Trying to Re-Sell in 235 W. Van Buren in the Loop
235 W. Van Buren started closings at the beginning of June 2009. The new loop high rise near the Willis Tower has about 714 units.
The developer currently has 14 model homes available for viewing because of the numerous floorplans.
According to public records the current building stats are (out of 714 units):
- 136 units closed (through Sep 24)
- 13 currently on the MLS for sale
- 19 for rent
Some units may be both for rent AND for sale. Also, the developer is not listing all available units, obviously, on the MLS.
This 1-bedroom came back on the market nearly immediately after closing in June 2009. It has been reduced twice since then.
The unit has the signature concrete ceilings and walls of CMK developments. The kitchen has cherry cabinets and stainless steel appliances. There’s no kitchen island.
Erin Wolkowitz Swinson at Quest Realty Group has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1510: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, no square footage listed (but Unit#1410 is listed at 828 square feet)
- Sold in June 2009 for $252,500 (I don’t know if this included parking, but I’m assuming it did)
- Originally listed for $264,900 in June 2009 (parking extra)
- Reduced twice
- Currently listed for $249,900 (parking $30,900 extra)
- Assessments of $257 a month (includes water, gas, heat, AC, doorman)
- Taxes are “new”
- Bedroom: 11×10
- Living room: 14×12
- Kitchen: 9×10
- Unit #1410 is available for rent for $1275 a month (parking extra) and has been on the market since July 2009. It was just reduced.
This is gonna be a big ol’ fail… you can buy them brand new from the developer for 225k!
2/1’s are 250k and 2/2’s are 275k brand new from the developer lol!
This building looks downright scary. Add to the fact that it has SEVEN HUNDRED units and who would want to live there?
Is Fannie or Freddie going to finance these things as I doubt the building meets the percent sold threshold. Seven hundred units sounds like the number of condo units that are selling in any given quarter for all of Chicago these days.
Epic fail by a greedy developer who crammed as many small units into the site as possible. I hope this project bankrupts CMK.
Something is wrong with those assessments. $257/mo for water, heat, AC and doorman? Expect those to jump straight through the roof if it is not a misprint.
Sabrina… please don’t call it Willis Tower, it is Sears Tower!
“Sabrina… please don’t call it Willis Tower, it is Sears Tower!”
hey the lego set i bought at legoland still says SEARS TOWER so i agree it shall stay as that!
Also its really lame that they even call this a 1 bedroom since the bedroom is behind the kitchen and the only natural light is from the gap above the kitchen cabinets. My 2nd bedroom is like that and it is strange.
Also maybe a ‘fake lottery winner’ like this person can buy up all these units… Bob you’ll get a kick out of this!
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-oh-coat-liar-txt,0,7787126.story
“Also its really lame that they even call this a 1 bedroom since the bedroom is behind the kitchen and the only natural light is from the gap above the kitchen cabinets. My 2nd bedroom is like that and it is strange.”
its super-duper-triple-dog-dare-you LAME because its the master bedroom.
at least in your place sonies you use the 2nd with no window and no ceiling as an office/den/guest room.
why is RE so dishonest and crooked?
yeah i think this building is gonna be in trouble in the future. everything about it just seems cheap, dorm-like, to me. the unfinished ceilings fad will go away (yes i know, i can paint it), the partial walls to allow them to call them bedrooms, low ceilings, etc. like bob said, just the developer trying to cram in as many units as possible.
the assessments will remain low i believe in comparison to other buildings. there are basically no amenities and the cost of a doorman is being split 714 ways.
So much ignorance; so little time.
Start with “low ceilings” – just over 10 feet is low? See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SitHSxSSYlI
The project has FNMA approval.
Some of yu need to get out more – contact with reality might reshape your opinions.
And yes, the developer is an advertising client of my firm’s.
So much arrogance; so little time.
Idiots like Joe and low down-payment advocates are just going to prolong the recovery.
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2009/10/13/fha-head-rejects-calls-for-higher-down-payments/
does it come with razor blades? that is some of the saddest space i have ever seen in my life.
could you even drag yourself out of bed from that dark hole in the back each morning to walk to your cubicle!
aaaaaahhhhhhhggg!
Hey, at least you aren’t forced to eat at a breakfast bar! Instead, you can trip on the chairs in your eat-in living room/kitchen.
Shouldn’t this be listed as a junior one bedroom?
joe, put down the crack pipe, nobody ever said that the ceilings were low…
The exterior of this building is a masterpiece. I’d put it in the top 5 of high rises built during the boom. It’s easily the best exterior CMK has ever done.
Unfortunately, the interior is standard boomtime crap. The floorplans sucks. The largest two bedrooms have long hallways to get from the front door to the living space. It’s a complete waste of space that you still have pay for.
I looked at this place since I really wanted to live close to work. The real killer for me is that it’s a two pipe A/C system, meaning units with sun exposure will roast in early Fall and Spring. Having suffered under the two pipe regime in Presidential Towers for years, I immediately crossed this place off my list.
sonies,
Read DC’s comment a little more carefully.
Egads, a 12′ X 14′ living room. And the place looks so much like about 10,000 others in this city that went up during the rampage, I don’t know how you know you’re in the right apartment when you come home at night.
Never mind the concrete ceilings- another architectural fad promoted by cost-cutting developers.
When the dust settles after all the bailouts and housing stimulus and EZ money FHA loans with the tax credit, places like these will revert to being rentals, and we’ll have a glut of them close to downtown.
Yawn.
I agree with Laura in terms of the bland box that this unit looks to be. A young professional who wants to walk to work or (more likely) a rental is what this place screams to me.
If the seller thought they’d flip it for a profit right after they took delivery, they were sadly mistaken. Condo flipping for instant profits pretty much stopped being viable by 2007, what was their excuse?
Sonies,
Your advice to JZ is a little off base. Its never the dealers that actually consume the product: they’re smarter than that and just push it.
If you think Joey Z would ever actually buy a condo in Chicagoland for 200k+ I’ve got something to sell you.
Unfortunately for Joe no amount of marketing can bail out CMK with their 700 unit monstrosity. Even in the best of times it would be a hard sell but in these times its basically a guaranteed bankruptcy.
And they deserve it for being so gung ho and throwing up units every which way in the south loop these past few years.
Joe tell us how the owners of 1620 or 1720 S Michgan are going to fare in this downturn?
LMAO its curtains boss. Milk all the advertising revenue you can until our government puts the pressure on their banker and it folds. Because its plain to see the entire business ecosystem is toxic its only a matter of short time until it collapses.
I overheard a conversation in the elevator yesterday. Some guy in my building was buying a short sale in Modesto CA to rent/flip. He said he lives in Highland Park. This will not end well.
Joe Z,
“So much ignorance; so little time……….Some of you need to get out more – contact with reality might reshape your opinions.”
such harsh words for somebody running a PROFESSIONAL website and business.
brother please try to conduct yourself with class. comments like that should be left to the anonymous desk jockey’s/armchair internet Real Estate commenter like me.
you are a PROFESSIONAL in the business please act like one.
i do get out to reality but from 8:30 to 5pm my reality is a desk and my entertainment is Cribchatter 🙂
I bought at CMK’s first South Loop building in the 1400 block of S Michigan. I bought it to flip and made a nice chunk of change but only after being screwed by Colin. The 2/2 900sf corner unit changed from the marketing plans by moving a fan coil unit from the living room to the master resulting in a room so tiny that if you wanted to walk around the bed it would have to be a twin. He also unilaterally dropped the second lav in the master bath and a closet. His response? sue me…
well, I took the chance that a buyer might not realize you couldn’t fit a bed in the master if there wasn’t one there to begin with and I didn’t want to lose the profit…
Tipster is right about the desing at 235. The architect, Ralph Johnson at Perkins and Will is notorious for designing beautiful award-winning residential buildings on the exterior, but absolute disasters on the interior (i.e. skybridge, the concrete condo building in river north)…
that is to say two different projects ^^^^
I retract my statement about low ceilings. i didn’t do a lot of research and was stating that off the top of my head, i thought this had low ceilings. perhaps i’m thinking of another CMK development or I’m just plain wrong.
doesn’t change my opinion about this building. but the developer might not run into financial troubles, at least not soon. i remember a previous chatter said they have a few years until the loan is due (2011 i think) and have an option to extend that a couple more years. in that chatter we mentioned that their closing numbers, etc. were holding up surprisingly well
For the same money, I could get a large 1BR in my LP high rise w/ “amenities” like windows in the bedroom, and extra 5′ in both dimension in the living room, 3-5x the closet space access to the park right across the street…
Biggest nastiest ugliest building – EVA! Yikes!
