A River North 2/2 is Listed $29,500 Under the 2005 Sales Price: 200 W. Grand
This 2-bedroom in the Grand on Grand Condominiums at 200 W. Grand in River North came on the market in February 2023.
Built in 2004 during the housing bubble, Grand on Grand has 106 units and attached garage parking.
It has 24/7 door staff, a sundeck and fitness center.
This unit is a “rarely available” southwest tier with city views from floor-to-ceiling windows.
It has an open kitchen with white cabinets, granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances and a breakfast bar.
There’s a dining room with wood built-ins and a dry bar in the living room, with white cabinets.
The unit has a balcony off the living/dining room.
The primary suite has a walk-in-closet and en suite bath with double vanity and soaking tub and shower.
The listing says recent updates include hardwood floors, which are throughout the unit, including the bedrooms, window treatments, the dining room built-ins, fresh paint, refrigerator, microwave, ceiling fans and lights.
The unit has the features buyers look for including washer/dryer in the unit, central air and garage parking is available for $25,000 extra.
This building is near the shops and restaurants of River North, the riverwalk and public transportation.
Listed in February 2023 for $455,000, it has been reduced $25,000 to $420,000.
If you include the parking, it’s also $29,500 under the 2005 selling price of $484,500, which did include the garage parking space.
MikeHG has talked in the comments about being willing to “buy low” in River North, or the West Loop.
Are the prices in River North “low” enough right now? Is this unit a deal at $29,500 under the 2005 price?
Layching Quek at Redfin has the listing. See the pictures and floor plan here.
Unit #2003: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1250 square feet
- Sold in December 2005 for $484,500 (included the parking)
- Sold in August 2013 for $442,000 (included the parking)
- Sold in June 2018 for $485,000 (included the parking)
- Originally listed in February 2023 for $455,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $420,000
- Assessments of $915 a month (includes heat, a/c, gas, doorman, cable, exercise room, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal, Internet)
- Taxes of $8244
- Garage parking space is $25,000 extra
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 13×18
- Bedroom #2: 10×13
- Living room: 14×12
- Dining room: 11×13
- Kitchen: 9×8
- Balcony
The bathroom tile is enough for me to say Nope
No where near 1250sf
This is overpriced by $20k
Why did you cut out “customized bedroom closets” LOL
This is why you dont buy 2/2 shitboxes. Owner is losing around $70k (+Improvements) if they get the ask
The exposed back of the stove is so laughably bad!
“This is overpriced by $20k”
Only $20k? Why not $40k? Or $50k?
What IS the price for a basic 2/2 in River North that they used to throw up by the dozens in the housing bubble era?
MikeHG says he wants to get one on the low. What does that even mean? River North was the epicenter of the housing bubble, along with the South Loop, and the prices haven’t gone anywhere in many buildings for 20 years. The 2013 buyer of this unit, which was near the lows, did okay selling in 2018. How “low” does the price have to go for it to be a similar “deal” in 2023 or 2024?
Is this a deal that MikeHG was saying he’d jump into?
I would gather it’s not as no one is rushing in to buy it listed at this price.
But the Chatterati also used to say that prices weren’t low enough in 2011 and 2012 when they were down, in some cases, 40% from the highs. Turns out, those were the lows.
Will $350k be the ultimate low in a River North 2/2 in a few years? Will that be “low” enough?
I don’t expect to see these kinds of deals in the hot West Loop, however. Different market there.
I’m not a fan of the white kitchen but the dark wood in the dining room. Those should be painted.
Needs a full renovation. Only thing nice are the views. The stove popping up above the counter is tragic. Cramped kitchen. Who the hell designed this kitchen? They should have been fired.
Are these iPhone pics? The listing is reminiscent of Crisis-era bank-owned stuff.
When buying an inexpensive stove (like the one in this kitchen), the consumer is typically given a choice between this style, with the high back featuring the controls, and the style with no back, with the controls along the front. We chose the latter, and while it isn’t the prestige level appliance that I had envisioned having at this stage of life, it works fine and I think the no-back concept actually looks pretty nice (far nicer than its refrigerator cousin).
