hardly living it up.
Yep, on the verge of poverty.
Most people purchase large residences out of (typically) one-time liquidity events such as sale or business, phantom stock payout, large bonus in a good year, sale of trading seats, etc. By large, I mean anything over $3M.
High levels of current income — be it 400k or 600k — are not the path to victory. You just pay more in taxes. It is an inefficient way to build wealth, and many high current income earners build no wealth at all (profligate professional athletes for example).
I love Maher homes and this one has been updated beautifully! I agree $5 million is awful high for Uptown, but I certainly hope this home finds a buyer regardless of the neighborhood. I’d much rather have this in the city than live anywhere north of Evanston or west of River Forest (Oak Brook, Lake Forest, etc.).
Russ – very funny and VERY true.
JMM – very true. normal people who make up to 600k really aren’t that rich. Most of the people I know are in this group – sure they enjoy a pretty nice life (1 million dollar house, a couple of nice 40-50k cars, yearly vacations to mexico and private schools for the kids) – but they, by no means, are rich. They have to still work, still have a mortgage, still have to look around for bargains, etc. Usually these guys retire with about 2 million in the bank and a paid-off house (still not enough to “live it up”).
“$400k is upper middle class if you live in a major metro area.”
Disagree on that. The only exception is New York and perhaps SF, but many homes in SF are bought through equity payouts on options. Very, very few people make over $400k on their own, especially straight salary. Dual income maybe, but that eventually ends if you want a family to spend the $ on.
The entire town of Park Ridge is upper middle class and I would be 400k wage earners are less than 2%. That does not reconcile.
Often, the ability to earn $400,000 comes and goes just like the money does. What I’ve learned is that if you have a good run you better invest it wisely because you might not get the opportunity to make that sort of money again.
Today in court I met a former partner at a biglaw firm. granted he wasn’t equity partner only income partner but hell he was probably doing pretty well for himself until 2009 and now he’s solo and his own boss making a fraction of what he used to. He was laid off and since he hadn’t time to develop his own book of biz being a newish partner he was one of the first out and more or less unhirable. Another fellow Gen X’er getting the shaft this recession.
“Russ on October 24th, 2011 at 11:28 am
$400k is upper middle class if you live in a major metro area. It is rich in middle america though. $400k is just enough to save for retirement, have a nice place, maybe get a new car every couple of years, and private school for kids.
It is hardly living it up.”
“Even in Winnetka, Hinsdale or Oak Brook, a house like this wouldn’t sell for much more than 3 million.”
clio, you’re wrong about that. This house is 12,000 sq. ft. You are thinking about houses in those burbs that are smaller than this one. If you price this (even in Oak Brook, Winn, Hins, etc.) at $400 psf, this sells for $4.8 million, even at the really low price of $300 psf, it would be $3.6 million which is above your ridiculous $3 million figure.
“$400k is just enough to save for retirement, have a nice place, maybe get a new car every couple of years, and private school for kids.”
Completely disagree. (Unless you live in NYC).
Usually someone with a $400,000 income is a partner at a professional firm, and they usually have some sort of private pension type of system or investment in the firm which pays them during retirement; along with their 401(k), regular savings, house, etc. It’s a nice lifestyle, probably better than 99% of the people on this planet. The equiv of being an earl of a minor estate in the late 19th century. some land, some income, some family money, but you can’t really live it up or else you go broke; but you can still afford to be idle and also educate your children at the finest universities
“Chicago is as segregated as they come in this county, unfortunately.”
“It has changed a lot in the last 10 years. For the better.”
Dream on. The liberals, white Obama voters, on the Northside like their self-segregation and little groupthink enclave.
Family shattered after raid, home loss
“Out of the blue on a summer morning, longtime [black] residents lose what they had thought was their good standing among [white liberal/Obama voter] neighbors”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-met-schmich-1002-20111002,0,7228373.column?page=1
Lincoln Park is among the wealthiest and whitest (85 percent white, only 5 percent black) neighborhoods in Chicago. Unsurprisingly, Barack Obama carried Lincoln Park 3 to 1. The Harrises lived just seven blocks west of Gazillionaires’ Row, where Hyatt Hotels heiress Penny Pritzker, Obama’s campaign finance chairwoman, spent $7 million to buy five lots for her new fortress-like mansion.
$400K doesn’t get you much.
$400k is a lot of money and well above upper middle class (outside of Manhattan). Sure you can always spend an unlimited amount on housing, but just because 400k isn’t enough to buy a $2M estate, its definitely in the top 1%.
Don’t use reasoning on CC, oakparkdude.
you guys don’t know wtf you are talking about. The data that is out there is false. Most people under-report the amount of money they have and the amount they make – good lord, if you look at my tax returns, you would get a totally different idea that what is the truth. Look at the politician’s income tax returns. Daley making 150-300k/year – ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! People hide money (legally and illegally – also there are many ways people make money that are not reported on taxes). You guys really are clueless
“now granted that might be a LOC”
hd: what % are LOCs vs. actual mortagages, in your opinion? have a guess??
Love this micro-hood of Buena Park. But at that price point…wouldn’t a big ole house on Hawthorne east of Broadway in Lakeview be a better value?
And yes, upper middle and upper class have actual meanings, 400k is well above mean/median income in all of Chicago’s most expensive census tracts and is solidly an upper class income. It’s only not upper class to douchers who brag about their income incessantly on blogs.
““$400k is just enough to save for retirement, have a nice place, maybe get a new car every couple of years, and private school for kids.”
Completely disagree. (Unless you live in NYC).”
It all depends how many kids the family have, how they spend their money and all. For a family of 4, 400K is more than sufficient to live a very nice life. It won’t include private jets and all for sure but will be more than enough.
“Most people like it that way.”
That’s what I think also. The proof is there. Most white Obama voters who are so-called “liberal”, live in almost exclusively white areas, like LP, which is probably more racially segregated than even Bridgeport, and the LP crowd likes to keep it that way.
By “sketchy” neighborhood, we don’t necessarily mean an nabe with poor minority people.
The crime and blight is what is dragging this area down.
There has been a shooting almost EVERY WEEK in the area bounded by Broadway, Montrose, Lawrence, and Sheridan.
