Not Your Average 4-Bedroom Condo in the Gold Coast: 21 E. Goethe
This unique 4 bedroom, 4 bath condo at 21 E. Goethe in the Gold Coast recently came on the market.
The triplex unit is located in an 1886 vintage rowhouse.
3 out of the 4 bedrooms appear to be on different floors, with the master on the second, one bedroom on the main and 2 in the lower level.
3 out of the 4 have ensuite bathrooms.
The kitchen and the dining room are also located in the lower level (with the living room on the main level.)
Not much of the vintage interior remains.
There are 2 wood burning fireplaces, however, including one in the master bedroom.
The kitchen has white cabinets and stainless steel appliances.
The unit also has a sunroom overlooking the garden.
The condo has central air, in-unit washer/dryer and a rare 2 parking spaces.
What’s the market for a unit like this?
Jane Field at Koenig & Strey Real Living has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #B: 4 bedrooms, 4 baths, 2625 square feet, 2 car parking included
- I can’t find any units called “B”- and the PIN for the listing is for Unit #A. But Unit A last sold in January 2006 for $535,000.
- Currently listed for $849,000
- Assessments of $744 a month (the association has 5 units)- includes water
- Taxes of $12663
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the Unit
- 2 wood burning fireplaces
- Bedroom #1: 22×19 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 17×15 (main level)
- Bedroom #3: 20×10 (lower level)
- Bedroom #4: 17×15 (lower level)
- Living room: 23×15 (main level)
- Kitchen: 14×9 (lower level)
- Dining room: 15×13 (lower level)
- Sunroom: 15×5 (main level)
Nice property. Parking alone worth 100K. Will sell quickly.
This feels like very early nineties…people moving back to the city, condos becoming more popular and a lot of townhouses were stripped of character and chopped up. The unit feels cramped and chopped up. Lots of weird angles on the walls. The location would not outweigh the location for me. I’d much prefer an open, bright condo in the GC, streeterville or RN before this. It almost feels suffocating.
Super narrow.
How are there five units in that building? Looks great. Lots of character.
It does seem narrow, but I think that there is a discount in the list price to reflect that. If you have to live in the Gold Cost and you need 4 bedrooms and you want to spend less than a million with reasonable assessments then this is a definite contender. Would be difficult for a family but I think that someone who wants to live in this area with a “smaller” budget might be willing to make compromises.
notClio, looks like it is at least 2 rowhouses melded into one condo association.
Sabrina told me I could hijack this thread today to announce a home price forecasting contest I am launching. The Case Shiller index came out this morning and as expected prices were down again. There is always so much debate about the direction of home prices that I decided to do something about it to coincide with this morning’s release.
I wanted to give people a chance to put up and I also wanted to see what the consensus is out there. So I created a prediction market for June Chicago home prices in order to run a contest with $500 in prize money to be divided amongst the top 3 contestants. You can play the game at http://CSForecast.com but it does require registration to play. How else do I track performance and pay out the winners? (I have a privacy policy in place that you can read)
You can read up on prediction markets on Wikipedia but they work like a futures market basically. Contestants push the market in the direction of their forecast by buying or selling “shares” in the Case Shiller index and make or lose money depending upon their forecasting skills. So now Clio can go long the Case Shiller index and G can short it and we can find out once and for all who really knows what’s going on.
new lows in chicago for case schiller this morning. but this is completely irrelevant right?
I like walking by places like this, lots of character on the outside. Cool looking building. I love when these places go on sale so that you can match the outside to the inside.
P.S. The photo of the realtor along the right side of the website kind of looks like a prison photograph.
Chicago condo valuations got absolutely slaughtered this morning, declining to an index value of 110.79 from a value of 117.17 last month, or a decline of 5.44% in one month.
The last time Chicago condos exhibited an index value of lower than 110.79 was in November 2000 when it was at 109.66.
The other cities in the Case Shiller condo index had much more subdued monthly declines of between half a percent (LA, Boston), a percent (NYC) & two percent (SF). This data, if not a statistical aberration, points to doom & gloom in the Chicago condo market.
“new lows in chicago for case schiller this morning. but this is completely irrelevant right?”
Two stories I gleam from the data: 1) Chicago condos got killed & 2) tough to call a trend from one data point but it appears there is bottoming going on in some cities, or at least stabilization. As January is a cold month I think it’s a good indicator of stabilization.
Cities with no or statistically insignificant decline or even an increase: DC, Atlanta, Boston, Las Vegas, Dallas.
“So now Clio can go long the Case Shiller index and G can short it and we can find out once and for all who really knows what’s going on.”
Ha! ha!
If anyone participates in Gary’s contest- please keep us informed. Sounds like fun!
“Two stories I gleam from the data: 1) Chicago condos got killed & 2) tough to call a trend from one data point but it appears there is bottoming going on in some cities, or at least stabilization. As January is a cold month I think it’s a good indicator of stabilization.
Cities with no or statistically insignificant decline or even an increase: DC, Atlanta, Boston, Las Vegas, Dallas.”
DC has been booming recently. I’ve had friends get into bidding wars (again) there. I feel sorry for them. I tell them to move somewhere else!
Las Vegas crashed quickly and appears to have reached a bottom- but it’s down about 60%. There was just a study done that said it will take 30 years to regain lost equity there. 30 years!
Chicago was slow to decline and so we’re also slow to hit the bottom.
“looks like it is at least 2 rowhouses melded into one condo association.”
I was trying to figure it out too- and thought it must be two of the rowhouses in one association.
Us fence sitters ‘missed’ the bottom. The old bottom that is. We await the ‘new’ bottom. Case Shiller 99 here we come.
“2) tough to call a trend from one data point but it appears there is bottoming going on in some cities, or at least stabilization. ”
Try telling that to potential buyers in DC, LA, SF & NYC! Prices are still fairly absurd there.
I looked at this about a month ago. Very charming from the outside, but totally 80s on the inside. We were told it was a 4 bedroom, but not so- only 3 unless you give up space in the living area which already is small and narrow. Biggest downer for us was the layout. You enter the home on the parlor floor, where there’s a narrow living space. The tiny kitchen is in the basement (or ground floor, which feels very basement-esque). This would never work for anyone with kids. I think it’s very overpriced compared to everything we looked at in the area.
Very nice architecture. I would expect a higher level of trim for a unit in this area, I don’t see any crown. The finishes do look late 90’s style not that there’s anything wrong with that. It should sell in the low 700’s.
““So now Clio can go long the Case Shiller index and G can short it and we can find out once and for all who really knows what’s going on.””
Are you guys retarded? (sorry Madeline). Seriously, who the fuck cares if CSI goes down – it is based on sales from last month or two months ago and is an AVERAGE across the city. Reality is TODAY in neighborhoods that are DESIRABLE!!! Find me the declining prices in the gold coast, old town, east lincoln park, streeterville, etc. – I look everyday for bargains in these areas and have found NOTHING!!! Gary, you should know better – are YOU seeing big declines in the GZ? Are you? If not, then you are promoting the false importance put on this stupid average!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself.
from the arial shot on redfin (I know, I know!…) it looked like 2 row houses within the red outline…
“I was trying to figure it out too- and thought it must be two of the rowhouses in one association.”
“So I created a prediction market for June Chicago home prices in order to run a contest with $500 in prize money to be divided amongst the top 3 contestants. You can play the game at http://CSForecast.com but it does require registration to play. How else do I track performance and pay out the winners? (I have a privacy policy in place that you can read)”
Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see anything that explain how the scoring happens. E.g., it’s 100 at the moment, I bet it will got to 110, it goes to 110, what do I get? What do I get if I had bet 105 or 100? Also, I assume this is not SA although I don’t think it says that.
There’s a fair amount of debate about the incentives for truth telling in these types of prediction “markets” especially when it’s prize based and doesn’t approach a true market in which you make value based on your own position (w/ or w/o being able to short). You make money here by being in the top 3, which may cause you to bet differently from your true beliefs if you think e.g. everyone else’s bets will be clustered around your true beliefs.
Saying who the fuck cares if case schiller is down because the green zone is fine is like saying that we should ignore declining auto sales because rolls royce and bentley sales are holding up.
“Saying who the fuck cares if case schiller is down because the green zone is fine is like saying that we should ignore declining auto sales because rolls royce and bentley sales are holding up.”
Uhh – exactly – what is your point? If you are in the market for a bentley or rolls royce – who cares if other Hyundai sales are down? It doesn’t matter. Again, I am not trying to “prop” up the market. In fact, I have gotten together privately with a couple of other CCers and we are trying desperately to find buildings/multi-families or condos to rehab. We haven’t found ANYTHING suitable or remotely desirable in the past 2 months. Everything is either a piece of crap, way too expensive, or in a terrible neighborhood. Any remotely decent place that is priced well is scooped up within hours. It is VERY FRUSTRATING – this is why I get so annoyed when I see all these morons spouting this idiotic data about prices crashing when I am not seeing it at all (and I go through EVERY FUCKING LISTING IN 60610, 60611, 60613, 60614, 60654, 60657 and even 60640 every FRICKIN DAY.
