Selling for Under the 2005 Price on Tree-Lined Burling: 2861 N. Burling in Lakeview
This 2-bedroom vintage unit at 2861 N. Burling in Lakeview has been reduced by about $30,000 since it first came on the market in March.
It is also now listed for $15,000 under the 2005 purchase price.
The unit has the all important deeded parking, which is fairly unique in this neighborhood. It is also a heated space.
It also has in-unit washer/dryer but does not have central air.
The unit has 9 foot ceiling and some vintage features still intact such as a beamed ceiling in the formal dining room and a wood burning fireplace.
The kitchen has white cabinets and appliances.
Could the lack of stainless steel appliances (and granite counter tops) be hurting this property in resale?
James Meese at Real Living Helios Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2N: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1400 square feet
- Sold in June 1992 for $159,000
- Sold in November 2005 for $354,000 (parking included)
- Originally listed in March 2010 at $369,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $339,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $399 a month (includes heat, cable)
- Taxes of $3515
- No central air- window units
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 13×11
- Bedroom #2: 13×12
Very nice place. I’d say that the lack of a second (or even half) bathroom is a bigger impediment than the kitchen. But other than that, it looks like a well maintained, charming place, with the all too rare heated garage space (something which is typically only found in a highrise).
Where *is* the parking? There’s no alley behind and no curbcut in front.
Is there really no master bath closet because it is filled with the W/D?
“Is there really no master bath closet because it is filled with the W/D?”
I believe you meant bedroom, but yeah, that floorplan really makes it look like that. If that’s the only place to put the W/D it beats not having one at all, but I don’t think I’d be too keen on having the thing rumbling along in my bedroom and no closet to speak of.
Yup, I meant bedroom. Thanks.
Obligatory baby crib photo… nice…
Burling is one of the great blocks in Lakeview. Great access to the EL, low traffic, shopping, restaurants, the lake and bars. I rented a spot on this street during my 20s and if I was a young man or woman would jump all over this place.
Lack of central air and high assessments are hurting this place.
Those assessments do seem to be a little higher than normal. Then again heated garage…
Assessments are decent for an older building with heat, heated parking and cable tv included.
The assessments for my heated (& maintaned) garage space are $36 a month…
I’ve wandered down Burling many times wondering about living there. I saw a really lovely 3br, second floor condo last fall that sold immediately.
This place, on the other hand, has been on the market for a while and the realtor is doing wacky things with the price: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2856-N-Burling-St-60657/unit-3/home/13373456
“Where *is* the parking? There’s no alley behind and no curbcut in front.”
There looks to be an alley from the overhead map shot.
“The assessments for my heated (& maintaned) garage space are $36 a month…”
That’s great, but what’s your point? Figure $40/mo for parking assessment, $50+/mo for cable, and average of $80/mo for heat. Take those away and your assessment is ~$230/mo. Nobody would bat an eye at that.
“There looks to be an alley from the overhead map shot.”
Nope. Lotline is hard against 2860 Orchard. Redfin misidentifies the parcel in the aerial.
Just because an Idiot(tm) comes around in 2005 and pays X price for this place near the nadir of RE insanity doesn’t mean its worth X-15k today.
$700 monthly nut before we start talking about the mortgage and this moron thought 360k was a reasonable price.
Genius also decides to cut in May to make this place as equally lukewarm toward buyer interest as it was in April with the tax credit, instead of cutting in March/April and allowing the buyer a lower effective price.
Lakeview is flooded with stuff like this. Just check the MLS. The only thing this has going for it special is that heated garaged spot, which ridiculous assessments more than negate. But without central air I don’t think this is going to rank high up there even without ridiculous assessments.
As a previous commenter stated we all had privileged John Hughes’s type suburban upbringing and hence unrealistic expectations for amenities I’ve got something to say to this genius: yeah for the idiotic insane prices Chicago RE got bid up in during the boom you’re damn right it better have all modern amenities.
This person was an idiot to drop 350k on a property without central air and only one bathroom, they always assumed they could just move on with their life when they wanted and maybe pocket some coin. They got knocked up and had a kid (how did mommy even get preggo?, I bet theres a good chance they haven’t a clue given the lemming-paradigm I smell).
Now they want to flee for the suburbs. Except 350k buys an awful nice house in said suburbs yet this genius dropped 350k on a two bedroom apartment in Lakeview near the height of the bubble.
Financial ruin or at least stuck here. Sorry RE owning class since you are so responsible and so wanted to show how much of a responsible adult you were in 2005 by owning you’ve got yourself quite the nice liability here now. Perhaps you should start drinking at Duffys instead of your fancy wine bars and put the savings toward the money you need to bring to the table at closing.
