Vintage 3-Bedroom Duplex With a Rooftop Deck for $675K: 1920 N. Seminary in Lincoln Park
This 3-bedroom duplex up in the Seminary Flatiron building at 1920 N. Seminary in Lincoln Park came on the market in April 2022.
If it looks familiar, that’s because we have chattered about it several times over the years, the last time being in 2016.
Jenny was most correct on the pricing last time. Listed at $599,000, she commented: “I think this place will go for close to asking.”
It sold for $600,000.
See our chatter here.
Built in 1883, the Seminary Flatirons is listed on the National Register of Historic Places and has 8 units and an attached garage.
It has hardwood floors on the main level and exposed brick.
This unit has an open living and dining room, along with the kitchen and a full bath, on the first floor.
The kitchen has white cabinets with marble countertops, a peninsula with seating and stainless steel appliances including a 5-burner gas stove.
All three bedrooms are on the second floor and have custom closet organizers.
The primary bedroom has vintage decorative moldings and a bay window.
The third bedroom has a unique loft space accessed by a ladder.
The listing says the second floor bathroom has recently been renovated with a new walk-in-shower.
There is a new rooftop deck which is large enough to fit a seating and dining area and has city views.
It has the features buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and garage parking is included.
The listing says this building is just 1/4 mile from the Armitage brown line stop and is near the shops and restaurants of Clybourn. Whole Foods, Trader Joe’s and Aldi are nearby.
Listed at $675,000, is this a deal for 3-bedrooms with parking in Lincoln Park?
Lyn Harvie at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
Or see it at the Open House on Saturday May 7, from 10 am to 12 pm.
Unit #A: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1600 square feet (was 1550 square feet in 2009), duplex up
- Sold in March 1993 for $236,000
- Sold in February 2001 for $385,000
- Sold in June 2014 for $524,000
- Sold in August 2016 for $600,000
- Listed in April 2022 for $675,000 (includes garage parking)
- Assessments are now $428 a month (they were $343 a month in 2016 and $312 a month in 2009) includes exterior maintenance, lawn care, scavenger
- Taxes are now $11,613 (they were $9148 in 2016 and $5767 in 2009)
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 18×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 14×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×10 (second floor)
- Living/dining room: 20×17
- Kitchen: 10×12
- Laundry room: 12×7 (third floor)
- Rooftop deck (2016’s listing said it was 21×13)
The randumb original casing/trim/doors looks bad
Power washing part of the fence?
Access to the washer looks tight and the HW tank looks really small for a 3br. Should have gone with a on demand.
Kitchen is a hot mess
At this price point and lack of vintage, buyers are expecting a MBa, no?
1600sf is laughable, closer to 1300 on 3 levels. Don’t find this very family friendly, probably works for WFH DINKs
Pricing is based on 3% rates. The Proximity to TJ and the premium that entails not withstanding. Maybe they get luck with a koolaid drinker.
“Power washing part of the fence?”
Tell me about it. Right now, only a small but obvious part of our fence is power washed and it looks nuts. Was going to replace it, but quotes are (still) about double what I was expecting. Had lots of concrete work done last week, and was telling the head guy that the new concrete was really making the original fence look shabby. So the guy power washed part of it while he was washing the the patio before sealing, to show me how the fence might be brought back to life. He was right, but now I need to wash the whole thing.
This unit isn’t too bad all things considered. Roof deck might not be great for much of summer with those AC units cranking. I like the floors and the brick, but sort of a crazy contrast agasint all of the cheapish looking white. Dig the Obama art (08 sure was an electric moment in history to move to Chicago), though I’m wondering if political decor should be discouraged under Jenny’s No Religious Decor Rule (when I first looked at our current house, direct through the seller/no broker, they folks (who had lived here 45 years) had a giant (maybe 5 x 4′) framed painting of JC taking in a sunrise (Mormons) hanging where a TV would normally go).
“Pricing is based on 3% rates. The Proximity to TJ and the premium that entails not withstanding. Maybe they get luck with a koolaid drinker.”
