There Are Still Vintage Buildings in River North: A 3-Bedroom at 353 W. Chicago
This 3-bedroom at 353 W. Chicago in River North just came on the market.
This is a vintage 6-unit building which is getting rare for this neighborhood as developers continue to tear down the older, smaller vintage buildings in order to build new high rises.
Unfortunately the outside vintage character doesn’t extend to the inside of the unit.
This building was converted into condos in 2002 and it looks like all the vintage character was stripped out.
The kitchen has maple cabinets, granite counter tops and a stone backsplash with an island.
There’s a spa master bath.
The unit has hardwood floors throughout and a gas fireplace.
It has all the features buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and deeded parking is included.
Like a lot of vintage buildings, there doesn’t appear to be an elevator in the building.
At 1800 square feet, this unit has almost as much room as many nearby townhouses that are north of Chicago Avenue.
Listed at $550,000, is this a deal for a 3-bedroom with this square footage?
Mary Aloisio at Re/Max has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3W: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1800 square feet
- Sold in March 2002 for $355,000 (included the parking)
- Sold in December 2005 for $510,000 (included the parking)
- Sold in May 2013 for $450,000 (included the parking)
- Currently listed at $550,000 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $282 a month (includes exterior maintenance, scavenger and snow removal)
- Taxes of $8005
- Pet friendly
- Fireplace
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 18×13
- Bedroom #2: 15×10
- Bedroom #3: 13×10
Mixed feelings about this unit. Finishes are nothing awesome and suggest not much in the way of improvements have been made since conversion, but for downtown this is a lot of space for the money in a very convenient, albeit slightly sketchy, location. Parking is nice, but I’d strongly prefer a garage spot around here. It is a rarity, so I think it will sell. Why no deck pic? Bad view?
If it truly is 1800 square feet, I would say this is a good deal. I don’t really get a good sense of the layout though. Why are the majority of the blinds closed? Is the view that awful that the realtor was afraid to show it? Also, where does the door in the nursery lead?
Sid – the deck probably faces a less-than pleasing view of the alley, south at Sedgwick. Though whoever didn’t photograph the deck didn’t seem to care much either way. Smartphone camera lenses do not have a wide enough field of view to exploit and capture most rooms in condos.
I walk by this building all the time and the Dunkin just east of it attracts some less than friendly (and quiet) people who I would guess are living at the Cabrini row homes. Removing the walmart at Franklin has helped a bit though; that place was incredibly depressing.
A lot of the people that are less than friendly (and quiet) are coming to the drug addiction treatment center across the street. The Family Guidance Center is at 310 W Chicago Ave. Some people call it the “methadone clinic”. That place draws drug addicts like moths to a flame.
To anyone thinking of buying this place – say hello to your neighbors!
This building always has units for sale it seems and for cheap, I guess the El and the drug rehab people are some pretty serious External obsolescence, although with that recent tower being built to the west (the Hudson) and the cabrini people mostly gone or going to be gone, all the new stuff in the area is really going to improve it… With just the construction of those 3 buildings south of Walton on Orleans the area has already changed drastically
If that drug rehab center ever goes away (yeah right) expect property values in the area to explode, although no elevator sucks, especially with the kiddo they have (see crib)
I don’t understand why they have a drug rehab center in the middle of an affluent neighborhood. The city is missing out on the property taxes from that building as well as the potential for increased property taxes through increased property value. Don’t hospitals have drug rehab centers anyway? Can’t people go to Northwestern if they need drug rehab? I doubt the majority of those who use the rehab facility live in that neighborhood anyway.
The Cabrini people are not going to be gone, just re-housed. The Lawson YMCA is not going anywhere either. And drug rehab center has been there a long time.
If you chose to live in a neighborhood, you have to accept to live with the exiting people. There is a lot of building in this neighborhood and a lot of new people will be moving in, but the existing people will remain in the neighborhood mix.
The Lawson YMCA is pretty far from this location, true about the rehousing of cabrini people, however there will be a much, much larger percentage of non-section 8 housing people moving in to keep the nefarious activities down
I used to live right on the corner of orleans and chicago until very recently – I just avoided the chicago avenue el stop and used the superior street entrance.
I’ve said it before and said it again – the people hanging out around the methadone clinic were a nuisance. They would be throwing trash all over the street, loitering at the el stop and dunkin donuts, and making so much freaking noise all day. I hated it..I don’t think the methadone clinic is going anywhere though.
That being said, If you just avoid chicago avenue, this is a great neighborhood and walking distance to a lot of great restaurants and bars.
Why do they have to be rehoused in prime areas of the city? There are plenty of areas that the poor can live.
Never mind the crib, you can see the actual baby in the bathroom photo (on bed in a bouncer contraption). I lol’ed when I saw that.
I mentioned the Lawson YMCA in response to the comment “I don’t understand why they have a drug rehab center in the middle of an affluent neighborhood.” While the Lawson YMCA is not officially a drug rehab center, the residents fit the same profile. Similar to the methadone clinic, Lawson predated the area’s affluence. It’s not going anywhere either.
It’s going to be an experiment to see if a much larger percentage of non-public housing people moving in will keep the nefarious activities down.
“It’s going to be an experiment to see if a much larger percentage of non-public housing people moving in will keep the nefarious activities down.”
It will… white people and especially Asians/Indians don’t put up with that kind of shit
Everything about the construction of this unit says “contractor special”. Cheap fridge (not counterdepth), same door on nearly all the cabinets, black granite is some of the cheapest available, cheapie fiberglass jet tubs. It’s like they were trying to design the unit luxurious on a budget. Like buying a KIA Sportage with the highest trim level.
as for the methadone clinic, that’s what we call City Livin’!
They really should just send the methadone home to people who need it. Why should they be forced to go to a clinic?
@sonies – you presume that the non-public housing people moving in will not be the new customers of the nefarious activities. River North has a large consumption of weed and cocaine.
Also, think all all those expensive smartphones that will be available to be stolen. Along with other expensive stuff that those non-public housing people will bring in.
We see that in my neighborhood. People from public housing started stealing packages and planters. Then, they started doing armed robberies. They have been infrequent, but when the police refuse to take small thefts seriously, the criminals escalate. I can’t imagine living in a building where public housing residents live along side paying residents. It must be hell.
This is a sensitive topic, but i’ll take a stab at it.
I absolutely understand that there is a population of people within public housing that have had a rough go at it, they don’t have the highest paying jobs, have multiple kids etc and are doing their best. They’re just trying to make it and I won’t knock them for that.
The problem arises typically when the kids get to middle school age and a bit older..And the cousins/family/friends start hanging around..
A colleague of mine from residency lived at parkside (I think thats what it’s called, near old town? ) – and had serious issues with the public housing tenants. It wasn’t so much theft or crime as it was garbage strewn all over the hallways and public areas, loud music at night, etc.
However, Some can argue this is a problem in regular apartment buildings too.
‘It wasn’t so much theft or crime as it was garbage strewn all over the hallways and public areas, loud music at night, etc.
However, Some can argue this is a problem in regular apartment buildings too.”
When minorities do it, it’s lack of education and social class…when white people do it, it’s being a jerk.
“However, Some can argue this is a problem in regular apartment buildings too.”
Can you fine the public housing residents? In my building if someone drops garbage, they review the footage and give them a warning or a fine.
Jenny, I sometimes think you must be drunk when you play on Crib Chatter, because nobody could really be that compassionless.
I do have to say that I am slightly horrified to see the baby’s room has an outside door!
The Lawson YMCA isn’t really a big deal. The residents there are rough around the edges but nothing too bad. It’s a city, for god’s sake. There’s a variety of people.