Also you can rent a place like this in Lakeview for significantly less than the ownership cost these days. Its not even close.
“near the nadir of RE insanity”
I think you meant zenith.
“350k buys an awful nice house in said suburbs”
I know you *really* disdain the Chicago burbs, but is there an actually nice suburb where you can get an actually nice house for $350k? I mean, one that you would choose to live in for a decade plus if you were pulling, say, $150k (real $$) per year dependably?
yes Des Plains; even parts of Highland Park, i dunno about now
Try Brookfield, for less than $350K, good schools, interesting area, OK property taxes, three metra stops. A bit of blue collar, but charming, and you can go next door to La Grange if necessary for more upscale stuff.
To get 339k this place would have to be the top floor and have c/a.
My guess is around 320k
Nice enough place, but I think many buyers are questioning the utility of the 2/1’s at this price point. Especially ones with no parking or CA. This is getting to where it takes two incomes to buy and this really isn’t much different from a rental albeit better maintained. Again, if you are going to pay a premium to own above renting, it needs to be something that doesn’t look or feel like a rental imho. These places also don’t do well when you consider that you are likely going to have to stay there at least five years or more and buyers are giving more though to their short term and medium range plans which for most DINKs involves kids.
If you are not going to have CA, parking, an extra bath, etc, then you might as well just rent.
“I know you *really* disdain the Chicago burbs, but is there an actually nice suburb where you can get an actually nice house for $350k? I mean, one that you would choose to live in for a decade plus if you were pulling, say, $150k (real $$) per year dependably?”
Yes, West Wilmette. But don’t sell pot to your daughter and her friends.
“Try Brookfield, for less than $350K, good schools, interesting area, OK property taxes, three metra stops. A bit of blue collar, but charming, and you can go next door to La Grange if necessary for more upscale stuff.”
Shhh…Brookfield is a hidden secret (and you can get a cute bungalow there for $250k- some of them with totally remodeled kitchens.)
Also- yes- Highland Park and (gasp) Deerfield. Houses with good bones but some may need a little work (kitchen/baths.) You can get one for under $300k (sometimes not even short sales- more likely estate sales though.)
I’ve been saying for awhile- that there are some good deals in the suburbs that aren’t Plainfield- that have metra or El access and some city-like amenities (restaurants, movie theaters, shopping etc.)
Sabrina,
Please don’t talk about Deerfield on Cribchatter. Otherwise I will never be able to afford a home next to the Metra stop in a very family friendly community.
D
Okay Dan. I’ll keep it hush-hush just for you. 😉
People don’t realize what is out there for similar commute times and amenities with better schools.
I’m just saying.
Looks like I’ll have to expand the Crib Chattering so that you all can actually get a glimpse that life doesn’t end if you’re not within the Chicago city limits.
For most people earning $150k annually they’re sure as hell not living in a $350k house. They’re living in a $600k condo in LP or a $549k SFH in Logan, financed with a 3.75% IO 7/1/1 ARM.
“I mean, one that you would choose to live in for a decade plus if you were pulling, say, $150k (real $$) per year dependably?””
“Life doesn’t end if you’re not within the Chicago city limits.”
Wait, I thought it ended if you were outside Lincoln Elementary attendance area?
Seems to me it starts with Highland Park or Brookfield and the next thing you know you’re living in Racine or Peoria (“there IS some amazing housing stock. . . “).
I say hell no.
😉
“For most people earning $150k annually they’re sure as hell not living in a $350k house. They’re living in a $600k condo in LP or a $549k SFH in Logan, financed with a 3.75% IO 7/1/1 ARM.”
I wasn’t about to take the bait of his straw-man dichotomy. People that make 150k/year don’t live in two bedroom apartments without central air.
Anon(tfo) is that really your best guess as to the income of this seller? You really think they’re a 150k hotshot and thats why they can only likely sell this place at a 14k loss because thats all the equity they built up over their five years of owning?
I am thinking its a lot closer to 60-80k. Kudos to the 2005 seller for cashing out on top and finding the right sheep at the right time.
Maybe they should’ve thought about whether they were going to have a kid before they bought and whether CPS would be an acceptable option for their kid if they couldn’t afford private school tuition due to a big mortgage.
“Looks like I’ll have to expand the Crib Chattering so that you all can actually get a glimpse that life doesn’t end if you’re not within the Chicago city limits.”
15 shootings in 48 hours? One in the green zone last night?
Yeah, I think that might be a good idea.
HD:
“For most people earning $150k annually they’re sure as hell not living in a $350k house.”
One data point. One of the places, I bought waaaay back I was at the time 120k and bought a 365k place. I’ve never done a interest only loan, but I wasn’t a flipper either. Just FWIW.