“The exposed back of the stove is so laughably bad!”
No ventilation either oof…
Did someone cheap out and not get the slide in or was it always this way?
This unit looks very generic and vanilla. The views are also generic. So are the counters and appliances. A lot of work is needed, but I’m not sure why anyone would make the investment because it will still be a blah unit in a blah building. No wonder the value is down 18 years later.
And I challenge the listing’s insistence that this tier is “rarely available.” Show me the data. I see that said in a lot of condo listings, but why would any tier of a building be less available than any other tier?
I’d get it if there were, say only 10 3-bedroom units in a 100-unit high rise and this were one of them, but that doesn’t apply here.
A lot of work is needed, but I’m not sure why anyone would make the investment because it will still be a blah unit in a blah building. No wonder the value is down 18 years later.
But what if you got it for a much lower price? Would that make it worthwhile?
Would getting it at $350k or $375k make it “worth it”?
“Only $20k? Why not $40k? Or $50k?”
Look at the comps
“What IS the price for a basic 2/2 in River North that they used to throw up by the dozens in the housing bubble era?”
“I would gather it’s not as no one is rushing in to buy it listed at this price.”
So you agree its overpriced.
“Will $350k be the ultimate low in a River North 2/2 in a few years? Will that be “low” enough?”
No
The ultimate lows will be much, much lower. 2/2 shitboxes are starting their death spiral. Unless theres a major change, Its not going to be worth it to try and renovate these properties.
Buy you better buy know or be priced out forever
I wouldn’t buy a unit this lousy for any price. It might be different if it had great views – that can mean a lot. But it does’t.
“The ultimate lows will be much, much lower. 2/2 shitboxes are starting their death spiral. Unless theres a major change, Its not going to be worth it to try and renovate these properties.”
This is what everyone was saying during the actual housing bust when foreclosures were 40% of the sales and prices had plunged 40% to 50%. Still insisted it would go lower.
How will these River North boom era high rises go lower though? Just because you say so JohnnyU? What’s the catalyst?
We would need more short sales and foreclosures, to start. We need more inventory. But there are plenty of 2/2 “shitboxes”, as you call them JohnnyU, that are selling for above their prior purchase price all over the city. But not in River North. I would also add that South Loop price growth is also anemic over the last 20 years. It is not a surprise that two of the neighborhoods that were big bubble neighborhoods are still struggling to recover.
“This is what everyone was saying during the actual housing bust when foreclosures were 40% of the sales and prices had plunged 40% to 50%. Still insisted it would go lower.
How will these River North boom era high rises go lower though? Just because you say so JohnnyU? What’s the catalyst?”
They’ll keep closing at lower and lower prices, duh
“We would need more short sales and foreclosures, to start. We need more inventory. But there are plenty of 2/2 “shitboxes”, as you call them JohnnyU, that are selling for above their prior purchase price all over the city. But not in River North. I would also add that South Loop price growth is also anemic over the last 20 years. It is not a surprise that two of the neighborhoods that were big bubble neighborhoods are still struggling to recover.”
You dont need SS and foreclosures, you only need it to keep on its trend of a less than desirable neighborhood.
So you now agree that buying a 2/2 shitbox in RN & SL are terrible ideas Finally, There may be hope for you yet
Stove–was there just like that in the 2018 listing pix.
2103 just sold in October ($410k, inc parking) and the stove situation is much better, but the rest…
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/200-W-Grand-Ave-60654/unit-2103/home/26794663
Seller of 2103 was an original buyer–closing in Feb-05, for $441,500. No mortgage since 2012.
River North got overbuilt during the 2000-2007 feeding frenzy, and now is suffering from the after-effects of the pandemic that made living “close to work” less attractive.
Maybe if downtown working makes a real comeback someday, the better buildings in River North can revive somewhat. There may even be decent units in this building we’re discussing. The location is excellent if you want to be near the Loop and all of the attractions of River North and River West.