Very beautiful architecture on this one, I live right across the street. The only down here would be the annoying traffic that comes and goes because of the ambassador hotel. Otherwise great access to the lake and local parks.
“Gary, you should know better – are YOU seeing big declines in the GZ? Are you? If not, then you are promoting the false importance put on this stupid average!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself.”
I’m seeing pressure wherever I look. I’m seeing sellers that think they shouldn’t have to discount and then they sit for a long time. And I’m seeing prices in University Village where I live back to 2002 levels, which is on a par with what the index suggests.
clio no one disagrees with you as far as I can tell. Everyone recognizes you are talking apples while we are talking oranges. You just refuse to accept that oranges are 96 percent of what is really out there.
“Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see anything that explain how the scoring happens. E.g., it’s 100 at the moment, I bet it will got to 110, it goes to 110, what do I get? What do I get if I had bet 105 or 100? Also, I assume this is not SA although I don’t think it says that.”
If you buy in at 100 and it goes to 110 then you make a 10% profit even if you thought it was going to 120. It’s a function of where you buy, where you sell, and where the market settles.
Correct, it is not seasonally adjusted because that’s not the number usually reported in the media and I didn’t want to confuse people.
” And I’m seeing prices in University Village where I live back to 2002 levels, which is on a par with what the index suggests.”
First of all, you don’t answer the question – are you seeing huge price declines and bargains popping up in the gold coast, streeterville, old town, east lincoln park, and east lakeview? Of course not – and if you say you are, give some examples…. yeah, just as I thought
Second of all, where and what the hell is a university village? Is this around UIC – because if it is, that area is not desirable. It is like me saying that prices in Englewood are at 1980 levels. Ridiculous.
“new lows in chicago for case schiller this morning. but this is completely irrelevant right?”
SA tiered indexes are truly flat at this point. I had previously thought there were finer cuts on tiers (up to the upper bracket) but anyway…
11 118.73
12 118.53
1 118.43
Vs. 3/09 = 121. Basically 1% per year since that time. Not great, but is the sky falling?
“clio no one disagrees with you as far as I can tell. Everyone recognizes you are talking apples while we are talking oranges. You just refuse to accept that oranges are 96 percent of what is really out there.”
Thanks gringo – that makes me feel a little more confident in the people on this site – but don’t YOU agree that most people here are itching to buy in the green zone? Don’t you think we should be talking about the most desirable areas of chicago. After all, the vast majority of people on this site don’t seem like they are interested in living in any other areas. Or is there another site that only talks about the green zone – (greenzonechatter). That would be most useful to people
Clio just because you don’t want to hear about the market that 99.9 percent of the country lives in doesn’t make anybody a moron.
“This data, if not a statistical aberration, points to doom & gloom in the Chicago condo market.”
Yes not a strong market but wow that was a drop. Condos have all sorts of problems, not the least of which is duration risk (i.e., outgrowing) but also all the common element / association issues.
The whole addage, you have to live somewhere, doesn’t work as well for a condo owner who can walk and rent an apartment. For the SFH owner with 3 kids, its a little harder to find a rental equivalent and/or pull the kids out of school…
Anyway just be patient. It won’t be long til you can buy all the green zone properties you want.
Speaking of pressure, the areas I look at can barely sell a house over $300,000 but 90% of the homes listed are above that price. The simple search of homes with a price reduction within the last 30 days yields only a small handful of homes with very negligible reductions. Hilarious. One home in the area has been in a holding pattern for 9 months. Prices are collapsing (yes collapsing) and the owners think their crapshack is worth more than the nicer home for sale up the block for less money.
This data also means you are nuts if you think there is any chance of the fed raising rates anytime soon.
agree with Clio on this. We’ve been looking for investment properties in the same zip codes. Any places that have potential are snatched up immediately and come with mutliple offers.
I have three friends who are looking for primary residences in the million dollar plus range and are frustrated by the inventory right now. As Gary said, there are still realtors pricing too high and riding the market down. Of course, there is also a lot of mc crap boxes out there as well.
Right now I am seeing a lot of my friends opt to rent luxury properties until something good becomes available.
“If you buy in at 100 and it goes to 110 then you make a 10% profit even if you thought it was going to 120. It’s a function of where you buy, where you sell, and where the market settles.”
And if I think it’s going down, what do I do? Is there some shorting or similar mechanism? If not, if I thought it was going down smoothly, I’d buy in the last month I could, to minimize loss, yes?
WOW look at this post I wrote on cribchatter over two years ago.
It’s almost like I can see the future:
“homedelete on January 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
The shill’s argument that “they have more money, used less creative financing, and had bigger downpayments and savings accounts. ”
is nothing more than an ‘it’s different here’ argument. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
Wake me up when LP returns to 2003 pricing, so I can catch a little more sleep before it returns to 1999 pricing, just like nearly everywhere else in the country. LP is merely treading water, prices will fall across the board, it’s a tedious and painful process, like watching a slow train wreck.”
Condos at Dec 2000 pricing? We’re getting closer to 1999 every day. SFH in LP might be at 2003, thanks for waking me up. I’m going back to sleep now.
HD, here you go
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4108-N-Monticello-Ave-60618/home/13484564
“ight now I am seeing a lot of my friends opt to rent luxury properties until something good becomes available.”
Yes and they pay exhorbitant sums to do so. Like this place just down from the crappy “good not great” garden apartment listing. $7,800 with zero tax benefit? Ouch.
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/1537-W-George-CHICAGO-IL-60657-FN66NU2YYFWXG.html
I saw that Icarus. I hate when they don’t show pictures of the inside.
When the Federal Reserve monetizes the deficit, or makes zero interest rate money available….follow the money and where how it flows. It goes to either the government, the military-industrial complex, or the Wall St. big banks. They get their hands first on all the new money.
Therefore, DC and NYC should remain the most buoyant.
Probably the only other metro area that should remain healthy is Houston, because it’s long the energy sector.
“DC has been booming recently. I’ve had friends get into bidding wars (again) there. I feel sorry for them. I tell them to move somewhere else!”
“This data also means you are nuts if you think there is any chance of the fed raising rates anytime soon.”
true, but the fed will bluff about raising rates about ten thousand more times.
“are you seeing huge price declines and bargains popping up in the gold coast, streeterville, old town, east lincoln park, and east lakeview? Of course not – and if you say you are, give some examples…. yeah, just as I thought
Second of all, where and what the hell is a university village? Is this around UIC – because if it is, that area is not desirable. It is like me saying that prices in Englewood are at 1980 levels.”
Prices have definitely held up better in those areas. To answer the question specifically I’d have to do a lot more work than I have time for right now. But last time I studied The Heritage it looked to me like prices were down quite a bit. And I could bring up some specific situations in Oak Brook but a) it wouldn’t be appropriate right now and b) I don’t want to go there with you 🙂
University Village is near UIC and to say that that is not a desirable area is utter nonsense. We love it here and plenty of others do as well. Yeah, you’re talking apples and we’re talking oranges.
“I hate when they don’t show pictures of the inside.”
There’s usually a reason to omit interior photos.
“Speaking of pressure, the areas I look at can barely sell a house over $300,000 but 90% of the homes listed are above that price. The simple search of homes with a price reduction within the last 30 days yields only a small handful of homes with very negligible reductions. Hilarious. One home in the area has been in a holding pattern for 9 months. Prices are collapsing (yes collapsing) and the owners think their crapshack is worth more than the nicer home for sale up the block for less money.”
This is the crux of the issue. Huge bid/ask spread. So when you really want to sell you sell low and when you really want to buy you buy high. Price is set by the most desperate. That’s why both buyers and sellers are disappointed now.
“duration risk (i.e., outgrowing)”
Really? I suppose you could call it that, but analogy is a little tortured, no?
“And if I think it’s going down, what do I do? Is there some shorting or similar mechanism? If not, if I thought it was going down smoothly, I’d buy in the last month I could, to minimize loss, yes?”
Yes you short by predicting that prices will be lower than currently predicted. And you would want to reserve some funds to in case the prediction pops up so that you could short some more.
“I hate when they don’t show pictures of the inside.”
There is usually a reason. At that price, if it had good bones and assuming the listing updates are legit, it might be worth it to update the house.
Except I don’t think I want to live that side of Elston and if i have to be 3/4 of a mile from the blue line station, I’d really prefer to stop at Martini Club/Gale Street Inn when I get off the blue line. 😀
JMM-Yes they do pay a premium, but then they won’t have to turn around and try to sell in a year when something decent becomes available. That George place is a definite souless, crappy fixture mcmansion.