There are houses for sale in Oak Park and Riverside now at $350,000 or less. Both communities are served by Metra, have old-fashioned neighborhoods, tree-lined streets, and interesting housing stock.
“Looks like I’ll have to expand the Crib Chattering so that you all can actually get a glimpse that life doesn’t end if you’re not within the Chicago city limits.”
This would add a whole new dimension for the regulars here to debate/degrade/praise/gloat…not to mention exposure to even more cribs and other signs of ‘family life’.
Maybe one day a week you could feature these above average and affordable places located in solid neighborhoods that are a short Metra ride away. As much as many here are opposed to living out side of the action of the city, I don’t think all of you will live in the city all your life. Why not get some insight into life outside the city limits… something for 10 years down the road.
While no longer a Chi resident, I would enjoy seeing what options city residents would have when they too meet the spouse of their dreams and decide to procreate.
I know a couple of years before I decided to spend time in Chicago, I started looking at properties outside of my comfort range of Manhattan and Miami. I was very surprised to find how much your housing dollars would buy you a short ride away in Brooklyn/LIC and the nicer suburbs of Miami. Flash forward 5 years and we find certain areas of Brooklyn and LIC are now the ‘new Manhattan’ at half the cost of city living.
I learned to never say never when it comes to RE location and the deals that are to be had.
Sabrina,
I will second your idea and add to westloopelo’s, It would be cool to do like a one day a week suburb house spotting thing. like a “Cribchatters spectacular Wednesdays special what $xxx,xxx gets you in Palatine just for HomeDelete extravaganza”.
It will be a neat summer treat, many here never would think that in Highland Park you can get a good sized 400k house on a beautiful street and Great schools plus metra!(wife has been to a few open houses in HP and really likes it)
Can we at least focus on Naperville and keep the masses away from the far North Shore?
Yeah you have a poll and comparable listing like…
“Gold Coast 1 bedroom condo or 9 bedroom house in Maywood for 250k”
dan ur fighting a losing battle
“Anon(tfo) is that really your best guess as to the income of this seller?”
Bob–it was an actual, honest question for YOU. Unrelated to someone selling or buying this place, but based on your statement that “350k buys an awful nice house in said suburbs” and knowledge that you are extremely unlikely to buy a house that’s 4x+ your income. I want to know what you think is an “awful nice house” in a suburb that you might consider living in.
“[Brookfield/Oak Park/Wilmette/Deerfield/etc]”
I’m focused on the “awful nice” part–maybe my standards are too high for what constitutes “very nice”, but the houses I see listed in those towns with 4+/2+ for $350k or less are more awful than nice–certainly all livable, but ugly/dated and/or within a block of freeways/trains or on a major-ish street.
Please oh please no Naperville. It really sucks.
“but the houses I see listed in those towns with 4+/2+ for $350k or less are more awful than nice”
I wouldnt cay awful anon, more like needs tlc. You will find good bones homes for that price or lower that well pretty much were owned by someone for 30 years and died there. so alot of 80’s kitchens and 90’s baths plus “grandma” paint and fixtures all about. Electrical will be old and need a update. and most will be lacking C/A.
but at that price it will be 100% livable and just the electrical will need to be updated ASAP (maybe C/A if easy and cheap fix) the rest can be redone while living there and over time.
a positive benefit of the 350k- house in a great burb is your taxes will be lower but you get all the great public amenites as the douchee with the 2mil newly built home (sans the obligatory Range rover).
and many of these “grandma” homes just need cosmetic work (and air fresheners) to make it look great.
i see and hear so many people rip out kitchen cabinets to put in new ones. But all they really need to do is, if the wood is good, is to sand them down stain/paint a newer/popular color and change the pulls. a two day DIY Job(i got it right this time DYI). and maybe change the counter tops.
another plus of “grandma” houses is you know the lawn and yard are in pristine shape.
“Please oh please no Naperville. It really sucks.”
Amen
“I wouldnt cay awful anon, more like needs tlc. ”
Yeah, but far from “awful nice”. I’m not expecting a place with Italian cabinets, Brazilian floors, $10,000 stoves et c. for $350k.
But to be “awful nice”, I am expecting something that has a kitchen updated (not replaced) since the 80s, c/a, newer carpet, mechanicals and roof with at least 5 years of expected life left, baths that are better than rental grade, etc. Yeah, that’s HD’s list–>which is the minimum to be better than okay, which is what Bob claimed was readily available in the ‘burbs (and, of course, they are, but mainly in ‘burbs that are on the lower half of desirability for most).