The area around this place is fine. Again, some roughish folk but not dangerous. If that’s not your scene then Lincoln Park beckons. I don’t mind it at all, personally. Variety breaks the monotony. And triple glazing covers a multitude of sins. People who want their neighborhood dead after 10pm so they can pull on their designer gym gear at 5am are a much bigger nuisance to me.
Anyway, this place looks pretty nice. Only problems I see are it’s a little dark and the reno was cheap and nasty. What’s behind the blinds? Pretty fair price, all told.
“It wasn’t so much theft or crime as it was garbage strewn all over the hallways and public areas, loud music at night, etc. ”
These behaviors in sociology and psychology are called anti-social behaviors. But anti-social behavior is only antisocial when viewed through the lens of a ethnocentric western culture bia. Old white lady academic sociologist doesn’t like being approached/aka flirted with by men on a CTA bus so she calls it anti-social behavior. However, on more than one occasion, I’ve seen non-caucasion stop their vehicles in the middle of street in downtown chicago specifically to holla at women on the sidewalk – and these women all seemed to appreciate the attention they received. Antisocial to certain outsiders but certainly not antisocial to those involved. maybe sometimes living with garbage strewn everywhere and loud music at night (otherwise called my college dorms) isn’t anti-social, but rather, cultural, and criticizing this type of behavior is actually a subtle form of racism, and the treatment these behaviors are given, and even our attitudes we give them on this board, are overt microaggressions that keep instilled in American society the broad racism that exists.
Old white man psychologist hates rap music, especially at 2:00 a.m., so he labels it anti-social.
“However, Some can argue this is a problem in regular apartment buildings too.”
Ha!
I know someone who rented in one of the luxury buildings with Lake Michigan views. One bedrooms starting at $3,000. And all my friend did was complain about the garbage left in the hallways (and never picked up/cleaned up by the building.) Things like pizza boxes, coffee cups etc.
Many years ago, I lived in a “luxury” apartment high rise building in River North. Tenants would throw eggs down from their units at people in the pool.
There were NO public housing people in there.
Good times.
“While the Lawson YMCA is not officially a drug rehab center, the residents fit the same profile.”
My grandfather lived in that YMCA about 80 years ago when he was a single bachelor just starting in the city.
“That being said, If you just avoid chicago avenue, this is a great neighborhood and walking distance to a lot of great restaurants and bars.”
There’s a lot of building on Chicago Avenue right now and maybe that will help.
The Flats on Chicago Avenue are set to open soon. That’s a landmarked building that has been empty for 20 years.
“sometimes living with garbage strewn everywhere and loud music at night (otherwise called my college dorms) isn’t anti-social, but rather, cultural, and criticizing this type of behavior is actually a subtle form of racism, and the treatment these behaviors are given, and even our attitudes we give them on this board, are overt microaggressions that keep instilled in American society the broad racism that exists.”
Super deep HD. But I don’t agree.
I don’t think those people are annoying because i’m racist, it’s because they throw trash everywhere and are loud jerks – they don’t have common decency or consideration for other people around them. Maybe it’s secondary to lack of education and awareness, I don’t know.
Most importantly, it’s not racism because the two most annoying people from the clinic aren’t black – they are white.
“Many years ago, I lived in a “luxury” apartment high rise building in River North. Tenants would throw eggs down from their units at people in the pool.”
I haven’t had that problem in higher end buildings. When i lived in rental buildings, this was kind of an issue, but not in higher end condo buildings. I’ve lived in the museum park complex in south loop, at aqua , and at 757 orleans over the past 5 years and didn’t have this issue. Most people were pretty respectful.
“I don’t think those people are annoying because i’m racist, it’s because they throw trash everywhere and are loud jerks –”
But that’s the ethnocentric bias you and I and many others have against ‘others’ who ‘throw trash everywhere and are loud jerks.” What we are actually implying is that that ‘low income’ tenants are dirty and obnoxious.
On the flip side, some cultures like to cook with very pungent spices, don’t wear deodorant and have their entire families over crammed into some small apartment for every foreign festival or family celebration. That’s like saying pakistanis cook disgusting food, are have stink body odors and procreate like rabbits.
On the flip side of that, many eastern cultures say that peole from western cultures ‘smell like milk or cheese’ and they find the smell disgusting. I mean, my palate craves the stinkiest blue cheese I can find but most people in the world think that is even more disgusting and vile than kimchi.
I guess what i’m trying to say is that it’s all a bit like the excellent episode of star trek where Riker serves for day upon a Klingon ship and eats their food, learns their language and their habits. They all may seem foreign at first but once you get to know them you become more understanding of it. That’s how I feel about loud music at 3:00 a.m., garbage in the hallways, and women who appreciate being hollered at by cars who’ve stopped dead in the middle of clark street.
I get your point HD – still doesn’t mean I want to pay what i did for rent and deal with all that.
Heck, I didn’t rent a unit once because I was not digging the cooking smell wafting from the neighbors home. In fact, I think it’s the reason I refused to look at units at 235 van buren altogether haha – and IM Pakistani. Haha.
Some people think littering is ‘job creation’
I wish I was joking
But there is no race of people that doesn’t act like jerks!
The units in my complex that are affordable and sec-8 have been fantastic neighbors, you wouldn’t even know they were there unless someone told you.
“Old white lady academic sociologist doesn’t like being approached/aka flirted with by men on a CTA bus so she calls it anti-social behavior”
No one wants to be hit on while on a CTA bus. No one. We’re all just trying to get where we need to go. No one should be subjected to that. I’m not going to accept being hit on just because the jerk hitting on me comes from a country where it’s condoned.
“However, on more than one occasion, I’ve seen non-caucasion stop their vehicles in the middle of street in downtown chicago specifically to holla at women on the sidewalk – and these women all seemed to appreciate the attention they received. ”
Now it’s OK to verbally threaten a woman because it’s their “culture?” This behavior is not OK. How do you know that the women appreciated the attention? I can’t think of anyone who appreciates that kind of attention. Women may laugh or appear friendly because to not respond in that way ups the threats of the guys who then start calling her a “bitch” because she isn’t acting in the way they want her to act or maybe they throw things at her or maybe they continue to follow her as she tries to find someplace safe to hide.
“But that’s the ethnocentric bias you and I and many others have against ‘others’ who ‘throw trash everywhere and are loud jerks.” What we are actually implying is that that ‘low income’ tenants are dirty and obnoxious.”
Throwing trash everywhere is unsanitary. It attracts rodents and insects that breed disease. As an example, look at India. Public defecation is a health issue that their government is trying to fix. I recently read an article that if more toilets were built and they could get more people to use them, it would save a shit ton of lives. Yes. It’s their culture to poop in public, but it’s something that they should work on changing to improve health. We all have to live together in this world and the least a person can do is not to make the world worse for others.
I’m not a traditional person, but people should take some time to look at their traditions and decide if it’s worth continuing. It’s traditional to eat turkey on Thanksgiving, but given that most of the birds are pumped with hormones and treated badly, I choose not to eat it.
“it’s not racism because the two most annoying people from the clinic aren’t black – they are white.”
So you’re just an anti-white racist, Riz.
“that’s the ethnocentric bias you and I and many others have against ‘others’ who ‘throw trash everywhere and are loud jerks.” What we are actually implying is that that ‘low income’ tenants are dirty and obnoxious.”
People who can’t sort garbage from (commingled!) recycling really irritate me, as do those who can’t be bothered to breakdown boxes.
“So you’re just an anti-white racist, Riz.”
Equal opportunity racist, really.
“No one wants to be hit on while on a CTA bus. No one. We’re all just trying to get where we need to go. No one should be subjected to that. I’m not going to accept being hit on just because the jerk hitting on me comes from a country where it’s condoned.”