Generic – nothing special – blah blah blah.
the 235 WVB website has floor plans of every unit. 1510 is listed as 768 SF with 40 SF of balcony. also of note, the parking podium + retail level appear to be about 10 floors. not sure how they go the first residential floor as #14.
“10 foot ceilings” and “FNMA approval?”
Golly jeez, then, I suppose the only reason these aren’t selling is the lousy advertising.
Buyers will continue to lose $$$ here for a long time, just like those already CMK’ed in the South Loop.
G,
You continue to be totally shameless about making stuff up.
http://yochicago.com/sales-update-steady-deliveries-and-contracts-at-235-van-buren/11713/
If 235 isn’t selling that would be news to the folks signing contracts at CMK.
Wait, Joe Zekas? Didn’t you take your toys and go home? Yes, yes you did–you said you would never come back here again. I thought it was funny when for a while after that, you would send your employees to post here. But it’s downright hilarious that you are posting here yourself again, after flouncing out. Times must be REALLY tough at yo.
Yo’s doing just fine, Kenwothey.
And no, I’m not afflicted with nostalgie de la boue.
I am very disappointed/shockingly disgusted at some the PROFESSIONALS that post on this site. You do know what you say and how you act reflects your business and your clients? so i shall repost what i said above.
“Joe Z,
“So much ignorance; so little time……….Some of you need to get out more – contact with reality might reshape your opinions.”
such harsh words for somebody running a PROFESSIONAL website and business.
brother please try to conduct yourself with class. comments like that should be left to the anonymous desk jockey’s/armchair internet Real Estate commenter like me.
you are a PROFESSIONAL in the business please act like one.”
take a page from Gary Lucido’s book. he takes internet attacks all the time here (probably elsewhere too) but yet he still can make his point with class.
“Yo’s doing just fine, Kenwothey.”
” Joe Zekas 8/25/09 at 7:25 PM
No one will be more shocked than me the day this site turns cash-flow positive. That’s a ways away.”
Joe you certainly have a different definition of a “fine” than I do.
http://yochicago.com/rent-check-one-museum-park/9370/
Why are you back? You promised to leave and never return.
As for yo doing “just fine”–just looked for the first time in months. Last ten posts, two comments total, one of whom is your employee.
to add on Mr Zekas,
your website good and brings a lot of insight and knowledge, the videos are cool (except for the creepy one on the some northshore beach where the camera was focused on some 14 year old girls). the floor plan and amenity comparisons are informative.
so kudos for you for bringing something good, i just think a little tact will help more. as i am being detoured from visiting and use your website.
Groove, your reaction is exactly why he’s posting here again: “Post on a website people actually read, and a couple of them might actually click on mine!” That is, until they start reading his comments are realize how rude he is.
As for whom Zekas should emulate, it’s Sabrina. Despite the fact that he hurls abuse at Sabrina and cribchatter on his own site, she has never been anything less than generous to him on this one.
I for one am glad Joey is back and I don’t think its anyone’s business here to tell him he can’t or shouldn’t post other than the blog owner. I always have fun in my civil discourse with Joey. 😀
“I don’t think its anyone’s business here to tell him he can’t or shouldn’t post other than the blog owner”
bob, brother man can post what he wants, i am just opinionating (not a word) that he is representative of a business and should act as such. disagreements and points to be made can/should be handled different than anonymous posters like us.
Kenworthy,
sabrina is the bee’s knee’s, and runs a very cool beans website while letting us internet kids have our freedom of voice. There is a listing on here where yo chicago calls her out (and was rude) for being in the Biz. i cant remember which one but she did a good classy job defending herself. (i still think she is in the biz or married to someone in the biz, i am thinking MG)
No one told him not to post; he got his panties in a bunch and left of his own volition. Of course, he can’t stay true to his word, so he’s back.
“the bee’s knee’s”
wow sory about that everyone channeled my inner AARP card holder.
Opining.
Early on in this thread I hinted at my reason for chiming in– CMK’s a client, and the subject here of mindless speculation and misinformation.
Bob (among others) wonders “who would want to live here?” Hundreds of people have already made that decision and no one here is asking those people – or themselves – about the demonstrated appeal of CMK’s developments to nearly 2,000 buyers.
Bob babbles about FNMA approval – without checking to find out that project approval was granted several months ago.
Sonies – you bought in a CMK development. Help your fellow chatterers understand why. That 2/1 you reference for $250k – is it smaller than the 1/1 unit in question here and with a less desirable exposure? Ditto for your other references. I did enjoy your saying it’s “really ame” to call the bedroom here a bedroom – and immediately saying it’s like your “2nd bedroom.”
paulj – Have you actually been in this space?
The trash talk about the project’s financial status is just that – trash talk. Anyone who understands the status of sales here and the economics of this type of project will find the “fail” meme difficult to buy into.
And Groove77 finds me unprofessional for calling out ignorance for what it is – while he’s apparently entertaining himself at his employer’s expense.
Sorry for the typo – “really lame” …
Buyers will continue to lose $$$ here for a long time, just like those already CMK’ed in the South Loop.
Joe Zekas, thanks for reminding me that it happened in River North, too.
LOL about the hundreds of “buyers”. That only leaves hundreds to go, right?
There was a “demonstrated appeal” for pets.com and American Invsco, too.
Have you no shame, Joe Zekas?
G,
You’re not bright enough to realize that you’re demeaning everyone who’s bought from CMK rather than saying anything meaningful about me or CMK.
BTW, let’s all note that Joe Zekas has nothing to say about all the CMK purchasers who have seen their units drop considerably in value.
Mind you, there were many who warned of this years ago only to be abused or banned by Joe Zekas on Yo.
He appears to be nothing but a greedy shill that couldn’t care less about encouraging suckers to buy a depreciating, illiquid liability.
G,
For the record, you were banned for being a know-nothing near-lunatic who had nothing to contribute but inappropriately singing the same tired off-key song you’re still singing. I don’t provide a venue for ugly things like you (and others here that I’ve banned) to defame honest people, and I understand why that disturbs you. It’s all you have to offer.
YoChicago has a track record for anyone to judge on their own. I’ve also trashed some developers – but from a base of knowledge rather than ignorant attitude. We’ve linked to 1000s of negative articles over the years from reputable sources.
I’d disrespectfully submit that it takes a complete descent into madness to make the claims you make.
“Sonies – you bought in a CMK development. Help your fellow chatterers understand why. That 2/1 you reference for $250k – is it smaller than the 1/1 unit in question here and with a less desirable exposure?”
Hmmm…paid endorsers tend to spin! Let’s take a look at the two units in question. 1510 is a 768 sq ft, long narrow corridor, south facing with a windowless bedroom – http://www.235vanburen.com/site/epage/49931_658.htm?unit=1510.
I assume the Sonies and Mr Zekas are referencing the smallest 2 bedroom units available such as 1513. These are 749 sq ft west facing, roughly square units with windows in the master bedroom and living room – http://www.235vanburen.com/site/epage/49931_658.htm?unit=1513.