This is what $360k gets you in North Oak Park. Keep in mind, this is one block off Austin Blvd which is the border between Oak Park and the Westside of Chicago. Grandma’s 3/1
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1050-N-Humphrey-Avenue_Oak-Park_IL_60302_1080562010
Nobody talking about the C-S numbers that came out today??? Chicago condos had a HUGE drop – Boston, New York, LA essentially stable. SF had a somewhat substantial drop, too, but nothing compared to Chicago.
Is the Chicago condo market tanking while other cities’ are sort of holding up?
“This is what $360k gets you in North Oak Park. Keep in mind, this is one block off Austin Blvd which is the border between Oak Park and the Westside of Chicago. Grandma’s 3/1”
It’s a fine little house, but not really above average.
Anon… that is my point. $350k doesn’t by a lot in suburbs close to the city, on the el & metra, with decent schools, and a quaint little downtown.
when you guys talk like this then I don’t feel so bad about the market. I think 350K should get what your specifying, but it does take some time; as some have said it takes 6mo-1yr to sell it can take that long to buy.
“Anon… that is my point.”
Yeah, got that we were on the same page on this one.
From my quick look in OP, you picked a middle of the pack place for that price–there are a few either a bit better located or a bit nicer, but as many not as nice at around $350k or less.
Anon(tfo): You really don’t see “nice” in Oak Park until you get to the upper 400s and low 500s when it comes to the smaller bungalows. Most of the places at that price point have been fully renovated – windows, roofs, CA, pimped out kitchens & baths, etc. For the most part, turn key. Small, but functional with nice finishes.
The larger homes that are fully renovated usually start in the upper 600s to low 700s. $800k gets you a really nice pad that has been renovated renovated from top to bottom.
“But to be “awful nice”, I am expecting something that has a kitchen updated (not replaced) since the 80s, c/a, newer carpet, mechanicals and roof with at least 5 years of expected life left, baths that are better than rental grade, etc. Yeah, that’s HD’s list–>which is the minimum to be better than okay, which is what Bob claimed was readily available in the ‘burbs (and, of course, they are, but mainly in ‘burbs that are on the lower half of desirability for most)”
Awful nice is subjective, and awful nice for 350k is the reason they built Plainfield, Montgomery, and Volo ect. thats why a good bones place is even a better deal for those without the “need it now i am entitled to it” attitude. work your way up people your dream home shouldn’t/isnt the first place you get out of grad school.
Many miss in this debate about home prices is most just dont go from a rental 1br to a 500k+ 5br super home. there is the first home small crap shack buffer people get before they move up the the 500k level.
i will still stand by my you can get a damn good “grandma” place for 350k with good bones in many great burbs. I am off to the park when i get back i will provide a few for ya if needed.
“i will still stand by my you can get a damn good “grandma” place for 350k with good bones in many great burbs. I am off to the park when i get back i will provide a few for ya if needed.”
No need. I know where you’re coming from and know you’re right in that category.
But my question was for Bob, who implied that the owner of *this* place could have instead rented a comparable 2/1 the past 4.5 years (very, very true) and now buy an “awful nice” place in the ‘burbs for the same $350k. Between the tie in to someone who buys a 2/1 in LV and Bob’s well-established disdain for the pricing of homes in the Chi ‘burbs, I was thinking of someplace reasonably updated and reasonably turnkey in a top-third sort of ‘burb. Which certainly exist, but are (as yet) fairly rare.
My gradma bought her home in 1963 in the NW burns and paid iirc 13k. The house is worth roughly 150k today and 220 at the top of the boom. In fact, many of my deceased gvrandmothers neighbors still live on the block. The ponzi scheme is ov er formost people. You buy what you can afford, you don’t buyto move up 5 years later. 350k homes in plainfiled and volo are today worth far less than 350 and many of the current residents can barely afford to pay for them. 350k for a run down bungalow in oak park is a joke. The 2nd tsunami wave of alt-arm resets and recasts is happening as we speak and that is all inventory that will eventually be released into the market. Mark my words.
I am just waiting to see when the city-philes will admit that Chicago services are deteriorating while crime is increasing. With countless shootings over the past several days and mob actions on the lakefront (8 arrests just yesterday at North Ave beach) one has to wonder how city real estate can continue to be justified on a RELATIVE basis (say goodbye to the green zone guys). Sure Chili’s sucks, but at least you don’t get beaten by thugs walking near the beach on a nice summer night. And my commute might be a little longer but at least my kid’s school won’t run out of money next year when the 50 percent federal and state funding dries up. Given the financial state of play, CPS is headed for a train wreck in my opinion. Some suburban districts take less than one tenth the percentage of money.