Jenny, you have no idea. Some men in some cultures believe that the CTA trains and buses are the best places to meet women. And women believe it’s a great place to meet men too.
as for the hollering on the street, the one particular instance that comes to mind is the car that I witnessed stopping on Randolph street near Clark, in the middle of a warm summer afternoon, and the two men in the car leaned out and starting yelling at the women on the street how big and beautiful their butts were. And the two women, who would be described in the medical records as “well nourished, well developed” (right Riz?) turned around and walked over to the car as it pulled over to the side of the street. I didn’t stay around to listen to the rest of the convo, but I assure the women were interested in these two men and what they had to say.
And Jenny, as for you being hit on by men on the train, you should really be more opened minded, you shouldn’t be so dismissive of the guy who smiles at you and says hi. Plenty of blockbuster movies have been made about the chance encounter between two working professionals, at book stores, at weddings and funerals, and on the CTA bus.
Why are my posts being downvoted? Y’all a bunch of classist, elitest rascists.
Regarding fining the CHA/subsidized residents for littering, my friend works at Parkside and the answer is no. Mainly, they won’t pay and you cannot evict people for throwing a cheeto bag on the ground. So you just hire people to keep the hallways clean and pickup the cheeto bags, the jolly rancher wrappers, the 2 liters of grape nehi.
Re “…But there is no race of people that doesn’t act like jerks!”
Ime inconsiderate behavior is increasing exponentially as umc is opting to copy this behavior. Exh. A is driving w/o using turn signals. Today’s example: as I drove N on Orleans approaching Superior I was behind BMW who, w/no forewarning decided to turn left/west (@ signalized intersection w/no left turn bay). If driver had timely signaled intent I’d have no beef as I’d have moved into right hand lane & not had to wait for next green light to make it thru Superior St intersection. Minutes later I stopped at 4 way stop sign & waited for driver to left to proceed thru but he turned right w/o having signaled intent. Imo Chicago should issue camera supported $100 tickets to every idiot who thinks turn signals are only required to be used by other drivers & optional for the special snowflakes.
On a positive note while I doubt it’s what Riz was recalling when posting “..walking distance to …great restaurants and bars” I highly recommend Big & Little’s, a divey looking grill 1.5 blocks N of Chicago on Orleans serving exc. food (the grilled Mahi tacos remind me of the best fish tacos I’ve eaten in San Diego).
“People who can’t sort garbage from (commingled!) recycling really irritate me, as do those who can’t be bothered to breakdown boxes.”
It’s probably been at least six years or so, but I still remember my astonishment over how infrequently you needed to take out your garbage (I was taking mine out daily, you were like once a week or something like that). I now live somewhere with mandatory composting. We empty our kitchen compost can maybe once a week, recycling once or twice a week. And it takes us a month or two to fill a bathroom sized can of garbage.
“Regarding fining the CHA/subsidized residents for littering, my friend works at Parkside and the answer is no. Mainly, they won’t pay and you cannot evict people for throwing a cheeto bag on the ground. So you just hire people to keep the hallways clean and pickup the cheeto bags, the jolly rancher wrappers, the 2 liters of grape nehi.”
Ahhh, yes. No repercussions for those that pay no rent. Everyone else has to spend money to take care of them. They should be required to do volunteer work in the neighborhood in order to get a free place to live.
Southbound,
I’m actually a huge big and littles fan – the gyros taco, fish and chips, and gyro hamburger. While awful for you, are insanely good. Love that place.
Funny story – you can often catch one of the owners eating a late dinner at the bar at GT prime , lol.
Riz, what is the funny story?
Was funny to me that this guy owns a well known, gritty , hole in the wall restaurant, then walks down the street to a high end steakhouse to eat dinner afterwards so often.
…but in hindisght maybe I’m just being a tool. Haha.
Just because he owns a gritty place doesn’t mean he wants to eat there all the time. Most restaurant owners go all over. I personally don’t like big and littles so I definitely see why he goes elsewhere.
@southbound
http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/if-you-ever-feel-useless-remember-that-somebodys-job-is-to-install-turn-signal-systems-at-bmw-indicators.jpg
Homedelte- I just want to say you crack me up.
In all honesty I agree with your very sound assessment. We live in a very multi cultural society and hence we should appreciate the broad arrays of diverse behaviors that it entails. I like how you put liberals in their place and simultaneously expose their hypocrisy.
I was on the CTA and a young man wearing baggy jeans down to his butt exposing his underwear was playing a very loud blue tooth speaker. Or the time when several young people in a group were smoking cannabis on Clark and Addison. Or the time when I saw two men on Devon and Western spit a reddish spit (they chew this God awful Indian tobacco called pan I believe) on the sidewalk and it will stain the sidewalk permanently. Don’t believe me? Walk around there and look at the sidewalks.
Bawitdaba da bang da bang diggy diggy diggy,
Diggy, said the boogie, said up jump the boogie
All the crackheads, the critics, the cynics
And all my heroes at the methadone clinics….. KID ROCK.
Dumb virtue-signalling sh!tlibs that hate Trump and his wall, deserve to live near heroin addicts. Did anyone see that Ted Cruz suggested we take $10 billion from El Chapo to help pay for the wall? Who could object? A: sh!tlibs who just hate and obstruct all good ideas for progress.
people within public housing that have had a rough go at it, they don’t have the highest paying jobs”
Yet the sh!tlibs (and so many on CC) reflexively hate Trump’s good ideas yet again, to bring jobs back to America. Think, you idiots. The petty crime starts young because “single mothers” are a DISASTER. Yet Obama and his elite handlers seem to want to promote that family structure. Evil.
“and criticizing this type of behavior is actually a subtle form of racism, and the treatment these behaviors are given, and even our attitudes…..”
Blah, blah, blah, stfu HD.
Driving thru Johannesburg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuNYOwKlDIE
“Now it’s OK to verbally threaten a woman because it’s their “culture?” This behavior is not OK. ”
Oh gee, then kindly explain why almost all sh!tlib white females backstab their own men, fathers, sons, brothers, etc. at the voting booth by voting for the Democrats who are openly trying to keep our borders open to Third World immigration from foreign and non-assmiliating cultures? Jenny might be one of the few females that white males deem worthy of saving when they end up in tense situations. The rest of you, you know who you are, deserve to be left to your own pathetic choices. Deal with it. Don’t come running to a “misogynist” when you really need help, or cry that nobody stepped up to save to from abuse. got it?
lastly, hidden history: Gandhi lived in South Africa and was racist against the blacks who were deemed a lower class than Indians. Gandhi also was a pedophile at the age of 70.
PS I was near the North Ave. off-ramp recently, and right across the street from the Mercedes dealership that sells $100,000 cars to Obama and Hillary voters is a large encampment of homeless blacks. The hypocrisy of lakefront liberals, expensive import-car driving Jews, and rich childless homosexuals is too much to take.
What we need is a city photographer chronicler to take an Alfred Stieglitz-like B/W photo of the hungry & homeless camp in the foreground, with some hook-nosed East bank club brat and his wife salivating over their needless “import car”. Lol. Oy vey, the hypocrisy!!
“how infrequently you needed to take out your garbage (I was taking mine out daily, you were like once a week or something like that)”
Been slipping a little, but the regular trash is still basically less than a bag and a half (tall kitchen size) a week, and twice as much recyclables. Obv was a bit more when kids were in diapers.
Am interested in this:
https://go.indiegogo.com/blog/2017/02/whirlpool-conquer-food-waste.html
to really reduce food waste going into trash stream.
“right across the street from the Mercedes dealership … is a large encampment of homeless blacks”
I get it if you’re not an Audi fan, but calling them ‘homeless blacks’ is a bit much.
Household of 6 with one garbage bag per week. Fill up the blue recycling can in almost a week though.