You can’t escape from crime and grime in your neighborhood just by cowering in your mansion on a semi-private street. You have to drive through it when gangs are standing on opposite corners chanting at each other, and you have to look at it. Friends from other parts of town are afraid to come visit you and you can’t let even kids of junior-high age out to do things like shop, or walk to school, or ride their bikes. You are always nervous and you are more likely to be the victim of a carjacking or home invasion. It sort of ruins that great mansion for you after awhile.
If one snoops around HD-style looking up classmates etc. on ccrd, I’ve noticed that those with $400K jobs all still have huge mortgages (albeit on nice suburban houses), and I’m talking about people in their late 40s & early 50s. Some even have multi-million mortgages, hence my Q about whether it was usually some sort of LOC for other purposes, or a real mortgage. If they have these large mortgages on primary residences, then how can they afford the vacation home too?
I must be severally underpaid as I cannot fathom what kind of job a person has — outside of doctor or lawyer — that makes that kind of bread.
“400k isn’t as much as people think”
cribchatter.com – where people in the top 1% are still somehow middle class.
“cribchatter.com – where people in the top 1% are still somehow middle class.”
There was an article in the NYT a few years ago about this phenomena, where people in the top 1% (docs, lawyers, etc) are looking over at their social peers in the top 0.1% (finance types) and feeling increasingly poor.
Yeah, the 1%-ers are doing way better than the median family, but they don’t compare themselves to those poor schmoes. All they know is that those damn banksters are increasingly wealthy and outbidding the docs and lawyers for houses, vacations, private schools, etc.
HD:, exactly. I am not saying it isn’t good money, but it ain’t “rich” in terms of how people think of what it means to be rich. It is very comfortable but you aren’t living a life of frivolity and no worry. Most of the people in that income bracket work extremely hard and give up quite a bit in terms of work life balance.
JMM, I bet that 2% refers to the newer and younger residents of those communities who probably have higher incomes on average than the older residents. They also tend to have a higher cost basis in those communities. A 55 year old neighbor paid say $200k for their house 25 years ago versus a 36 year old new law firm partner buying on the same street and now paying $700k. The 55 year old is nearing retirement and has a pension paying say $75k annually while the new law firm partner is making $400k.
This is why have HH incomes averages/medians tend to lag the actual price of a typical new home in those communities.
Icarus, accept it, you are poor.
“Icarus, accept it, you are poor.”
why do you think i have to ask people for half their sandwich
http://cribchatter.com/?p=11735#comment-194351
LOL!
$400K is a working stiff!!!!!!!
BUD
What about hard work?
GEKKO
What about it? You work hard. I’ll
bet you stayed up all night
analyzing that dog you bought. And
where’d it get you?… my father
worked hard too like an elephant
pushing electrical supplies. And he
dropped dead at 49 with a heart
attack and a tax bill and the bank
pissed on his grave and took the
house; my mom ended up working in a
dish factory… Wake up pal, if
you’re not inside you’re outside.
And I’m not talking a $400,000 a
year working Wall Street stiff
flying first class and being
“comfortable”, I’m talking rich
pal, rich enough to fly in your own
jet, rich enough not to waste time,
50-100 million, a player Bud — or
nothing. You had what it takes to
let through my door. Next question:
You got what it takes to stay…??
The car stopping in traffic. Horns honking.
GEKKO
(pointing)
Look out there…
THEIR POV — a STREET CORNER. A richly dressed EXECUTIVE
stands at the curb next to the BUM with a shopping cart
filled with garbage.
GEKKO (O.S.)
You really think the difference
‘tween this guy and that guy is
luck? Mohammed, pull over.
The car pulls over. Gekko checks his watch, pulls out the
telephone.
GEKKO
…when it comes to money, sport,
everybody’s of the same religion.
Or should be… Hope you don’t mind
if I let you off here, I’m late for
a meeting. Good bye, nice knowing you.
EXT. PARK AVENUE – TWLIGHT
The CHAUFFEUR lets Bud out the door… Bud looks back at Gekko.
BUD
All right, Mr. Gekko…you got me.
“There was an article in the NYT a few years ago about this phenomena, where people in the top 1% (docs, lawyers, etc) are looking over at their social peers in the top 0.1% (finance types) and feeling increasingly poor.”
That’s right on.
The OWS folks have it right, but their math is wrong. The top 1%, in a country of 300 million, total 3 million people. There aren’t 3 million people of TRUE influence & power in this nation, so yes, they are looking at the top 1/10th of 1%, which at 300,000 might still need to be cut more. Maybe top 1/100th of 1%??
If all goes well I should be making that kind of bread in about 10-15 years… we’ll see. I couldn’t imagine SPENDING that kind of money, thats for sure. I guess i’m a much more frugal person than most here as I wouldn’t take 20k vacations, spend $400 on dinners, or waste 100k on cars or a million bucks on a house twice the size of my needs.
I mean, 400k a year assuming zero passive income, take out 50% for taxes, insurance, 401k, savings, etc. is still 16k a month after all that… say 8k for “living expenses” are you really gonig to spend 250 a day every day for a year of discretionary expenditures? You got a shopping problem!
Rich to me is someone who doesn’t need to work. The type of person I am imagining works just because he/she finds it interesting. I remember a teacher at my school who didn’t take a salary. He was wealthy and just taught because that was what he wanted to do.
$400k is still working class, although that is far more than I earn (or will ever earn). This type of person still likely has to work and often works very long hours for that money.
I would MUCH rather win $1,000 a week for life (saw an ad for a lottery game with this payout), than work hard and make 400k a year. For that matter, if I made that much money, I would save almost all of it and then retire and live off the interest.
Right, $400K is definitely working class. You can barely afford a dumpy place in the GZ.
I live near here and this neighborhood is fine. You can walk to the park and the lake and belive it or not, all the people in the huge houses around here are out walking around. I stroll with my kids here a few times a week. They’re not walking around at Broadway and Wilson (gang war there), but there is still plenty of walkability here and tons of rich* people living here. *However you want to define rich.
PS This is my favorite house in the city. It is stunning.
Are you a ZOMBIE, sidelinedbuyer?
Russ has got it right. Most people making that much money work hard and have to make sacrifices. In that sense Jenny is right too that they are not rich in terms of not having to work.
Yeah, they’re just rich in terms of having a lot of money.
