We Love Private Terraces (and 3 Kitchens): 474 N. Lake Shore Drive in Streeterville
This 4 bedroom unit at 474 N. Lake Shore Drive in Streeterville has 3 exposures: west, east and south so you have city and lake views.
It also has a prime 800-square foot private terrace with a built-in grill, hot tub and Trex decking. Only units on the 16th floor have outdoor space in the building.
The listing says the 4500 square foot unit is a combined unit.
For those of you who like to cook, it has not just 1 but 3 kitchens.
The unit also has a unique private entry maid’s room.
On the market since April 2009, it has been reduced $196,000.
Kimberly Jones at Baird & Warner has the listing: See the pictures here.
Unit #1606: 4 bedrooms, 5 baths, 3 kitchens, 4500 square feet
- Sold in November 2005 for $1,002,500
- Originally listed in April 2009 for $1.995 million
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $1.799 million
- Assessments of $2439 a month (includes heat, a/c, cable, doorman and pool)
- Taxes of $13470
- Central Air
- It doesn’t list an in-unit washer/dryer but it is allowed in the building if it already doesn’t have it
- It says 4-car parking not sure if that is extra
- Exercise room: 23×20
1 Million in 2005???!!!!! Is that a typo? If not, the owner got a ridiculously AWESOME deal. Even now, 1 million for this unit is a complete steal.
meh, shoulda just bought the entire 16th floor.
Nice view of navy pier though.
been in the building, meh as to the quality of units etc. granted, it was a jr 1 bed…
3 kitchens? So, the person combined 3 units and left all the kitchens intact? That’s bizarre.
odd place, highly doubt it will fetch almost 2 mildo though for 4500 sqft it sure looks cramped
I’ve been in this unit (once, for a party). Really nice views for a not-super-high unit (and fortunate that the Spire didn’t get built, since it would have blocked a significant portion of the views–though you have to expect that something will get built on that site at some point, and almost certainly more than 16 stories!). Wraps around 3 sides, so mainly faces South, but also both east & west. The outside space is very unique (one of 2 like it in the entire building).
The only negatives: 1) decor is a bit unusual; 2) layout is also a bit less than ideal as I recall; 3) owning a $1.5 MM+ unit in a building that’s half comprised of studios & one bedrooms, and where few units other than some penthouses are worth more than $500K; 4) difficult parking garage–though this unit may have premium spots.
Hey Sabrina how about making a post so we can talk about Property Taxes??
“Hey Sabrina how about making a post so we can talk about Property Taxes??”
Unless I made a calculation error (possible), my taxes are up 10.94%, with a 0.63% increase in AV. Or about +10.25% with flat AV, in the City with no applicable special services districts.
oh so the bills got mailed today eh
One of the negative effects of so many years of one party rule in Cook County.
“anon (tfo) on November 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
“Hey Sabrina how about making a post so we can talk about Property Taxes??”
Unless I made a calculation error (possible), my taxes are up 10.94%, with a 0.63% increase in AV. Or about +10.25% with flat AV, in the City with no applicable special services districts.”
“oh so the bills got mailed today eh”
Tomorrow. But the levy was published yesterday. 4.627% in the City, ex. any special districts. K’worth is 5.288 (w/ Winnetka parks, 5.421). River Forest 7.542; Oak Park 8.278. All of those rates are lower than last year, but the much higher EqF means taxes payable are up, at flat AV.
“One of the negative effects of so many years of one party rule in Cook County. ”
Bwahahaha the property owners in Cook County are a captive audience to milk. They’re like equity holders in airline stock and the city and the leeches who vote for D are the unions!
I hope anonny takes a big tax hit. These social liberals need to pay a dear economic price for their idiotic beliefs and voting patterns.
“They’re like equity holders in airline stock”
“Airline stock” has a special feature allowing for a capital call?