“right across the street from the Mercedes dealership … is a large encampment of homeless blacks”
Ime that group of homeless is racially diverse (50/50?) including an aggressive older male who’s trying to up his income by angrily shouting at drivers. But I get that helmet can’t spot details like that on Google earth. and I’m shocked he didn’t comment on absence of illegal hispanics
It doesn’t matter. The lakefront liberals, Jews, and homos aren’t going to help blacks … or white deplorables. They hate them both. They care about their car.
I am a lakefront liberal except I am pro life because I don’t like the whole murder baby thing. But anyway, I had a ripped up beaver coat that I was going to repair but instead, decided to buy new. So I took the old beaver coat and laid it down on a mattress under the north Ave bridge. See, I care.
Hmm.. Murdering “beavers” is OK, but don’t “kill” the collection of cells that come out of the “beaver”?
Sorry, couldn’t resist. You said “beaver.”
Jenny, are you a 12 year old boy?
Well, you did just say that a small collection of cells is a baby and that a woman who exercises her reproductive rights is a murderess. I could ask you the same thing.
You are making beaver/vagina “jokes” and I think babies should be kept alive. And somehow, you feel these are comparable? I guess you aren’t a 12 year old. I’d say 10.
I would say that your lack of knowledge of a fetus vs. a baby and lack of respect for women is about the same as a 12-year-old boy. Hence, the beaver joke. I originally made that joke because I assumed that you were making a second disparaging comment towards women because why choose a beaver coat when you could have chosen any other type of fur?
I don’t know why you think lack of respect for women is coming into play. And, fetus is in a lot of pain being aborted so I guess calling a baby a fetus makes you feel better about the whole thing. Unlike you, I completely understand beaver is a type of animal and juvenile slang doesn’t come into the equation when making purchasing decisions.
“Dumb virtue-signalling sh!tlibs that hate Trump and his wall, deserve to live near heroin addicts.”
There is no wall.
And there never will be.
There will be a wall. Even the Dems understand that if no wall gets built as promised to the nation’s voters, then nobody will ever take “democracy” seriously ever again. Already, the Left has abandoned it conceptually after what the Rahm/Hillary/Obama/Perez/(((donor))) class deceitfully did to Bernie via super-delegate manipulation. The wall has an approval rating of 70%. The workers of this country want it too. Funny to see at Daley Plaza so many idiots that claim to support the “Workers” on May Day, protesting for the admittance of unlimited immigration which reduces wages for workers. They dumb antifa are actually supporting the RINO Chamber of Commerce position for more low wage labor supply. That’s bad for workers, not good. Lol.
PS I hope of the “college-educated” CC white feminists happened to notice that a savage went around the Univ. of TX campus yesterday targeting them, because of their skin color. He didn’t care about your dumb misguided beliefs.
I like immigration. You end up with people who actually want to be here and contribute to the country. Part of what makes this country great is that we’re not all the same. We have different opinions and are allowed to express them.
It may sound harsh, but I would tell the poor uneducated white men who voted for Trump to go and better themselves instead of sitting around whining about not having a factory job. We have free libraries in this country. We have inexpensive community colleges. If you want to better yourself, go do it. There are immigrants who literally die trying to get to this country. If these poor Trump voters had even an once of the fortitude, they would not be whining.
gf posted “..I had a ripped up beaver coat that I was going to repair..”
Picture gf busily working his needle and thread on his great buy from Village Discount while waiting to pickup from Ogden School? Wadda tool
herr hofer posted “.. I hope of the “college-educated” CC white feminists happened to notice that a savage went around the Univ. of TX campus yesterday targeting them, because of their skin color…”
Typical hofer puking up some bogus bs – the factual report is three white guys and an asian guy were stabbed. What does a psycho stabbing guys have to do w/feminists?
“It may sound harsh, but I would tell the poor uneducated white men who voted for Trump to go and better themselves instead of sitting around whining about not having a factory job. ”
Reason #1,456 why Hillary Cliton lost the election and why the (D) party may never win a national election again. Keep up the condescending good work!
The fact of the matter is that all that wealth that we once had was shipped overseas so that some managers in an urban corporate center could get a bigger bonuses for a few quarters. To simply say “go better yourself” shows a naive understanding of global economic at best, and a racist, classist, and hateful world view of those of less means.
“The fact of the matter is that all that wealth that we once had was shipped overseas so that some managers in an urban corporate center could get a bigger bonuses for a few quarters.”
Actually, this is completely wrong homedelete.
Over 30 years ago we made a choice. Cheap clothing and other products or the jobs. We chose cheap clothing, pots, pans, televisions etc. We chose Walmart. And once we chose that, there was no going back.
In order to have the “lowest price” it HAD to be made overseas.
And look at clothes. Clothing prices haven’t gone up in over 20 years. That sweatshirt you bought in college for $60 is still $60 on that same campus today.
The pressure on margins is killing the apparel retailers now but customers have been trained that they won’t pay more for clothes. It’s just not going to happen (and especially not now with H&M, Zara and Forever21 and their $10 pants.)
Strangely, consumers are willing to accept price increases on other items like shoes and cars. Cars are at record high prices this year. And people are paying it.
So- no. It has nothing to do with managers in some urban corporate center getting a bigger bonus. It began with Sam Walton decades ago.
And now, just like when 50% of the American population was still farming (as recently as 1945), fewer and fewer are working in factories. The job market HAS changed. If you want to survive, you don’t stay in the farm town. If you want to thrive, you don’t wring your hands and say “bring it back.” It’s not coming back. The video store isn’t either.
What we need to do is start re-training at the community college level. Many are already going this route. Not everyone is going to be a coder but what about all the other jobs that need to be filled?
Caterpillar and other equipment makers have said you need skilled training to be able to drive their equipment to work on that highway or bridge. Everything needs skills these days.
Many community colleges are free or low cost. Become a welder. Learn tool and die. Here in Illinois, the tool and die makers can’t find enough workers. They are recruiting from local high schools with internships and apprenticeships. And yes, you need an associate degree to do these jobs.
“The factory” isn’t the cure. That’s the past. Just like the farm. We need to be training our workforce for the current job market and the future.
“Reason #1,456 why Hillary Cliton lost the election and why the (D) party may never win a national election again.”
By the way, the Trump voters are in the MINORITY in the country. They are just 45% of the population. The rest of us are competing. It’s those of us in the city who are going up against the best of the Japanese living in Tokyo and those engineers in India.
I’m so sick of hearing about the poor rural people. The best and the brightest go to the cities. It’s been that way for decades now. Nothing is stopping them. NOTHING.
So quit whining and change your lot in life.
There are certain rural areas of the country which saw all of these changes coming decades ago (duh!). They have unemployment rates under 4% right now. They have adjusted their economies. They have brought in new industries, including healthcare and tourism. They’ve encouraged those wineries to open. They’ve worked hard to try and make it work. Go look at Southwest Michigan. It should be a model for a lot of rural areas and smaller cities.
I don’t hear them whining.
“There will be a wall.”
Nope. No wall. Not ever.
Not a single Congressman or Senator from the border states supports it so it is dead on arrival. And you can forget about Mexico paying for it. They’ll crush our farmers first. Fun times!
No one (except in HH’s delusional mind) want the wall.
We also won’t get tax reform. (sadly) Maybe tax cuts- but no reform. There is no political skill whatsoever in this administration and real reform takes political skill.
Also no infrastructure which sucks because we need that too. Thankfully, the Congress passed that $300 billion transportation bill in 2015 so some money is flowing towards these projects. That’s how the subways are being repaired and built across the country right now, including the new red line stations. But it’s just a 5 year program and it doesn’t address the thousands of bridges, most of the tired airports, the bad railroads and other issues.
ACA will not be repealed. Or replaced. It’s likely it will be modified in some bi-partisan plan.
NAFTA may be renegotiated but it’s not going away because it works. It has brought benefits to all three countries.
Politics takes real skill. It’s a profession. I don’t know why anyone thought they could put someone in who doesn’t even know how a bill is made and think that major, groundbreaking reform was going to get done.