Both units have 40 sq ft balconies.
I think most people (w/o children) would greatly prefer the ’13 units over the ’10 units…especially at a lower price point. Everyone (outside of the occasional vampire) wants a window in their bedroom and the second small bedroom would make a great offfice/study. I also fail to see any advantage of a southern exposure over a western exposure.
Bottom line, early buyers in this building (like any other new condo building today) are going to lose money if they actually go through with the contract. It appears that the seller in question in this thread is hoping that the greater fool theory is workable!
G,
I banned one of life’s walking wounded who went by the screen name of G. S/he wrote in a voice, and from a boundless well of ignorance, that’s identical to yours.
Your fact-free delusion that CMK’s nearly 2,000 buyers are “marks” is too laughable to address.
I came here to address some misstatements of fact and off-the-wall speculation. I haven’t seen anyone here dispute me on that front.
Joe,
I’m not sure G has nothing to contribute–they frequently post facts here from public records or statistics for the rest of us.
Unlike you who posts such things as “ignore the price the seller paid” for a piece of real estate or even being adamant in denying that there was really a downturn in real estate as late as earlier this year.
don’t say this your giving G alot of credibility, and I really don’t want G to be right.
“#
Joe Zekas on October 17th, 2009 at 9:39 am
…singing the same tired off-key song you’re still singing. I don’t provide a venue for ugly things like you (and others here that I’ve banned) ….
Wow, If this thread represents anything close to a cross section of the overall sentiment towards real estate in this country, I’m a buyer all day long. Please stay fearful America and I can continue to grave dance.
Have you noticed that the price of gold has more than quadrupled since 2000? Do you know what the implications of that movement has on real estate and other hard assets? Do you recognize what the price per square foot of Chicago real estate is QUOTED IN GOLD, NOT DOLLARS? SILVER? YEN? Do you realize how cheap real estate is in terms of palladium, copper, oil, etc… Dollars are just paper, there are other things in this world that hold value, including the bricks and mortar of real estate. Go on with your petty conversations, as they are unfortunately (or fortunately) missing the point.
Yes Howard its all about gold. My muscles do seem more toned as of lately while I drag around my burlap sack of gold to and fro’ various merchants.
Also payday is particularly grueling for me as its tough to cart around the various precious metals my employer pays me in! LMAO!
Continue to be a buyer all day long–I’m sure people like JZ can assist you with being highly leveraged to a declining asset class.
And just in case there is any doubt about how troubled Joey’s customers are:
http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/cenc25/stagemon09
Business is booming and are there no Americans in Baghdad either Joey?
Bob, I would love to see your portfolio. I’m sure your returns are well in excess of the market.
Howard,
One needn’t be a genius or even a Jack Bogle to beat your returns in the market if you are as long on real estate as your admit to on this forum.
It was so obvious that real estate was due for a massive correction back during the heyday, especially with publications like the Economist having an issue in 2005 with a cover story of “After the Fall”.
So keep “dacing on the graves” Howard. Just be sure you don’t misstep and fall in one, which I suspect is the case.
Bob
“Also payday is particularly grueling for me as its tough to cart around the various precious metals my employer pays me in! LMAO!”
The U.S. government is also L “ITS” AO b/c you would have been 4x richer had your employer actually paid you in precious metals. Do you know what it means to be paid in a fiat currency? Clearly not. You’re sitting in traffic on your way to work for the man while the guy that got paid in bars is on the beach sipping mojitos. now that’s funny.
Ze got paid in bars?
revassal said: “don’t say this your giving G alot of credibility, and I really don’t want G to be right” any longer.
I fixed that for you, revassal.
lol
lol, funny when your detractors present evidence you been right all along
“revassal said: “don’t say this your giving G alot of credibility, and I really don’t want G to be right” any longer.
I fixed that for you, revassal.”
“Sonies – you bought in a CMK development. Help your fellow chatterers understand why. That 2/1 you reference for $250k – is it smaller than the 1/1 unit in question here and with a less desirable exposure? Ditto for your other references. I did enjoy your saying it’s “really ame” to call the bedroom here a bedroom – and immediately saying it’s like your “2nd bedroom.””
I bought a resale in a CMK development. Its a nice building, well built, the foot thick cement on all sides of you is great because then there’s no neighbor noise, above, or from the sides.
I like minimalist finishings personally, and the $250k 2/1 I reference is from the gigantic poster on the front of my building which is a sales center for 235 VB or something.
And I just call it like it is, the fact that they call the bedrooms with no exterior windows, but a hole above the kitchen IS LAME. I don’t sugarr coat stuff, I just tell you like it is, and as a buyer, I really didn’t care because I bought a 2/2 and I use the 2nd bedroom as an office/guest room. I’d be quite angry if my one bedroom didn’t have an exterior window, that’s all.
CMK buildings are great low cost, moderately finished buildings in good locations. you can always change the interior of a building, you can’t easily change its location!!!!
“Have you noticed that the price of gold has more than quadrupled since 2000? ”
Huh….they actually keep statistics on this – http://www.goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html#10_year_gold_price.
I’m not a math major, but 237.03% is not quadrupled. Plus…what in tarnation does the price of gold have to do with real estate???? I’m sure there are gold blogs that would welcome more input. As far as this property is concerned, whether you pay in dollars or gold, you will end up losing money at the current asking price.
Thanks, Sonies, for adding the perspective of an actual buyer in a CMK development – and for candidly admitting that your earlier price comparisons were not based on familiarity with the 235 Van Buren units. As to your being ” quite angry if my one bedroom didn’t have an exterior window” – well, that isn’t terribly relevant to someone who chooses that scenario, is it?
CribChatterers as a group (and I know it’s not true of all), have been yammering for years about how unaffordable housing is in good locations.
And here they are, attacking a developer who has a track record of delivering a quality, architecturally-distinctive product in strong locations at a price that’s affordable. Is the number of units at 235 a reflection of “greed” as some assert here, or amortizing land costs, etc. over a larger number of units to meet a price point that’s appealing to the market? The asnwer’s obvious to any rational individual.
do your units even come close to cashflow?
“Plus…what in tarnation does the price of gold have to do with real estate????”
The argument goes that if inflation takes off because of all the money the Fed is printing, then investors should be in any hard assets (that would include gold and real estate.) Cash becomes worthless.
“Do you recognize what the price per square foot of Chicago real estate is QUOTED IN GOLD, NOT DOLLARS? SILVER? YEN? Do you realize how cheap real estate is in terms of palladium, copper, oil, etc”
I understand the idea of gold as a “safe harbor” in troubled times but conflating real estate with gold does not appear to make sense. Real estate is not a scarce natural commodity. Real estate pricing has never tracked with the price of gold (for example, the past year). The psychology of the gold and real estate markets is not even close to the same. If we are going to discuss the possibility of Weimar Republic type hyper-inflation, real estate is the least of our concerns!
“And Groove77 finds me unprofessional for calling out ignorance for what it is – while he’s apparently entertaining himself at his employer’s expense”
hey my employer took away my 401k match, (bastards), so my pay back is wasting 30min a day entertaining (also learning) myself on CC.
and Mr. joe the difference is i am not promoting my company or clients on this website.
Joe i know your pissed off that the gubment is canceling the social security cost of living raise for two years and the free rides for seniors may get reverted, but dont take that out on other people.
look at the bright side i saw a comercial yesterday that you can get a hoverround “at no cost to me” and the local family restaurant still has the liver and onion special on wednesday.
Mr. Zekas,
i also now will become a “contributor” to your website. i wonder if i will get the boot before im even able to contribute?
Don’t bother, nobody goes to his website anyway as its a giant advertisement for overpriced crap.
oops i already bothered sonies 🙁
I actually posted there a legitimate question up for discussion. its in the “affordable” kenilworth listing thing post. check it out
i know if anon reads it he will stab me, or bring it up it further posts :).