“Tomorrow. But the levy was published yesterday. 4.627% in the City, ex. any special districts. K’worth is 5.288 (w/ Winnetka parks, 5.421). River Forest 7.542; Oak Park 8.278. All of those rates are lower than last year, but the much higher EqF means taxes payable are up, at flat AV”
WOW – OAK BROOK is 2.8% AND w/ award winning schools/services.
Property tax bills look like a pre-emptive strike by Rahmbo! He’s going to be a special ops form of King. The napoleon kind.
““Airline stock” has a special feature allowing for a capital call?”
No but the analogy was to illustrate that non-politically connected property owners in Crook County are the sucker in the three card monte. Other participants “in” on the game are union/city/government employees and people on public assistance.
Building looks like an old worn out corporate office. If you are spending $1mill + you need some character, charm, history in the building. Not some 1970s looking office tower with the footprint of an entire block.
“These social liberals need to pay a dear economic price for their idiotic beliefs and voting patterns.”
There’s a political way to espouse this belief and a douchebag way to do it. You sir, chose the latter.
I’d like to think there’s better things we could be doing around here than rooting for the downfall of anyone or any group just because you don’t agree with their political leanings.
I love beating liberal tree-huggers with dead baby seals.
Anyway, not to sound like a whiny liberal myself, but who pays $2500.00 in ASSESSMENTS. That could support a small family!
WTF the assesments + taxes are at $3651 to live in this place. I’ll pass for sure.
I used to work out in the club located here when it was a rental building around 1995 to 1998. I also often parked in the garage during that era and dont recall it being too tough. It was a decent club with a pool/hot tub. Not EBC special but it sure would be a nice in home amenity. The unit would have a great view of the fireworks and the tourist parade would pass by the front door each weekend. At that price I think that the new owners would want to upgrade at least one of the kitchens to something more current.
As for the 3 kitchens I suspect that the third one is the outdoor deck kitchen. If the second kitchen is still open to the unit they might be able to convert that one into a really nice office space while using the sink area for a wet bar option with a built in wine cooler. I have seen this done in other combined units to perfection. Especially great if open to the living room.
“I’d like to think there’s better things we could be doing around here than rooting for the downfall of anyone or any group just because you don’t agree with their political leanings.”
Yeah but its fun. And its the silver lining on the higher taxes in store for most all of us in the future. Its a big sh_t sandwich and we all have to take a bite, but if I get to see people whose ideology having to take a bite as well it lessens the taste for me.
I used to play battletech/red planet here in what is now the art gallery below this fugly POS building that looks like it belongs in NYC, back in 1995
anyone know wtf i’m talking about? if so, you are super cool in my book, LOL
You can bash people for their political ideology when it costs you money. In that case its not just ideology, but directly affecting your quality of life.
“I used to play battletech/red planet here in what is now the art gallery below this fugly POS building that looks like it belongs in NYC, back in 1995
anyone know wtf i’m talking about? if so, you are super cool in my book, LOL”
Heck yeah I do! I used to go once or twice a summer, probably more in the earlier 90’s IIRC. That place was the BEST
Okay, I’ll bite. What the hell is battletech/red planet?
“I used to play battletech/red planet here in what is now the art gallery below this fugly POS building that looks like it belongs in NYC, back in 1995 anyone know wtf i’m talking about? ”
My ex wife was in med school at NU and when I visited her, we would always go to Baja Beach Club in the same building – I always wondered what ever became of the nerds that would go to that weird videogame place… I guess I now know!!
“we would always go to Baja Beach Club ”
Ever talk to the shot girl? She was a Harvard Law grad, working at a big firm, and making about 50% of her law firm comp in non-reported tips working 2 or 3 nights a week.
“Ever talk to the shot girl? She was a Harvard Law grad, working at a big firm, and making about 50% of her law firm comp in non-reported tips working 2 or 3 nights a week.”
Anon – Don’t tell me that you fall for the “I’m just stripping my way thru med school” story as well. Id bet that there were multiple shot girls at the BBC and that the closest they got to anything relating to Ivy league was sitting in the front row of the bleachers at wrigley.