For all the Gen Ys who are oblivious to how Chicago used to be this must be a real wake up call. City prices used to be MUCH cheaper than the nicer suburbs to justify the crime, lack of services and general miserableness of the Chicago machine. Yet people either are too young to remember or have forgotten. Wake up guys. Well to do young families will start voting with their feet soon enough…
“And my commute might be a little longer”
Half of my office works in Naperville & takes the express train. Their commute is around 45mins. My commute which covers only 4.1 miles down a major thoroughfare (Halsted), can take up to an hour on the city bus, its rare that its under 35mins.
Also the CTA is becoming increasingly less responsive to their customer base now that the cuts are in. I almost sense an FU attitude emanating from many of the employees and services. For instance a lot of people are pissed at the Lake & Halsted stop being removed which was apparently used heavily (most drivers still stop others get into arguments with passengers). And the CTA bus tracker no longer seems to be accurate.
“For all the Gen Ys who are oblivious to how Chicago used to be this must be a real wake up call…Well to do young families will start voting with their feet soon enough…”
It isn’t & it won’t. Chicago has never changed in the aspect that young college educated types and hangers-on (arty/hipsterfolk who supply them weed) come here to find a mate, then flee out to the suburbs when mommy craps out a kid.
Its just that the latest brood has been interrupted by assuming the RE appreciation cycle was going to last ad infinitum. Guess what guys it was a game of musical chairs and if you still haven’t sold your condo yet the joke is on you!
Anyone who thinks people being stuck and forced to send their kids to CPS is a good thing for neighborhoods (like HD) is a bit idealistic in this regard. People will do all sorts of crap for their child’s betterment, even crap they wouldn’t resort to for their own personal gain. Think of having the kiddos live with auntie in New Trier school dist, etc.
Also affordable homes less than 350k are coming here. People might not want to believe it but they absolutely are. Chicago is, always has, and likely always will be a laggard when it comes to RE. Thats why we’re still bottom-finding when it appears the sun states are already there.
Also today’s Case-Shiller proves another long-time regular dead wrong when looking at the data. Looks like you were a little optimistic Gary Lucido in believing Chicago had bottomed last April at a value of 122.3. Its now lower.
Chicagoland didn’t find a bottom in 2009–that was a localized bottom. As will the bottom be this year. All the way until the option-ARM crap gets pushed through the system and resets. Think 2014.
Affordable, nice homes, anon(tfo). And the sooner we get rid of financing GIMMICKS like 10% down and piggyback mortgages, FHA loans and other such nonsense we’ll be closer to finding a real market bottom. 20% down needs to become the price of entry to the real estate game from now on. I’m so sick of hearing about “income rich but asset poor”. Guess what “income rich” means a pretty high risk in economies like this, let the banks take their licks and adjust their lending standards accordingly and for christs sake hopefully the US Government & Federal Reserve will stop being the lenders of last resort for mortgages and mortgage securities.
“Sure Chili’s sucks, but at least you don’t get beaten by thugs walking near the beach on a nice summer night.”
You’re odds of getting beaten up in the suburbs are only marginally better than they are in Chicago. You have to distinguish between the amount of press coverage these incidents get and the number of incidents per resident.
I’m not an apologist for the City of Chicago. I think it’s unfortunately corrupt and failing in many respects. But I also think the press gives people a distorted view of the “dangers” of the city.
I was at North Ave Beach around this time on Monday night. As I have been for many nights for the past six years. I didn’t see this incident and I have never had an incident. Just like 99% of the rest of the people that go there.
Odds have a safe walk through a park in the subburbs that night? 99.9%? I’ll gladly give the suburbanites that extra .9% and my spot on the waiting list at Chili’s.
First of all, it depends on the suburb. For East Lincoln Park where all this ocurred, and where a SFH costs over $2M, I compare to Winnetka. Chance of being mugged there? Laughable. Maybe TP’d if you have a teenage daughter.
Even assuming your numbers and “it can’t happen to me because it hasn’t happened so far” perspective, you think 10x the risk is nothing? 10x the risk of a heart attack, you don’t think people change their behavior? Cancer? Anything life imperiling? But really, you can have fun with numbers all you want because what is true is that nothing like this wave of crime has occured in the last 10 years. This is the stuff of the mid 1990s for those who can remember what certain areas of the city were like then.
Setting all that aside, you prove the point, perception is reality. When girls get bludgeoned returning from the bar at 3am, people notice. When North Ave beach becomes a proving ground for junior gang members to do their initiation bidding and beat up a few joggers, people notice. When politicians freak out and suggest a national guard occupation, people definitely notice. Hell even some idiot from Iowa fooled everyone by ridiculously faking a crime — why? — because people notice all the other stuff which is very much real. These people are often would-be buyers of over priced city real estate. The fact of the matter is that the violent crime that is occuring is not necessarily overblown — 10 shootings a night takes the cake in any city in America. Overblown is when a girl in a rich suburb accidentally hits another and draws a $500k bail.
