What Happens to Sellers 2 Years After the Price Cuts? The Vetro at 611 S. Wells
The Vetro, at 611 S. Wells, in the South Loop became famous in Chicago real estate lore for being the first of the new construction high rises to 1) sell units at an auction and then 2) to slash prices dramatically to move the rest of the inventory during the height of the financial crisis.
Many buyers in 2009, as recounted in press accounts from the auction, believed they were getting a “deal” as unit sold for anywhere from 20% to 35% off the developer’s boom time prices.
You can re-live those days through our chatter about the auction, including info from people who were actually there.
But what happens when those buyers go to re-sell a couple of years later?
Unit #703, a 2 bedroom plus den on the terrace level, recently came on the market.
It last sold in May 2009, just 2 months after the auction.
At 1667 square feet, it has north, east and west exposure plus a 18×19 terrace and a balcony.
The kitchen has granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances. There are cherry floors throughout and exposed concrete ceilings. It has a marble master bath.
It has all the new construction finishes like central air, washer/dryer in the unit and deeded parking, which is included in the price.
The unit is listed $89,900 over the 2009 purchase price.
Will this unit command a premium just over 2 years later?
Judy Howard at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #703: 2 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 1667 square feet
- Sold in May 2009 for $410,000 (included the parking)
- Currently listed for $499,900 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $670 a month (includes gas, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $6,900
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Terrace: 18×19
- Bedroom #1: 11×15
- Bedroom #2: 10×14
- Den: 10×18
Nice place, but no way is it worth $500,000. The price is a joke. (Insert snide comment about the baby’s name over the crib.)
lovely view of the union station underpass from your den or whatever that is there in picture 8
if you’re going to spend half a mil in the south loop, why wouldn’t you just buy a townhouse in dearborn park? you’d probably save money and have a better living experience.
Also, I hate sellers like this.
Lastly, why buy a place only to try and sell it 2 years later?
I think its priced high to have room to negotiate. They will probably get their money out but that is it. If you want a profit from these units, they have to hold longer.
Missy said she put up some new blinds or something so that in her mind justifies her ask price. I wonder given her shrewd life planning if the happy couple even knows how the family addition showed up. Those darned storks show up at the most inopportune times.
I’m also curious to hear when she might be able to make money on this in a local’s view.
Good eyes Sonies : )
I don’t know where to start with this one. My head is about to explode.
“a local (November 18, 2011, 11:21 am)
I think its priced high to have room to negotiate. They will probably get their money out but that is it. If you want a profit from these units, they have to hold longer.”
Goooooood luck with that call.
$300k
$350k if they’re lucky.
Actually I think this is a great unit although I’d drywall the concrete ceilings. The location, well not so great. But it has a great outdoor space and parking. Much nicer than anything in Dearborn Park. And I agree the $499,000 price allows them to come down and maybe escape with their life. Taxes hurt this place.
In reality, pricing too high really gives you NO room to negotiate because no one will make an offer. Can’t negotiate without an offer, and if you’re priced too high, well, no offers for you, big guy.
Which again, begs the question, why, why, why, buy a 2 bedroom condo in 2009 when little baby is a distinct possibility in the *very* near future? Makes no sense to me. Seems DUMB. Really dumb, like not planning for tomorrow, at all. There is a future, and it’s almost here, and everyone needs to plan accordingly. And buying a small condo in 2009 when baby is a reality in 2011 seems like a terrible lack of foresight. I too live in a small unit in 2009 and baby became reality in 2010, but I RENT and I can move in 30 days notice if necessary.
I agree with HD. Also some potential buyers won’t even see the property as it exceeds the limits they are searching for.
“buy a 2 bedroom condo in 2009 when little baby is a distinct possibility in the *very* near future?”
Here is my scenario for a 2/2 (although not this unit, due to it’s high price):
1) Graduate college at 22
2) Parents help you with putting down 10% on a $250k 2/2 at the age of 25.
3) Live there with girlfriend/wife for 5-7 years.
4) Have first kid at 30-32.