Also, if anyone thinks what’s happening in “rural” America is new, they need to get with reality.
This is Billy Joel’s great song, Allentown.
Year?
1982.
It could be written today.
Well we’re living here in Allentown
And they’re closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they’re killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we’re living here in Allentown
But the restlessness was handed down
And it’s getting very hard to stay
Well we’re waiting here in Allentown
For the Pennsylvania we never found
For the promises our teachers gave
If we worked hard
If we behaved
So the graduations hang on the wall
But they never really helped us at all
No they never taught us what was real
Iron and coal
And chromium steel
And we’re waiting here in Allentown
But they’ve taken all the coal from the ground
And the union people crawled away
Every child has a pretty good shot
To get at least as far as their old man got
But something happened on the way to that place
They threw an American flag in our place
Well I’m living here in Allentown
And it’s hard to keep a good man down
But I won’t be giving up today
And it’s getting very hard to stay
And we’re living here in Allentown
“Actually, this is completely wrong homedelete.”
“Over 30 years ago we made a choice. Cheap clothing and other products or the jobs. We chose cheap clothing, pots, pans, televisions etc. We chose Walmart. And once we chose that, there was no going back. ”
Sabrina, this is the line the 1% repeats to make you believe it was ‘our’ choice to destroy the american industrial infrastructure, when in fact, it was not, and it was the richest americans benefited from the outsourcing at the expense of nearly everyone else. And they knew what they were doing at the time too. And they are fabulously wealthy from it.
I’m not trying to be an a-hole, but if you take a step back and look at the situation – the average american actually had a near zero choice about where the items he purchased were made. The decision to send manufacturing overseas was made by managers and CEOs for pure profit motives. Sam Walton did so for profit reasons, and after his superstore shut down Main Street, there was nowhere left for shoppers to go except for walmart, and it was all cheap foreign goods.
It started with manufacturing, the call centers, then back office, then IT, now radiologists, and so forth. Do you think the average american has a choice when he says to a major corporation “I only want to buy from your company if your IT department and back office is the US?” He wouldn’t have a cell phone, an internet provider and possibly not even watch TV as many shows have some production overseas!
Billy Joel had no “great” song, ever.
clothing prices have skyrocketed while quality has decreased drastically… you paid 60 bucks for a sweatshirt in college 20 years ago? yeah fuckin right!
” He wouldn’t have a cell phone, an internet provider and possibly not even watch TV as many shows have some production overseas!”
Without the overseas worker we would not be able to afford any of those things.
However, it’s upsetting and scary that they are moving IT departments and radiologists overseas. BCBSIL is in the process of moving their IT department overseas and it’s been a complete disaster. The overseas workers simply do not know how to do the IT jobs that they want to move and it’s scary to think that my medical records will soon be sitting in India, with workers who can’t actually do their jobs.
I don’t care where my jeans are manufactured. I care where my health records are stored.
The US has always been great at inventing and creating new companies. Do we really need our sneakers to be made here too?
“The fact of the matter is that all that wealth that we once had was shipped overseas so that some managers in an urban corporate center could get a bigger bonuses for a few quarters.”
“some managers” = Trump’s cabinet (would have also = Clinton’s cabinet).
“you paid 60 bucks for a sweatshirt in college 20 years ago?”
25 years ago, and I didn’t bc that was too expensive, but the “nice” sweatshirt was 75 or 80 bucks. The closest analog (note: none of them appear to be as nice) is now $66 (confirmed on the website), and the most expensive (an under armour polyester thing) is $86.
The basic roo pocket hoodie was $40 then, and $40 now.
As a radiologist, let me just chime in – nobody is moving radiologists overseas. There was a lot of commotion about this a few years ago – Medicare and all the insurance companies have made it incredibly clear they are not going to compensate a dime on anything ready by a foreign trained radiologist. If a hospital contracts with a foreign firm for “preliminary” reads, the liability is entirely the hospital’s – which they aren’t willing to take.
Sure, some American trained and board certified radiologists live abroad part of the year and read scans remotely – but that’s hardly outsourcing. Even that is getting shut down as there isn’t a way for insurance companies to know who is *really* reading scans abroad.
Also, I think I agree that clothing prices haven’t changed much. I remember air Jordan’s were about 200 dollars in 1996 – about the same now.
Remember when the Tommy Hilfiger jeans were the craze in the 90’s? They were around 100-150 bucks I think , which is what a pair of “nice” jeans costs today.
This is a really interesting article about clothing prices through the years. It’s shocking to see that people up until about the 1950s were spending about 12% of their annual incomes on clothing. Now, it’s about 3%:
https://qz.com/189904/the-case-for-fewer-but-better-clothes/
The cost of clothing dropping is to be expected due to technology and the sourcing of materials. GMO has made cotton yields go up globally and the increased use of cheaper synthetic materials has decreased costs. Offshoring is only part, not all, of the reason for cheaper clothing over the years.
On the flip side, many other things in the monthly budget have increased hugely in price. Housing, health insurance, car insurance, education, health care, taxes, utilities, vehicles…leaving less disposable income for clothing..
and if you want to get into ‘vehicles are more expensive’ category you’re also getting a lot more for your money. The days of the stick shift economy that wouldn’t last to 100,000 miles of the late 1970’s and early 1980’s are long, long gone. The average age of a car on the road these days is 11.6 years, and it’s common place to have some of those large V6 SUVs and crossovers hit 200,000+ miles with only minor repairs. It may have cost $30,000 for the car 9 years ago but it’s got another 5 years left in it.
Air Jordans were $130 new back in ’92
It’s amazing to me that many focus on the past disruptions (outsourcing) but not on the current and future disruptions (automation, which is increasing).
Back in the 70s/80s when manufacturing moved to “right-to-work” states, the people who took those jobs (and their local, state, and national reps in government) seemed to think that all the manufacturers that were re-locating had reached the end of the cost-cutting measures. Somehow, they were going to be happy forever with the decrease from $25-$50/hr union wages to $6-$15/hr for a non-unionized workforce. But the jobs eventually went to Mexico and then to the far East, as labor is even cheaper there.
While manufacturing is coming back to the US (a phenomenon that started in a small way under BushII and increased under Obama, BTW), there are FAR fewer jobs in the plants that have opened here, b/c much of the work is now done by robots.
Automation is going to replace many low-level service workers, as well. Cashiers, waitstaff, etc.
Also, I gotta say, if I was a long-haul trucker or UPS/Fedex driver under the age of about 50, I would be looking to re-train about now, as self-driving vehicles are going to put those folks out of work in about 10-15 years.
Bringing manufacturers back to the US is neutral to kinda good (more from a tax base perspective than job creation), but we should really be focusing on the challenges that are coming. What are the jobs that WILL exist 5, 15, 20, 30 years from now? How can we prepare ourselves?
We need people who develop all of the automatic technology. That’s the type of thing at which Americans excel. Then, we’re going to need people to make newer and better automatic things. Once we have self driving cars, we’re going to need people to make them even better. We’re also not at the point where the self driving cars will drive to a robotic mechanic. We’ll get there one day, but it’s still going to take a lot of work to make that a reality.
There are still so many things to invent and improve. We need people to do that. Why waste someone’s time driving a truck when that person could be contributing new ideas to society?
S – “.. those of us in the city who are going up against the best of the Japanese living in Tokyo and those engineers in India…”
Jenny- “..However, it’s upsetting and scary that they are moving IT departments…overseas. BCBSIL is in the process of moving their IT department overseas and it’s been a complete disaster…”
I agree with Jenny – corporate bean counters trying to save nickels & dimes outsource IT to places like India b/c in theory they’ve many qualified IT engineers. Then they learn Economics 101 – you get what you pay for. If a foreign IT engineer is good they’d have landed a much higher paying H1B job here.