And, I am glad you agree that Chicago has issues for lots of other reasons other than crime. What follows is that all of these should be reflected in its relatively over-priced real estate; but they aren’t. This is primarily because of the stubbornly perpetuated myth that people can have their cake and eat it too. That “Green Zone” areas are realy just urban versions of Park Ridge. That is of course not true, and unfortunately lots of people will find themselves bereft of the dream in the next few years. At that point they will sell the 2010-purchased city house for a loss (thought they had a deal, I know) and buy the suburban house which has held up in price on a relative basis.
Gentrification is a mirage, one which is slowly (or not so slowly) slipping away.
“Half of my office works in Naperville & takes the express train. Their commute is around 45mins. My commute which covers only 4.1 miles down a major thoroughfare (Halsted), can take up to an hour on the city bus, its rare that its under 35mins.”
Probably not that low. The train ride from Naperville is about 40 minutes. The only way that’s possible is if they live within an incredibly short walk of the Naperville stop and their office is at, like, Jackson and Canal.
I live in Naperville, drive to the 59 stop (parking at Naperville sucks), do things at a leisurely pace to preserve my sanity, work near Madison and Wacker, and it takes me about 1:20 to 1:30 either way door to door.
I’ve been saying for a while now that the foreclosure crisis has been gutting the ghetto. Any equity that was left was stripped in the form of multiple heloc’s and fraud. Block after block has gutted neighborhoods so all that’s left is long term residents, gang bangers children of section 8 parents and public housing residents.
The congregation of gangbangers at north street beach is an after effect of the gutting of the ghetto. Also a factor is how these gangbangers got here. Our wonderful city is 1/2 totally ghetto and unlivable for middle class folks, filled with uneducated, disenfranchised and jobless youth. They’ve literally got nothing better to do than congregate in nice areas and harass the local citizens now that there are so few left in their own neighborhoods. It’s no surprise they want to hang out in the nice areas and take what you’ve got. That’s what its all about. They don’t give a F**K. They don’t care. They don’t care if they get arrested. They’ve got no job, they got no where to go, the government pays for their illegitimate children, etc.
“Many miss in this debate about home prices is most just dont go from a rental 1br to a 500k+ 5br super home. there is the first home small crap shack buffer people get before they move up the the 500k level.”
This may be true but there are plenty of buyers of the 2/2 “luxury” condos in Chicago who now want to move to the house in the burbs. They had 1500 to 1700 square feet in a new conversion in the city for $400k with granite, stainless steel and brand new kitchen. Now they want that in their very first house in the suburbs.
Then they go to Park Ridge or Evanston and discover that for $500k they will probably get a house with an old kitchen, no central air and nasty bathrooms. And they can’t believe it.
Some of those buyers will push out to further out suburbs where their money still does go farther (newer construction and bigger square footage- and yes- newer kitchens.) Most don’t have the cash on hand to “trade down” to get a house with a non-renovated kitchen and fix it up in the inner suburbs.
That’s their dilemma now (not to mention losing any downpayment they had in their first property- which is likely a 2-bedroom condo.)
Buying the new condo first actually tainted them for buying the starter home. These buyers now think every house should have stainless and inch thick granite.
“Nobody talking about the C-S numbers that came out today??? Chicago condos had a HUGE drop – Boston, New York, LA essentially stable. SF had a somewhat substantial drop, too, but nothing compared to Chicago.
Is the Chicago condo market tanking while other cities’ are sort of holding up?”
C-S is showing that condo prices have fallen 26% since the peak in Chicago. Our sell-off is now more sharp than SF, NY or LA’s. NY has essentially stabilized while we’re still going down the tank.
Chicago’s month over month decline for all properties was also very pronounced. Are we now declining faster than any of the other major 20 cities they track? It looked like it to me.
This is also what I’m seeing out there. We’re beginning to see a rout in the condo prices- even in Lakeview and other trendy neighborhoods. 99.7% of those (give or take) who bought in the last 5 years will not make money if they have to sell. And most have no idea that the condo they bought for $400k is now worth just $300k.
I’m seeing more short sales hitting the market now as the reality is sinking in for some. But those will ultimately bring prices down even lower.
“Affordable, nice homes, anon(tfo).”
So, you *were* talking out of your [whatever] when you said they could buy an “awful nice” house in the ‘burbs for $350k. Good to know.
“I’m seeing more short sales hitting the market now as the reality is sinking in for some. But those will ultimately bring prices down even lower.”
And, unless C-S changes/ed it’s methodology, get counted with some discount factor in calculating the Index, understating somewhat the reality of the market for anyone considering buying a short sale or f/c.