5) Suffer for 12-18 months with baby in your 2/2
6) Move to SFH
That gives you enough time to own to justify the expense of buying (6-9 years).
Assuming you are buying now, and not in 2006, I think that can be a valid scenario for buying a 2/2.
BTW, is the SL elementary that bad that they cannot make the little one attend there?
“Which again, begs the question, why, why, why, buy a 2 bedroom condo in 2009 when little baby is a distinct possibility in the *very* near future?”
chuk: that seems reasonable. Except it requires a new crop of graduates in 7 years who can afford to buy the 2/2 from you. It’s been that way for a while but I don’t know if it will necessarily continue unabated for years to come. Especially since the trend seems to be graduates moving in the ‘rents.
Looks like they are trying to price this so that it will sell in line with 1905 which was a 2/2 at 1133 sq ft and sold for $300K with parking. However, on the 7th floor, with part of the unit overlooking the train tracks, I will tell you that when those trains are sitting there idling you can feel it in your bones. 19th floor facing west has to be better.
Not a fan of the building. Not a great location and the purple hallways (last time I was there) were a real turnoff.
is the sqrft# including the terrace?
i think it’s a nice place and pretty good sized. they shouldnt have too much issue with just one kid. location is ok bc it’s close to loop and printers row. overlooking train is a neg, and this area is becoming more desolate. also you got the river city tar baby just down the block.
“Which again, begs the question, why, why, why, buy a 2 bedroom condo in 2009 when little baby is a distinct possibility in the *very* near future?”
All I can think of is maybe someone bought a 2 bedroom in 2009, THEN meet the person of their dreams, got married, baby came along sooner than expected or didn’t have much time to wait (older couple?).
Icarus, that still does not answer HD’s question. If one is open to the idea of marriage and having kids and particularly if one is no spring chicken…lol… it is even more reason to not buy a place they redeem unsuitable for a family. Although personally I think 2/2 suffices for a family with a kid, but it is of course a personal preference.
“BTW, is the SL elementary that bad that they cannot make the little one attend there?”
I don’t have kids, but from what I read it’s good, but way too packed. Something like 37 kids per classroom. They are looking for expanding somehow, putting kids elsewhere, but no definitive plans yet.
Location for this is a deal breaker to me. Desolate area, cut off by train tracks, ugh.
“Especially since the trend seems to be graduates moving in the ‘rents.”
Well, I try to account for that with the 3 year gap from college (living at home). Assuming you actually have a job (let’s forget that debate for now), staying at home for 3 years should allow you to either save up some of that down payment yourself, or at least put a good dent in your student loans. This is pretty much what I did myself in the early 90’s, and it happened to work out really well due to the timing of the real estate market. Bought a condo for 170k a few years after college, and sold it for 340k in early 2000’s. For people that did this in 2005, the scenario is pretty much opposite (buy condo for 340k, sell it for 170k). For today’s 2/2 buyers, I think you will be buying condo for 250k, and it will be worth about the same in 5-7 years. Probably a wash in terms of renting, but for those that feel compelled to be owners, I think it will be OK.
The price seems to smack of greedy sellers who think they are better than everyone else in this market (20% profit after two years?). I would not want to deal with them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are the type who stick to their price, so the wife can have a big house in Naperville.
@Miumiu, I was just trying to make a guess. I haven’t looked anything up but what if it was a guy who bought…we generally don’t think about things like if how family-friendly a place is until we have one. Or if it was the lady, perhaps she literally gave up on ever finding Mr Right and then that Unviersal Jokester known as Fate stepped in and caused them to meet a week after the closing.
Or the simplier answer is these two should need a license to reproduce!
“Or the simplier answer is these two should need a license to reproduce!”
lol…I think some folks won’t mind regulating that too among other things ; )
“In reality, pricing too high really gives you NO room to negotiate because no one will make an offer. Can’t negotiate without an offer, and if you’re priced too high, well, no offers for you, big guy. ”
“The price seems to smack of greedy sellers who think they are better than everyone else in this market (20% profit after two years?). I would not want to deal with them”
Believe it or not, a lot of people don’t know this or even truly realize how bad the current market is. Yeah they see headlines but unless you are buying or selling a place, you treat it the same way a person who doesn’t like sports treats a headline about the Cubs/Sox/Bears.