Believe me, I know this income level very well – you don’t really feel rich until you are making 600+ consistently. Sure you are well off – but no way in hell could you (or should you) even afford a 2 million dollar house with anything less than that income. Once you get 750k plus per year, you can start having some fun….
This page is so full of stupid I don’t know where to begin.
Yes, uptown has rough parts but the Hutchinson street historic district is a millionaire’s row. I challenge you to find comparable lots and mansions any closer to the cultural attractions of Lake View / the northside in general. Sure 5 Million is probably highly unrealistic but those of you talking about converting this house into something else really need to get a clue.
For the rest of you arguing that 400k is not a lot of money, seriously, shut the hell up. Yes, we know that 400k/year doesn’t get you on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous but you are decidedly wealthy. Anyone who refutes that is either a total out of touch moron or someone who is trying to put on airs and appear especially removed from the dreary lives the rest of us lead (i.e. CLIO).
Welcome to cribchatter Andy!
Clio, even if a household make a million dollar still there are things they cannot afford, say a 20 mil. dollar house, buying the latest sports car, having a private jet, chef, 20 servants, a massage therapist at home, etc…, but 1 mil dollar is a huge income.
I would think that a family of 4 can live nicely with 150K income in Chicago. Now at anything over 300K they would live a pretty comfortable life as they can perhaps hire more help, have better school options and so on. Now if one wants a lot of luxury or desires to live outside of ones means, there is always something to desire or waste your money at.
I sometimes think people have forgotten how to be happy and think life is all about having more and more money.
“Believe me, I know this income level very well – you don’t really feel rich until you are making 600+ consistently. Sure you are well off – but no way in hell could you (or should you) even afford a 2 million dollar house with anything less than that income. Once you get 750k plus per year, you can start having some fun….”
Its attitudes like this that make me cringe and embarrassed to be part of the 1%.
oakparkdude – it is a LOT higher than 1%!!!!
“oakparkdude – it is a LOT higher than 1%!!!!”
That’s awesome. I’m very happy for you. Do you brag about your wealth to your patients?
Re: 400k income – honestly, people, when you break it down, it isn’t as glamorous as you think.
Let’s take a 400k income:
150k in income taxes
85k in mortgage/real estate (on a 1 million house)
15k in improvements/reserves
25k in utilities/lawncare/poolcare/flowers/decorations/phone, etc.
10k to save for a car (two cars – each 50k, kept for 10 years)
10k car maint.
15k (children activities – 3 kids)
30k (10k put away for each kid’s college)
10k (2 vacations – 5 people)
50k (groceries, clothes, beauty salon, presents, parties, movies, entertainment, computers, TVs)
This leaves nothing left to save for retirement or a rainy day. Redecorating? – forget about it. New sports car? Forget it.
But yes, you CAN live a good life (as long as that income keeps up ..
oh – and don’t even think about sending your kids to a private school for high school/junior high – there is nothing left in the budget for that!!
On the other hand, I know several people who make 400k and manage to save 100-150k/year – but these people are hardly living an enviable life (ie, 300-400k house, 1 POS car, vacation to wisconsin dells)
CLIO, it what world do people who (i) spend $2k a month on expenses such as “lawncare/poolcare/flowers/decorations,” and (ii) purchase two $50k luxury cars, keep such cars for “10 years”? I suppose it’s the world in which such people spend $100k over that same 10-year period on car maint?
anonny, you stupid ass – look at the assessments of some of the buildings you love in your precious east lincoln park – they are 2000/month.
Also, in terms of the cars, not many people keep their cars for 10 years – usually 5…… so play with the numbers a little and you will see that I am not far off…..
Andy on October 24th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
This page is so full of stupid I don’t know where to begin.
Quote of the day!
CLIO: “You guys really are clueless”
You proudly admit to underreporting your income (not paying your taxes) on a pubic message board. This is a federal crime. Despite your claims to education at this nations finest Universities, you really are not that bright.
Stupid shit like that makes me seriously doubt your “story”.
Clio forgot some expenses:
20K – Payments and maintenance of Veronica’s pony
3.5K – Steady growth of the collection of leather-bound books
3K – Wood oil costs (how else to keep the shine on your rich mahogany furniture?)
5K – Upkeep on the top hat and monocle
22K – Buying the wife the latest fashions to keep up with the Jones’ next door
You call yourself rich, clio? Show me the monocles…
“Also, in terms of the cars, not many people keep their cars for 10 years – usually 5…… so play with the numbers a little and you will see that I am not far off…..”
Yes, yes…clearly everyone else is out of touch. Please, clio, tell us how things work in the real world.
CLIO, take a deep breath. Please read the sentence you wrote:
“10k to save for a car (two cars – each 50k, kept for 10 years)
10k car maint.”
In response to my questioning your contention that people buy $50k cars and then spend $5k/year maintaining the car for 10 years, you then wrote:
“in terms of the cars, not many people keep their cars for 10 years – usually 5…… so play with the numbers a little and you will see that I am not far off”
Gotta correct you on the cost of the pony there, TFT.
It’s more like a minimum of $50k to acquire a suitable Welsh pony jumper and about $1500 a month to pay for board and training, depending on the trainer. Then there are show fees, trailering fees, grooming fees, well. You get the picture.
Now you are broke. Wash, rinse, repeat and you have the typical NFL/NBA player
That was funny!
“The entire town of Park Ridge is upper middle class and I would be 400k wage earners are less than 2%. That does not reconcile.”
Yeah but half of them bought their homes 20+ years ago…
“You proudly admit to underreporting your income (not paying your taxes) on a pubic message board.”
You are the biggest moronic idiot who can’t understand a simple concept like income taxes. When you look at someone’s net income, it is almost ALWAYS lower than there true income. This is because of things called “deductions” – most multi-millionaires and billionaires have millions/hundreds of thousands, etc. in deductions so report very little to no income. Even regular people have a lot of deductions and so their net income (which is what is used for these demographic classifications) are really falsely lower than what people really make. Hell, I know business people that make over a million a year yet report little to no income. and it is all legal, you fucking idiot.
The whole point was that there are a LOT more people making a LOT more than you think. You cannot trust the federal data to be true – it’s not – exactly for the reasons I stated above.