This is not how rising rates will work on market psychology in this cycle. We are a monthly payment nation. You will still get approved for a certain monthly based on 5.6% rates. Then, that buyer, will start looking at properties that fit in with that monthly payment. This will be especially true if these rates “hold” at these higher levels. Initially, I think, some buyers may move to the sidelines to see if rates will fall again. But given the headlines and the Fed’s trajectory on raises, I don’t think many people believe rates are going to fall dramatically anytime soon. If anything they could continue to move higher.
If you could afford $700,000 monthly payment at 3% but a $575,000 at 5.6%, you won’t look at the $700,000 anymore. You will look solely at properties under $600,000. Upper price point properties should see slowing sales but only if there aren’t enough buyers who still qualify in that price bracket.
We have too much demand and not enough properties. It’s going to take a while for inventory to rise at the higher price point.
But “starter” property sales aren’t going to slow much with this strong job market. People have jobs, are getting pay raises, have the down payment. But they will now not look at the $500k house. They will look at the $400k houses. For those who are new to the home search, they won’t “know” that they could have bought the $500,000 property. It won’t matter that rates have risen.
They will go out with their agent to look at $400k homes and that’s it.
In Chicago, and its suburbs, there ARE properties in which you can move down. However, if you were intent on buying the cheapest unit in the Tribune Tower because that’s all you could afford, then at 5.6% you may be priced out and you’re out of luck living in that building. You will have to look elsewhere.
National home builders report this behavior every time rates rise. Buyers will move to a cheaper product, if it exists. Instead of the more expensive 2400 square foot home, they will move down to the 1800 square foot home so they still qualify on a monthly payment basis.
JohnnyU, you are assuming that somehow the price on the $700,000 property will have to fall TO the buyer. It will not, as long as there are enough buyers qualified to buy that $700,000 home at the higher rates. The $700,000 home will find a new pool of buyers, in other words.
Biggest risk is a recession/poor job market where the number of buyers declines.
“This is not how rising rates will work on market psychology in this cycle. We are a monthly payment nation”
Wrong on the first, correct on the second
“JohnnyU, you are assuming that somehow the price on the $700,000 property will have to fall TO the buyer. It will not, as long as there are enough buyers qualified to buy that $700,000 home at the higher rates. The $700,000 home will find a new pool of buyers, in other words.”
Not near term (Unicorns excluded)
You mentioned psychology before, unfortunately you’re using it incorrectly. Toby & Becky arent going to settle for a lesser place than their economic equals Chad & Trixe who had purchased at 3%. Its just not going to happen in the near term. Millennials are to vain and status conscious
The third floor is accessed by a ladder:
Perfect for grandma! Or for the baby! Yes, I can see scrambling up the ladder five times a night whenever the baby wakes up crying.
OK – aside from the awkwardness of a ladder (and the idea of my wife and me being over 50 and having to climb it), this is a good looking unit. I could see it being a good place for a wealthy young couple with no kids. Maybe not so much for people my age, though I finished the marathon in around 4 hours last year so I’m not out of shape. It’s just there’s a certain point in life, and maybe I’m there, when climbing a ladder to reach a loft just seems a bit “kid.” It kind of limits the appeal of this place beyond a certain demographic.
“Not near term (Unicorns excluded)”
You are wrong about how sellers will react. They will not need to lower their price to “find” a buyer. Inventory is low. This is not 2008. For instance, this 3-bedroom townhouse in Southport just came on the market.
Listed at $625,000
Last sold in 2020 for $580,000
Other unit in the complex under contract listed at $625,000. This is a front unit.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3543-N-Bosworth-Ave-60657/unit-A/home/13384074
There’s no other 3-bedroom townhouses on the market in Southport right now, as the other one in this complex is under contract. And certainly none at $625,000.
Are you telling me that they won’t get this price now that rates have risen? Come on. Even if $725,000 was their price point before rates rose, those buyers are now all moving down to the next price point and this is IT in Southport. Other 3 bedrooms for a lower price are condos and are on Ashland.
Will probably get multiple offers on this.
You are assuming there aren’t a dozen or more buyers who can still afford $625,000 even at 5.5%. That is a wrong assumption.