Yes and they pay exhorbitant sums to do so. Like this place just down from the crappy “good not great” garden apartment listing. $7,800 with zero tax benefit? Ouch.
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/1537-W-George-CHICAGO-IL-60657-FN66NU2YYFWXG.html
I agree. That’s why I just wait. Patience is key.
“Except I don’t think I want to live that side of Elston and if i have to be 3/4 of a mile from the blue line station, I’d really prefer to stop at Martini Club/Gale Street Inn when I get off the blue line. :D”
Why are people still overpaying for RE? These zip codes have produced losses for anyone who bought (most of the time cash flow negative) during the last 10 years. I know investors who bought cash-flow negative GZ properties, because that’s where the market was at the margin, and they’ve made no appreciation (unless they sold, how many did?) as of 2011. I recall thinking that after the slowdown from 9/11 attacks perhaps GZ investment properties might trade at 5% cap rates, finally. They NEVER did. Why bother with overpriced investments in these zip codes???? If someone had bought PSA, Public Storage REIT stock in 2001 instead of losing money or treading water on a GZ investment for 10 years, the REIT stock went from the 20’s to $108 per share today, paying a 3% dividend along the way.
“We’ve been looking for investment properties in the same zip codes. Any places that have potential are snatched up immediately and come with mutliple offers.”
I bet neither Case nor Schiller can find me a place to rent for under $3k/mo that meets all of the Unicorn Criteria. For that matter, I’m not seeing anything for sale for under $500k that meets the Unicorn Criteria. If I see a listing that meets the Unicorn Criteria for less than approx $450k, I’ll concede that the CS Index is relevant to prime areas. ($450k being approximately what I paid 6 months ago for a place that meets all Unicorn Criteria; if I can find a comp for less than that right now, that means that the value of such a property has continued to go down, as reflected by the latest gloomy CS Index.)
JMM,
That place would perhaps be relevant evidence in support of your assertion — if it actually rents for $7,800. As HD says, wake me up when it does.
You can list a place for whatever you want…
“Yes and they pay exorbitant sums to do so. Like this place just down from the crappy “good not great” garden apartment listing. $7,800 with zero tax benefit? Ouch.”
That $7,800 rental would probably best suit a corporate executive or foreigner who is in Chicago for a 18 month to 2 year assignment and can’t buy because of the short time frame. There are a decent amount of those people in the prime hoods, more than people would think, who are here for a short time period but also have lots of money.
annony
unicorns don’t exist – that’s why you’re having such a difficult time finding one.
however, gnomes do exist, in Zurich.
If you have a short time frame that you would need to own in Chicago, you might as well rent. I have friends who have been doing this over the past year and they have gotten phenomenal deals on luxury condo rentals, that are 20-25% lower than what you would have paid in 2007. They are banking this savings, and ammassing large sums for future investments.
“If I see a listing that meets the Unicorn Criteria for less than approx $450k, I’ll concede that the CS Index is relevant to prime areas.”
Do you see any recent sales at all that are a true comp, that meet but do not significantly exceed your criteria?
“Do you see any recent sales at all that are a true comp, that meet but do not significantly exceed your criteria?”
No, I have not.
There have been 14 detached houses that have rented for $5000 or more on the mls in Lakeview since 1/1/10.
There are currently 11 active listings. The market times of the 6 oldest listings are 128, 165, 230, 239, 342 & 834 days.
“Do you see any recent sales at all that are a true comp, that meet but do not significantly exceed your criteria?”
“No, I have not.”
Knife-catching 101.
Hate to admit it, but clio is right RE: Greenzone. Inventory of desirable, well priced SFHs is super tight, and good properties go fast.
Tons of cheap condos out there, but I don’t care: Too much risk being tied to other people’s balance sheets for the privilege of living in a glorified apartment.
Many others are correct too regarding fringe areas, including University Village. I realize that it’s a bloodbath in these less desirable areas. But I, like clio, have no desire to live in those areas. So his apples/oranges analogy makes sense to me.
I don’t think I am comparing apples to oranges here – people WANT to live in the green zone – so why don’t we concentrate on those areas? If you look at those areas – you will see that market activity is EXTREMELY HIGH right now – and, there are NO bargains at all (sure 10e ontario and 2 e delaware or 100e walton, 1000 NLSD are cheap) but I think we can all agree that those buildings are absolutely awful!!
“Knife-catching 101.”
G, care to elaborate? Do you have a list of Unicorn Criteria-compliant properties you’re currently tracking?
“you will see that market activity is EXTREMELY HIGH right now”
Based on what? You must be able to quanitify this statement.
“RE: Greenzone. Inventory of desirable, well priced SFHs is super tight, and good properties go fast. ”
When is that not true? When–exactly–have desirable, well-priced, non-short sale, SFHs NOT gone fast?
G- Look at how many properties have gone under contract in the past 15 days. You have the data – why don’t you publish it? Yeah, because it disproves your idiotic theories.
Clio, you’re not comparing apples to oranges. You being a whiney bitch because the scope of this discussion is broader than your own personal interest. If you want to bitch that Sabrina should limit all discussion to the “GZ” then that is fine, although stupid, but the fact is that the majority of us are interested in a MUCH broader scope of real estate.
Yes, it is possible to be happy and safe living in a so-called non GZ area. In fact, I prefer it as it limits my interaction with pretentious douches like you.
“G- Look at how many properties have gone under contract in the past 15 days. You have the data – why don’t you publish it? Yeah, because it disproves your idiotic theories.”
You don’t have any data supporting your claim, do you?
““looks like it is at least 2 rowhouses melded into one condo association.”
I was trying to figure it out too- and thought it must be two of the rowhouses in one association.”
PIN covers 21 and 23, so the building to the left is also part of the association.
Looking at the aerial, there is parking for 5 cars, so (at least) one of the 5 units doesn’t come with parking.
G – look at the MLS – you can easily find out how many properties are going under contract everyday. It is not my place to publish that information here – anyway, daddy has to go to work right now.
Under contract and sold are often 2 different things. Sales fall through all the time.
I agree with those who feel good inventory in upper brackets in desirable areas is very low. If you look between North Ave and Fullerton and then east of Halsted there are less then 20 SFH for sale under 3M. And out of those half of them are crap. And the other half taxes seem ridiculous. Does anyone feel that taxes are a major factor in making housing less affordable? I don’t feel that taxes are mentioned/discussed anywhere near as much as other driving factors like banks lending, unemployment, etc.
“G – look at the MLS – you can easily find out how many properties are going under contract everyday.”
Yes, you can.
Now, let’s check out your conclusion that “market activity is EXTREMELY HIGH right now” based upon “how many properties have gone under contract in the past 15 days.”
Attached & detached SFH contracts for March 14-28:
Lincoln Park
2007 93
2008 88
2009 43
2010 59
2011 58
Near North
2007 171
2008 117
2009 75
2010 99
2011 101
Loop
2007 254
2008 28
2009 14
2010 42
2011 27
Lakeview
2007 168
2008 93
2009 62
2010 97
2011 78
All of Chicago
2007 1,883
2008 1,131
2009 866
2010 1,268
2011 1,222
“Does anyone feel that taxes are a major factor in making housing less affordable?”
They are not unreasonable in Chicago for residential properties.
I have read that property taxes have doubled in the past decade in most areas, G do you have any data on the increases in Chicago year to year? Do you guys feel that they will double again in the next decade, even if prices remained the same?
Say you need 20k a year set aside for property taxes in a 1M house. By 2021, do you think you’ll need 40k to stay in that house?
How else will they pay for the massive pension and retirement benefits of the city and county workers? Taxes, taxes, taxes. This will destroy the city’s competitiveness in the long run.
“Do you guys feel that they will double again in the next decade, even if prices remained the same?”
It depends on who the people elect. Chicago and IL seem so irretrievably
Democrat, that tax increases appear baked into the cake. I’d like to think that we have a populace that could throw off the shackles, but because of lax immigration standards we’re sharing the city and state with a gigantic mass of people that like the welfare state and the pols that direct it for them, so we could be past the tipping point where a sane approach to budgets, taxation, welfare, etc could EVER be implemented.
I guess one could to look at how a Hugo Chavez handles RE taxation, that’s the likely model of the leader we’ll be getting going forward in Chicago and IL this century.
It doesn’t matter who the people elect. Either promises will be broken or taxes will go up. It’s not like Republicans can magically make the fiscal problem go away. If taxes don’t go up then services and entitlements will be reduced. Either way, we’re going to see less bang for our tax buck.
“If you look between North Ave and Fullerton and then east of Halsted there are less then 20 SFH for sale under 3M. And out of those half of them are crap. ”
Ignoring the two project houses on Hudson, which of the other 19 (counting u/c listings) do you think are “crap”? Or are they just overpriced?