“I know several people who make 400k and manage to save 100-150k/year – but these people are hardly living an enviable life (ie, 300-400k house, 1 POS car, vacation to wisconsin dells)”
Ha. And you called everyone else clueless?
“Usually someone with a $400,000 income is a partner at a professional firm, and they usually have some sort of private pension type of system or investment in the firm which pays them during retirement”
I disagree with that statement. Most of my high earning friends and I are small business owners. There is NO private pension as we fund that ourselves. Don’t forget to add self employment income, the added stress of running a business, write offs from deadbeat customers, and all the fun of dealing with employees. It is not always easy street.
In return we are awarded some additional discretionary income. SInce I travelled for work 50 weeks per year for almost a decade I have had my fill of the Marriott. Now when I go on vacation to relax I tend to overspend on great hotels and destinations. Anyone have any tips on taking a 2 year old on a 9 hour flight? That trip is coming up soon.
Travel is one of my favorite splurges. I own a 7 year old car that I assure you will not get replaced for another year or possibly even two. Our home is awesome but fits well within our budget. My monthly mortgage and the property tax is less than 15% of our monthly gross.
Yes we make a great deal of money and live very well. Japonais, Trotters, G&TG, and other great places are on our once a month fine dining list. But in the end the reason that we can splurge on incredible travel and great food is that we do not overspend on housing and cars. Those expense will suck the wallet dry for many individuals.
I’d rather have fun and enjoy life than to be caught up in a mortgage and auto cost structure that needs 40% or more of my monthly income to support.
And that my CC friends is the real message of this thread. You can have some level of fun and splurge on the things you like at almost any income level if you control your hard costs on the big items.
clio once again you prove what a stupid troll you are
Clio, I was looking over your projected thumbnail budget for a family with an income of $400K a year, and it appalls me.
NOBODY who makes $400K a year, unless he is hit with medical costs his insurance won’t cover, has any excuse in the world for not saving more money than this.
Things like salon treatments, expensive foods, restaurants, the latest expensive clothes, new luxury cars, and other things on that ‘budget’ are not necessities, far from it. Sensible people who value their financial stability cut that crap in order to have money put away and/or invested in good, solid investments (to the extent that there is such a thing these days).
This is how some people are broke no matter how much money they earn, while other people amass fairly impressive assets on less than $100K a year. Sometimes MUCH less. I have relatives who each inherited substantial sums of money ($50,000 and $100,000 in 1965) and who never made less than $200K a year trailing 20 years who ended up BROKE at the age of 65, and had personal and business bankruptcies before that, in spite of no major personal catastrophe. They simply could not brake their spending and were possessed of an enormous sense of entitlement to the “good life.”
I also know of at least 4 blue-collar workers who have each amassed a net worth of $900K or more, without even working overtime. While $900K to $1.5M in Chicago 2-flats and 3-flats with positive cash flow is not a vast fortune, and I’m sure a pittance compared with what the people in your crowd have, it is still a substantial chunk of money that most people in this society would be extremely glad to have. These guys did it by buying their properties very cautiously and making sure they’d run the numbers (expenses vs rent) very thoroughly and made allowances for things to go wrong, but most of all, they saved 30% of their take-home pay. They ate cheap food, bought clothes rarely or at thrift stores, drove 10-year old cars, made every dime count. Another couple I know, people my age, a DINK couple each half of whom has a moderate-pay managerial job paying perhaps $60K, paid their first house, a little ranch in the south suburbs, off by age forty, and in the early 90s, had a $250K house built there for which they paid cash. They have additional funds set aside for retirement.
I envy these people. I envy them much more than I envy folks who make $400K a year yet are in debt up to their hairlines and are frantically racing in place, and due to fall over the cliff when one loses a job. I know people like this, too- met a nice FORMER $400K a year executive while “prospecting” for clients as a young stockbroker many moons ago. He had a house in Lake Forest worth about $1M at that time. Well, and he lost the $400K a year job. Couldn’t find one that paid even $300K… then $200k… then $100K… finally got one that paid $45K a year and he was glad to get it. Needless to say he and his family lost their house and everything else they had. He had never, ever saved money. Sigh.
The hypothetical $400K a year family that finds itself spending up to every dime needs to sit down, and cut each spending category by at least 25% to make room for substantial savings. It’s hard, I know, especially when you have slaved 14 hours a day for that income. You feel entitled to your luxuries. Well, feeling entitled doesn’t help you with your finances.
clio… a little sensitive aren’t we? You should be thanking me for pointing out your breech of basic street-smarts. Posting publicly about one’s own tax-avoidance is a no-no. Just don’t do it. Realize your error, and don’t attack the messenger pointing out your fuckup.
But whatever. I actually like reading your posts, regardless of the obvious fakeness of your online character.
Legal tax avoidance is just fine. Tax EVASION is not fine. Tax avoidance is using every angle to law allows you, while evasion means using illegal means, which of course you should not talk about even to your pet rock.
I think Clio is using every legal loophole he can and he should just be careful to not be too aggressive about it. That is OK.
But I wouldn’t be too smug, because maybe one day some honest politicians (oxymoron alert)might actually make good on their promises and give us a flat tax with NO exemptions NO deductions NO exceptions.
“You feel entitled to your luxuries. Well, feeling entitled doesn’t help you with your finances”
True point Laura but life is always a balance. My mother was a depression kid born in 1929 and now has a great financial cushion considering my parents income over the years. She was a school teacher and stay at home mom. Dad was a engineer for the Board of Education. They saved well, invested ok, and were thrifty. In the end she was and is quite happy. I just wish that she had spent more of HER money on things that she enjoyed when she was young enough to enjoy them.
Now she is old and her memory is going. She is quite pleased to be leaving my sister and me a nice inheritance however I would have rather she had enjoyed more of her savings on things for herself.
Two words: hedonic adaptation
“Anyone have any tips on taking a 2 year old on a 9 hour flight? ”
Pretend your child is under 2 years old, tell them he/she is 18 months. Is your kid under 24 lbs.?
The airlines offer “infants” a bassinet that attaches to the wall right behind first-class, and if you’re lucky maybe he/she can fit in it, and sleep 4-5 hours of the flight. I suppose this is all for naught, and I just thought of the fact that you’ll have a passport and be unable to fudge the age. kids under 2 fly free I think also.