LMFAO! anon(tfo) is far more guillable around strippers than I ever would’ve imagined.
I guess knowledgeable != not guillable.
“Anon – Don’t tell me that you fall for the “I’m just stripping my way thru med school” story as well. Id bet that there were multiple shot girls at the BBC and that the closest they got to anything relating to Ivy league was sitting in the front row of the bleachers at wrigley.”
Never set foot in BBC. Met her elsewhere, booze free, during daylight hours. Checkable, confirmable identity (at the time; don’t remember her name now) thru other acquaintances. Was paying her LS debt off with the tip money, and regretted going to LS. Sure, may have been lying about the $$ at BBC, but why?
lots of 20 somethings have second jobs for extra cash. Most are not disciplined enough to be paying down low interest student loans. I’d bet she was actually financing her coke habit or expanding the lifestyle. Then again if she was disciplined enough to really have graduated from Harvard Law she might have actually been the exception to the rule.
My advice to her would have been simple. Put those extra hours in at the firm to move up to a senior level – then later to become a partner as quick as possible. That is the true pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Coming in slugggish and slightly hungover to a real big law firm job or being spotted there while selling shots by the higher ups might not improve your career at that firm. If she truly regretted going to LS then she was likely not very good at her job. Anon just guessing here but I wonder if there was a cause/effect relationship!
“lots of 20 somethings have second jobs for extra cash. Most are not disciplined enough to be paying down low interest student loans. I’d bet she was actually financing her coke habit or expanding the lifestyle. Then again if she was disciplined enough to really have graduated from Harvard Law she might have actually been the exception to the rule.
My advice to her would have been simple. Put those extra hours in at the firm to move up to a senior level – then later to become a partner as quick as possible. That is the true pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. ”
1. It was mid 90s, so the loans were not as nearly free as now; also, HLS was and is over the subsidized loan limit, so much of it would have been private at ~9%.
2. She wasn’t a drinker. Can’t rule out other drugs, as I didn’t know her that well, but didn’t seem the type.
3. If you don’t want to be partner (ie, you *know* you want to quit lawyering asap), you do what you can to free yourself from the yoke of the debt and then quit–wasn’t any amount of extra hours that would have led to a ~$30k+ post-tax bonus with a base pre-tax salary of ~$90k (ie, she wasn’t working at Kirkland).
4. “If she truly regretted going to LS then she was likely not very good at her job.”
If you truly believe this, you just haven’t met enough lawyers–or at least one’s who tell you the truth. It’s more than possible to be good at lawyering and hate it, just as it’s possible to love it and be awful. *Most* lawyers (nevermind non-practicing law school grads) I’ve met wouldn’t do it again.
I don’t know, anon, I believe you but I don’t believe that girl. Having gone to Harvard, it is VERY different than other schools. Every single person there (especially law/medical school) are ridiculously motivated and worked tirelessly to get there. I would bet a million dollars that nobody who actually got there and got through would be working at Baja Beach Club for real (although I got a job as a caterer for a month as a bet with a friend who didn’t think I could do “real” work). Maybe you misunderstood her and she said “Howard University”
“My advice to her would have been simple. Put those extra hours in at the firm to move up to a senior level – then later to become a partner as quick as possible. That is the true pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. ”
If law firms are anything like professional services firms 2% of each incoming class can expect to make partner in 13-15 year time. You’re essentially telling her to overweight her 2% chance and underweight/drop to zero her 30k cash/year side job.
Sounds like dumb advice from a NPV standpoint, assuming she was smart enough to be realistic about her chances (and sounds like she was).
These firms make $$$ for partners off the overconfidence of the younger staff who believe in that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if the stick it out and work another year of 80 hour workweeks. The reality is it doesn’t happen for most.
I’ll back anon up on the most lawyers not liking being a lawyer statement, if only ancedotally out of the pool of 30+ from the same graduating class that I know. All were employed out of school and now 5-6 of them have already switched gears under 10 years out.