“I actually posted there a legitimate question up for discussion. its in the “affordable” kenilworth listing thing post. check it out”
Dude, you realize that Kenilworth (as a whole) has deed restrictions (yes, unenforceable in court, but still) against jews and non-whites, etc.–basically everyone the oldtimers disapproved of. I think that’s all you really need to know.
Oh, and also, go read the parent comments about the Sears school at greatschools dot net (not the 5-star ones, the bad ones). Obviously, there’s a serious self-selection bias, but that doesn’t sound like the environment for tehGroove’s kid(s), even if it’s seriously exaggerated.
wow good heads up anon!
the wifey has been pushing kenilworth since there are a few cheap homes popping there now. i caved in. but she ended up on the phone too long so we missed the time frame 🙂
i never really looked into the area or school (only know its top 5), since its out of our price range.
really? “has deed restrictions” and the whole entitlement plus bulling thing? I guess the grooves will stick out 🙁
“really? “has deed restrictions” ”
I just want to repeat–before someone jumps on it–that they are *not* legally enforceable at all, and (based on a vague recollection) more likely to not exist west of the tracks, but that’s the historical environment of the town.
Of course, there’s no way you can *make* the seller accept your offer, either. So someone who wanted to apply the restriction, could, but only when they’re the seller.
So anon(tfo) is calling out all the residents of Kenilworth as a bunch of racist snobs? Or are you just saying that’s the historical context because I don’t see how that’s relevant to anything.
If you want to say that you think the town is a bunch of racists then say it, don’t beat around the bush.
“Kenilworth as a bunch of racist snobs?”
One of the jewish lawyers i know made a comment a about he is not allowed to drive thru kenilworth cause a kenilworth cop will spot his jewish nose and pull him over.
never got that until today.
“So anon(tfo) is calling out all the residents of Kenilworth as a bunch of racist snobs?”
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Kudos to you for cutting through the nuance and the subtleties to the root of the matter. Bravo.
You really know no one (and can’t even conceive of someone) who would be bothered by that history? Because I do and it is relevant to them; for me it’s a historical note, b/c I wouldn’t have been excluded.
Just to add, YoChicago is pretty dead concerning answers to my questions. maybe cause i am new to the site there?
the only person who answered me was Joe Z, which is surprising considering i attacked his unprofessional manner.
and yes anon,
the groove is thinking suburban flee, had two different incidents Friday night and Saturday afternoon that has got me thinking again. This maybe just an emotional overreaction and i may go back to normal groove mindset in a few days 🙂
“Is the number of units at 235 a reflection of “greed” as some assert here, or amortizing land costs, etc. over a larger number of units to meet a price point that’s appealing to the market? The asnwer’s obvious to any rational individual.”
Completely agree, Joey. And given other developers have successfully and typically thrown up projects with around 200 units for this same lot size, it IS obvious.
The number of units at 235 WVB is their Achille’s heel. Even if they are selling as you claim (and I believe they are), they would need to be selling an _awful lot of units_ for this to be a success. Given current absorption rates I doubt it will be.
Their troubles are all of their own making and I do indeed have the popcorn ready. Its nice to see someone forced to sleep in the bed they made, figuratively speaking.
I wonder what sales volumes will do after 12/1? 😀
“the groove is thinking suburban flee, had two different incidents Friday night and Saturday afternoon that has got me thinking again. This maybe just an emotional overreaction and i may go back to normal groove mindset in a few days”
Dude, I understand. And New Trier Township is a fine place. I just think you (or, at least, the intertubez vision of you) would be more likely to like your neighbors in Wilmette than in K’worth.
As I’ve said, I’d flee the county, too, but (1) that’s just me and (2) if the veto override bill becomes law, it might get a little less insane.
Racial and religious covenants existed in many places – including Hyde Park and South Shore.
It’s all ancient history.
For whatever it’s worth, according to the Washington Post data, Kenilworth’s ZIP code (60043) contributed $146k to Obama through 10/08 vs $46k to McCain. Is that the behavior of a racist community?
In 5 years in Kenilworth, and another 15 in Wilmette, I’ve never heard a racial or religious slur or seen anyone treated badly.
The world has moved on and you all should too.
“It’s all ancient history.”
Okay, Joe, I’ll take your word for it.
You do realize that like 90% of jews are liberals right Joe? I don’t think contributions to Obama’s campaign are a very good metric of anything but stupidity.
And, according to some (cough) Rush (cough), it’s the Obama supporters who are racist, so Joe’s demonstrating that K’worth *is* full of racists (which wasn’t my point anyway).
thanks anon, had a feeling it was that way, but now I know for sure. add Highland Park to the list. (not a legal way, that I know)
“Dude, I understand. And New Trier Township is a fine place. I just think you would be more likely to like your neighbors in Wilmette than in K’worth.”
Wilmette is cool and the homes are cheaper but taxes are the same i have noticed. and there are some sweet brick bungalows still there cheap. but i am still in the camp if i sacrifice i will only settle for the top.
Instead of wilmette, in my mind, i would rather move to oriole park for k-8 then head out to new trier for 9-12.
if OP/River forest had a Top High school, we would already be living there:)
“(or, at least, the intertubez vision of you)”
the intertube groove and the real groove are pretty close to each other. i am a very open person…the only thing i need to lie about on the intertube version of groove is how much i hate bucktown!
“In 5 years in Kenilworth, and another 15 in Wilmette, I’ve never heard a racial or religious slur or seen anyone treated badly”
funny cause in my hood in chicago i hear it all the time and see racism and, for lack of a better phrase-reverse racism. even in the ghetto where we are at racism is there the grooves have been talked about behind our backs in a racist way by some of our neighbors.
i guess in chicago people dont try and hide their racist nature.
anon (tfo)
Your point, you said, was that Kenilworth people are racist snobs.
How much time have you spent there or with people who live there or grew up there?
The biggest racists I’ve met from Chicago usually are from one of three neighborhoods, in this order: Mt. Greenwood, Beverly & Bridgeport. They tend to drop the N-bomb like it’s going out of fashion.
“Your point, you said, was that Kenilworth people are racist snobs.”
Sarcasm isn’t your strong point, is it? Is that why you delete so many people on your webby? A defective irony detector?
Groove77:
What exactly is bad about OP/RF high school? Maybe my expectations are really low given I know what it means to really have a crappy high school, so when I hear people say OP/RF not being a “top school” I often wonder what they are using as a baseline. Yeah, it probably ain’t a New Trier since it is a little more diverse in population, but neither are 99.9% of most high schools. But for a public high school, it seems just fine from what I can tell.
Groovester~
If you and the Mrs. do flee, do have a tentative Top 3 burb list in place? If so, can I ask what it is and briefly why? Thanks 🙂
russ,
op/rf high school is a good school but from what i have read and have been hearing latley its been on a decline each year worse than the other. And now the gang problem there is getting worse. for that i could just stay in chicago.
Joe Z,
I like your website and all (keep it up) but there is a lack of discourse that i look for. I will still visit once a week and post occasionally.
HD,
“The biggest racists I’ve met from Chicago”
well for me its the mexican community. dude the racist stuff they say is crazy, not to mention how they act towards other races.
MrsB:
I’d previously gotten the impression you were fleeing the metro. Was I wrong, or is it a change in plans?
“a tentative Top 3 burb list in place?”
MrsB are looking for a top three or my top 3 (what i could afford)?
I think that impression was more the stigma of selling a 2/2, picture of a crib, etc., then anything ele, but nevertheless I think at one point a while ago, that *was* the plan. But without getting too personal, our plans have changed and we’re honestly not sure what’s in the cards for the B’s. Admittedly, I have been looking into the hoops I must jump for a CPS pre-school/elementary versus the prices we must pay for private schools, and I’m almost of the mindset that the burbs are “have to” for us at some point. However, I’m always looking for options, which is why I spend a lot of time reading CC. Such a wealth of info.