It’s called living beyond your means. A lot of homeowners were/are guilty of it. Government is just as guilty…look at the national debt. Why would anyone in their right mind continue to loan money to the government via purchases of federal and municipal bonds? It’s like loaning money to your deadbeat cousin who you know is incapable of ultimatley paying you back.
Debts that cannot be repaid, will not be repaid.
Rahm’s going to sit down and like he said , have an adult conversation with the Unions, because neither have been truthful to each other. THe city overpromised and set aside to look and it will be impossible to fulfill those promises.
Moreover, the unions (other than the teamsters) supported Chico, not Rahm which doesn’t bode well for them at the negotiating table.
“I have read that property taxes have doubled in the past decade in most areas”
That is because they were previously underassessed or they went up in market value. Oh yeah, and the levy has increased.
“Do you guys feel that they will double again in the next decade, even if prices remained the same?”
Absolutely not. If they double, prices will not stay the same.
I think the city issues will ultimately resolve themselves, we are not detroit. say what you want about Rahm, but he’s no kwame.
The state issues are a different story. Quinn is a complete moron, just a f’in idiot in the likeness of Blago.
We’ve got Cat actively considering leaving the state over taxes and a unfriendly business environment. Quinn = Kwame.
Not sure how the city issues will ultimately resolve themselves. And unfortunatley it’s not like we can just move Chicago to a more fiscally responsible state. Then again, most states are in some sort of fiscal dilemma, it’s just that Illinois has what many consider to be the worst or at least among the worst.
The city will cut the landscaping, downsize some staff and reduce pensions. After the last 20 years of the Daley mismanagement, the only worse we could get is kwame.
“Quinn = Kwame.”
Much as I despise the way PJ is managing the state, he’s *NOT* Kwame–totally unfair; Grey Davis is a *much* better comparison. Even Blago (as much more as I despised him) had nothing on Kwame.
“Illinois has what many consider to be the worst or at least among the worst.”
Definitely among the worst, but, among the competition for worst, NY and Cali both have much less space to raise taxes, as their taxes were already higher and Texas is taking the “lalala” approach to their similar-sized problem. Call it a 4(+) way tie.
‘course, there’s there are pension cramdown approaches that Quinn won’t consider (neither would Brady, which would have been his way to get elected–“I *will* reduce future pension obligation even if it means firing every state worker”–he’d have won easily; he got very few public union votes anyway).
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1907-N-Lincoln-Park-W-60614/home/21769696
Crap, Ive heard construction was rushed through after it was foreclosed on? maybe two times? the project has been going on for years and have lost track. weird location right on the corner of two of the busier streets.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/304-W-Willow-St-60614/home/13345727
Crap, no garage…and they took the photo of the back yard facing the house bc there is a huge electrical pole about to fall on the house
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1737-N-Fern-Ct-60614/unit-3/home/12716710
Crap, LOW TAXES!!!! yeahhhh. Sweet curb appeal
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1813-N-Cleveland-Ave-60614/home/13347100
Love the inside…wow crap
There is the first four I looked at and are all south of armitage, where I want to live
“Not sure how the city issues will ultimately resolve themselves.”
They won’t. I’m not sure where HD gets all his optimism that a left-of-center Democrat like Rahm Emanuel can make the hard choices necessary. Look at CPS with a $1 billion annual deficit. (that’s $384 per resident, let’s say $1,200 per household) for just one year alone. Where are they going to get this money? Tax the “corporations”? Did anyone see 60 Minutes las week? The USA already has the highest corporate tax rates in the world!
So, Rahm is going to make the hard choices necessary w/o raising taxes? That involves only cuts. It should get interesting, and since CPS is only 5% white, it will really be entertainment when the cuts/burden can’t be shifted on the backs of the “majority” like all Democrats take usual glee in doing. Rahm is going to make cuts that “hurts the kidz”? I doubt he will, so there is no answer to that $1 billion hole.
There is no future in balancing these fiscal issues outside of the battle that’s taking place within the Republican party, Tea Party vs. RINOs. That’s the only place the battle is taking place with any honesty. There is no hope whatsoever that anything will be accomplished by Democrats.
Hey G, I’m still hoping to see a list of those Unicorn Criteria-compliant properties…
flo – See what you started with that question on property taxes?
“CPS is only 5% white”
Incorrect. North of 9%.
“CPS with a $1 billion annual deficit.”
Incorrect. Around $500m, after the state $$ are counted.
Regarding contract activity: the fact that current contract activity is on a par with 2010 is very encouraging given that last year’s numbers were goosed by the government paying people to buy houses. About 15% of all contracts written don’t close so you can knock down the 2011 numbers by 15% but that’s not huge considering. The 2010 numbers reflect contracts that were not cancelled.
thanks anon, I didn’t notice that this was 2010, not 2011. Still….. and what do you mean by state $$? That’s likely where left-of-center Rahm and moron Quinn will get the plug for the gap. Rahm doesn’t have it in him to make non-whites take the cuts, he’ll use some sort of “equitable” language to weasel some money out of the state. Tricky thing is that CPS already spends more per pupil than the downstate counties that Rahm and Quinn would like to tax/raid for money and “equitable” solutions (aka wealth transfer).
CPS faces $1 billion deficit, Huberman says
Only pension reform, union concessions and layoffs can stave off crisis
February 25, 2010|By Azam Ahmed, Tribune reporter
Chicago Public Schools is facing a deficit of up to $1 billion next year that can be reduced only through a combination of pension reform, union concessions and job cuts, schools chief Ron Huberman said Thursday.
Rahm is the only democrat I’ve heard says “I want to have an adult discussion with the unions” and then suddenly everyone (except for the smart one) backed Chico instead of Rahm.
Rahm appears, on his face, to take taken a step in the right direction, which is far more than quinn has done. Quinn just wants to borrow more and more.
Rahms no union buster, you’ll never see an IL union buster unless there is a blizzard north of I-80 on election day in Nov.
Regardless, I stand by my assertions, and the drama is already starting to play out.
The county level is different. Tony peracia alleged that the unions drafted the county budget and it was passed in the middle of teh night. there’s no hope on the county level.
oh dear
G – your numbers are wrong.
This is what I have for the past 3 years in certain green zone zip codes:
60657
2009 69
2010 82
2011 102
60614
2009 38
2010 44
2011 56
60611
2009 66
2010 101
2011 135
60610
2009 58
2010 89
2011 92
Where do you get your data? Your head?
“what do you mean by state $$?”
The deficit for 11-12 is currently estimated at $720m. That deficit includes $236m in A/R from the State–not new money, old money that’s counted in the current State deficit.
The proposed shuttering/combining of schools is going to save a few million, the (coming, like next month) shifting of more students into newly approved charter schools will save some more, they’ll whack more admin folks about 30 seconds after Rahm is sworn in, there will be *more* schools closed/combined over the summer.
The “breakfast in the classroom” nonsense is largely about getting more federal $$–it’ll pay for itself and cover some of the lunch-related deficit.
is clio counting closings on redfin?
“is clio counting closings on redfin?”
Of course not – I own a small real estate company and I have direct access to info not available to the public.
“The county level is different. Tony peracia alleged that the unions drafted the county budget and it was passed in the middle of teh night. there’s no hope on the county level.”
Tony Pereica? Really?
Not to mention–what would he know? He’s not on the board anymore. Sounds like sour grapes from a guy not bright enough to realize (1) that he needs to dodge questions about abortion and gay marriage when running for a Cook County position and (2) being in the “sign-stealing van” oneself is ultimate stupidity.
Preckwinkle’s had a very good first couple months, in my opinion; managed to make the leadership of a number of unions show their true colors. She needs to build on it and have as good of a budget season next year.
Yes really. I don’t know how passing a budget (with an increase!) in the middle of the night is considered “a very good couple of months.”
anon (tfo), my comment responding to your question is awaiting moderation. I must have used the C word too much in the post.
Clio – are you pulling closings or contracts?
I’ve never really played with the data before but for fun just did detached singles in Lincoln Park. Here are closings in LP per the MLS:
2007 – 151
2008 – 150
2009 – 138
2010 – 160
2011 – 17 (so far)
“Rahms no union buster, you’ll never see an IL union buster unless there is a blizzard north of I-80 on election day in Nov.
Regardless, I stand by my assertions, and the drama is already starting to play out.”
There is no hope. People getting all excited about Rahm is like the misplaced backing people gave Obama to close Guantanamo Bay and get our troops out of the wars. Fool me once…..
The Tea Party is the only place where hope can be put, and incredibly they’re not even really winning the battle within the GOP. It gets more discouraging when there is so much knee-jerk anger directed at the Tea Party. It’s hopeless, the Tea Party tried to support Chico (for some odd reason, as the worst of a bad bunch?) but he was applauded for rejecting the endorsement, and that was fueled by anti-white racism and knee-jerk prejudice!!
It’s over in the 21st century. If the Tea Party cannot get traction, because anti-white racists and liberals are reflexively not even listening to the mathematically-based message out of blind prejudice as to who’s giving it, then what hope is there?