JP3: We took our two-year-old (in diapers) on a two-week road-trip through England, and had a great time. We stayed in small hotels, looking for historic charm, indoor pool, and roll-away cot. We avoided chains, but didn’t do B&Bs. No problem whatsoever re: diapers, milk, kid-friendly food, etc. England has an upscale pizza chain (Pizza Express?) nicer than California Pizza Kitchen. Hotel staff welcoming to our son. We bought a folding stroller when we arrived, and left it at the airport when we left. We rented a subcompact SUV rather than sedan. We took a night non-stop flight to London; he slept for most of flight. Bring comfort toy/object, diapers, juice cup, blanket, change of clothes (diapers if necessary), and something chewy (gum?) for ears during descent. On daytime flight back, well there’s video monitor in the back of the airplane seat and that kept him entertained.
We also took hime as a preschooler on roadtrips in Germany and France. These trips are wonderful memories. We ALL enjoyed them.
Our son had his own ticket and his own seat; don’t try bassinette or your lap. You’ll be miserable, he’ll be uncomfortable, and all the passengers around you would hate you.
“while evasion means using illegal means, which of course you should not talk about even to your pet rock. ”
Number one way people get nabbed for tax evasion is boasting about it.
“I mean, 400k a year assuming zero passive income, take out 50% for taxes, insurance, 401k, savings, etc. is still 16k a month after all that… say 8k for “living expenses” are you really gonig to spend 250 a day every day for a year of discretionary expenditures? You got a shopping problem!”
Most 400k couples that have a spending problem are likely one breadwinner at work all the time and one bored spouse at home with a shopping problem or being passive-aggressive that their mate is never there.
“Posting publicly about one’s own tax-avoidance is a no-no.”
Again – you don’t understand my post at all. I am not talking about illegally not paying taxes – I am talking about legal deductions that lower your net income. The point being that people make a lot more than most people think (or that is reported as net income).
“The point being that people make a lot more than most people think.”
No. They really don’t. The IRS just released the latest tax data. It’s from 2009 because 2010 filing didn’t close until Oct 17 of this year.
Top 1% is AGI of $343,927. It reached a peak in 2007 at $420,000, actually.
Top 5% is AGI of $154,643.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/10/24/is-top-1-really-filthy-rich-maybe-not/
“No. They really don’t. The IRS just released the latest tax data. It’s from 2009 because 2010 filing didn’t close until Oct 17 of this year.”
Is everyone on this site a complete idiot?!! Are you kidding, Sabrina. ARe you that naiive that you don’t realize that a huge number of people make a ton of money every year that they don’t report and don’t have to report. In addition, the data you present is “adjusted gross income” – this also takes into account many many deductions (hence the word “adjusted”) – most people who make over 500k set themselves up as a corporation (self-incorporated) so they don’t have to report the entire income as personal income – they can deduct business expenses and also are able to set up pension plans/401 k plans and so forth. Good fucking god – you are so god damn stupid, I can’t even stand it. Seriously – you guys have to be joking about your ignorance regarding this very common practice. Actually, if you don’t know this, then stop posting here because you are too stupid to have an opinion that matters. This is such a basic basic and well known fact, that the thought of people out there actually believing the govt. provided data on income (on which these idiots base their opinions) is outrageous.
Yes- Clio- I understand what AGI means.
But gosh- all those people are just lying out there. Lying and lying and lying about their income.
The funny thing is- if you read what the professions actually ARE- they break down like this:
31% are managers, supervisors (doesn’t sound like self-employed to me- but maybe. Sounds more like the Senior VP at Kraft or the President of Marketing at Caterpillar.)
14% are in finance
15.7% are in the medical profession
8.4% are lawyers
The rest are a mix of professional athletes, actors, models, musicians, accountants etc. I’m sure small business owners are in there- but a vast majority of them don’t “make” over $250k (from what they’re claiming on their tax returns, at least.) This was discussed extensively in the 2008 presidential campaign when Joe the Plumber said his taxes would go up under Obama.
Also- I don’t think you understand how a 401k plan really works. The IRS has limits on the amount- even for the self-employed.
Suffice it to say- real “wealth” is greatly exaggerated by most people in this country. Everyone thinks everyone else is rich (but they’re not). Credit just creates the illusion of it all. It’s surprising how few people have any real assets whatsoever. That’s why it’s always so shocking when the librarian dies and leaves a $3 million stock portfolio.
Sabrina,
don’t lecture me on wealth or the wealthy- I obviously know more about the subject than you. Businessmen, business owners, etc. are notorious for under-reporting (legally and illegally) their income. If you self-incoporate, you can give yourself a salary and put the rest in a pension and profit sharing plan. You can write off quite a few expenses as well. This is what the majority of people who make over 500k do – the morons are the ones who actually don’t set themselves up like this (apparently 1% of the country) and therefore end up paying more taxes than they have to. Bottom line is that we really don’t know what the truth is about the income of people. My guess is that more people make over 500k than you think (and well over 1%). I just can’t believe that you people actually don’t understand this. Ask any financial advisor or broker/trader/finance guy at Charles Schwab/merrill lynch or any CPA and they will tell you the same thing. In fact, I wish there was a CPA on this site who could actually confirm what I am saying is true.
“My guess is that more people make over 500k than you think (and well over 1%).”
Wrong! It’s very, very unusual to make a lot of money. What don’t people get? Leave Oak Brook and drive around. Drive down “scary” Western. There are a heck of a lot more middle class and lower middle class people than the very rich.
The city and the Chicagoland area is HUGE. The pockets of truly wealthy is very small. And that is still in the relatively “rich” major metropolitan areas. Go to areas outside of the major cities and you’ll see even more of “reality.”
What was always shocking to me was the percentage of kids in school districts that I considered relatively affluent getting free lunches- areas like Oak Park. Now, I know there are apartment rentals and other areas of Oak Park that don’t make up the Frank Lloyd Wright mansions- but it was something like 30% of the kids in the grade schools getting free breakfasts. Who knew.
And, by the way, the average income of those in the top 1% in 2009 was $950,000. So that makes sense. Income of $950,000. AGI of $344,000.