Any takers on how many shootings there will be tonight? I’ve got a green zone o/(u) and citywide. Starting line is 1 and 3.
Anyone that was at North Ave Beach yesterday or tonight had some serious culture shock smacking them in the face.
Think the worst elements of the Taste meets the beach.
Last night around 8 I saw two gangs squaring off right in front of Castaways. There were about 15 dudes on each side. Not enough cops in all of downtown to stop that if it would have popped off. I was lucky enough to walk by right as each group was doing the “start acting like you’re grabbing your gun to psych out the other gang” move. Good times.
Tonight, I went back for more. As the rolling police patrols came down the lake front trail (absolutely insane in it’s own right) I saw groups of girls throwing signals as the patrols approached to other groups of gangsters who would then take of running in the opposite direction. I got to feel like I was in an episode of The Wire.
Then, after walking up North to Wells I saw the group of CPD foot patrols the city had to deploy to monitor the bus stop the kids use to get home after their night at the beach. A young girl in jogging gear with a fresh black eye was frantically talking to one of the officers. Across the street in front of the McDonalds a group of cops in a Tahoe was chasing off a group of kids that were having another stand off.
This is the middle of Old Town, folks and it’s not even June yet. We’re in for one crazy Summer.
The National Guard thing doesn’t sound so crazy to me all of a sudden.
The city better rein this in or the tax base is going to dry up faster than you can say “White F’ing Flight”.
Highand Park and Deerfield are excellent buys for the cost of the house, but check out the taxes….no residential/commercial difference that one finds in Cook County. But you get what you pay for. The Ravinia section of Highland Park is especially well priced, great family area, close to beach/lake, a few blocks to the Metra, small business district, low traffic, tennis courts, very safe, and excellent grade school. Walk to Ravinia in the summer and enjoy the music.
But if you don’t have the $350,000 and $7,000 for taxes go to Brookfield for a $250,000 house and $3,500 for taxes and stay away from Salt Creek and the Des Plaines River. If you like the west suburbs and wonderful homes, Oak Park and Riverside are great, but taxes can be quite high, especially in Oak Park. If you don’t mind colorful bikers, Lyons is interesting and very reasonable. Schools and taxes are a problem, but home prices can make private schooling affordable.
Sabrina deleted my comments posted previously, which is a travesty as many were very pertinent. She is quite the nazi of lately.
The thesis was basically that “those people” look out of place in any north shore or otherwise decent suburb and are confronted with their idiotic paradigms in life head on young in life, and tend to move away from places like that as they aren’t tolerated.
Take same said people and drop them off in Chicago for school & on N Ave beach for leisure where sheeple are taught “not to judge” and they can get through the joke that are city institutions quite fine, even receiving public assistance to fill in for their absentee dada, and they’re quite at home.
I’m not sure the crime will adversely impact valuations altogether though because 1) it surely happens in NYC and its holding up quite fine and 2) the people getting accosted are dumb young people who have less street sense than a rock and probably believe in their paradigm “not to judge” from some MTV politically correct indoctrination station and not reality. These young people aren’t the same class that is buying real estate. These are 18-25yr old transplants whose idea of “those people” is Will Smith from the Fresh Prince.
Sorry kiddos this ain’t Dubuque and I don’t care how beautiful HD says it is he can move there for all I care. Move HD, move, I dare ya.
If you see a group of baggy pants “hip-hop attired” (is that PC enough?) young “men” under a bridge and think you’re just going to jog around them and tell them you’re coming around on the left and expect them to adhere to the same pleasantries & societal norms you do and move over instead of punching your dumbarse in the head, then you had it coming.
And that kiddo killed on Fullerton last night–flashing gang signs. Good riddance.
Sure there are problems with violence in the city. But its also the newsmedia’s job to exaggerate them. Besides violent crime doesn’t hit home for the sheeple until they are personally affected. Until then its an abstract concept like the wars or the stock market. There’s reality TV to be watched, dontchaknow?
JMM basically the cycle of migration isn’t at risk of changing because it never really has: young people move to the city for the excitement and singles bars and find their mate and leave. The only differing variable is now they can’t flip their uber-cool-urbanite condo when mommy craps out a kid cuz they don’t understand money and paid entirely too much for said condo. They also can’t afford to send junior to private school with said outsized mortgage on said condo.
Doesn’t mean Chicago greenzone proper will be any less desirable to the youngins. Only that the former youngins of a certain age who now own condos are basically F’d cuz they missed that this whole RE game was basically a gaint ponzi-scheme of musical chairs and they never got out while the music was playing.
Oh yeah and when I say youngins I mean people willing to pay under 1k in rent for a 1BR. I don’t mean idiots like this owner who dropped 350k for a 2 bedroom apartment. That’s a kind of speculative naivety the banks reserve for those with a FICO score. LOL!