So, we’re pinning our hopes on Rahm Emanuel, elected as a Democrat with a long history of left-of-center activism somehow deciding to act like a Tea Party leader would? I don’t believe it’s possible. Maybe he can pull it off, and people will accept the fiscal responsibility but just as long as it’s not imposed on them by a white Republican.
2007 – 151
2008 – 150
2009 – 138
2010 – 160
2011 – 17 (so far)
and this shows Clio’s point. that in 2010 more house in green zone sold then in 2007.
why does this place have such a big assessment? There are no amenities, doorman, heat, cable,…included so I am confused?! Am I missing something?
Dan – Fu and ur tea party is the only answer belief. Coffee is better anyways.
“anon (tfo), my comment responding to your question is awaiting moderation. I must have used the C word too much in the post.”
two or more links gets hit by moderation.
And, of course, I recognize that many of those 19 are asking too much for what they are. Just thought that there were few that I would not live in pretty happily for the right (ie, probably ~1/4 less) price.
“fiscal responsibility but just as long as it’s not imposed on them by a white Republican”
Who’s the last white R Illinois *executive* politician who was “fiscally responsible”? Seems like they all brought us jobs programs and deferred pension payments to help themselves get re-elected, too.
ahhh there is about 18 links. kidding, I only shared my views on the first four. Granted they are livable, but most people want a house that is more than ust livable. you’ll get my point better once they post comes through
check out the inside of this one for fun. you dont think this is crap?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1813-N-Cleveland-Ave-60614/home/13347100
The R Illinois politicians aren’t any better, but at least the Tea Party is trying to get them out. There is nothing happening like that within the Democrat side, except now we have Rahm who’s gonna act upon tea party principles?
How is there any fiscal hope for Chicago when during the last mayoral race the Tea Party didn’t even have a voice? and LOL it’s endorsement was rejected?!!!
G………Still…w…a…i…t…i…n…g………
“Dan – Fu and ur tea party is the only answer belief.”
What’s a better idea? Hoping Rahm implements it (without giving any attribution, of course)
I support it (the TP) because its beliefs are based on raw mathematics. I notice that those who hate the TP are either knee-jerk anti-white racists or white liberals who just don’t seem to care about fiscal math. Then you also have the RINOs who feel “threatened” for their positions….boo-hoo to them too.
“check out the inside of this one for fun. you dont think this is crap?”
Oh, yeah. Needs a deVicing for sure.
Of course, it’s been listed at that price for over a year, so it’s never going to move w/o big changes (inflation/price drop/reno).
But, assuming *no* structural problems, it just needs a $300k update, doesn’t it? Would look good at $1.3 or so, no?
But, assuming *no* structural problems, it just needs a $300k update, doesn’t it? Would look good at $1.3 or so, no?
it would look good at land value. what do you think just the lot alone should go for?
flo, I think I have been in that basement for a party… It would have been about 8 years ago and a lot of the places I have been in kinda blurred together… I will never forget walking into that space going “WOAH GUYS WE’RE AT THE MAX!!!!”
I need my shoebox sized cell phone now…
i loved the tea party idea at first. Then i saw all the fat ignorant racist trash that joined up under the guise of sudden adherance to a consitution they never before read or the support of capitalism which they dont understand or the call for personal responsability to which they themselves don’t adhere to.
Sad actually.
Dan, you couldn’t have said it better yourself. They call the white republican establishment ‘the man’ for a reason.
You have no hope, and that’s understandable. I will again however repeat “rahm said that he would have an adult conversation with the unions, and they ran ran ran to Chico.
The unions were scared of rahm’s suggestions so they backed the losing candidate! Terrible political play for the FOP, SEIU, etc. Now they’re stuck dealing with Rahm and they actively contributed against getting him elected.
I’m not making this stuff up – this is fact. Whether or not it will play out in some way or another is an unknown, but at least the groundwork has been laid. things could have been much much worse.
“Maybe he can pull it off, and people will accept the fiscal responsibility but just as long as it’s not imposed on them by a white Republican.”
“and this shows Clio’s point. that in 2010 more house in green zone sold then in 2007.”
That was just Lincoln Park numbers. I ran the results for detached singles again combining Loop, Near North Side, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, and North Center (I think all are undisputably GZ…I would’ve included Lincoln Square, West Town (Wicker Park), Logan Square (Bucktown), but there are parts of those that are not as clearly GZ). Here are the closing totals for SFHs in solid GZ areas:
2007 – 252
2008 – 278
2009 – 252
2010 – 253
Seems like SFHs are selling pretty well in the GZ from a numbers standpoint.
“it would look good at land value. what do you think just the lot alone should go for?”
Funny, but a double lot across the alley sold 18 months (ie, forever) ago for $2.25mm. There’s a premium built in for the double lot, so it’s not a particularly good basis.
Also, there are the Hudson lots for sale for ~$800k, and they’re only 90′ deep and 17xx Hudson is relatively crap, and, of course, they aren’t selling.
I’d say it’s probably $850-ish for a raw lot, tho it’s probably worth more with the structure intact, again assuming no structural issues, because it’s probably bigger than you can build new and it will be assessed against a different pool.
“I will again however repeat “rahm said that he would have an adult conversation with the unions, and they ran ran ran to Chico. ”
He had the private meeting with them, and some of them announced their endorsement of Chico later the same day.
And he’s already clearly said “you want to live in the suburbs? get a job in the suburbs. Work for me, live in my city.”
“because it’s probably bigger than you can build new”
Thats not the case in this neighborhood. think the lots are zoned 5. On hudson across for the double lot your taking about is a newer single family that is built up to the clouds, 1825 n hudson.
“The whole addage, you have to live somewhere, doesn’t work as well for a condo owner who can walk and rent an apartment. ”
It is curious why we dropped so much more than the other cities tracked by the condo index. Something is amiss.
“So, Rahm is going to make the hard choices necessary w/o raising taxes? That involves only cuts”
Rahm isn’t going to do much. It might not even be for lack of want: I am starting to believe he is too politically inexperienced and not savvy enough to get anything done.
His first suggestion to the alderman was to cut the number of alderman in half–before even taking office.
This is a former investment banker and then WH chief of staff who is used to telling people how it’s going to be. We’re in for a Harold Washington type aldermanic revolt.
Everyone voted for him because he’s Obama’s boy but really that isn’t going to carry any water with the alderman who he’s already eager to step on their toes.
Chicagoans are in for a rude awakening about the future political landscape I hate to say.
“Thats not the case in this neighborhood. think the lots are zoned 5.”
They are, but I was thinking height and width, rather than FA.
“I’d say it’s probably $850-ish for a raw lot”
man, i just found a lot that sold for $900 in 1991, just up the street in 1840’s. tough time for the sellers to except an 1980’s price i guess
“man, i just found a lot that sold for $900 in 1991, just up the street in 1840’s. tough time for the sellers to except an 1980’s price i guess”
Lots of historical funny business in lot trading. Check the parties, as the price might have been about something else, and/or included other property.
“Where do you get your data? Your head?”
“G………Still…w…a…i…t…i…n…g………”
G is still crunching his numbers. He must have screwed up the Excel function somehow.
Perhaps he would label himself a liar and that he was proven wrong?
“There have been 14 detached houses that have rented for $5000 or more on the mls in Lakeview since 1/1/10.”
Not all SFH rentals hit the MLS. Not even a majority.
“JMM-Yes they do pay a premium, but then they won’t have to turn around and try to sell in a year when something decent becomes available. That George place is a definite souless, crappy fixture mcmansion.”
The premium paid has to be at least $3k per month after interest tax shield (assuming RE taxes are AMT’d out).
I am not complaining as we have a number of such rentals that are cash flowing like no one’s business, but I do think these renters are getting ripped off generally.
We have one property that would sell for maybe 700k that rents for over $5,500. Two year lease, unfurnished. So, not as short term as you’d think.
“This is a former investment banker and then WH chief of staff who is used to telling people how it’s going to be.”
Though I only have experience with the former, I rarely told people hoow it was going to be. Client service rarely allows for that sort of thing.
“I’d say it’s probably $850-ish for a raw lot”
Used to be around 1.250. Biggest ripoff in the city of Chicago.
“Lots of historical funny business in lot trading. Check the parties, as the price might have been about something else, and/or included other property.”
Very few lots in close vanity have not traded near $850 in past decade. Most seem to be teardowns and not just the lots, so i guess they would have to buy the existing structure then have to tear it down, which I have heard cost 15-25k to have a cat bulldozer run threw the lot. Someone paid over 1.2M up the street in 1995 and tore it down. Tough to believe that lots have come off 40% since 1995.