Also, prices will be sticky on the way down as even this blog has documented in the 2008-2012 time period. Will literally take YEARS for those prices to fall. Meanwhile, people need a place to live. And they are fearful of both 1) rising rents and 2) rising rates. Both will keep the buyers in the game, even if they now look at lower priced properties.
First thing to watch is rising inventory. When inventory gets to 6 months, it’s a buyers market again. We’re nowhere near that except on luxury units downtown like those in 840 N LSD. There is too much inventory in the luxury category even though they keep selling them in the Tribune, One Chicago and the St Regis.
In the neighborhoods, there’s simply nothing available and properties continue to sell fast.
“You mentioned psychology before, unfortunately you’re using it incorrectly. Toby & Becky arent going to settle for a lesser place than their economic equals Chad & Trixe who had purchased at 3%. Its just not going to happen in the near term. Millennials are to vain and status conscious”
So Toby & Becky are going to continue to rent while Chad & Trixie are owners? They’re going to stay in that apartment when the baby comes?
No. Life goes on. Toby & Becky are getting pay increases or new job with BIG pay increases. They can still buy at 5.5% but they won’t buy that $750,000 place. They will buy something cheaper. Still going to be a buyer in this market so sales don’t slow much.
Lower price range will remain hot and tight.
Builders still building the $750,000 to $850,000 new construction units in Lakeview. These could see a big slowdown as rates rise to 6%. There are a lot of them and not much distinguishes them from each other. Something to watch.
Still no single family homes on the market so inventory will remain tight for those.
Again, I’m having a hard time running this blog right now because of the low inventory. In Lakeview, there are only 236 properties on the market (available and not under contract or pending).
I’ve said before, when I started this blog there was over 2,000 properties on any given day to choose from in Lakeview alone.
It’s a completely different market in 2022.
Gary: No April update yet?
“Again, I’m having a hard time running this blog right now because of the low inventory.”
Maybe do some burbs? Or some check-in, “where are they now” posts about properties you’ve covered in the past that generated a lot of comments? If you take a trip, do some posts on properties in that location? For Chatter Alumni who have left the area, a guest post from where they live now?
“Maybe do some burbs?”
It’s just as bad, if not worse, out there. Lol.
Also, the posts I’ve done on the suburbs have never been popular. No one cares about the suburbs.
““Maybe do some burbs?”
It’s just as bad, if not worse, out there. Lol.”
Is it hot in Olympia Fields Flossmoor etc area where the grand folk supposedly were?
How about some listings from there.
For instance this listing
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Flossmoor/1038-Douglas-Ave-60422/home/12881275
Great that it’s walking distance to the Metro.
I pretty much dislike a ton else wise
questions for JohnnyU anontfo who are better at this
pic 7: why do we have the decorative racing stripe midway up the wall. Are we only supposed to have the stripes after we have crown molding at the ceiling?
pic 18: what type of element is on the baseboard. Is it a heating element?
pic 20: so conduit? really? or is it the age of the home and since maybe no wiring down there on construction and then heck I don’t know.
pic 24: dead grass
I wonder if this is an estate sale.
Happy Mothers Day.
“ You are wrong about how sellers will react. They will not need to lower their price to “find” a buyer. Inventory is low. This is not 2008. For instance, this 3-bedroom townhouse in Southport just came on the market.”
The other unit is slightly nicer. Let’s see where the unit you linked to sells for
“ No. Life goes on. Toby & Becky are getting pay increases or new job with BIG pay increases. They can still buy at 5.5% but they won’t buy that $750,000 place. They will buy something cheaper. Still going to be a buyer in this market so sales don’t slow much.”
Yes. You are fixated on the 0.5%.
They aren’t going to buy cheaper when it’s a downgrade to their apartment or what their peers have.
As far as “big” raises, they’re going to be on the chopping block as value> 5 years old $750k unit
Other than at the upper price point, the units are rinse repeat.
“ pic 20: so conduit? really? or is it the age of the home and since maybe no wiring down there on construction and then heck I don’t know.”