@anonny
he lies. it happens all the time. {Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing}
anonny on October 24th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
CLIO, take a deep breath. Please read the sentence you wrote:
“10k to save for a car (two cars – each 50k, kept for 10 years)
10k car maint.”
In response to my questioning your contention that people buy $50k cars and then spend $5k/year maintaining the car for 10 years, you then wrote:
“in terms of the cars, not many people keep their cars for 10 years – usually 5…… so play with the numbers a little and you will see that I am not far off”
—
G on February 24th, 2011 at 11:38 am
“Do you guys know how to analyze data? Geez – these numbers reflect units that went under contract in oct/nov and dec – the economy is actually much more stable today – so this is a snapshot of something that happened 4 months ago. The interesting numbers are going to be coming out in June/July (regarding April and May sales). I would bet anything that the numbers are going to be much higher (YOY) at that time.”
OK, here’s my bet clio:
I bet that the Chicago single-family and condominium sales discussed in this thread will be lower YOY for June 2011 compared to June 2010. The IAR total for June 2010 was 2,526 sales.
http://www.illinoisrealtor.org/newsreleases/july2010
We agree to use the June 2011 IAR figure to decide the bet, which will be released in the 3rd week of July.
Now, what to bet? I got it! The loser agrees to be banned from posting here by Sabrina forever.
I took you up on your offer to “bet anything” clio. Now we will see what your word is worth?
clio on February 24th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
G – I accept your bet – but I don’t want you to be banned from here when I win – what will you do for fun? If I lose, then Sabrina can ban me.
CH on May 16th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
it’s a certainty that clio will welch if he loses this bet.
clio on May 17th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Yes, I will honor the bet and will not post here again.
{note} clio loses the bet and as CH says, he welches and still posts here
—
clio on September 21st, 2010 at 5:18 pm
OK – the site isn’t about me – but once again I have to stress that I have NEVER lied about anything I have written. I DO have a place on Kenwood and 58th – the ONLY thing that I was slightly deceptive about was that the condo was initially bought by my parents in the name of their children (as we were the only ones that lived there when we attended lab school) – so, although I still am co-owner, I didn’t buy it myself. There – the only “untruth” I have told is now explained. Everything else is 100% true!!
Now let’s stop analyzing my life and get back to the real estate discussion!!!
. AK49 on July 26th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
I actually hope that Clio is real and as rich as he says. It proves that anyone can be successful regardless of their communication and reasoning skills- that is unless he’s the product of his parents’ money… Being born with a silver spoon is a lot harder to duplicate.
.
. clio on July 26th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Oh really, AK49?!!! Sorry, but my parent’s money had nothing to do with my schooling or my money – actually, my parents don’t have any money.
{note} money enough to buy a condo for the kids
—
clio on September 8th, 2011 at 6:34 am
“1 doctor here knows everything about real estate. 2 docs can’t be wrong you IDIOTS and MORONS!!!”
G – I have NEVER lost one penny in real estate – not one (and have owned scores of properties). Even buying 5 properties since 2005, I haven’t lost one cent. I own several American Invesco units that are worth WAY more than what I paid for them. Why? Because I bought the right properties at the right price. Again, it isn’t that hard.
clio on February 22nd, 2011 at 10:23 am
“if redfin is accurate you bought this place for 530k. If, if you don’t have any commission fees how much did you really make out ahead after having to pay property takes and not being able to invest in the market.”
Mike – this is the first property I have owned that I have lost money on (believe it or not, but my losses – after commissions, fees and when you factor in 3 years of taxes, mortgage payments, etc. are going to be nearly 100k – this is DESPITE a near full asking price offer). I am just relieved to get out of this property. The lesson I learned – which I repeat over and over and over and over again is that location is EVERYTHING. If you are looking at investment properties and have X amount to spend, buy in the best area you can. I would much rather buy an 550k craphbox house in Kenilworth as an investment property than a huge property in St. Charles. It was a hard lesson, but one that I hope sticks with me.
TftInChi on September 9th, 2011 at 8:27 am
clio: “Still own it……”
You were either lying then (when you said you lost money on it) or you are lying now (when you say you’ve never lost money on RE). You get to choose which way you lied, I suppose, but either way you are a liar.
It really isn’t worth talking with you anymore. All insults, bluster and lies. Awful.
2 minutes worth of work instead of watching commercials and maybe a couple more bookmarks than G and only cuz Bri bri sucked me back in with an Old Town posting.
Clio. Seriously STFU about tax avoidance already. Why are you doubling down on the stupid? Please reread your earlier post from 12:14 p.m.
“…good lord, if you look at my tax returns, you would get a totally different idea that what is the truth.”
You have to be dumber than rocks to post that on a public forum. I’m trying to help you out by bringing this to your attention. Much like if you had a booger on your mustache or your junk was hanging out of your gym shorts. Loose lips sink ships, so tighten yours.
I hope clio gets caught, personally. Tax evasion should be totally offensive to every upstanding citizen. And Danny I agree, Clio’s original statement doesn’t leave much room for misinterpretation.
Clio’s meltdown and likely fraud aside, we all agree 400k is squarely an upper class income, right?
Uptown Chicago Bar Owner Sentenced for Cheating on Income and Payroll Taxes
On February 24, 2010, in Chicago, Ill, Timothy Juliusson was sentenced to 12 months and one day in prison, one year of supervised release and ordered to pay more than $153,000 in restitution for failing to report income tax and failure to collect payroll taxes. According to court documents, Juliusson, the owner of the Holiday Club, failed to report all of his income for over five years, as well as to collect and pay his employees’ payroll taxes. Juliusson admitted that he maintained two sets of books, one of which recorded the Holiday Club’s true income and loss, and one which did not report all income. Between 2002 and 2006, he provided the false set of records and bank statements to his accountants, who used them to prepare tax returns for Juliusson and his business.
http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=213769,00.html
” The judge also noted that while Juliusson
thought that he could get away with the crime because he believed that the IRS had “bigger fish to
fry,” the judge found the sentence was necessary to discourage others in the bar industry from doing
the same thing.