Ah Groove, good distinction – I hadn’t thought of that; I suppose I was looking more toward what you can afford.
The ‘burbs are a necessity for most parents who care about their childrens’ education yet do not have the means to pay for years of private schooling. There’s a reason the ‘burbs have nice school and the city has CPS. Don’t try to fight the system, just go with the flow. And do you really want your kids to grow up city kids anyway? it has such a negative connotation, even if they attended elite private schools.
MrsB–not trying to nose, just had myself confused.
For us, if we were bailing on the city, it’s be New Trier (tho prob not K’worth, if you couldn’t guess) if I could stomach staying in Cook, or one of the countyline towns (Hinsdale, Elmhurst, Highland Park, Deerfield) if I couldn’t.
“do you really want your kids to grow up city kids anyway? it has such a negative connotation, even if they attended elite private schools.”
Maybe among the elite folks from the NW burbs it does, but not to me.
No prob anon – I understand 🙂 My husband has a love for the SW/W burbs due to proximity to his job, i.e., it’d be a helluva a commute from the north – metra not an option. In this vein, I’m kind of partial to La Grange. But I’ve always had an affinity for New Trier (some college teammates of mine went there and loved it), so that’s lingering in the back of my head as well.
I’m trying HD, I’m trying to go with the flow. I find that wine helps.
See…THIS is why we need a get together! I want faces to these helpful names.
our top 4 on the list are
*Kenilworth-for the sears and new trier combo (only three homes below 600k)
*LincolnShire-for the Daniel wrigth/Adai E Stevenson combo (so far out but it gets you out of crook county)
*River Forest-for its amasing elem/middle schools, bieng close to chicago and the diverity in neighbor oak park (High school on a downward trend)
*Wheaton-has many good schools (so boring there)
for us the house needs to be under 600k (the cheaper the better), yes ms groove will need to go back to work, the emergancy private school fund will be cashed in, our “americanism lifestyle” will turn to a coupon clipping squeeze every penny lifestyle.
also Anon’s list includes hinsdale which for me is priced high and Elitism runs rampad, deerfield i would only go for the highschool, HP is a good option number 6 on my list, elmhurst is very pretty and good prices good schools but not good enough to get me out of chicago and would put mt prospect and elmhurst as a tie
Thank you, Groove. I hope that if you do end up in the burbs you’ll be happy and that all your sacrifices will be worth it. And believe it or not, I actually enjoy coupon clipping – I just like saving money. 😛
“The ‘burbs are a necessity for most parents who care about their childrens’ education yet do not have the means to pay for years of private schooling. There’s a reason the ‘burbs have nice school and the city has CPS. Don’t try to fight the system, just go with the flow”
And this is why city real estate prices are insane. There should be a discount to living in the city to accommodate the private school tuition, but during the bubble city real estate prices got bid up to such outrageous levels with people paying high prices with no regard for major life events.
At some point (typically when kids come along), the premium for owning a Chicago proper address becomes a liability. Unfortunately these people likely assumed or thought they could just cash out and take their appreciation and move on up in the real estate ponzi scheme. But of course the musical chairs game doesn’t go on forever.
Oh and I’m not talking about 1MM LP properties where the family has enough wealth to afford the private tuition I’m talking about 500k properties in decent ‘hoods like Bridgeport, Edison Park, Norwood Park, etc.
Also Groove I don’t think its proper of you to call Mexicans the most racist. Their neighborhoods are much safer than AA neighborhoods, generally and this is borne out in per capita violent crime statistics. I’d much rather live in a Mexican neighborhood than AA. Just because they don’t buy the PC Kool Aid pitched to white people by the MSM to make them feel guilty doesn’t make them racist, IMO. They have common sense and want to keep a certain element out of their neighborhoods and that in turns makes them safer, overall.
“hinsdale which for me is priced high and Elitism runs rampad”
Dude, K’worth is on your list. It’s Harvard calling Yale elitist.
“Dude, K’worth is on your list. It’s Harvard calling Yale elitist.”
hoping you wouldnt catch that 🙂
but i havent experianced kenilworth yet so only going off what i experainced in hinsdale and people from there. North shore has many uppity people IMO.
MrsB,
“I actually enjoy coupon clipping – I just like saving money”
we like saving money too and occasionaly do a good job at it. but we like our impulse buy’s and are in the camp of we dont mind paying a premium if its justified. the wife has every infomercial sweeper cleaner on TV 🙂
Bob,
leaving work now, i will have to rebuttal you tomorrow morning on that. or i will try to carve out some free time at half time tonight.
anon (tfo)
My irony detector’s fine, and I also know the difference between sarcasm and irony.
Taken as a whole your comments are extremely negative toward Kenilworth and suggest racial bias is likely to be encountered there.
Your feeble attempt to spin your way out of that untenable position just doesn’t cut it.
I repeat my earlier question – what level of personal familiarity do you have with Kenilworth?
To all who wonder about the shortage of comments on YoChicago –
We used to have the lengthy comment threads that you see at CC. The signal-to-noise ratio was as low as it often is here.
I feel strongly that people who have knowledge and are willing to share it shouldn’t be subject to attack by jackals nursing deep psychic wounds. The result – far fewer comments on Yo and an increase in traffic. You all can speculate all day long about my audience. I’ll open my server logs if Sabrina does the same and Sabrina can then inform you whether our sites draw more traffic than this one.
“I also know the difference between sarcasm and irony.”
Okay, Professor Zekas, please explain to me how I misused the terms. Make sure you use small words since I cam clearly a race-baiter who hates K’worth for no-good-reason.
Bonus points, Professor, if you can tell me whether the prior paragraph was sarcastic, ironic or something else. Show your work.
“Your feeble attempt to spin your way out of that untenable position just doesn’t cut it.”
No spin, my man. Thought tehGroove might be interested in the history of K’worth, and I was proven correct. I still contend that tehGroove would be happier in not-K’worth parts of NT, but who-the-hell-knows? Oh, wait, you, Professor, certainly know what evil lurks in the hearts of men, so you *must* know what community best suits tehGroove.
anon (tfo)
Your dripping-with-sarcasm reply can’t mask the fact that you suggested Kenilworth sellers are likely to discriminate. Or your outrageous claim that covenants that existed 60 years ago are “all you really need to know.” Does that hold for Hyde Park as well?
You’ve twice ducked my question about your personal familiarity with Kenilworth – do you have any?
groove77 said “LincolnShire-for the Daniel wrigth/Adai E Stevenson combo (so far out …”
If you are not hung up on the upscale name of L’shire there is an unbelievable value on a failed new subdivision just west of Stevenson south of Rte 22 in Wright/AES but in Buffalo Grove not L’shire. See 2 Daybreak Terrace in Villas of Chestnut Ridge where the model and first 2 homes were priced @$740K but failed. Red Seal got land cheap and is selling new 4br 3ba 3 car gar SFH for $459K base price (they had even better $/ft deals on the spec homes). Amazing value in phenomenal school districts.
“You’ve twice ducked my question about your personal familiarity with Kenilworth – do you have any?”
Explain the difference b/t irony and sarcam–using small words–first.
“The result – far fewer comments on Yo and an increase in traffic. You all can speculate all day long about my audience. I’ll open my server logs if Sabrina does the same and Sabrina can then inform you whether our sites draw more traffic than this one.”
Not necessary Joe.
Traffic ranks per Alexa.com
cribchatter.com
7 day avg 229,694
1 month avg 226,585
3 month avg 238,099
yochicago.com
7 day avg 842,247
1 month avg 731,026
3 month avg 633,489
I couldn’t tell you the actual difference in traffic that makes up 600,000 places in the rankings, perhaps somehow else knows, but it seems that CC is substantially better than Yo as far as traffic is concerned.