I’m also w/clio that its not likely true. HBS when they stopped taking GMATs (re: W) quite possibly. But last I checked Harvard Medical and Law are an order of magnitude harder to gain admission to.
You better have perfect stats, been starting QB in HS, built a water filtration system for several African villages, etc. to get in there.
“I don’t know, anon, I believe you but I don’t believe that girl. Having gone to Harvard, it is VERY different than other schools.”
Look, I checked up on every part of the story *except* the BBC part (why would I go to BBC?) and the tip income part (obv.).
And why would someone who’s provably an HLS grad and provably working in a big firm make up a story like that? Sociopath, perhaps, but it wasn’t b/c she thought it would be impressive, or make her relatable or anything.
“The reality is it doesn’t happen for most.”
A graduate of Harvard Law School is not “most” – every single person in the law and medical school there is intelligent/motivated and could do better than Baja Beach club. Please…..
“I’ll back anon up on the most lawyers not liking being a lawyer statement, if only ancedotally out of the pool of 30+ from the same graduating class that I know. All were employed out of school and now 5-6 of them have already switched gears under 10 years out.”
That’s because its delayed adolescence. It provides a very structured environment right after college that most parental units approve of. So many jumping fido sheeple who don’t want to enter the real world follow this route.
A great story is this elementary school teacher who graduated from Robert Morris’ law school I made out with at a bar last Mardis Gras. I asked her why she wasn’t a lawyer and she said elementary special ed paid better. (She was also far hotter than most lawyers, most lawyers are either plain looking or ugly).
“A great story is this elementary school teacher who graduated from Robert Morris’ law school”
Neither of the Robert Morrises has a law school.
“Neither of the Robert Morrises has a law school.”
I forgot the name of it…its some law school downtown named afters someone without an undergrad. John Marshall I think.
“It’s more than possible to be good at lawyering and hate it, just as it’s possible to love it and be awful.”
Agree with this. Getting into HLS doesn’t require any predisposition to enjoying being a lawyer, let alone being an associate.
“*Most* lawyers (nevermind non-practicing law school grads) I’ve met wouldn’t do it again.”
This I don’t agree with, at least from my sample (I don’t know if the statement is re HLS and similar, or all lawyers, or all you know). True that very few are actually happy. The not happy group includes a couple of partners at top tier firms–it’s a high pressure lifestyle. I don’t many that truly wish they had not gone to law school, as opposed to being at various degrees of disgruntlement about their work. Most of the ones I know are still in the legal profession in some way, so maybe that’s a biased sample.
“I don’t know if the statement is re HLS and similar, or all lawyers, or all you know”
Those I know well enough to discuss such things. So maybe it’s a self-selected disgruntled group.
wow the owner must have been in some cave hiding. This place can no way sell above the 2005 price. Unless the 05 price was off as Clio seems to think, this is seriously over priced and the kitchen is hidious.
“the kitchen is hidious”
Which one?
Oh and Sonies: I absolutely played Battletech in the mall back in the day. Something like $15 for 15 minutes; I recall thinking that was the best business model, right up until LAN gaming came about.
North Pier I think it was called
“North Pier I think it was called”
Crazy! Crazy! Crazy! Crazy about north pieeeeieer!
If she truly went to Harvard she has all the skills needed to either make partner at the firm or to prove her abilities in the marketplace and capitalize on that in ANY number of ways in multiple extremely high paying environments. Companies will kill for someone with that pedigree! Her alleged 30k side cash might be a short term gain but it does come at the likely expense of growing professionally.
On the other hand she might have met Mr Big at that bar….
BTW anon I do know a thing or two about lawyers as I am married to a happy and very attractive lawyer. She went to JM and does quite well. From her experiences id say that the small Law firms have a way higher rate than 2% making partner.
“BTW anon I do know a thing or two about lawyers as I am married to a happy and very attractive lawyer. She went to JM and does quite well. From her experiences id say that the small Law firms have a way higher rate than 2% making partner.”