“With tax preparation season upon us, we encourage all taxpayers to honor their civic duty
and legal obligation to report all of their income and pay all of they taxes they owe,” Mr. Patton said. “
It is impossible for me not to report everything I make (given my job, etc.). I have never said I participate in ANY illegal activity – especially when it comes to income tax. I should sue you guys for making false accusations and libel. Honestly, you are nothing more than a lynch mob, misinterpreting posts and turning them into something that they are not. It is really unbelievable……
“CLIO on October 24th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
***************** Most people under-report the amount of money they have and the amount they make – good lord, if you look at my tax returns, you would get a totally different idea that what is the truth. ************************”
Ummm…how’s that going to look before a jury CLIO? How are you going to explain that one away?
The take-home point regarding my comment about income tax was that people actually make more money than is reported – they do this LEGALLY through self-incorporation, defined benefit programs, investments, LLC, SC etc.
Again, this is NOT tax evasion, this is mainly re-distribution and tax deferral – again – the point is that the data is misleading.
Also, what about the guy who has 10 million in investments and doesn’t work? He may make less than 400k in reportable income but his investments could be increasing in value. This guy isn’t even included in the IRS data for rich people and there are thousands of people like that out there.
What about the business owner who still works, has a business that is worth 5 million but only takes a 100k salary (the rest going into his business or opening other businesses)?
What about the doctor who makes 600k but has a defined benefit plan where he puts 300k away for retirement?
What about the self-incorporated attorney who makes 500k but has a profit pension plan and socks away 250k away each year?
These are the types of people I am talking about – and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there like this. Therefore the IRS data, while of some value, doesn’t tell the whole story…..
HD – look at my comments above. I consider the money I put in my 401k plan, profit sharing plan, defined benefit plan, HSA, pension plan as income – but I don’t legally have to pay taxes on it and it doesn’t reflect on my net income (although it IS reported) – so someone like me could be taking in 1 million but my tax returns reflect a 400k income – this is legal. Obviously, you must not be a good attorney because any attorney would understand this.
Wow – things in the housing market are getting worse and worse – who knew the geniuses on cribchatter have always been right?!!!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Survey-Home-prices-up-in-half-apf-498985547.html?x=0
clio: “HD – look at my comments above. I consider the money I put in my 401k plan, profit sharing plan, defined benefit plan, HSA, pension plan as income – but I don’t legally have to pay taxes on it and it doesn’t reflect on my net income (although it IS reported) – so someone like me could be taking in 1 million but my tax returns reflect a 400k income – this is legal. Obviously, you must not be a good attorney because any attorney would understand this.”
Quit trolling. You know damn well that he is referring to the amount of deductions. And, though I’m not saying it is impossible that deductions could add up to 60% of your total income, you can’t reach that amount through the deductions you listed. IMO, if you are consistently chopping 60% off your taxable income through personal deductions, you are doing something shady.
‘I should sue you guys’
clio… That had to have made my day.. Just sent me into a daydream of you coming down here to serve me papers…. And ah… The thought of you spending the next 36 hours, up to your neck in a stack of gasoline soaked tires…. Ahhh one might dream…….
clio: “Wow – things in the housing market are getting worse and worse – who knew the geniuses on cribchatter have always been right?!!!”
To use a phrase you are quite fond of: you are a complete idiot if you believe that. The fact that the NAR is representing the case shiller number as a gain is hardly surprising. PR is what they do best. Any impartial analysis shows it is anything but a positive number.
http://247wallst.com/2011/10/25/case-shiller-housing-price-gains-actually-losses/
TftinChi – you are a complete idiot – before you accuse someone of tax fraud – look up “defined benefit plans” and read about them……
ze- I wouldn’t be making threats – you don’t know who you are dealing with
clio – just as you should never bad mouth a newspaper editor who buy ink by the barrel, you should never sue or threaten to sue a civil litigation attorney. That’s what I do for a living clio, and I will eat you for breakfast.
“IMO, if you are consistently chopping 60% off your taxable income through personal deductions, you are doing something shady.”
or smart
Why pay taxes if you don’t have to? You think people get rich by giving the government money? Don’t be so obtuse, if you really knew how businesses ran themselves, you would realize what an insanely great tax shelter they are.
You ever wonder why business owners put EVERY expense they can on a points generating credit card? Or about how much you can contribute to defined benefit plans? Or equipment depreciation writeoffs, or why they use automobile leases instead of buying, Or why most business owners pay themselves a measley salary and just declare dividends, or equity withdrawals instead of income?
The list goes on and on, and the tax benefits given to small businesses are why this country is such an economic power because giving money to the government doesn’t create wealth or jobs.
lol… Clio, what threat? It was a daydream… Of course it’s even funnier now, thinking about you trying to explain to some marginals ‘you have no idea who you are dealing with’.
That should get you another liter of gas….
‘you can’t light me on fire, i went to Harvard, Stanford, and U of C’
esse bicha, filho da puta, joga mais um litro nele.
“you should never sue or threaten to sue a civil litigation attorney. That’s what I do for a living clio, and I will eat you for breakfast.”
ARE U KIDDING ME?!! This is just as bad as a surgeon saying “you should never piss me off b/c I have a scalpel and can control whether you live or die” – seriously, HD – stfu.
nice post by chichow presenting the clio lies.
everybody should know by now he is a full o shit troll and ignore him, but he is good at getting attention.
at some point, all the regulars have made a post that taught me something new. clambo posts at a rate 5x everyone else and has yet to contribute any substance.
CH – yeah, your posts on this thread are very very substantial.
I never wanted to make this about me – my entire point on this thread was that there are a lot more rich people out there than you think. Look at sonies post above if you don’t believe me…..
lol ze, I only understand the middle part of your sentence. Reminds me of a Brazilian friend I had at grad school : )
wrong, my post has the most useful advice of all: ignore clio
This text is entirely BOLD!
this text is not
CH.. I beg to differ… 6 tires and a gallon of gas has you beat. Unless you pull out the ‘ol tied to a wood post with flesh eating brazilian ants while you smack their nest…otherwise… game..set…match!!!
Sonies: “Why pay taxes if you don’t have to? You think people get rich by giving the government money? Don’t be so obtuse, if you really knew how businesses ran themselves, you would realize what an insanely great tax shelter they are. ”
Absolutely. But according to clio, this is possible by run-of-the-mill personal deductions (401k, benefit plans, etc.) on personal income. Which is nearly impossible, I’d think.