So when someone tries to sell today, they go through a few stages:
Stage 1: My house is worth so much more than everyone else’s
Stage 2: Well I should at least get back every $1 I put into it
Stage 3: Okay I may not make any money, but perhaps I can have something for a DP on the next house
Stage 4: Geez, at least let me sell for enough to break even
Stage 5: Yikes, i have to bring how much to the table
chuks scenario has so many conditional ifs so as to make it laughable.
Still this is not the biggest disaster in vetro. Heck it isn’t even the biggest disaster on this floor. Remember the tokyo terrace? that one wad truly a cribchatter real home of genius…i wonder what ever happened to that guy..
“BTW, is the SL elementary that bad that they cannot make the little one attend there?”
“I don’t have kids, but from what I read it’s good, but way too packed. Something like 37 kids per classroom. They are looking for expanding somehow, putting kids elsewhere, but no definitive plans yet.”
School is pretty good. It’s a mix of gifted and neighborhood. I think the neighborhood portion is generally well regarded. I believe there’s a plan to deal with space byending the gifted program there–not taking new gifted classes though letting existing ones continue on. I thought it was a pretty firm plan but I’m not sure and haven’t checked.
Buying is so much more of a long term decision now. Buyers have to be thinking about the future what ifs – kids, schools, space, career/job progression, etc. However, you’d be surprised at how many folks still can’t see beyond two years in their lives. If you are buying, you better make sure it is a place you can hold on to for 7-10 years if necessary imho.
OT: The posts with recent comments feature looks good Sabrina. I like the way it’s implemented.
Russ is right. I’m actually considering going straight to the suburbs since it will be the home we’ll be in for at least a decade. [That and I’ve encountered a seller who is in Stage 2 and 3 above].
Stage 6: I can’t possibly bring that much to the table and because I have the SWPL golden retriever gene my kids upbringing takes precedence over all else including contracts. Even though I’m a desk jockey I’ll try my hand at landlording for awhile-how hard can it be afterall I have X degree(s)? Even if the rents don’t cover my all in ownership costs this will tide me over until the market snaps back.
Stage 7: wow this landlording thing is harder than I thought! Its not like spreadsheets or school papers at all! And I’ve been cash flow negative for x years on it now. We already live in naperville and have relatively new cars lets jusy mail in the keys on the condo.
And this is how an SWPL automaton/von neumann machine goes from RE giddy to RE gutter in only a few short years.
Yea Sonies, good eyes… especially since that picture is to the east yet miraculously we’re seeing the “union station underpass”. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lasalle+street+station+chicago
“I believe there’s a plan to deal with space by ending the gifted program there”
This plan is now a reality. SL is no longer accepting kids into the gifted program — it is being phased out. The current students will remain but no new classes. The school has became so popular that it couldn’t fit the RGC (regional gifted center) and the neighborhood programs together. There have been discussions about relocating the RGC but so far nothing concrete.
“BTW, is the SL elementary that bad that they cannot make the little one attend there?”
One might say that according to some measures/perceptions, SL is so good that very few suburban locations could compete with it.
Sold in May 2009 for $410,000
Currently listed for $499,900
::facepalm::
I like the unit, don’t like the price. I think it goes somewhere between the prior sale price and 375 or so.
Can’t speak to the quality of the location, but if one likes the SL, I suppose it seems o.k. The train issue aside (again, I don’t know what sort of impact it has on this unit), it seems like a pretty nice place. It’s not $500k nice, but I’d be pretty surprised if it goes for less than $400k.