Surfaced mounted-cord mounding probably post construction. Not sure what’s going on with the walls, Looks like expansion joints but the spacing/layout/need is odd
“pic 7: why do we have the decorative racing stripe midway up the wall. Are we only supposed to have the stripes after we have crown molding at the ceiling?”
In the bathrooms as well. 90’s design?
“ pic 18: what type of element is on the baseboard. Is it a heating element?”
MBR has one as well, can’t tell on the third Br. Could be a remnant Built in 59, might not have had furnace/CA. Not seeing any supply/returns in the bedrooms
“ pic 24: dead grass”
Above ground pool?
““pic 7: why do we have the decorative racing stripe midway up the wall. Are we only supposed to have the stripes after we have crown molding at the ceiling?”
In the bathrooms as well. 90’s design?”
‘Chair rail’ Saw it in a lot of tract housing in the *80s*. Protects the wall, hides a seam, allows for two types of wallpaper, give the vaguest impression of wainscoting.
Pic 18[sic, 16]: think it’s a baseboard air vent–not the same here, but things that would retrofit: https://www.installerstore.com/Baseboard-Registers.html
Pic 20–looks like they glued paneling (maybe over rigid foam) to the concrete walls, and then ran the electric on top.
pic 24–in #25, it’s pretty narrow, so not a pool. I’d guess that’s where the dumpster (or dumpster bag) was for the reno.
The very picture of suburban external obsolescence–backing up to the Jr High driveway, next to a bank drivethru, across the street from a auto shop. Screams “single family rental” to me.
Taxes are almost 3/4 of the 80% mortgage @5%–if re-ass to the ask price, taxes would equal that mortgage.
[3542 Bosworth, unit A]
Sold Dec 27, 1999: $347,000
+”BETTER THAN NEW-IMPECCABLY RENOVATED” in 2011
+CPI = $591k.
A v D–D has the waaay better kitchen layout. D faces alley, A faces Bosworth.
“Yes. You are fixated on the 0.5%.
They aren’t going to buy cheaper when it’s a downgrade to their apartment or what their peers have.”
This blog mostly covers the GZ. It is top 20% of wage earners. You’re clueless about life if you think there aren’t high powered 2 career couples in their 20s and early 30s who won’t care that rates are at 5.5% or even 6%. Inventory is just too low. Anyone who understands basic economics understands you need much more inventory to get any movement lower in prices. There are THOUSANDS of tech workers moving to Chicago. Right now. Not mention finance, law, medical. We’re a diverse economy. And there are 236 properties for sale in all of Lakeview.
Lol.
“Is it hot in Olympia Fields Flossmoor etc area where the grand folk supposedly were?”
I’ve posted on Flossmoor in the past and no one has cared. Beautiful homes, good school district. Nice little downtown. Near some fabulous golf courses too. I have no idea what that market is like. I’m assuming it’s doing what Lake Forest has done, and rallied as everyone fled the city during the pandemic.
“This blog mostly covers the GZ. It is top 20% of wage earners. You’re clueless about life if you think there aren’t high powered 2 career couples in their 20s and early 30s who won’t care that rates are at 5.5% or even 6%. Inventory is just too low. Anyone who understands basic economics understands you need much more inventory to get any movement lower in prices. There are THOUSANDS of tech workers moving to Chicago. Right now. Not mention finance, law, medical. We’re a diverse economy. And there are 236 properties for sale in all of Lakeview.”
Top 20% doesnt = the top 0.5%
Other than the top 0.5%, please show me an example of anyone not caring that rates have shot up from Sub 3% to 5.5%. You must hang out with either really rich or really dumb people
Boeing is leaving Chicago
For the last time, if real wages are decreasing (which is true) + interest rates going up, where is the delta being made up, especially first time home buyers?
Funny how you arent talking about these folks portfolios any more as the Market and Bitcoin are in the toilet.
All the paper millionaires are vaporware
“Funny how you arent talking about these folks portfolios any more as the Market and Bitcoin are in the toilet.”
Oh, I’ll talk about it.