Re Sabrina’s comment about competing with Tokyo – we raise and attract from abroad the best INDEPENDENT THINKERS in the world. Ime Tokyo corps. & engineers do great work on rote tasks like copying & re-engineering products but aside from some consumer electronic lines imo they produce very little new or innovative IT.
Sabrina is absolutely correct. American consumers want cheap goods. They get them through a global economy.
$130 in 1992 is $230 today.
I just remember the jordans were too expensive for a 12 year old back in the mid 90’s – my parents were not about to buy me shoes that cost more than 50 bucks. I overcompensated with time and now I have about 30 pairs of them – it’s an illness. Guess I’m part of the problem haha.
As a radiologist, let me just chime in – nobody is moving radiologists overseas. There was a lot of commotion about this a few years ago – Medicare and all the insurance companies have made it incredibly clear they are not going to compensate a dime on anything ready by a foreign trained radiologist. If a hospital contracts with a foreign firm for “preliminary” reads, the liability is entirely the hospital’s – which they aren’t willing to take.
–Be careful. When I entered the practice of law, lawyers said legal work, even basic document review, will never be sent overseas. Too much liability. Guess who is doing first round document review? Indian lawyers. And the ABA says its okay as long as an American attorney is ultimately “responsible” for their work and ensures adherence to ethics rules.
Urban mommy,
Document review is not legal work. It’s proofreading – brainless work. My wife did it for a while before passing her bar and wanted to shoot herself.
Laws ( and unfortunately for you guys, bar examinations) vary so much state to state – no chance an Indian lawyers get much further than doc review.
“Sabrina is absolutely correct. American consumers want cheap goods. They get them through a global economy.”
I totally disagree with this. Americans buy what is on the shelf at Target or Wal-Mart or Macys; and most of it just happens to be foreign made.
In fact, there is a LOT of expensive foreign (Chinese) made items out there from hunting knives, to high end apparel and accessories and so forth. My wife’s Coach bag was made in China and that’s not ‘cheap goods’.
You’ve all been sold this ‘myth’ that wal-mart shopping americans want ‘cheap’ good when in fact it is the corporations doing a crazy labor arbitrage and pocketing the difference. This has contributed to record corporate profits over the years, low wages for service and manufacturing sector employees and the most obvious of them all, the extreme wealth disparity because those who own the means of production and those who don’t. There’s a reason Bernie has been so popular and the DNC choose to ice him out. Corporations preferred Hillary.
As you can tell, I feel strongly about this, and I show the truth about the ‘americans prefer cheap goods’ at every opportunity I get, because it’s just not true, yet it’s repeated everywhere.
“My wife’s Coach bag was made in China and that’s not ‘cheap goods’.”
Dude, hate to say it…but coach is very much considered ‘cheap goods’, or at best, tacky goods. It does not have any brand recognition in terms of the yuppy elite.
YSL, LV , chloe, hermes, etc. those are your ‘luxury’ purses. Not coach.
I don’t think i’d spend enough money to consider something ‘expensive’ if it was made in china…Including my shoes or my coat.
“Americans buy what is on the shelf at Target or Wal-Mart or Macys; and most of it just happens to be foreign made.”
This very much applies to ‘middle class america’ and people in their mid 40’s and up, but i don’t think that mentality applies to the millennial generation at all. They are way too celebrity and brand obsessed.
“There are still so many things to invent and improve. We need people to do that. Why waste someone’s time driving a truck when that person could be contributing new ideas to society?”
This assumes that everyone in America is intellectually capable of doing so. What makes you believe that someone who has been driving a truck or assembling transmissions for the last 25 years is capable of, with a year or two of training, thriving in hard, white-collar work? Or even wants to?
“What makes you believe that someone who has been driving a truck or assembling transmissions for the last 25 years is capable of, with a year or two of training, thriving in hard, white-collar work? Or even wants to?”
They won’t. But there is plenty of retraining in areas they WOULD want to be in.
When a factory shuts down because the jobs are shipped out of the country, under federal law the employees are given money for retraining. Some take the offer, some don’t.
Some of those that were working in the Oreo factory, for instance, have gone back to school. And they’re in their 50s. Now’s their chance.
“My wife’s Coach bag was made in China and that’s not ‘cheap goods’.”
Coach used to make a lot of their bags in China (although they manufacture in many countries.) They started moving it to Vietnam 6 or 7 years ago because labor was cheaper there.
What really matters with those bags is where the leather comes from. You don’t want any leather from China, obviously.
A $300 bag isn’t going to be hand made in Italy. That’s the $2000 bag. The only way to keep that bag price lower, if they’re using good leather, is to make it in places like Vietnam.
“I totally disagree with this. Americans buy what is on the shelf at Target or Wal-Mart or Macys; and most of it just happens to be foreign made.”
You are living in 2017 HD. Go back in time. China wasn’t making ANYTHING in 1985. Everyone there was farming. In 1985 televisions being made in places like Taiwan and Japan but Zenith used to manufacture everything in the US.
But then Walmart tells everyone, “we need it cheaper.” That was a requirement for being in that store. “cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.” So the manufacturers started looking for outside makers. This took 30 to 40 years to develop until basically everything was made outside the US. American consumers didn’t care. We made the choice. And yes, it was a choice. We wanted cheaper everything, including clothes.
Why are people buying $100 wedding dresses on the Internet that are made in China and then complaining that the quality stinks? Yes- this is happening.
Because they want it cheaper.
You don’t get something for nothing. But believe me, Americans know where those $10 pants are being made. No other way they’re $10 unless the person making them is paid 10 cents a day to do it.
“American consumers didn’t care. We made the choice. And yes, it was a choice. We wanted cheaper everything, including clothes. ”
This was not America’s choice. it was business that made this decision for America, and they got really wealthy in the process.
“Why are people buying $100 wedding dresses on the Internet that are made in China and then complaining that the quality stinks? Yes- this is happening. ”
This is a straw man argument.
“Dude, hate to say it…but coach is very much considered ‘cheap goods’, or at best, tacky goods. It does not have any brand recognition in terms of the yuppy elite. ”
Coach are $400 bags. I could care less if it has brand recognition among the DB ‘yuppy elite’. You’re a young guy, you probably make a decent buck I’m sure (and so do I) but at lease I recognize there’s a huge gap between the top 5%, top 1% and even the top .1%. If you’re not in the top 1% and you’re buying $2,000 leather bags, you’re no different than the stereotypical doctor who fritters all his money away (I have a doctor or two in my family and they keep perpetuating the stereotype too!)
“I like immigration. You end up with people who actually want to be here and contribute to the country.”
That’s laughable. Go to Lewiston, Maine and see how the unemployment and crime rates have INCREASED because of Somali immigrants. Sure, there may be some immigrants who “work” because they are illegals and have to, but overwhelmingly the citizens of hoods like Little Village are on the DOLE, they take welfare, ask for free health care, etc. Plus, it’s the 2nd and 3rd generations that turn to sh!t. Little Village is a gang-ridden hellhole because of the offspring of the “immigrants”. Mexican immigrants aren’t even Christian, by the second generation they are FULLY COMMITTED to gang-banger and the American hip-hop “gimme da stuff” lifestyle.
southbound: sorry I was wrong about the gender of the Austin racist stabbing victims, but the perp did target white people. Lucky it wasn’t your kids that he hated on sight. Funny thing is, some kids posted some “flyers” that said “Around blacks, never relax” which is pretty good advice the stabbing victims could have used to save themselves. But in this insane, Stephen Colbert type of idiotic sh!tlib society there are people who think the “flyers” are worse than the heinous murder and knife-stabbing slashings were.
“I would tell the poor uneducated white men who voted for Trump to go and better themselves instead of sitting around whining about not having a factory job.”