DC,
You’ll see a different result at the somewhat more-reliable compete.com:
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/yochicago.com+cribchatter.com/
Neither Alexa nor Compete is terribly useful. Nor do those sites account for the way our traffic is spread around YoChicago, NewHomeotebook.com/.net and our sizable presence at Flickr and YouTube.
lmaorotf, we have to nominate this thread for for some award at the end of the year. CC wins again.
looks like the space for CC is bigger than yo’s
revassal,
You’re correct – our niche (new construction) has a much smaller potential audience than CC’s real estate niche. Given the state of the market we’ve just recently begun to expand our focus to include resales.
We send traffic to CribChatter and CribChatter sends traffic to us, so there’s obviously overlap in the audience.
lol Groove…nice!
seems like evanston would be a good comprimise between the lily white boredom that is kenilworth, and the racist urban ghetto.
you know what’s kind of a cool northern suburb, highwood. good restaurants, old bars and you get to send your kids to HP. the housing there looks like it should be modestly priced. but who knows.
They pull over anyone who looks like they dont belong in Kenilworth. But mostly it’s hs kids from neighboring burbs driving beaters.
Highwood should be less expensive than it is. Highwood has a lot of potential and is getting better, but why bother when you can buy a house in Highland Park for about the same amount and have less problems with gangs.
Housing in Evanston has dropped tremendously in the less desirable areas. Nice city, with much smaller problems than Chicago.
Groove: Don’t overlook cute little Riverside in the western suburbs (just west of Berwyn.) It borders Brookfield Zoo on the west side. Great winding streets. Small town atmosphere yet a quick train ride downtown. There are houses available under $400,000 there. Many have architectural distinction. You could really be involved in the community there.
Wow- I go away a few hours and turn around and you all are talking about the traffic on Crib Chatter. ha! ha!
This is really interesting info to me because, frankly, I don’t look at this stuff very often (it’s been months since I did so.) So, it’s interesting that without all the bells and whistles (and YouTube videos) I’m doing pretty good against the Joe Zekas new construction juggernaut.
Personally, I believe it’s specifically because of the comments that people enjoy CC. It provides a lot of information (for good and for bad). People want to have a forum to discuss what is going on out there.
anon (tfo)
One form of irony is the unepected outcome, e.g. when one’s striving to be clever, or to deny the plain meaning of their words, or to respond to a factual challenge with an evasion, makes them appear a fool.
Irony is inherent in a situation. Sarcasm is created, usually in words. One of its forms is stating the opposite of what you believe, e.g., you’re really clever, anon, and would never puff yourself up by gratuitously defaming good people.
I’ve answered your challenge. Answer mine – do you have any personal knowledge of Kenilworth to back up your claims of bias?
“gratuitously defaming good people.”
How so? Where do I do that? “all you need to know” was overstating it, but its a comment thread on the tubez, not anything formal. Sorry ’bout that.
“when one’s striving to be clever … makes them appear a fool.”
So, no sense of humor. Explains much.
“Irony is inherent in a situation.”
Verbal irony? Or do you deny the concept?
“claims of bias”
Again, where? Don’t cite the 10:45 post, b/c that was a sarcastic response to HD.
I’m not alleging any current issues, I object to the history (more recent than “60 years ago”, as I understand it) and the openness of the wasp-only restrictions, enforced or enforceable or not.
Cribchatter is a lot more lively than YoChicago because it actually allows free flowing discussion as opposed to being run by some bitter old asshole who bans anyone who disagrees with him or says anything bad about his sponsors (new home developers). Hence, Cribchatter gets many more hits, attracts a regular crowd and features lively and interesting discussions. YoChicago on the other hand is basically a billboard for homebuilders and not much more. Just compare the comment counts on Cribchatter posts to those on YoChicago and its pretty obvious which site users prefer.
Wow. anon(tfo) has just outed himself/herself as an anti-White racist. I know the type, I grew up in Northbrook and witnessed first-hand the collectivism, self-segregation, nepotism, and sometimes outright hostility to Whites and Christians and their culture.
I’m not WASP, but Jewish jealousy and hatred for them is legendary. I also need to add that out of all the “ethnics” in Chicago post WW2, it was Jews that participated in “racist” white-flight from the city faster and more thoroughly than any other White ethnic group. Based on what’s also happening with apartheid in Israel, nobody should ever take a lecture on racism from a North Shore Jew.
“Dude, you realize that Kenilworth (as a whole) has deed restrictions (yes, unenforceable in court, but still) against jews and non-whites, etc.–basically everyone the oldtimers disapproved of. I think that’s all you really need to know.
Oh, and also, go read the parent comments about the Sears school at greatschools dot net (not the 5-star ones, the bad ones). Obviously, there’s a serious self-selection bias, but that doesn’t sound like the environment for tehGroove’s kid(s), even if it’s seriously exaggerated.”
anon (tfo)
You said:
Of course, there’s no way you can *make* the seller accept your offer, either. So someone who wanted to apply the restriction, could, but only when they’re the seller.
Was that sarcasm too? Have you heaerd of fair housing laws?
Restrictive convenants were pervasive throughout parts of Chicago and its suburbs and the balance of the country at a point in history. Your singling out Kenilworth for them reveals a lot about your point of view.
And, after your fourth ducking of my question I think you’ve answered it: you have absolutely zero knowledge of Kenilworth, only a pathetic bias.
Pete,
You do an outstanding job of illustrating why I banned you (or someone with your exact voice and screen name) from YoChicago.
And this thread beautifully illustrates the “free flowing discussion” you value – a dumb, hackeneyed, repetitive, fact-averse hate-fest. It’s the kind of discussion that people who just want to get on with buying a home find repellent. I’m happy for you that you’ve found a home here among like-minded souls.
Too many typos … time to quit this thread.
Man, Joe your not going to win an audience if you insult us, goes to the groove’s statement of unprofessionalism,
I can guarantee you Sabrina doesn’t like some of the comments, this thread probably being one of them for being off topic, but your just making an ass of yourself. Really go back.
Anon is bring documented history and others including myself have confirmed the racist nature of the north shore (is everybody a racist, no, should you avoid the place?, knowledge is power),
there is no problem his statement nor with his viewpoint, challenging him will not elucidate the cause of this racist attitude nor his reasons for relaying it, but acknowledging and resolving the historical issues can achieve change.
the best test for resolving the debate would be the groove going on yo and insulting it and the users and see if anybody besides Joe comments. (if its not deleted b4 anybody sees it) (Since joe is created this debate he as undoubtedly increased his numbers (since CC is more popular))
there hasn’t been one rule man hasn’t broken, fair housing laws, ha. who are you fooling. (that would be only you)
“It’s the kind of discussion that people who just want to get on with buying a home find repellent.”
Then they really owe us a big thank you, Joe. Unlike our repellent it is you who is the snake oil salesman selling stagnant water pools to bring the mosquitos.
I loved the commentary on your site when you were adamant that there was no RE downturn as late as earlier this year and would argue with much more sensible people. Of course now all your customers are going bankrupt because new home sales are almost at a standstill so you need to change your business model.
Look at this chart looks like JZ’s biz model has been doing some base jumping as of lately:
http://www.recharts.com/NewHomeSales.html
Look at that massive uptick this summer. Massive “green shoots”, haha.
Hey Joey:
Its “never been a better time to buy” new construction, has it?
http://www.economagic.com/chartg/cenc25/stagemon09.gif
😀
JZ: “Have you heaerd of fair housing laws?”
Do you understand standards of proof any better than you understand the different types of irony?
“a North Shore Jew”
Wrong-o, boy-o, but then there’ll be no convincing you, so that’s it for me.
anon (tfo)
For the record “north shore jew” are not my words. Disgusting of you to leave the impression that they are.