Luxury home buyers are impacted by stock market sell-offs. I would expect the upper bracket to slow. But interestingly, it hasn’t done much of that so far this year. The stock sell-off is picking up steam so perhaps some purchases are going to come to a halt now. But we are on track for the busiest year of the over $4 million homes since 2015, when they started tracking it. But it’s only May and the Nasdaq is now down over 20%.
Many CEOs from Chicago firms get paid in stock compensation. It’s been fun up until this year. But they will get cautious due to the stock sell-off not to mention China being shutdown (if they are global, like McDonald’s, for instance.)
“Other than the top 0.5%, please show me an example of anyone not caring that rates have shot up from Sub 3% to 5.5%. You must hang out with either really rich or really dumb people”
I never said no one cared. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I said it would bring MORE demand as people rushed out to buy with their locked in 4% rates. And that’s what we’re seeing as sales remain elevated and 50% of properties are going under contract within 2 weeks.
But in a few weeks, the rate locks expire and then the buyers WILL have to buy with 5.5% or even 6%. What happens then? They will no longer qualify for the higher priced property. So they won’t look at it. Their agent won’t take them to the $500,000 condo. She will take them to the $440,000 condo. If there are any on the market.
This is not LA where the higher rates means you are literally priced out of buying forever. No. You will just trade down. Price of the property is irrelevant. It will be what the monthly payment calculator tells you you can afford.
“ I never said no one cared. In fact, I said the exact opposite. I said it would bring MORE demand as people rushed out to buy with their locked in 4% rates. And that’s what we’re seeing as sales remain elevated and 50% of properties are going under contract within 2 weeks.”
Vs
“ You’re clueless about life if you think there aren’t high powered 2 career couples in their 20s and early 30s who won’t care that rates are at 5.5% or even 6%. ”
“Luxury home buyers are impacted by stock market sell-offs. I would expect the upper bracket to slow. But interestingly, it hasn’t done much of that so far this year. The stock sell-off is picking up steam so perhaps some purchases are going to come to a halt now. But we are on track for the busiest year of the over $4 million homes since 2015, when they started tracking it. But it’s only May and the Nasdaq is now down over 20%.“
How many +$4MM house have sold this year and what’s average # of sales? 30?
Wow ‘UUUUGE
“How many +$4MM house have sold this year and what’s average # of sales? 30?”
So glad you asked as another one just sold in the city. Apparently bought by an Abbott executive.
And One Chicago hasn’t even started its closings yet. Not sure how many they’ve sold at $4 million plus in there though. Prices started at $1 million and there are under 100 condos.
And yes, the data is for the Chicagoland area. Not just the city. We’re on a record pace after a record last year.
$4 million is a very high price point for Chicagoland.
From Dennis Rodkin today:
The condo was one of 45 Chicago-area homes sold for $4 million or more so far this year. It’s been a blistering pace for upper-end sales, already ahead of the record-busting 2021, when 101 homes sold in the $4 million-and-up category, compared with an average of 52 sales in the six years before the current housing boom. Including last year’s tally in the long-term average, the figure rises to 59 sales per calendar year, a number that this year’s market is on pace to surpass by the end of June.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/abbott-exec-john-ginascol-buys-41-million-michigan-avenue-condo-chicago
Yep people are rushing out who have already locked in. In your example of Toby and Becky, or whatever you called them, what was stopping them from locking in? If they weren’t locked in already, then they aren’t looking to buy. Plain and simple. And most people know that rates are rising.
But if they decide to buy in a few months and rates are at 6%, they will do what everyone throughout all of time has done. They will simply buy a different property. If they have two professional salaries, plenty available in their price point. Again, will depend on their qualifications by the lender.
We are incredibly lucky that in Chicago you CAN actually buy by just moving down in price point, unless there is nothing out there.
Believe it or not, people will still buy homes even with 10% mortgage rates. It happened all the time in the 1980s. Life happens. People want a bigger home to WFH. They want an extra bedroom because they are having a child. They want a dog but their condo building doesn’t allow it so they move. People get married and combine households. They get divorced and need a new household.
It’s the circle of life JohnnyU.