As for the kid-in-a-condo issue…get a grip, folks. The subject property is perfectly suitable for one kid. It’s fairly big, has some outdoor space, and is all on one level (something that, unless it’s a ranch, is lacking in a SFH). But more importantly: why are you discussing schools? Unless they’ve kept the kid in the CRIB for years longer than most, they’re still two or three years away from needing to worry about it (or at least from worrying very much). The likely scenario is that they’re expecting another, and would prefer to not have a baby living in the master bedroom for several months (a situation that certainly won’t making selling the place any easier).
Assuming that they’re not moving to another part of the country for job reasons, I doubt they’re “buying power flat” sellers/buyers. They’re either cash negative, i.e., they’ve experienced a job loss and/or significant drop in income, and, if and when they can sell or rent this unit out, they’re looking to find a three+ bedroom with cheaper costs, likely in an affordable burb. Or they’re cash positive, i.e., they’re not relying on selling this place for their next downpayment and, in a few weeks when their bonus(es) bring the downpayment fund up to where they can pull the trigger on a jumbo-financed $800k-$1.2 million place, they’ll be buying a SFH near anon(tfo)’s hood or up in Dan#2’s neck of the woods. (The latter scenario describes at least three different couples I know, and their 2/2 to SHF moves. And note that none lived in their condos for more than a few years.)
Actually this is a pretty bad location in SL.
“Can’t speak to the quality of the location, but if one likes the SL, I suppose it seems o.k. “
“The subject property is perfectly suitable for one kid. It’s fairly big, has some outdoor space,”
Most parents I know would feel extremely uncomfortable with this combination of young child+open, high-story balcony. Personally I’m cool with it, but the aforementioned surely regard my hands-off attitude as DCFS-dime-drop-worthy at best.
If a kid is so stupid that it would climb over the ledge of a high rise patio, I don’t think that kid is going to do very well in the world when it grows up. Let it fall off now while it’s still young and the parents still have time to try for another replacement kid, who is hopefully more intelligent.
^^^Mom of the Year?
“Most parents I know would feel extremely uncomfortable with this combination of young child+open, high-story balcony. Personally I’m cool with it, but the aforementioned surely regard my hands-off attitude as DCFS-dime-drop-worthy at best.”
We would definitely have concerns at this time. Depends partly on the kid.
“If a kid is so stupid that it would climb over the ledge of a high rise patio, I don’t think that kid is going to do very well in the world when it grows up. Let it fall off now while it’s still young and the parents still have time to try for another replacement kid, who is hopefully more intelligent.”
Your parents had a ranch?
Isn’t this Printers Row?
and LOL @ jennys comment, comedic gold!
What is the gifted program??? I notice a lot of parents who watche their child grow and learn think they are “gifted”. Eventually, most end up as normal or above average and reality sets in. After all, there can only be one Doogie Houser.
Bought at a “discount” and despite all evidence contrary thought the residential market would bounce back quickly and would make a killing.
A 2/2 condo should be big enough for one kid. But if you’re thinking about another one, that’s when you get itchy to sell.
I agree the balcony is not a feature I’d want if I had toddlers around.
The trend in modern public schools is to do away with gifted programs so as to enforce a constant standard of mediocrity, just as the social engineering community activists prefer.
“The trend in modern public schools is to do away with gifted programs”
So, you’re calling CPS “not modern”? Is that a positive or a negative?
+1 for Jenny!!
Speaking of babies – the reason sellers over-price their homes, flying in the face of common sense, can be summed up as follows, from a very wise old Realtor I knew: “Every parent has the most beautiful baby on the block.”
Very interesting posts. I personally think many of the people that have posted here have very little to do with their time, than pass judgement on others. “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” This condo unit is beautiful, spacious and obviously well decorated. I pray that this couple is blessed with a grateful buyer.
God bless all of you and may your outlook on life improve in the future!
The trend in modern public schools is to look at their budget and say “we have to cut something”. An there’s a whole big list of things the law says you can’t cut.
This place might justify a premium to other 2/2s but a 200 thousand dollar premium is just being silly. I’d love to live in this building but prices would need to fall another 25% or so.