As a side note, my older son rents an apartment in Fulton Market and loves it, even though he has to reverse commute to the burbs for work! Downtown living is still a draw.
At what price point does it make better sense for a typical 30 year old newly engaged couple to buy this instead of renting a 2/2 at a brand new luxury apartment? According to Redfin if you got this for $420k (let’s say you negotiate the parking to be included), your monthly payment would be 4037 a month with an $84k Down payment. My guess is $400k all in gets this done no problem. I wouldn’t live here since everything is old compared to brand new apartment, but someone will see it as a fun DIY project.
“I wouldn’t live here since everything is old compared to brand new apartment, but someone will see it as a fun DIY project.”
What buyer would see it as a “fun” DIY project after putting down $84,000 when they are just 30 years old? How much more money do you think they have to fix it up so that it looks like a nearby luxury rental tower? It would need full kitchen and bathroom guts to get it to look like the rentals.
$400k gets it done when they have to put in another $50k?
I guess we’ll see.
“Maybe if downtown working makes a real comeback someday, the better buildings in River North can revive somewhat.”
It already HAS revived. Most companies are making employees go back anywhere from 1 to 4 days. If no one was going to work in the Loop, why are all the luxury rental buildings in the neighborhood fully leased? SOMEONE wants to live in this neighborhood, but they don’t want to buy 20 year old condos in the neighborhood.
“As a side note, my older son rents an apartment in Fulton Market and loves it, even though he has to reverse commute to the burbs for work! Downtown living is still a draw.”
Fulton Market is red hot with Millennials and GenZ. Hundreds more apartments still to come. I wish they’d build a condo tower or two though.
“Seller of 2103 was an original buyer–closing in Feb-05, for $441,500. No mortgage since 2012.”
Brutal. Buying in a bubble sucks.
“You dont need SS and foreclosures, you only need it to keep on its trend of a less than desirable neighborhood.”
But this isn’t true for every building in this neighborhood. There are plenty that are selling above the bubble prices. It’s a building by building basis.
Still no catalyst to have a complete collapse in several buildings but not all the others.
“So you now agree that buying a 2/2 shitbox in RN & SL are terrible ideas Finally, There may be hope for you yet”
Never said anything of the sort. Plenty of people living 20 years in their 2/2s in those neighborhoods and love it.
“Never said anything of the sort. Plenty of people living 20 years in their 2/2s in those neighborhoods and love it.”
That wasnt the question now was it.
“But this isn’t true for every building in this neighborhood. There are plenty that are selling above the bubble prices. It’s a building by building basis.
Still no catalyst to have a complete collapse in several buildings but not all the others.”
Oh but its is.
Whats plenty? I wont make the same sweeping absolute claims as you, however from what Ive seen, most selling above bubble pricing have had extensive renovations. Which means on net, they’re still in the hole.
The question is on timing. 2/2 shitboxes will collapse first and will be drag on the rest of the market.
As you like to point out, Chicago is not NY, plenty of area to build and it will be easier to build new Vs redo RN.
“$50k” for “full kitchen and bathroom guts”??? IN a high rise???
Since when?
““$50k” for “full kitchen and bathroom guts”??? IN a high rise???
Since when?”
Its just a number
“Since when?”
All depends on what type of finishes you choose. Small kitchen and baths.
“Whats plenty? I wont make the same sweeping absolute claims as you, however from what Ive seen, most selling above bubble pricing have had extensive renovations. Which means on net, they’re still in the hole.”
Yeah. 20 years later you have to update. The finishes are dated. It’s a neighborhood that has gone out of favor. If you want to get more money out you call Renovation Sells and at least do the basics. And, yes, it costs you money.
How do you know they’re still in the hole?
It’s a building by building basis.
Glad to hear about downtown working, Sabrina, though glad it’s not me.
I’m not a licensed and bonded interior designer but the exposed stove back can be hidden with a small spice rack or a humble brag display of hot sauces.