But yeah: keep or put your money into a business, deduct away on business expenses and you can get even higher than 60%, I’d think. If it isn’t technically your money things are very different, but that isn’t what is being claimed.
“Absolutely. But according to clio, this is possible by run-of-the-mill personal deductions (401k, benefit plans, etc.) on personal income. Which is nearly impossible, I’d think.”
uhhh just because you THINK it is impossible, doesn’t mean it is so. WTF is wrong with people in the world? Perception, opinion and distortion has taken over truth, research, and common sense. Look up defined benefit plans, you moron before you open your ugly stupid mouth.
“Perception, opinion and distortion has taken over truth, research, and common sense.”
If only you applied this to your real estate “knowledge.”
what color do you think the tires and gas, mixed with Clio, would burn… I have mostly blue with splashes of orange in mind… Background music is Jim Morrison… Kind of a Miami Vice style to the direction. Appropriate since bob is there, dressed like Don Johnson but looks like Carrol O Connor.
thanks Z. that is why I come here, to learn
Message to everyone – please re-read the posts on this thread and tell me who is being ridiculous, obnoxious, unfair and just plain stupid…. honestly, you guys are such a bunch of hypocrits – you deserve to live in your non-gz rentals.
“Is everyone on this site a complete idiot?!!”
“I wouldn’t be making threats – you don’t know who you are dealing with”
“Look up defined benefit plans, you moron before you open your ugly stupid mouth.”
“Message to everyone – please re-read the posts on this thread and tell me who is being ridiculous, obnoxious, unfair and just plain stupid….”
The fact that you claim to be a doctor is terrifying. You are an internet troll. Singularly the most obnoxious, angry and insulting poster I’ve ever encountered. Terrible.
“please re-read the posts on this thread and tell me who is being ridiculous, obnoxious, unfair and just plain stupid”
Uhhhh…..
Do you think a doctor has this much time to bait and entertain morons like you?
The obnoxious brat child of a doctor would…
Can we all agree that clio is an idiot, and that we should just ignore him? Full stop. If you ignore him, he will go away.
“The obnoxious brat child of a doctor would…”
they are too busy spending my money…….
i had the most lovely nap… Woke up in a warm dreamy wonderland where Clio was hanging in a shower stall and this nice young Cuban gentleman had a chainsaw… Bob was there again. This time he looked like Carrol O Connor, but dressed like Archie Bunker… And he was with Dan, but Dan looked like Mr. Jefferson.
gringozecarioca strikes me as a smart-ass little schmuck who looks like Jason Alexander.
“gringozecarioca strikes me as a smart-ass little schmuck who looks like Jason Alexander.”
and a search for moon hammy brings up the following :
https://www.facebook.com/RickRossStraightOutOfCompton
hows butterfield btw. ?
also, this,
definition of ‘moon over my hammy’:
Moon Over My Hammy
n. (m??n ?’v?r m? h?m’?)
Term for pulling one’s pants down too far while displaying one’s nude buttocks. Doing so will expose the man’s genitalia, which hang below the displayed buttocks.
“Oh, man, I think I traumatized the cheerleaders. My pants slipped all the way down and I gave them a “Moon Over My Hammy!””
I dig it.
Its also a dish at Denny’s or Dannys…
best not upset moonhamy and tell him about the time I was arguing with Dan, but the entire time I was picturing him as Boy George.
and the moonhamy shit is hilarious… Never heard that one before… Now i have something to do tomorrow…
thats funny, I pictured Dan as this guy
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToDsBoHatEzQOtZ9IY_GqEudmbkOO-mW6F2D1H8_Kpgrm2-OC44c3IXy_Pcw
Sonies… doesn’t that guy play for the Denver Nuggets?
ha ha!!!!! http://seat42f.com/images/stories/jason-alexander.jpg
Bob, prolly looks like Chandler from “Friends”
moonie.. Ze had Yasmin Brunet walk up to him this past weekend at the surf championship party, introduce herself, and followed me around the entire time. This was while surrounded by a bunch of guys built like adonis… Point being, Ze ain’t no more the good looking kid he once was… But Ze don’t really care what he looks like no more cause Ze knows that ain’t what gets the deal closed with the 9.2’s and up. It’s got everything to do with self-confidence… They want from you what they don’t have. In return, they offer themselves to stay close.
And ze and his wife are best friends… So not a chance! Btw… Ze never mentions much about his wife… Brasilian who was in nyc for the week, when we met, but was living in Paris..walk yourself to the obvious conclusion..
Lifes funny…enjoy it!!
“Bob, prolly looks like Chandler from “Friends””
Not far off–I’ve been told this before. Chandler looks a little bit better I’ve been told though (chicks love blue eyes).
i think it was miu who suggested that Dan was Bobs darker, drunker, and unemployed alter ego.
gringo, you are unemployed, a pothead, who sits around eating/cooking and then posting bizarre nonsense on CC. Your short dark amerindian wife led you outside the USA. Go take another bong hit, wizard!
lol… Ze planted a Jamalao tree today…
Are you saying your day at work was more fun?
Heats rollin in all of a sudden, so back to the city tonight, and on the beach tomorrow… What time is your alarm clock set for? Commute, how?
Well Ze, Moonhammy fails to realize some of the most gorgeous women in the world are from Brazil. Heck king of Sweden married one but apparently they are not good enough for Dan…lmao
“Are you saying your day at work was more fun? What time is your alarm clock set for? Commute, how?”
“fun” is not what life is all about – it is about doing something fulfilling and worthwhile. Without that, you have nothing.
in terms of my alarm clock, it is set for 430am – as usual. I do it so I can get in my 2 hour work out before work – yeah, it DOES make me feel good (and look good) .
my commute? 10 minutes.
what about you, my friend? ugly, old, getting fat – lazy and bored. pathetic and tired. you have it all backwards.
lol
“fat – lazy and bored. pathetic and tired.”
Yep.. obviously you have never paddled out into surf..
5 Million is a bargain for this property. A George Maher designed property having 5 city lots, 12,000 square feet, built in 1913, a Chicago landmark, and sitting in an extremely high income block of Hutchinson Street filled with landmark mansions, rarely becomes available on the market. I have never seen a home like this on the market.The historic value alone is worth the bargain price.
Unfortunately with a depressed market as this one, the home will take some time to sell even at this price.