The terrace is tiny for this one–it has the smallest terrace of any unit on the 7th floor. It is useful for outdoor dining for up to six guests but thats about the extent of your entertaining. But Missy said she put up new blinds so she wants her 100k appreciation LMAO!
You are all a bunch of IDIOTS for criticizing someone who is selling their house. GET A LIFE. If you cannot say something nice then DON’T SAY ANYTHING (it reveals your lack of character and intelligence). I think this is a beautiful place and well worth the money. Are you a “bunch of cut-throat realtor” employees who gets their kicks and minimum wages by downgrading others. If the competition is too much then go someplace else with your SNIDE comments. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!
“Which again, begs the question, why, why, why, buy a 2 bedroom condo in 2009 when little baby is a distinct possibility in the *very* near future?”
That raises the question, not begs it. Two different things; begging a question is a logical fallacy based on assuming a proposition is true without evidence.
Rabid an IDIOT would be someone listing their place for 22% higher than what they paid for it two years prior and trying to justify it with new blinds. Also do you have any idea how many jobs the economy was shedding when this genius bought this?
But this idiot owner thinks the news jeadlines don’t apply to them. Just like they probably think their little snotling is going to be a great astronaut some day.
Missy was just seething mediocrity and now its time for her to pay the price for her stupid decisions.
I’ll be watching this one closely, since it’s the best comp for our Printer’s Row unit I’ve seen. Same square footage, although we have bigger rooms and no den, terrace is about the same size, and we have parrking. Some of our finishes are nicer, but our unit is a bit older. Bingo. I’ve worked with Judy Howard, and she generally knows her stuff.
Bob, you need to seriously STOP picking on this unit and it’s owners. You obviously are a hater of children. You seriously must have had a pitiful childhood; maybe you need to go to church and pray for forgiveness and GET A REAL LIFE. Sorry, “Bob” but your remarks truly reveal that YOU remain the IDIOT.
This unit has to be very difficult to heat. It has no unit and not even the garage below it…Just 6-story supports below. So, essentially it’s exposed on 4 out of six sides. N, E, W, and below. Any potential buyer should investigate the electric bills.
“Any potential buyer should investigate the electric bills.”
I thought the little electric heaters under windows were just supplemental.
Rabid, what exactly is your problem? Picking on delusional owners is what we do best. So Bob has an overly negative bent. Who cares? Do you think the owners give a rat’s ass what some poster on this board thinks? I would hope not.
The reality is since 2010 units in this tier sold for $387 (1/2010) (#1603), $326 (9/2010) (#1203), and $362 (4/2010) (#1103). The property certainly seems overpriced and it’s entertaining to speculate at what possessed these owners to put the unit on the market 2 years after purchase at such a large premium when we’ve been entrenched in a real estate depression.
PS I see now that this is a 3/2.5, but it would seem the price is off by at least a 100 grand.
Rabid sounds like he owes at vetro
“owes”
lol
” You are all a bunch of IDIOTS for criticizing someone who is selling their house. GET A LIFE. If you cannot say something nice then DON’T SAY ANYTHING”
Welcome to the Internet. If you actually believe that anger and shaming are effective ways to convince people to refrain from sharing their sarcasm and negative opinions, the Internet will make you very sad. Trolls will revel in your impotent rage. I suggest you stick to the 75% of the internet that doesn’t require you to deal with other people, ie porn and e-commerce. On second thought, you might get upset by user reviews too, stick to the porn and emailed videos of funny animals and babies. Good luck and may you bring lulz to internet trolls everywhere.
My understanding is that the baseboard electric heaters were wired for use in conjunction with the central heat. Some owners had them changed to separate controls. Either way, in a unit that exposed, I consider them more necessary than supplemental. Even if you could completely use the central heat, it gets expensive, as you’re paying for not just running the fan, but increased use of heating oil for the building. It shows up in an increased electric bill.
“Even if you could completely use the central heat, it gets expensive, as you’re paying for not just running the fan, but increased use of heating oil for the building. It shows up in an increased electric bill.”