And yes, I practiced law for 5 years and understand standards of proof very well.
If not the north shore, then Buffalo Grove?
““a North Shore Jew””
Wrong-o, boy-o, but then there’ll be no convincing you, so that’s it for me.
“anon (tfo)
For the record “north shore jew” are not my words. Disgusting of you to leave the impression that they are.”
Joe: Honest, sincere apologies for that. Not my intent at all, but I see that mistake after posting it. Again, genuinely sorry about that. No sarcasm.
As to the second point, how you going to prove housing discrimination in selling a single, owner-occupied, house? Someone would have to be *seriously* dedicated to owning a particular house (to upfront the costs of initiating litgation) AND the seller would have to be absurdly sloppy in covering tracks.
umm ok where to start??????????
Mrsb.
“lol Groove…nice!” no serioulsy the woman has every swivel sweeper and shark cleaner, the old ones are in the garage attic 🙂 example of the groove family american consumerism over spending; funny i came home yesterday and wifey showed me the new scarf she bought to match her jacket (a jacket she weres maybe 5 times a year) it was $115 and that was on sale and i think a coupon was used also. the kicker its not even a fight the winter weather scarf its a Fashion scarf. Hey she is happy, we could afford it, and she is a great wife, so i just bite the lip smile. (the scarf does look cool)
Bob,
Sorry i was having to much fun with my son last night, He went to bed late and i watched the game until i fell asleep.
“Their neighborhoods are much safer than AA neighborhoods”
see the argument wasnt about a safe hood it was about racist people. your comment which in turn kind of showed your racism was of tilt.
now in my experiences in life, the most racist comments i ever HEARD came from Blacks, the Polish community, and Poor white people. (in that order)
Now the most racist ACTIONS i have seen come from Mexican community, asian community, and black community, Poor white folk (in that order)
one thing to remember; THESES ARE JUST MY EXPERIENCES! not the world outside of me 🙂
“THESES ARE JUST MY EXPERIENCES! not the world outside of me”
What do you know about your own experiences? I demand a detailed recounting of your entire life before I believe anything you say about your opinions–it’s not consistent with my understanding of your life.
Sabrina,
“Groove: Don’t overlook cute little Riverside in the western suburbs”
riverside is a good mix of blue colar and white collar families. groove likey a lot!
But I absolutly refuse to leave chicago and will only do so for a TOP SCHOOL.
like departingsuburbssoon threw out Buffalo grove, also a great burb! and there are so many great burbs (except iroc z-mullet McHenry county)
the groove family’s motivation to move is Schools and its easy to find an equvilent CPS elementary to most burb schools, (High schools another story).
If it wt was just to get out of the city and save money, i would be on some cheesey souless cul-de-sac in Plainfeild or montgomery.
joe z,
“What do you know about your own experiences? I demand a detailed recounting of your entire life before I believe anything you say about your opinions–it’s not consistent with my understanding of your life.”
thats sarcasim!!!!
“But I absolutly refuse to leave chicago and will only do so for a TOP SCHOOL.”
Naperville has very good schools if you can take the “cheesey souless cul-de-sacs”. There are some interesting older homes around the downtown area but they are pricey.
“Naperville has very good schools”
very true, but the top schools the houses are out of my price range.
and i did live in naperville for three months untill i couldnt take it anymore. (i wasnt married or had a kid at the time).
naperville i will always make fun of, but it as great amenites and good family vibe and family oriented. the river walk is sweet!
Groove77,
I am from Highland Park and I think it is a great alternative to Winnetka/Wilmette etc
The community is on the Lake, on the Metra line, and has terrific schools. There are also an abundance of homes on the market in a reasonable price range.
You can get a 3 bed 2 bath house with Central Air, walking distance to the Metra and the Lake (and possibly Ravinia Festival) for 300-500K. Yes, some may need some updating but most are move in ready
sabrina,
“Personally, I believe it’s specifically because of the comments that people enjoy CC”
and you are 100% correct, its the discourse that has my browser at work always open to CC. yes sometimes there are crazies out there (like me) that post but its easy to filter them out.
a YoChicago of sorts is nice for the videos but there are many times the author or interviewee states facts or things said about some hood are not true or not the whole truth. i would like to post a angry rebuttal but know i will get banned there.
at CC we have freedom of speech and i may disagree with someone but i learn so much from the disagreement. everyone on CC provides a view point and knowledge that each of us here benefit from. I thank you for that Sabrina and am glad you allow us to be us 🙂
kind of glad we didn’t get the Olympics
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/olympic-security-questioned-after-rio-violence-1805498.html
david,
HP is on our list, plus your not in crook county 🙂
the one thing that scares me are that homes are getting pretty cheap there. which has us wondering for one, why? and what will happen in the future.
Hi Groove77,
Yes, it is in Lake County. Prices are correcting like everywhere else in the country. You have to look at the longevity of the community, schools, amenities, and determine if Highland Park works for you.
Then, you can start researching the different areas. Typically, East Highland Park is preferred because of the proximity to the Lake Front, Parks, Ravinia Festival, and Botanic Gardens; however, the newer constructions homes tend to be in the West part of the town. You also can get a much larger yard in the West part of town.
Wow – this thread is an education all in itself! You guys have covered Real Estate, the Gold Standard, the History of Kenilworth, Racism and social segregation in Chicago neighborhoods… I’m impressed. (insert your preferred degree of sincerity or sarcasm here)
re: the original subject of this thread (235 Van Buren) I’ve been in several of the rental units here. These remind me a lot of the 1620/1700 Mich buildings with 2 important differences: Layout & location.
1. Layout. Now granted, I haven’t seen all the floor plans, but the ones I have seen, while *small* don’t seem to suffer from the stupidity of some of the 1620 floor plans (really, there are some idiotic and useless units there). The “soft loft” seems to not bother a lot of folks, so I don’t think that will be an issue.
2. Location. My clients still think 1600 is too far south – combined w/ crazy floor plans and that makes 1620 a loser, no matter how cheap (we had a $1500 2 bed/2ba w/ parking sit for 3 months!) But 235 Van Buren will attract those SYP’s who want to be close to work or union station.
Would I *buy* there? Meh. Not to live. It’s not for me – but I’d buy and rent it out.
Really its a pity though that the Developer didn’t go for bigger floor plans and fewer overall units.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled trolling.
Growing up with Jews in Northbrook, and now living in Chicago for over 20 years, I an tell you from experience that the ONLY people who complain about WASPs and even care to comment about those old deed restrictions are Jews.
“a North Shore Jew”
Wrong-o, boy-o, but then there’ll be no convincing you, so that’s it for me.”
Again, growing up with Jews in Northbrook, it is my experience that they are the most racist, self-segregating, collectivist, nepotistic people on the North Shore. The sign in front of the synagogues stating “We Stand With Israel (apartheid)” and the massive collectivist pressure put on Mark Kirk (R) to support their aims abroad…..nobody else on the North Shore can even come close to it. So to those Jews still whining about “racism” in Kenilworth, take a long look in the mirror.
“Anon is bring documented history and others including myself have confirmed the racist nature of the north shore.”
“I an tell you from experience that the ONLY people who complain about WASPs and even care to comment about those old deed restrictions are Jews.”
Wow. Just wow.
JZ–keep him in the ghetto or train to..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pak5ALMdkbE
My sons roommate bought preconstruction here–anyone know what it would cost to walk??
jf
wondering the same thing, due to close next month and considering walking but not sure if CMK can come after me for more. I’m told they can seek damages, meaning if they sell it for less than your contract you may be liable. Anyone else know if that is likely or not?
Got an email from the agent today with new pricing. The old pricing is at home so I can’t compare it, but the south facing 1 beds are starting at $211,900 now. This one is still listed for $250K plus $31K for parking.
As of now, around 230 out of 714 units have closed. That’s less than 1/3 of all units. 33%.