“Used to be around 1.250. Biggest ripoff in the city of Chicago.”
how do you figure? There is a very limited amount and it gets smaller and smaller by the day. Some rich person who wants to build a dream house is running out of are to do so. Its not like they are gonna start tearing down the new ones built everywhere are they?
“Used to be around 1.250. Biggest ripoff in the city of Chicago.”
most of these people then spent 1.250M building a house and then sold it between 3M-4M. it appears buying the land but the completed house the ripoff
“Someone paid over 1.2M up the street in 1995 and tore it down. Tough to believe that lots have come off 40% since 1995.”
The closed sale of the double lot on Hudson for $2.25m supports a meaningful drop.
And my suggestion consists of 2 parts–what would it take to get it sold *right now* and what makes sense with the end product. 2875 sf lot gives you 5700 sf of FA (max), at ~$200 psf you have a finished, high end, home for right around $2mm of hard costs. Add in a year of carry and developer profit, you have a competitive product.
“And my suggestion consists of 2 parts–what would it take to get it sold *right now* and what makes sense with the end product. 2875 sf lot gives you 5700 sf of FA (max), at ~$200 psf you have a finished, high end, home for right around $2mm of hard costs. Add in a year of carry and developer profit, you have a competitive product.”
That works great in theory, but I still don’t buy that you can get a lot in that good of a location for 850k. makes me think the person who bought that double lot actually got a better “deal” than I originally thought. and if that is the case, I would my rather build a house of my dream for 2M then any of the “crap” on the market right now.
If there was better inventory we would have to be having this discussion right now is all.
“I still don’t buy that you can get a lot in that good of a location for 850k”
1752 Mohawk– $860 on 1/28/11 23×125
Which, yes, is not as good of a location. Again, tho, focused on a guaranteed selling price.
Few in possession of ‘better inventory’ want to sell in a down market.
“#flo on March 29th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
If there was better inventory we would have to be having this discussion right now is all.”
“1752 Mohawk– $860 on 1/28/11 23×125”
sure a multi family teardown/re-do, sharing an alley with section 8 housing.
“Few in possession of ‘better inventory’ want to sell in a down market.”
We agree on that. And that was a point I was making was inventory right now is crap.
“G………Still…w…a…i…t…i…n…g………”
annony, you said yourself there are no sale comps. Sorry, but I can’t make them up for you.
CC lawyers I need some help.
I have some friends who live at 1648 W Fletcher in Lakeview. They think their landlord is getting foreclosed on. They want to maximize living there for free for as long as possible and pissing clio off is a side benefit.
Can you guys find out where this property is in the foreclosure process? Their landlord is some guy who inherited the house and treated it as an ATM and as the rents aren’t cashflowing he is apparently getting foreclosed on.
“Then i saw all the fat ignorant racist trash that joined up under the guise of sudden adherance to a consitution they never before read or the support of capitalism which they dont understand or the call for personal responsability to which they themselves don’t adhere to.”
There you have it, there couldn’t be a better or more clear example of anti-white racist, knee-jerk idiocy and sweeping ignorant prejudice against the Tea Party. It doesn’t matter how simple their fiscal message is, there are going to bigots like Ze that come along and hate on it anyway, without offering a single better idea.
Sad actually.
The cutting off the nose to spite the face idiom is meant for the Ze’s of the world. Others however have nothing to lose, they form the Democrat base, so could care less if the nation spins into fiscal and financial chaos, they have nothing to lose and don’t really care. They are just happy to see other Americans, esp. the long-standing ones, suffer….out of pure pathetic spite.
Clio, what are those numbers you posted?
I posted the contract totals for attached & detached sfh for the past 15 days in response to your claim that “market activity is EXTREMELY HIGH right now” based upon “how many properties have gone under contract in the past 15 days.”
I posted the contract totals by community area. The numbers you posted are presented by zip, but they aren’t contract totals. What are they?
Oh yes I should note that was only a _hypothetical_ question and no real world action will be taken so no worries about any sort of liability arising from your opinion.
Here are the mls contract totals for attached & detached sfh for 3/14-3/28 of each year by zip:
60657
2007 117
2008 61
2009 44
2010 75
2011 57
60614
2007 98
2008 93
2009 42
2010 62
2011 61
60611
2007 56
2008 53
2009 36
2010 43
2011 39
60610
2007 122
2008 72
2009 36
2010 46
2011 39
at least the bubble had lots of good inventory to choose from…
Dan I offer advice regularly and I like the tea party original idea and have been pretty much a libertarian-republican my whole life. Problem is I don’t believe the members believe or even understand the message. Look at Bob for example.. The party of personal responsibility correct? “If I break your window playing golf don’t expect a note”, “need help for friends to live for free”. I hear the rhetoric but the constituents (70+%), to me, appear to be nothing more than idiots that don’t like having a black president. I mean honestly half can’t even control their own weight. Fiscal responsibility, reducing entitlements, all for it.
“Not all SFH rentals hit the MLS. Not even a majority.”
I’ve mentioned that several times here before. Good to see that you picked up on something.
Bob, can’t you look it up the date of the lis pendens on ccrd, exptrapolate the 24 months it takes to go through the system? Also, you could look it up on http://www.ilfls.com if there’s an auction scheduled.
Dan – u are only looking out for your best interests, not that of any poor or different race or religion. The tea party does bring up solid points but to only benefit themselves and call out faults while providing idiotic solutions (medicare, social security, church in schools). My point is u have no bi partisianship, have a pessimistic crybaby view if u don’t get ur way, and no americanism what so ever.
“at least the bubble had lots of good inventory to choose from…”
Yeah, you could’ve really overpaid for them, too.
BTW Dan sometimes you say some catchy shit, I think your message might get you a few more fans if you stop saying the anti-white racism thing, think that’s where you lose any reasonably successful white person since they know that they have basically been dealt a full house being born white. No one follows me in stores, cops nod hello to me, man I gotta tell you “passing off” for white works wonders for me!!!
“I gotta tell you “passing off” for white works wonders for me!!!”
Good one.
“appear to be nothing more than idiots that don’t like having a black president. I mean honestly half can’t even control their own weight. ”
This is prejudice.
It’d be like me saying that the Democrat Party appears to be nothing more than fat union slobs and obese black women/Hispanics who don’t like white male presidents and would be willing to bankrupt America to avoid one.
If you say one, then you’d have to agree to the other. PS Let’s get off the high-horse about Tea Partiers being reactionary racists, they aren’t even close to the level of Zionists and those that shamefully support what they do, our next mayor Rahm, the son of an Irgun-terrorist, being one of them.
“Can you guys find out where this property is in the foreclosure process? Their landlord is some guy who inherited the house and treated it as an ATM and as the rents aren’t cashflowing he is apparently getting foreclosed on.”
Not a lawyer but renters are still bound by their lease regardless of the situation with the mortgagee and mortgagor. I know of at least one example where this was in play, then checked it out and determined they were ultimately liable for the rent.
Bob,
You can also just have them head down to CC chancery records and pull the file. It is the easiest way to see what is going on.
“This is prejudice.”
No, more an accurate observation. Man up and just admit it.
“If you say one, then you’d have to agree to the other.”
No, Your comment has so many errors I don’t even know where to start.
Basically every original tea partier that I know is very unhappy with what turned into the Dick Armey tea party.
Honestly, politics I want nothing to do with, and this debate just doesn’t occur here which I find nice, I’m much more here in my headset.. listen and enjoy!!! Maybe it will make you a happier person… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3oCtItr-iQ&feature=related
“Yeah, you could’ve really overpaid for them, too.”
gladly, instead of waiting 10 more years to have the opportunity next time around. I have been bearish real estate for about 7 years. 2-3 of those years I was wrong as it didnt peak until somewhere arounf 2006-7. Now I have been right for that past 2 or 3, and it hasn’t really gotten me anywhere except the houses I like arent on the market and don’t see a whole lot to choose from. You can put me on the record for saying that the bottom is close…
I think Tea Party people are more healthy than Blue Line riders. I think they are more intelligent also, and Tea Party women are on average far better looking than any women you’d see on the Blue Line — ever. The Blue Line being a proxy for average Democrat constituency in Chicago.
“This is prejudice.”
No, more an accurate observation. Man up and just admit it.
“If you say one, then you’d have to agree to the other.”
No, Your comment has so many errors I don’t even know where to start.
“Let’s get off the high-horse about Tea Partiers being reactionary racists, they aren’t even close to the level of Zionists and those that shamefully support what they do”
You mean like Palin and Bachmann and Pawlenty and DeMint and Glenn Beck? Or are they not “pure” enough to be in *your* Tea Party?
“are they not “pure” enough to be in *your* Tea Party?”
anon(tfo): good point.
It’s impossible to be an intellectually honest Tea Partier if one supports the costly wars, which all the pro-Zionists do. So, it is indeed hopeless, the Tea Party can’t even get its positions down rationally either. The warfare/welfare state continues without end (or any source of real funding). It will end, when it ends, and we should all expect this within our lifetimes, I think. It won’t be pretty.