That is hateful anti-white stereotyping. How about all the non-whites who wanted Bernie or Hillary because they want more free stuff, welfare, and affirm action benefits for themselves, because they CANNOT COMPETE against the white male?
I read recently a list of “programs” that pertain to women and blacks that give them advantages, fundings, preferences, organizations, tax money, foundation grants, etc. and the list for each group was about 30 items each. That’s how much effort has been pumped and continues to flow, for 40 plus years now, to seek the equality of outcomes against the white male, who is handicapped like a strong successful horse in a handicap race at Arlington. So save us all this BS about failed white men voting Trump in. He won a dazzling election with a big win in the electoral votes. Hillary lost because she didn’t have the stamina to keep up with Trump. Trump worked, Hillary didn’t.
PS I was over at Midtown Athletic club yesterday, and you have these decrepit beta men and their bitchy ugly wives, all Hillary types and Obama voters, walking in there with their tennis racquets. Meanwhile, you see white males working on all the subcontracting crews doing the construction there. I wonder what these hard working, honest, patriotic, authentic men think, working hard all day, when these ugly, weak, decrepit sh!tlibs walk by to do their gay “fitness”? Trump represents workers and real people. Obama and Hillary represent decay and degeneracy.
Rizzo is going to be at Fox Ford on Elston tomorrow if anyone is interested at getting their pic with him.
Helmet,
If this is how you feel on these issues – why not be active in the alt right movement? Repeatedly posting your agenda on a real estate blog full of liberals isn’t changing any minds. While I think Richard spencer is looney tunes, at least he’s got the guts to put his hateful rhetoric on display – not hide behind a anonymous blog post.
“Coach are $400 bags. I could care less if it has brand recognition among the DB ‘yuppy elite’. You’re a young guy, you probably make a decent buck I’m sure (and so do I) but at lease I recognize there’s a huge gap between the top 5%, top 1% and even the top .1%. If you’re not in the top 1% and you’re buying $2,000 leather bags, you’re no different than the stereotypical doctor who fritters all his money away (I have a doctor or two in my family and they keep perpetuating the stereotype too!)”
Coach used to be a luxury brand. I don’t consider them to be so any more. It’s the middle class woman with the Coach bags. This is what HH should be buying for his wife: http://www.neimanmarcus.com/Fendi-2Jours-Petite-Faces-Leather-Tote-Bag-Tan/prod192670202/p.prod?icid=&searchType=MAIN
Do people really spend $4K on a bag? Jesus.
I like Coach, so I buy Coach. I haven’t bought a new bag for 4 or 5 years, but the Coach store will clean (and repair) my bags for free.
I freely admit to being super-basic, but the $300ish range for a laptop bag/ purse that will last 10 years or so seems about right to me.
“Fritters all his money away (I have a doctor or two in my family and they keep perpetuating the stereotype too!)”
You’re entitled to your opinion, I was just pointing out that coach is considered a very middle class persons bag. ( who pays 400 for coach btw? )
Also, being a top 1%’r doesn’t mean you should be buying 2k bags – I think I fall in that bracket and you wouldn’t catch me spending that much. If you’re making 1 mil +, sure, but if you’re less than that it’s just dumb. Plenty of people making 500+k in this city and they aren’t all wearing Chanel bags and driving G wagons…I agree with you that there’s a big subset of younger professionals who seem to blow money on this dumb stuff, doctors and lawyers included, but that’s not me. Not trying to work till I’m 70.
My wife indulges on the bags but that’s on her dime – I don’t get it, but it doesn’t matter to me where she spends her money.
“Do people really spend $4K on a bag? Jesus.”
Yes. My wife has spent that much since January.
It’s crazy, I know. I don’t get it either.
“who pays 400 for coach btw?”
If you count $395 as “$400” (I would), then well over half of their current women’s bags are $400 and up:
http://www.coach.com/shop/women-handbags#srule=price-high-to-low&sz=24&start=0
People on this blog have a crazy idea of what constitutes “middle class”.
.
Anon, just meant that their stuff is always on sale and they have multiple outlets. If you’re a bargain shopper like myself you don’t pay full price for most stuff.
Anon,
Just meant that coach is always on sale and has multiple outlets. It’s not a premium brand like moncler or ysl or something that you need to pay full price for bc of limited supply etc.
Oops didn’t mean to double post but you catch my drift.
“People on this blog have a crazy idea of what constitutes “middle class”.”
No netjets = MC
“Just meant that coach is always on sale and has multiple outlets. It’s not a premium brand like moncler or ysl or something that you need to pay full price for bc of limited supply etc.”
This. Most people buying Coach bags are looking for bargains. The lines outside of their outlet store can get intense. Now, they have an online outlet that’s open from time to time. I’ve bought a couple of bags and like them.
Back in the day, Coach was an exclusive brand and very high quality. I found an old coach bag at a thrift store when I was in college and the quality of that bag is amazing. I still use it sometimes.
The most exclusive brands almost never have sales and you’ll see the used bags going for $20,000 or more. Walk into an exclusive shop and you’ll see a small number of bags out and a bunch of sales people who will dote on your every whim. (Note, I’ve never purchased, but have gone shopping with wealthy friends.)
Why anyone would want to pay 400 let alone 4000 dollars for any bag made by people paid in doled out grains of rice and fish heads or even a modest wage is beyond me. You’re getting suckered either way.
It is absurd to suggest that the middle or lower classes “chose” to lose their jobs in order to make as many goods as cheap as possible. This is the result of protracted greed by .1% types coupled with the imperative that publicly traded companies must be competitive so as to please the shareholders always, and often cannot afford not to follow suit.
hh-”Mexican immigrants aren’t even Christian,”
uh last I checked Mexico was an extremely catholic country… in fact nearly 5 out of 6 people there are catholic… wtf are you even talking about
Re: Handbags
I let my wife buy Coach and Kate Spade bags all she wants (which is like twice a year) and I’m ok with that because I know it could be a LOT WORSE!
How nice of you to “let” your wife by a handbag. What else is she allowed to do?
read the whole sentence fucktard
Lmao @ sonies. Love that word.
I did asswipe and it sounds like you enjoy degrading your wife. Glad to know you are “ok with it because it could be a lot worse”. That is probably what she says to her friends when they ask why she is still married to you.
Urban mommy,
Document review is not legal work. It’s proofreading – brainless work. My wife did it for a while before passing her bar and wanted to shoot herself.
Laws ( and unfortunately for you guys, bar examinations) vary so much state to state – no chance an Indian lawyers get much further than doc review.
Your right, doc review isn’t, but some are drafting discovery memos/motions….but the point was that even this was unthinkable years ago. It’s a slippery slope. Don’t assume your profession is safe. They could create a first round review and send you only the harder films to review…. Or send them to med school year, then send them back.
“I did asswipe and it sounds like you enjoy degrading your wife. Glad to know you are “ok with it because it could be a lot worse”. That is probably what she says to her friends when they ask why she is still married to you.”
I think you need to lighten up man. Are you not married? My wife and I both have to occasionally ‘let’ the other one get something , or ‘stop’ the other one from buying something excessive. I think his point was that he doesn’t care if his wife buys a pricy (ish) bag from time to time because a lot of women ( and men ) out there splurge money on unnecessary luxury crap a lot more than that.
“Your right, doc review isn’t, but some are drafting discovery memos/motions….but the point was that even this was unthinkable years ago. It’s a slippery slope. Don’t assume your profession is safe. They could create a first round review and send you only the harder films to review…. Or send them to med school year, then send them back.”
Sure, it’s important to be vigilant – but also to recognize what is realistic and what isn’t. I feel like i’ll be replaced by a computer way before an indian radiologist. Same goes for your profession.