I thought heat was included in the assessments (gas, not oil?). The electric for running the fan should be minimal. But I am far from an expert on this.
Penthouse unit 3105 had its ask price cut to 550k today from 585k previously. Iirc 550k is what they paid at auction.
#3105 paid $557,000 at auction, opening bid was $415,000.
Ask price cut to 485k on Monday. This seller is still gunning for 75k appreciation, or 18% since the 2009 auction. Reminds me of the lyrics from the Beatles song A Day in the Life: “nothings gonna change my world”
Penthouse unit #3105 is much more spacious and had its ask price cut to 525k. The owner of 703 is toast.
Unit 2204 came on the market on February 19th with an ask price of $289,900, plus 25k for parking for a total of $314,900. The owner got it at the auction for $265,000, so they’re asking for a 50k premium. I guess they think overall market conditions don’t apply to their unit, as the case shiller condo index is down 9% over that time period.
I think the auction buyers will get around auction prices today. I think they paid under market for the time they bought, but probably at market at today’s prices.
Sorry chuky boy, unit 3105 is listed for 525k but sold at that auction at 556k. Auction PPSF: $289, current ask PPSF: 273. Unit 2204 auction PPSF: 264, current ask PPSF: 314.
I didn’t mean specifically 3105. I think on average.
“I guess they think overall market conditions don’t apply to their unit, as the case shiller condo index is down 9% over that time period.”
And I would say they got around a 10% discount at auction so that would put them pretty much at today’s prices.
This unit is under contract.
Listed at $484,000. Looks like they’re going to get a premium to the 2009 price (even though we don’t know for sure- given that it hasn’t closed yet.) But seems likely.
“Listed at $484,000. Looks like they’re going to get a premium to the 2009 price (even though we don’t know for sure- given that it hasn’t closed yet.) But seems likely.”
You think closing at a 3% discount to penthouse unit #3105 for a 2/2 right above the parking garage seems likely? I’d say that seems doubtful.
Penthouse unit 3105 has 1,924sqft, ask of $260psf at 500k, same as auction average 3 years ago and still not under contract.
Unit 704 ask price is at $291ppsf. A full $30 above the average PPSF paid during the auction.
Stranger things have happened, but I don’t consider a property going under contract as indicative of anything other than a yahoo with big dreams (who apparently can’t stretch the extra 15k of leverage to live on the top floor).
We’ll see when it closes Bob. Perhaps a buyer came in at 20% under the list price and it still went under contract. I don’t know.
It only takes one buyer.
To put some perspective, the case shiller chicagoland condo index was at 134.86 in March 2009. At the time the likely available value was January 2009’s 142.17. Today it is at 100.09 for January data.
Sure properties don’t always track the index. But if this owner gets out without a significant haircut I’ll be shocked. Aghast if its only a few tens of thousands of dollars below the larger top floor unit.
I don’t know Bob. I am seeing a lot of units that I am tracking going under contract. We still have to see whether they close or not and at what price, but I see stuff moving after 2 years of very little action.
“Perhaps a buyer came in at 20% under the list price and it still went under contract. I don’t know.”
That’s the probable strategy of the seller. List for a premium and make the buyer think they’re getting a deal near the 2009 price. But that available penthouse should be killing that notion for any prospective buyer (who isn’t a yahoo).
“I don’t know Bob.”
This contract has me thoroughly confused. Unit 3105 sold the same day back in 2009 as unit 703. It’s a top floor (31) vs. a seventh floor unit that sold for 556k.
Today it’s listed for 500k, a 10% discount to 2009 auction price. And I’m supposed to believe unit 703 is going to sell for an 18% premium to auction price?
To quote the eunuch from a GoT episode last week: “It almost beggars belief.”
Unit 2204 is still listed five months later, reduced 30k to $259,900 but parking also $25k, for a total of $284,900.
Just enough to cover their transaction fees on their auction purchase (and note the crib! note the crib!).
Except I don’t think the market takes into account or is swayed by such things such as saving idiots from their irresponsible purchasing decisions.