“he warfare/welfare state continues without end (or any source of real funding). It will end”
When in the history of mankind has it not? Most empires pretty much go down this way. We really are just monkeys sitting on a rock.
“I think. It won’t be pretty.”
I hope you’re wrong, quite often the torch passes without a whimper. Unfortunately I know the other way too.
Dan, the meaning of life is simply to be happy, this is how I keep score, all this other stuff is fun to bicker over but it’s just noise.
Dan: the red and brown lines are better choices. Those lines are for ‘lakeshore liberals’.
“Dan: the red and brown lines are better choices. Those lines are for ‘lakeshore liberals’.”
He did say “average”.
Gringo what are you talking about the torch passes with a whimper? History is littered with the remains of weak and failed and bankrupt kingdoms falling or voluntarily bowing to their enemies. Toss in revolutions and cooups and rarely does an empire end with a whimper with the exception of the british and they even suffered at the hands of germany in ww2. I don’t plan on learning chinese without a fight.
“Dan, the meaning of life is simply to be happy, this is how I keep score, all this other stuff is fun to bicker over but it’s just noise.”
I guess. But I’m actually far more happy being miserable, after my conversion to serious thinking, than I was being less miserable, but uninformed.
Cheers!
“I don’t plan on learning chinese without a fight.”
Soylent green for you.
HD.. Maybe I don’t see going from #1 to #2, 3, 4, or 5 as a big deal.
Fair enough “historically” there has often been a few years of war but I doubt with a few thousand nukes anyone is steppin foot on US soil and that there is going to be a military conquest of the US. I expect more like how the US took over from Britain, whether WW2 happened or not that was going to be the case.
And I respectfully disagree, they will learn English. It is already established as the global language for peer review and international business. Best part of being American, everyone needs to speak English.
Im on the blue line right now and I don’t see the ‘average’ chicago deomcrat. UUnless hipsters are now the average chicago democrat. But they’re skinny.
hilarious.. i almost wrote soylent green but expected no one to get it…
“hilarious.. i almost wrote soylent green but expected no one to get it…”
I expect someone to get every one of my jokes. Not necessarily think they’re funny, but get them. There’s a good audience here.
“I’m actually far more happy being miserable”
You need to sit and think that one through…
“my conversion to serious thinking”
So you were the one programmed, not us.
My bet Dan, smart guy, probably work fairly hard, like to read, high self expectations. Self opinion not matched by career success and looking for someone to blame it on.
Some advice, the second you close yourself off to new things it will be over for you. Every rigorous interview process I took part of was about seeing who can perform outside the box under extreme pressure. So much is about steppin out of the box. But since you are at least seeking serious thinking try reading a bit of Eastern Philosophy (Buddhism) if you don’t like it throw it out, but hopefully you learn a bit too. I hate seeing people unhappy, the trip thru this place is waaayyyy too short. Hate me all you want but unless you try to hurt me I wish ya the best…
Rather than buddhism I suggest taoism but that’s just personal preference…
Dan – the republican party is divided between job creation and budget cuts…tea party voting for budget cuts.
Which is more important in your view?
My view is job creation because no one can keep the economy going if they dont have a job, regardless of the defecit (simply put).
How do you just make jobs?
Tax working people and the hire people to dig ditches?
JJobs come from business friendly environments. High taxes are only part of the problem.
For
A-Fed, I went for lunch today and the buffet at the restaurant I went to cost me $30 US per person, 3 years ago it was $12 US per person. Keep that deficit pumping and that lunch will soon be $50 US per person. Somewhere I think food gets real expensive for you or amazingly and unbelievably begins to get scarce. The question you are asking is a trick question. More like being conscious of or unconscious of your pain.
We’ve systematically destroyed our jobs base over the years through a variety of avenues. High corporate taxes in IL and at the federal level (see 60 minutes this past weekend), outsoucing to lower wage jurisdictions. Due to high, often union, wages. Over reggulation in most industries and other anti- inovation policies destroyed a lot of what we had. Major corporations didn’t develop in the middle ages while the serfs were toiling away in the fields for their lords. Sure they had ‘jobs’ but they were sustinance jobs. Only after an era of free market capitalism developed did different sorts of non-serf jobs develop. Reduce the people to serfs and welfare recipients and yoou’ll have a population of serfs and welfare recipients.
gringo – you would’nt be eating lunch if you didn’t have a job! At least, not for $30. You choose to eat there. You have a choice.
The question that I am asking is dividing the republican party my man!…there is no trick, this is politics!!
If we spend more on libya, our defecit will increase. If we don’t, our national security is at risk. Job stimulus plan? Tax breaks for companies?
These are all very valid points, relevant to the current state of the union.
HD – by no means is it easy, I agree, to make jobs. I don’t have an answer, just bringing to light the dilemma in our country.
Taxes are a powerful solution. Tax imported goods? Reduce taxes on the companies who hire american citizens? Reduce taxes for companies that give employees bonuses? Increase taxes on non-american based companies?
As you said that is what you think. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder after all. My husband for one thinks Palin’s calves look like prosciutto (the whole uncut one)….hehe
Also I think wealthy politician women from almost any party look better than average people on the public transport as this country has the biggest income gap among all industrial nations between rich and poor, People cannot afford to offer healthy meals to their family with their low incomes. It is a shame. I for one feel so bad about the fact that my husband and I pay such small taxes in a country that gave us so much opportunity and there are all these kids going hungry to bed in USA. This is not Africa we are talking about!
“I think Tea Party people are more healthy than Blue Line riders. I think they are more intelligent also, and Tea Party women are on average far better looking than any women you’d see on the Blue Line — ever. The Blue Line being a proxy for average Democrat constituency in Chicago.”
“USA biggest income gap among all industrial nations between rich and poor”
Brazil. China is next from what I recall…America is pretty well off between class warfare due to the mid paying industrial jobs, with good pentions and health care (for now).
“Here are the mls contract totals for attached & detached sfh for 3/14-3/28 of each year by zip:”
Thank you for all the data G. It appears that there are not tons of contracts- as Clio suggested. It’s a little healthier compared to the really slow years- yes. But it’s far from going gangbusters.
Just another slow spring in Chicago.
“People cannot afford to offer healthy meals to their family with their low incomes.”
That’s BS! what does a package of beans cost? a can of even excellent quality McCanns Oatmeal? whole grains, always those crazy sales for fruit and vegies at Dominicks. Anyone going to McDonalds can buy tons of stuff they can cook at home themselves. pasta costs me all of flour and a few eggs to make.
People just don’t eat healthy because they don’t.
“Also I think wealthy politician women from almost any party look better than average people on the public transport”
Completely agree. Sarah Palin IS a fox though dumb as a rock…
“People just don’t eat healthy because they don’t.”
Said as I get ready to season a few racks of baby backs which will cook for 10-12 hours tomorrow…
Gringo – go outside the city. Go to a rural area and things a still a dollar or two. Dominicks prices are redic, but good business says charge what people will pay. I agree overall – on the basis of a healthy lifestyle – but exercise is just as important as a good diet.
“always those crazy sales for fruit and vegies at Dominicks”
There are NO dominicks in many neighborhoods. The problem with healthy food in lower income neighborhoods has been well documented. But Wal-Mart is trying to remedy some of it by opening up smaller stores in those neighborhoods. Also Walgreens recently started a charter program where some of its stores sell fresh food (not just the normal groceries). They are doing it in neighborhoods that have no supermarket (many neighborhoods- actually.) It’s done so well they are expanding it.
Veggies cost way more than processed food. You remind me of Marie Antoinette telling hungry people of France to go eat cake if they cannot get bread.
“always those crazy sales for fruit and vegies at Dominicks”
Brazil is developing country, check this out, US is the 3rd:
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/107980/countries-with-the-biggest-gaps-between-rich-and-poor
Just one sample article:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/a-high-price-for-healthy-food/
There are tones of fast food options for a dollar or two, good luck putting together a meal that will feed kids for that price made out of healthy items.
Ze you cannot just feed beans to people!
I’m sorry. One afternoon, high as a kite, I was entertaining myself walking down Mich Ave with a camera taking pics of how exceptionally obese people were in Chicago to send to people. Literally from Mich Ave bridge to Borders I must have gotten 30 shots and all of them were holding Hershey bags, big gulps, etc. No accident!
and I’m sorry beans and rice are everywhere, quaker will do too.
If “I had” to eat healthy for nothing I could easily. My choices down here are beyond horrendous in comparison to Chicago.
Maybe at whole foods they do but at the grocery store I shop at in Belmont-Craigin the sweetest crunchiest jonagolds are 59c a pound, green peppers are $1.29 a pound, a 3lb bag of onions is $1.29 and a pound of fresh green beans is .99c a pound. mushrooms are about $1.49 for 8 oz, jars of minimally process pasta sauce are .99c, roma tomatoes are $1.29 a pound and fresh dinner rolls are 4/$1.