Riz, do you speak for Sonie now? I am being called a fucktard by Sonies, you laugh at him, encouraging the vile creature and I have to “lighten up, man”? Woodstock called, they want you and your “groovy” friends back. Ragface.
“Ragface”
So, are we getting into racial slurs now? It’s okay, i’ve been called a lot worse. I’m not going to stoop that low, but for clarification, pakistanis don’t typically wear turbans. You probably want to direct that one at either the Sikh community or the Middle East.
I just think F*tard is a funny word – hence my post, ‘love that word’.
That woodstock / groovy joke is really unfunny man. How old are you, like 80?
Anyways, with all that hate in your heart, you and HH would be two peas in a white supremacist pod. God bless.
Is Ragface a racial slur? News to me. What race doesn’t like being called Ragface? So are you a Pakistani? How would I know what you are? Hate in my heart? You have a big projection issue. (Google it, or ask your shrink to explain that to you).
No,
rag face is actually a racial slur – it’s the female pretense of ‘rag head’. I’ve heard it enough times in my life to know what it means. It’s not a commonly used term. I think you know exactly what it means too.
again, it’s okay. I’ve been called far worse. Just don’t backpedal on your bigotry.
I never back pedal on anything, especially not for you, or anyone on this board. If I wanted to make racial slurs, I’d make them and they would be pretty obvious. I would leave nothing to the imagination. However, we are a multi racial family so racial slurs aren’t our thing. So believe whatever you want. Who cares.
“However, we are a multi racial family so racial slurs aren’t our thing. So believe whatever you want. Who cares.”
Being multiracial doesn’t excuse you – My wife is white, i’m brown. So, if i call a black person the ‘N’ Word or a hispanic person a similar epithet, i’m not racist?
Doesn’t work that way, cowboy.
Ragface is not a racial slur. You are pretending that it is. Completely wrong, but you seem to be wrong a lot. Btw, Cowboy is a racial slur. Pretty disgusting. Very offensive. So sad.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ragface
Lol. i don’t care dude. whatever it takes for you to make it through the day.
Right back at you Rizzy.
another lovers quarrel!
you guys have it all wrong. MY WIFE let’s me do stuff and tells me what to do! i slay dragons all day king at work and then my wife tellls me to change her cats literbox and to take out the garbage. and then i comply!!!
HD I don’t get it – are you drunk amigo?
“HD I don’t get it – are you drunk amigo?”
I don’t often drink but when I do, I drink Dos Equis.
“uh last I checked Mexico was an extremely catholic country… in fact nearly 5 out of 6 people there are catholic… wtf are you even talking about”
He’s lost his mind. It’s one of the most Catholic countries in the world. It’s why the Pope keeps going there. Last I checked, Catholics are Christians.
“If you count $395 as “$400” (I would), then well over half of their current women’s bags are $400 and up:”
Coach bags at the regular Coach stores are not the same as the ones at their outlets that are mass made with inferior leather.
You’ll pay a LOT more for a regular Coach bag.
But the outlets make the brand aspirational. Middle class can buy at the outlets and say “I’ve bought a Coach” and then they covet the “regular” bags that are $400 or $500 each.
But Riz is right that Coach isn’t YSL or a Birkin or something like that. They are appealing to the upper middle class not the truly rich.
“This was not America’s choice. it was business that made this decision for America, and they got really wealthy in the process.”
You need to go read up on US history HD. That’s all I say. Or maybe you are too young and don’t remember when men had one or two suits because clothing was so expensive.
But you’re right. No one is forcing Apple to make its iPhone in China. It could just as easily make it here and charge $2000 for it. But why aren’t they???
America made its choice over 40 years ago. There’s no going back now. There’s only going forward.
“Mexican immigrants aren’t even Christian”
Remember everyone, HH does NOT live in Chicago.
Anyone who lives in Chicago is well aware that all the Catholic churches in the Mexican neighborhoods have their services in Spanish. In fact, that started in areas like McKinley Park in the 1990s. The only reason the Catholic church is still viable in many neighborhoods of Chicago is due to the Mexicans. They are actually saving the church in many places.
Oh, and HH still can’t get over the fact that Trump lost the popular vote. Remember, Hillary won every major city. It will be the same again in 2020 (with whatever Dem runs then.)
Women are pissed. We will make sure that the House goes to the Democrats in 2018. And guess what? Nancy will be Speaker again. Lol! I’m laughing out loud at the thought of it.
“You’re entitled to your opinion, I was just pointing out that coach is considered a very middle class persons bag. ( who pays 400 for coach btw? )
Also, being a top 1%’r doesn’t mean you should be buying 2k bags – I think I fall in that bracket and you wouldn’t catch me spending that much. If you’re making 1 mil +, sure, but if you’re less than that it’s just dumb. Plenty of people making 500+k in this city and they aren’t all wearing Chanel bags and driving G wagons…I agree with you that there’s a big subset of younger professionals who seem to blow money on this dumb stuff, doctors and lawyers included, but that’s not me. Not trying to work till I’m 70.”
“Women are pissed. We will make sure that the House goes to the Democrats in 2018. And guess what? Nancy will be Speaker again. Lol! I’m laughing out loud at the thought of it.”
You’re insane and never married. You never attracted a male, so you end up bitter. You think women are equals? LOL!!! How about I call you to fix my rooftop unit in January when it’s 8 degrees out? Never see any stupid wymyn stepping up. You’re nuts. You make laugh.
PS Regarding Mexicans, they are reportedly 30% of Chicago’s archdiocese, but they produce only 5% of the vocations, they CANNOT keep up the parishes they were given by white Europeans. They are failing. The buildings are failing.
I told you, Sabrina, you don’t live in reality…. the Hispanic offspring of the exalted “immigrants” are full blown hip-hop embracing idiots and douche bags. They stand for nothing, they represent nothing, they become Modelo littering idiots and mass culture morons in the 1st generation. I cannot even believe you cannot see reality, you’re in TV land.
OMG! Look at this “medical doctor” going off on handbags and European brands. This guy is why you never want to trust your loved ones to some douche immigrant doctors. Thank you for reinforcing this fact. what’s next? A discussion about your Cartier watch? Non-whites are hilarious, like Saudis who love to opine about luxury goods or who buy their way into golf or horse racing events. UGH. Sickening.
“OMG! Look at this “medical doctor” going off on handbags and European brands. This guy is why you never want to trust your loved ones to some douche immigrant doctors.”
Actually not an immigrant, but my parents are, thanks. Not sure why my opinion that too many people waste money on “luxury” goods is so offensive to you – I think you probably just want a reason to hate a “nonwhite” – and that’s your right I gues.
Again – you have some strooooong opinions for a anonymous online troll. Why not make your opinions on women and nonwhites public – tell us who you are.
The problem with people like you isn’t your hateful rhetoric – it’s that over time it builds up inside you and eventually you act on it – that’s when you make the headlines. I really hope you get some help or an outlet before you kill some poor woman or “nonwhite” HH. God bless.
PS , Cartier watches are okay. Not my favorite. Thanks for asking.
“I let my wife buy Coach and Kate Spade bags all she wants (which is like twice a year) and I’m ok with that because I know it could be a LOT WORSE!”
This is why I will never be married.
“Ragface is not a racial slur.”
What’s it a reference to, then?
“This is why I will never be married.”
That’s not the reason you will never be married.
Now you’re just trying to pick a fight, HD. Nothing to do on this dreary Friday?
GoneFishin sounds like a cuckboy
oh and he’s a racist prick too, real nice
I have a theory that multiple posters on CC are all the same person, arguing with him/her self.
At least I know I’m real (OR AM I???)
Remember, HH doesn’t live in Chicago.
He’s now telling us he’s the 1%.
Lol!
So much hate. It’s hard to believe a person like HH actually exists out there in the world. Why would you waste your time here on Earth being so bitter and angry?
Sad!