I made no statements about the chances of making partner, so no need to btw me on that point, nor did I make any assertions that there are no (or even few) lawyers who are happy, attractive or both.
I do think your exposure to JM and Small Law are skewing your perceptions of HLS grads and Big Law, especially wrt the supposed motivation, fit and marketability of individuals with a HLS degree as opposed to the degree itself separate from an actual person.
“BTW anon I do know a thing or two about lawyers as I am married to a happy and very attractive lawyer. She went to JM and does quite well. From her experiences id say that the small Law firms have a way higher rate than 2% making partner.”
It has been my experiences with lawyers from both the top law schools (HLS) and those at the bottom rung schools (JM)- that those who went to the bottom rung schools truly WANT to be lawyers and therefore are happier in the profession. The top law schools look for students who have “done something” and are more well-rounded. Those students are going to law school as a stepping stone with no idea what it means to actually be a practicing lawyer. They all want to “be” something else. These would be people like Jim Cramer and Bill Clinton (HLS and Yale, respectively.)
My friends have told me stories of meeting a Stanford law grad who worked as a writer on the Simpsons for 5 years prior to law school. How’s that person going to do conforming to BigLaw life? Not very well- I would think. There was another who was at NYU who had been chief of staff for the wife of the Vice President and had traveled all over the world with her. Again- do they REALLY want to be an actual lawyer? Unlikely.
But the JM grad really DOES want to do it. Doesn’t see it as a stepping stone to anything other than the career they’ve dreamed of.
Just my two cents having met lawyers from both of those schools.
“It has been my experiences with lawyers from both the top law schools (HLS) and those at the bottom rung schools (JM)- that those who went to the bottom rung schools truly WANT to be lawyers and therefore are happier in the profession.
…
Just my two cents having met lawyers from both of those schools.”
This is a fair general observation, in my experience.
Re: JDs wanting/ not wanting to be lawyers . . . For years I worked for Westlaw, whose halls were littered with 3rd Tier LS grads carrying giant LS debts making entry level pay as reference attys and customer service reps. They all said that practicing law wasn’t for them, but in reality it was sour grapes and the 3rd Tier degrees were nooses around their necks. Poor souls were renting apts in lousy areas of St. Paul for years on end, working graveyard shift at Westlaw, hating life. Hundreds of them. Made me glad I went to B-school instead.
I think us cool cats called it “NoPo”
lol
“It has been my experiences with lawyers from both the top law schools (HLS) and those at the bottom rung schools (JM)- that those who went to the bottom rung schools truly WANT to be lawyers and therefore are happier in the profession.
…
Just my two cents having met lawyers from both of those schools.”
“This is a fair general observation, in my experience.”
I know (well) exactly two people who went to JM. One is probably the happiest lawyer I know, she’s doing exactly what she wants to do and has no other ambitions. (She’s also a pretty recent grad FWIW.) The other falls in the class of disgruntled lawyers.
Is JM really that bad? If you’re going to work in Chicago for a regular firm, does it matter a lot whether you want to JM or whatever is middle tier (Loyola?).
Anon – fair call. I was in a hurry and combined several points in that paragraph. It was worded poorly as I did not mean to single you out on the happy and pretty comments.
Sabrina – great observation on the different rungs and potential experiences and motivations of those individuals.
All in all it is an expensive degree that may or may not lead to a direct job. How many science, econ, math, vet, MD, or art history majors are satisfied ten years out with the studies they chose at 18 or 20? In general it is still excellent training and a great test for an individual that can be used to gain entry into the marketplace. I’d hire a JD for many roles over an applicant without that background.
Sorry that my doubts about the shot girl from HLS got us so off track on this thread!
“Is JM really that bad? If you’re going to work in Chicago for a regular firm, does it matter a lot whether you want to JM or whatever is middle tier (Loyola?).”