Based on VERY CONSERVATIVE calculations, the developer is paying
$300/month (average per unit) * 484 unsold units = $145,000 just in assessments to the association. Or at least they should be.
Add property tax bills for the second half of 2009 when the building was constructed they’ll have to pay back to current buyers…and add the construction loan for $160,000,000 due in early 2011.
This has FORECLOSURE written all over it. STAY AWAY!!!
70% sold now
Thanks to those with constructive input, the others are like 13 y.o. children but worse if that’s possible. I don’t know what it is about the internet and rudeness I guess the anonymity. Anyway, I’ve been looking at the building. I actually like it but agree the units are small. But the prices are good and assessments seem low but do people think they will go up?
They are throwing in parking now until the end of June also. I like this building because it’s close to my work and the price points are good for a second time buyer. However, I can’t afford the place currently unless they are able to take the parking price off and not offer it.
The sales person said it’s about 65% sold and I guess at 75% it’s turned over to the condo owners. I don’t know how all this works.
What are the risks of buying?
Can you haggle with price?
What are the positives and negatives?
Constructive comments are welcome, I lost a lot of my savings when I had to sell my first condo due to job change so I don’t want to make that mistake again.
Bryan: Perhaps you should just rent and see if you like the building and location? (as there are plenty of rentals there.)
Bryan,
Developers always low-ball the condo fees as a marketing strategy. At 75% ownership the condo board takes over. It will take them a year or so to figure out that they are woefully underfunded for capital reserves, and will have to start raising assessments.
You also get a little breather on property taxes, but then you’ll have to pay up once the city figures out what to charge.
Anyway, don’t bite off more than you can chew financially — renting is a great option.
Brian Said: Constructive comments are welcome, I lost a lot of my savings when I had to sell my first condo due to job change so I don’t want to make that mistake again.
I think you have just answered your own question.
Thank you for your guys great input. I will continue renting unless they slash prices by a material amount.
I live in the building and it is amazing. Everyone who comes to my unit on the 44th floor NE corner is impressed. There are some “lower” end finishes but why would you dump a TON of money into finishes in an up and coming location.
I think CMK did a great job and I LOVE living there. Close to union station, all the lines, whole foods, my gym target and more!
CANNOT beat it for the price– not to mention millennium park and lake shore are a 15 minute walk away, as well as state street shopping
Out of curiosity, were you able to haggle much on the price? I like the building but it’s out of my price range, barely.
a quick search of craigslist shows there are plenty of rentals available in this building, 1900/mo for a 2/1 that includes parking
looks like 1300 for a 1br (parking 250 extra LOL)
$250k for a small one bedroom, there’s so many better places that are closer to the lake and much cheaper b/c of all the short sales. This building is overpriced for what you get. Plus they underestimate what the assessments will cost once unit owners take over. I’ve done research and now I know it’s a sucker’s deal.
Not sure why there is so much negativity on this board. I’ve lived in the building for about 10 months and have no complaints. I bought a 1 bdr on the 18th floor with the northern view and a balcony. It’s perfect for a guy like me. Just a few years removed from college working in the Loop. Because I can walk I do not need a car so I’m saving on a car payment. Additionally, I can get to just about anywhere in the city by hopping on the L since all the lines are walking distance from the building. There are a bunch of colleges in the area so I’m hopeful that I could find a renter when I eventually move onto a house. For me it makes more since to walk to work 5 days a week and then take a train on the weekends to LP, Wrigleyville, or Bucktown. The time saved on the commute has made my decision worthwhile already.
I am not negative on the building just the pricing, there’s a lot of short sales out there and short sales coming, in that area and all over, so I think there’s better deals. And I think it’ll be hard to sell if you need to in the next 5 years, just look at this article from the trib:
In the eight-county Chicago area, 19 percent of mortgages — representing nearly 1 in 5 residential properties with a loan — are delinquent by at least one month, helping create an inventory of almost 204,000 homes at risk of reverting back to lenders, according to data provided to the Chicago Tribune by John Burns Real Estate Consulting in Irvine, Calif. That “shadow inventory,” as experts define distressed homes not yet put up for sale, is the largest in absolute terms for any metropolitan area in the country.
Based on its calculations, the firm believes that 80 percent of those homeowners eventually will lose their property, either through foreclosure or a short sale, in which the lender permits the home to be sold for less than the value of the loan.
For Cook, DeKalb, DuPage, Grundy, Kane, Kendall, McHenry and Will counties, the shadow inventory number translates to 22 months of distressed housing supply. The combined shadow inventory for Lake County and Kenosha County, Wis., where the delinquency rate is 18.4 percent, is more than 22,000 homes, or a 23-month supply.
“A fifth of people (in the Chicago area) aren’t paying their mortgage,” said Wayne Yamano, a vice president at John Burns. “Next year is when you’re going to have the most competition in the market and the proportion of distressed sales will be the highest.”
The Tribune provides some specific examples of distress in certain zip codes.
•In Evanston’s 60202 ZIP code, for example, only 0.55 percent of homes were foreclosed upon and reclaimed by lenders in June. However, almost 7 percent of mortgages were at least 90 days delinquent, putting the future of those homes at risk.
•In Chicago’s 60611 ZIP code, part of Chicago’s affluent Streeterville and Gold Coast neighborhood, only 0.52 percent of properties were bank-owned in June, but 5.31 percent of homeowners hadn’t paid their mortgages for 90 days.
And what about all those homeowners who want to sell and are “waiting” for the market to improve (which many are assuming will be “next spring” now)?
Some real estate agents say they’re seeing an increase in the number of financially strapped homeowners interested in listing their home as a short sale. They’re also fielding questions from traditional sellers who held their homes off the market this year with the expectation that their home will fetch a better price in 2011.
“I’m not sure that’s going to happen,” said Mary Ann Manna, an agent at American National Real Estate in West Chicago. “I know what’s out there and I know the pipeline is pretty full, and banks aren’t even putting all the properties they have on (the market). This is not over.”
yeah thanks we read sabrina’s post this morning you didn’t need to repost the whole thing…
No need to be an a**, I’m just trying to get feedback, oh but wait, you’re the idiot who rants and spews anti-Jew, anti-liberal stuff. I bet you’re one of the idiots that watches Fox News and believes it’s news, doesn’t believe Obama was born here, and are a teabagger, oh tea partier. Friggin loser. I’m a independent but crazies like you make me want to vote democratic.
“No need to be an a**, I’m just trying to get feedback, oh but wait, you’re the idiot who rants and spews anti-Jew, anti-liberal stuff. I bet you’re one of the idiots that watches Fox News and believes it’s news, doesn’t believe Obama was born here, and are a teabagger, oh tea partier. Friggin loser. I’m a independent but crazies like you make me want to vote democratic.”
Uh, I think you go the wrong guy there, bub. As you say, no need to be an ash.
Besides, it’s (a) standard internet etiquette to include a link to a story you quote from, and (b) questionable whether your brief introductory comment places the use of the lengthy quote into the category of fair use.
haha no I’m not a big fan of “group think” and I don’t watch any news, sorry you must have me confused with someone else.
wasnt YoYoChicago pimping themselves out to promote this place?
Groove–don’t say it again, lest we be blessed by a presence.
“Groove–don’t say it again, lest we be blessed by a presence.”
come on you dont want a link to a you tube video of somebody happy they signed away their life.
please i want to say it one more time let me do it, please. hear i go Jo…………
Are there any recent comments on 235 Van Buren? I’m considering purchasing a 2BR/2Ba as a vacation home. Do local Chicagoans feel 235 VB is a poor investment? I was told that the building is 70% sold, on solid financial footing, and seemed very nice.
City of Chicago requires one-way and two-way voice communication systems. All residential highrise buildings must have them installed by Jan 15 2015. Have they already installed them at 235? If not what is the plan for installation.