I go to the convenience store in my neighborhood and there’s always somebody with a LINK card buying a bag of pork rinds or doroitoes and a 2 liter of Hi-C or Sunkist or Coke.
There are no grocery stores in the bad areas because the residents don’t want to buy fresh food. There are plenty of other things for them to buy and fresh food isn’t one of them.
“Veggies cost way more than processed food. You remind me of Marie Antoinette telling hungry people of France to go eat cake if they cannot get bread.”
Last night I put together lemon chicken. 6 meals total (2 for dinner and 2 lunches during the week shared with my significant other).
$5 for 1.5 lbs of dark meat chicken, the sauce was 8oz $1.49 heavy cream, 1/2 a lemon for .38 cents, 6 oz of cooking wine .50, 2 cups dried rice .50, and for a vegetable, a pound of green beans for .99. Oh and some salt/pepper of negligible cost, maybe .02 cents.
Low income is not the only reason for being obese obviously poor eating habits are a big part of the problem, but anyone claiming it cost less to eat healthy lives in an alternate reality than mine. Fresh fruits and vegetables cost a lot more than junk food.
Oh, I used about 1/8 cup of olive oil at a cost of about 20 cents.
$9.00 for 6 meals. 6 dinners.
The other night I made black bean soup. 2 cups dried black beans at .89 cents a pound, a couple of chicken bouillons, 2 stalks celery, a half an onion, 1 carrot, 1 clove garlic. Cost about $2,00, maybe, for everything. and 1 dash of liquid smoke. 4 servings total.
compare that to feeding a family of 4 with mcdonalds value meals.
I also buy bags of fries from target for $2.50 for 26 oz.
Think I can… Is to say family of 4 for $5 each on a MCShit meal fair??
Where do you shop?
Whole foods is expensive, and jewel/dominicks are mildly expensive. But once you get away from the organic food and the brand name stores, and go to a valley produce, or caputos, or A&G, etc, produce is much much cheaper.
the problem with jewel is that much produce has to be bought in bulk. Id ont’ need four pounds of white potatoes for $4.00. I don’t want 16 oz of celery for $2.50. I don’t care for a 5 lb bag of onions for $3.99. If I had a bigger family, sure, I could see using a 5lb bag of onions before tehy all go bad.
“#miumiu on March 29th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Low income is not the only reason for being obese obviously poor eating habits are a big part of the problem, but anyone claiming it cost less to eat healthy lives in an alternate reality than mine. Fresh fruits and vegetables cost a lot more than junk food.”
I buy at Whole food and yes I eat organic. But I was not considering organic produce or my particular eating habits (I would not eat chicken which is not grass fed and has been treated with hormones and antibiotics). Sorry HD, but to me a nice family meal is something which also includes salad or a soup, and they are not cheap either. Moreover, I snack on nuts and fruits and they are not cheap. I usually like oatmeal, milk and berries for breakfast with honey and they are not cheap either. Sure being smart and careful, one can eat better and not pay tones, but still eating fast food and non fresh produce costs less.
I bought a 48 oz containeed of peanuts honey rpastes at target on sat for 4.50. Berries at a&g costs 2$ for 8oz. Oatmeal at target is 1.29 for a large box. Even a quart of organic milk is only 4 something. I drink a lot of tea and thhats like 15 cents a tea bag. Roasted almonds are only 549 a pound and pisacios are 6.50 iirc. Organic omish eggs are$ 3.29.
They call it ‘whole paycheck’ for a reason.
But HD, this is not cheap for a low income family. One of my assistants earn 25-30K a year and is a single mom of 2 kids. Common, you think the poor woman can really afford to offer all the things the kids desire to have and healthy food too? Also she told me sometimes she is so tired that she does not have energy to cook. I feel very bad for her. It is tough to parent two kids all by yourself and she told me her mother has passed away (breast cancer) and her dad is an alcoholic and basically she has no help.
BTW, what is a&g?
miumiu,
Try Stanley’s on North Ave – they have a decent organic section and it’s dirt cheap. I never managed to spend over $20-25 in that store for week supply of fruits and veggies.
Now they also have pastries sold by French mission nuns – delicious!
A&g is an independent grocery store in belmont craigin. Single moms can get a couple of hundred in food stamps. Everyone does noawday.
I also get tired but I still cook. Simple pasta, stews, crock pots, chicken fried steak, tacos, rice and beans, etc.
“Sorry HD, but to me a nice family meal is something which also includes salad or a soup, and they are not cheap either.”
It’s seems unfair to knock HD’s lemon chicken for failing to include soup/salad when the comparison is to fast food.
I’m with HD. It’s clearly much cheaper to cook yourself than to buy fast food, if you shop and cook wisely, certainly if you have access to a supermarket. And that can include servings of fresh veg/fruit, if you pick cheaper varieties. (I’ll also agree that having kid(s) is a heckuva lot of work, even when you have resources.)
“I’m actually far more happy being miserable”
You need to sit and think that one through…
Ze: it was a joke, not to be taken in a literal sense. The rest of your post, smart guy, was nothing more than personal attack. Sad actually. Your recommendation that I read “eastern philosophy” is so very typical of people with narcissistic personality disorder. You have to come up with something “different” to prove that you’re not like everyone else. Whatever!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga#Attributes_of_Kali_Yuga
PS People still using a hackneyed phrase like “thinking outside the box” shouldn’t be giving anyone advice on anything.
Thank you so much for the tip 312forever! Thanks for the explanation HD. Definitely HD is very resourceful. But, I still think some poor neighborhoods have terrible options for eating healthy. Not everyone can travel across the town to buy good cheap food. Also I am still of the opinion that in this country fresh low caloric food is quite expensive. DZ, fair point on my salad and soup comment. In fact, it is shocking to me that herbs (excluding parsley) cost so much at least at the stores I have shopped at so far.
I’ve seen episodes of Molto Mario where he whips up 3 awesome meals in about 23 minutes of actual TV time. Sometimes he even makes and kneads fresh pasta with the eggs within this time period.
“But, I still think some poor neighborhoods have terrible options for eating healthy. Not everyone can travel across the town to buy good cheap food.”
I agree with that and did caveat that is was cheaper assuming you had a reasonable grocery store option.
“Also I am still of the opinion that in this country fresh low caloric food is quite expensive.”
Again assuming you have a reasonable grocery store, I don’t think this is true. Not necessarily what you personally would want, but I’m sure there are nutritious fruit/veg/meat that you can make for less than fast food, if you have access and time.
“Also I am still of the opinion that in this country fresh low caloric food is quite expensive.”
Didn’t anyone read HD’s posts? He lays it all out that it’s not that expensive, and that prepared foods and fast food actually cost more.
Bob: Seriously I ate like a king recently off a friend’s linkcard because a certain cut of meat was on sale.
You were using a friend’s linkcard? Isn’t that fraud?
Flo-
1805 Sedgwick is available for 899, and is a 25×125 lot. Yeah, yeah, OTT facade issues, but if you want to live south of Armitage, in Lincoln Elem, and not deal with that, you’re looking at a *very* small slice, and should probably just save your shekels til you’re shopping for the 3.5mm places like 1839 Cleveland.
“You were using a friend’s linkcard? Isn’t that fraud?”
Isn’t the name Madeline a stupid name from a bygone era?
And no Madeline. They bought it–at that point it became theirs. Then they gave it to me.
I can’t wait until CC gets a politics only forum and full time moderation.
Just trowing it out there,
but you dont need to buy ORGANIC food to eat “healthy”.
isnt the cute name for whole foods “wholepaycheck”?
*I know my wife could make a damnn good “healty” meal for 4, less than it would cost to buy four #1’s at mcdeeznutz.
its just easier to drive up to a window and get a bag of grease 🙂
*yes yes i know once you add in her time spent shopping, cooking, and cleaning, plus the expenses to shop cook and clean, then fast/junk is cheaper. but were not arguing that point
also i could add that its a marinal expense as she would already be at the store for something else and also b cleaning something else already so adding the extra for the process of cooking would be immaterial.
so what i am arguing/trying to say is actually nothing
Bob: Isn’t the name Madeline a stupid name from a bygone era?
Yes, it is; unlike the ultra-modern “Bob”.
By the way, when I see my parents, I’ll have to tell them that naming me after my grandmother was “stupid” and that they should have foreseen that “Madeline” would become a trendy name in the ’90s.
And no Madeline. They bought it–at that point it became theirs. Then they gave it to me.
Perhaps you shouldn’t have worded your original post so ambiguously. Example: “My friend was able to use his linkcard to purchase delicious steaks, which I enjoyed immensely.”
“Perhaps you shouldn’t have worded your original post so ambiguously.”
Gawd, first-class Bob-bait there Madeline. Kudos.