Lurker here, but had to comment. I’m an adjunct at a middle tier Chicago school. It matters bc top students (who would in prior years be choosing among excellent offers) aren’t getting jobs at all. I could make all kinds of negative comments (e.g., what were you thinking when you decided to take on the debt of law school given the market?). However,it’s hard to personally smash the dreams of someone whose goal is to earn a modest amount of money doing public interest work or the like. Impractical? Sure. Would I recommend it? Not at all. Should they have known better? Yes, although I am not sure what else certain people could have done given their skill sets. While more realistic, “would you like fries with that?” is not a good choice, either. As one of my students said today, she sees herself years later, still living with her 2 roommates in a 3-BR apartment by Wrigley and being happy when she can write a check to pay the bills.
“id say that the small Law firms have a way higher rate than 2% making partner.”
My perception came from stats I read in a WSJ article awhile ago about Big6/5/4 accounting firms, so may not be comparable at all. But from what I’ve read BigLaw has a very high attrition rate related to partner track as well. Maybe not 98% but I’d bet its over 90 and closer to 95.
“But the JM grad really DOES want to do it. ”
The funny irony is that the gal I met would’ve rather been a lawyer. But already had an in at her government profession which happened to pay a lot better, according to her.
Only in Crook County do elementary teacher positions pay more than law professions I suppose. What a sad commentary on our local government.
But hey if it makes the parents happier that their kid’s teach is over-credentialed when they pay their exorbitant property taxes so be it.
“The top law schools look for students who have ‘done something’ and are more well-rounded.”
All law schools, from the top to the bottom, are looking primarily for one thing: the highest possible LSAT score. Period.
Sure, top schools like Northwestern claim to want students who’ve been out of college at least two years, but it’s their LSAT that opens the door, not whether they’ve “done something.” Yes, many top school grads did indeed do some impressive things before law school, but they’re the minority. Most of the Harvard, U of C, etc. grads I know (and that’s dozens) went straight from undergrad, to law school, to biglaw.
I also know several JMLS alumni. With rare exception, it was LSAT that landed them there, not any greater interest in actually practicing (I know one person who got into Northwestern, but opted for JMLS with a full ride). I do know plenty of JMLS grads who never should have gone, and now have $150k in loans that they’ll forever be trying to keep in hardship deferment. But I do know a few very successful JMLS grads, who also happen to be very happy about their career choices. But it’s the increasingly rare cases like them, and the “20% of IL judges went to JMLS” factoid, that cause hundreds of new students to flood the halls of JMLS each year (each paying about the same as Harvard students).
As for top school grads not “conforming” to biglaw life, I think that’s often more a function of either them having plenty of family money (and thus no debt motivation) or feeling like they’re too special (based on a lifetime of feeling special), or both. The most coveted biglaw recruit: the top school transfer. Their LSAT landed them at a lesser school, but their drive moved them up to a top school. In the end, the firm adds yet another top school grad to its roster, but one with (usually) a better work ethic, lesser (usually) sense of entitlement, and an (often) better personality (i.e., better to work with and, perhaps someday, better at charming clients).
I know this is a real estate blog, but I had to add another 2 cents into the discussion regarding top tier graduate (law/medicine) vs non-top tier schools.
The thing that separates someone that went to HLS vs some other school (ie Northwestern) is that the person at HLS is VERY different to begin with. Having gone to U of C undergrad and then Harvard/stanford for prof. school, I saw a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in the students from U. of C. undergrad and Harvard/Stanford- those kids ARE just better/different. No matter what they end up doing, it is going to be something great. Some in the medical school hated it – but then went to big time healthcare consulting. I knew a few people in the law school and one of them said that a lot of the graduates don’t even practice law but use it as a stepping stone to carve out a niche in whatever it is they want to do. The point is that they use the Harvard name to be the best at what it is they want to do – they certainly would not be a bar girl at BBC (if the lady we were talking about liked to strip and went to HLS, she probably would have started a strip club or done something a little more innovative) – that’s my experience and it is the truth.
Clio I fully agree with one exception. My second cousin was a HS brainiac that got a partial scholarship to Harvard. He played football and studied music. For the first 10 years out of school he excelled…. as a taxi driver. Bet he was rolling around town listening to NPR all day. Really liberal kid.