But higher rates will certainly slow the market. It did in 2018-2019. And some may no longer be able to buy new construction and have to drop out of contract there. But Chicago doesn’t have that much of that right now. There’s some in the suburbs, however. I wonder what will happen there.
Not surprising the upper, upper bracket is doing well. It however is apropos of nothing save for that group doing extremely well financially recently
“ Yep people are rushing out who have already locked in. In your example of Toby and Becky, or whatever you called them, what was stopping them from locking in? If they weren’t locked in already, then they aren’t looking to buy. Plain and simple. And most people know that rates are rising.”
Thanks for finally agreeing that the raising rate environment has pulled buyers forward. Anyone locking in now is at +5%.
“ But if they decide to buy in a few months and rates are at 6%, they will do what everyone throughout all of time has done. They will simply buy a different property. If they have two professional salaries, plenty available in their price point. Again, will depend on their qualifications by the lender.
We are incredibly lucky that in Chicago you CAN actually buy by just moving down in price point, unless there is nothing out there.
Believe it or not, people will still buy homes even with 10% mortgage rates. It happened all the time in the 1980s. Life happens. People want a bigger home to WFH. They want an extra bedroom because they are having a child. They want a dog but their condo building doesn’t allow it so they move. People get married and combine households. They get divorced and need a new household.”
I was too young to be in the market when rates were 10%, unlike you. Yes they bought, asking prices reflected the impact of rates for HMAM
So they want more/bigger but real wage growth is negative and inflation is up. Outside of rich parents how does that work.
If your thesis is correct, we should see places like Bronzeville pop.
“LA where the higher rates means you are literally priced out of buying forever.”
LA has already become the Soylent Green future? Huh.
When do they start turning the poorz into food?
We were far, far from being top 0.5% when we bought an LP condo in 1997 with a 7.5% mortgage. At the time, it didn’t seem too bad, and we eventually refinanced when rates fell. Remember, you’re not locked in at any given rate for the entire 30 years. Buyers know that.
The high rates now (comparative to where they’ve been the last 12 years) will probably have an impact on people like my wife and me, who until recently were thinking about possibly buying a small condo as a weekend place. Paying an extra $400 or $500 a month in interest (on top of the already high cost of assessment, taxes, and parking) is turning us off. I think eventually it will be a buyer’s market, and we’re not in a huge hurry.
“The high rates now (comparative to where they’ve been the last 12 years) will probably have an impact on people like my wife and me, who until recently were thinking about possibly buying a small condo as a weekend place.”
Sure. Second home buyers may now be priced out. Those extra few hundred of dollars can make a big difference.
If you don’t need the property to live in, no big deal with waiting. Especially as inventory is still at record lows. Why not wait until you have more choice in properties?
It will be interesting to see what happens to Fulton Market and West Loop as the tech sector slows. We have one of the largest tech industries in the country. Tons of jobs at Meta, Salesforce, Google, and others. What happens if they start laying off?
This tech bust could be more damaging nationwide than the one in 2000 which was mostly isolated in the Bay Area and NYC. Chicago was hardly touched by it. But now that all these companies have thousands of workers in satellite offices, and even work-from-anywhere, what happens when the layoffs are spread out among all the large and secondary cities?
What happens to Miami, which was trying to turn itself into a crypto capital, if cryptos blow up?
“Remember, you’re not locked in at any given rate for the entire 30 years. Buyers know that.”
What if the bond bull is over? What if we are now in a period with 20 years, or more, of rising rates and we never see 5.5% rates again?
What you knew as your reality for the last 30 years Dan #2, may not be the reality going forward. Someone in 1975 was NOT thinking, “gosh, if I buy now with an 8% mortgage rate, sometime over the next 30 years I’ll be able to refinance it for a much lower rate.” As rates didn’t fall under 10% again until the early 1990s.
“Refinancing” is an option only of the last 30 years.
This is why I think many people will want to buy sooner, rather than later, especially the longer these higher rates stick around. I’m not saying we’re there yet though. It’s only been a few weeks at this level. And maybe it WILL fall again. Buyers will wait and see. But what happens if a year from now they are still 5.5% or higher?
Behavior will eventually change.