Not sure exactly what happened there! I’d have killed for that opportunity and it seemed like he did not create much value from the education he received.
I guess that if he were a good looking girl he might have been the shot girl/stripper instead of a taxi driver.
“Not sure exactly what happened there! I’d have killed for that opportunity and it seemed like he did not create much value from the education he received”
He probably owns a few radio stations or a compound in Montana/Wyoming – or is Obama’s undercover right hand man now!! Seriously, though, there are obviously going to be a few exceptions (mental illness knows no boundaries) but for the most part, these people usually end up doing something fantastic.
You make choices in life that will dramatically effect the outcome of your life. Some individuals with multiple skill sets and educational opportunities have little imagination or motivation. This was the case with my relative. the market did not reward this individual. Others with minimal education have a strong imagination and see the world with a very different lens. They are able to succeed and adapt as needed to be incredibly successful. The lack of education or formal training pushes them to excel well beyond expectations.
Charlie Trotter is a prime example. He had little formal culinary training when he started his restaurant and yet he became one of the culinary superstars of the United States.
I’ll hire a motivated and intelligent individual over a newly minted brainiac 7 out of 10 times. The entitlement and arrogance of most freshly minted MBA’s that I have met is unbelievable. They come out of school believing that they understand everything better than the rest of the world. After about 10 years out they often become very valuable individuals. At that point the classroom education has been complimented by real world education. Those classroom taught skills that they learned in school will then flourish.
“The entitlement and arrogance of most freshly minted MBA’s that I have met is unbelievable.”
Yeah I know. Like being arrogant enough to understand the difference between complement and compliment.
“At that point the classroom education has been complimented by real world education.”
Seriously do you know anything at all about top tier MBA programs? They don’t take too many students without real world professional work experience.
What was funny was during recruiting you could definitely tell the difference between the recruiters with MBAs and those without them (ie: you). The recruiters like you definitely had a chip on their shoulder towards MBAs. And in my experiences since it is much more pleasant to work with a boss with a graduate degree, because they “get it” with regard to higher education and professional development.
People like you with just a four year degree who rose through the ranks basically (for the most part) followed the path of least resistance with regard to their education and it definitely shows.
He paid $0 for 3 of those parking spaces, PS1, PS2, and PS38 so one may conclude they came with the unit. Their PIN’s are 17-10-222-007-1537, 17-10-222-007-1499, 17-10-222-007-1500. So this guy paid $1Million in 2005 for that combined unit AND 3 prime parking spaces.
“you could definitely tell the difference between the recruiters with MBAs and those without them (ie: you)”
Ahhh thanks again Bob you make this so easy! As usual you often overreact and actually end up defending my point perfectly. I do not know if you are, or are not, an MBA. It does not matter. In this example you took the same path as many well educated freshly minted MBA’s and proved my point. You chose to be the arrogant individual and state “the recruiters like you perhaps implying that I am a recruiter. Way to jump to conclusions Sparky! This is exactly the issue that I explained with the young MBA.
For the record I have never been in the recruiting or HR business. Nor have I ever implied that I am a recruiter. I’d urge you to go back and look at any of my posts over the last few years as that is not even close to what I do. I have not risen up thru the ranks either as I have been self employed and built two different successful businesses with multiple employees over the last 20 years. For the record I have been self employed for all but 4 years of my working life. I am not an MBA but I call it creating value for others. Perhaps you studied this in a textbook and can give me the proper name.
You my friend are the one who sometimes just does not “get it”. If you have read my posts over the years (as well as this one) you can clearly see that I am a huge advocate for higher education. Just based on my comment earlier in the thread about my wife’s own JM law program you could tell that I have great respect for her education and it’s value. I have only disrespected two things on education.
1. That my cousin that blew a Harvard education and chose to drive a taxi.
2. The arrogance of the freshly minted MBA.
The young MBA’s I have run into often do exactly what you did. Jump to conclusions prior to knowing all the facts. Even the ones that work for one or two years prior to entering the program do not have enough real world experiences to draw from at graduation to understand everything in business. It has happened over and over and over with multiple individuals I have personally had to work with. You can chalk it up to a chip on my shoulder if that makes you feel better. That was an easy shot but it is undeniable that there are often subtle things in business that can only be learned by doing them personally. There are many important lessons that can not be taught in a classroom. Clio might be the most educated poster on CC and I’d bet that he would even agree with that statement.
Based on some of your posts I am pretty confident that you are not a pleasant person to work with. I could be wrong. Perhaps you are far more civil to your coworkers than you are on this board. If we were all in Vegas I suspect that most cc’ers (that have read several of your posts) would set the civil coworker bet over/under line at even money. You my friend could use a brush up in being pleasant!
“Like being arrogant enough to understand the difference between complement and compliment.”
So, you’re the front desk dude in the Chevy Chase HomeAway ad?
Anon That was funny… I had to you tube the reference but it was money!
“There are many important lessons that can not be taught in a classroom. Clio might be the most educated poster on CC and I’d bet that he would even agree with that statement”
100% absolutely true – 90% of what I know was learned outside of the classroom. This becomes clearer and clearer the further you get away from your degree. If you did go to a great school, the only people that keep mentioning it and placeing such great importance on it are those who are insecure and feel as though their actions/words don’t reflect the quality of their education. That is their own personal issue/problem (and yes, I get the irony).
“Even the ones that work for one or two years prior to entering the program do not have enough real world experiences to draw from at graduation to understand everything in business. ”
Nice attempts at a straw-man:
1) Nobody graduates from MBA school understanding “everything in business”.
2) The vast majority of people matriculating to top-tier schools have over two years experience. The average is around five. Sure they obviously don’t have the deep pool of experience you do to draw from but you can’t minimize them by saying they don’t know jack about the real world because they’ve been there.
And when I was stating recruiters, perhaps I was misusing the word– I was talking about people coming to campus to give interviews, or those doing on-site interviews.
People love to minimize the value of an MBA, likely because its not rocket science to get one and it isn’t required to be an effective manager. But given the choice I’d take the MBA candidate over the undergrad one eight days out of the week. I’ve been around companies long enough to see several walking disasters and none, coincidentally, were MBAs.
(A lot of people tend to wind up in corp America by default I suspect and are none too happy about it, MBAs are not these people)
“People love to minimize the value of an MBA”
Bob – You bring up some fair points about experience but again you missed the more relevent point. I am not minimizing the value of an MBA and wonder why you are so sensitive about the subject. Apparently this subject is hitting a nerve. Whatever is bugging you just hang in there over time I’d bet that it will get better….
IMHO the real issue for MBA’s is that arrogance and entitlement that is so common when they are right out of school. If you notice I did not specify top tier or low tier schools just MBA’s. In my experiences early on right out of school they tend to be more of a distraction than a benefit. They want to preach theories that they have learned and cite case studies that have little relevence to the existing issue at hand.
Perhaps in corporate america fortune 500 companies where you might work it is very likely a much different situation. In those areas I am clearly not an expert and would not dare to profess any knowledge.
Walking disasters are everywhere and not limited to highly educated or uneducated people. One of the companies I represent just fired two MBA’s – a product manager and a op’s guy. They were both under 5 years out of school but not able to grasp what was happening in the marketplace. Neither one added value to that company. I was not glad to see them go but recognized that they were indeed walking disasters very quickly.
“and a op’s guy”
“not able to grasp what was happening in the marketplace. ”
In businesses I’ve worked the ops guys don’t need to know whats going on in the market place. Its their job to make sure things get done after they get the go-ahead from the product managers/marketing folks. Its also why perhaps ops generally doesn’t pull in the big bucks like brand or product mgt (at least not at lower levels): there is less risk.
Product managers getting canned is nothing new: if they have deliverables of whatever metrics on XYZ widgets and they don’t deliver those they are held to account.