“At that point they will sell the 2010-purchased city house for a loss (thought they had a deal, I know) and buy the suburban house which has held up in price on a relative basis. ”
Depends _entirely_ on the migrations of new folk from the areas of Dubuque, Lincoln, West Bend, Cincinnati, St. Louis, etc. The migration-patterns of the midwest yups, looking for a more urban experience than their home cities offer, basically support the Green Zone.
Lets say there are enough that don’t want kids and actually stick to that paradigm–could support higher RE valuations going forward. I dunno the birthrates in Manhattan or trendy parts of Brooklyn but I’d have to figure they’re a lot lower these days vs. when real estate was affordable.
And as far as suburbs go Park Ridge..well..I consider that crappy older housing stock combined with city problems & Cook county taxes. If you’re going to go suburban go big or go home–if you don’t have a big ol’ yard and a nice deck and an awesome grill whats the freakin’ point?
“I got to feel like I was in an episode of The Wire.”
And we all know where Baltimore city real estate is, right? Good color — my point that this is NOT an isolated incident is further supported. Gang activity, and resultant crime, is on the rise.
Yet another city amenity lost.
I thought that shootings pretty much went up every year once the weather starts warming up and school is out.
In this particular case, its been so hot that I have seen a lot of project residents walking along North Ave (as is their right) to spend the entire day at the beach.
Going to the beach is free and its a way to cool off. Still going to the beach all day plus booze and the Sun potentially lead to CRAZY behavior.
Its unfortunate, but I still think we are a far way from Baltimore.
Chicagobull,
Did you get to see the unreported daley hiding it fiasco first hand?
I was at the park by the lake last night and monday too, just north of N ave beach towards armitage and fullerton monday. i didnt notice anything out of the norm and nothing last night either. (maybe i dont know what the norm is.) or maybe i am used to thugs walking around and just think nothing of it.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/north.avenue.beach.2.1714897.html
Groove,
You were a bit too far north. The real action is right at Castaways and then moving up North to Wells.
Chicagobull, I remember in the early 90’s when a big fight would break out on N ave beach some would run away most would stay and watch.
back then odds were nobody will pull out a gun and start shooting.
nowadays f’ing run like lightning!!!!!!! cause most def somebody is going to “pop off” as these kids now dont give a f! its sad 🙁
back in 94 or 93 i was at the washington blue line in the mass crowds from the taste fire works and a gangbanger opened fire during a fight with another group (the other group didnt really look like bangers) i grabbed my girlfriend at the time and my third wheel friend jumped on the track and ran the tunnels.
since then if a fight breaks out and i am not in it i am gone in a flash right at the first sign of the rumble.
“Sabrina deleted my comments posted previously, which is a travesty as many were very pertinent. She is quite the nazi of lately.”
Judging from the post Sabrina let through, and from Bob’s past posts, I’ll take a wild guess that his comments were deleted because they were offensive. References to “those people”??? Saying a jogger “had it coming” because they tried to run around a group of black kids at the beach??? Seriously???
Bob — how many times have you walked by a black person in this city? And how many times has that ended in an assault?
People that live in the city aren’t leaving because there was a fight at Castaways. (Most people that buy the properties we’re talking about don’t hang out at Castaways, but that’s a different discussion.) This doesn’t make them “sheeple.” It makes them intelligent humans that know how to differentiate between real and perceived risks.
Put it another way: Does every get together in the suburbs turn into a swingers party? Do all suburban parents buy their kids booze? Is every teenage driver in the suburbs inclined to commit a hit and run? No, no, and no. It’s stupid to blow things out of proportion for the suburbs just as it is for the city. People get away with doing it for the city because of not-so-subtle racism. I.e., “those people” are different.
And, unlike most people commenting on this topic, I’m not just talking out my a**. I actually live in this neighborhood. I go to North Avenue Beach on a regular basis. For many years. I have NEVER had a SINGLE problem.
“As the rolling police patrols came down the lake front trail (absolutely insane in it’s own right) ”
So, you weren’t in the city *ever* in the mid-90s? I’m honestly surprised that the lakefront patrols were discontinued. It’s no more insane than the mounted police in Central Park and significantly less insane that EsEff allowing the hobo camps in GG Park.
Unless, of course, they were all in riot gear; that *would* be insane.
I have to chuckle at all this, as while the recent mayhem at North Ave is something to at least be aware of, I can’t imagine what most of today’s creampuffs would do if they were teleported to North Avenue beach back in the mid 80s, when there was always a large Cabrini contingency around, strutting with the ridiculously oversized ghetto blasters. I still can see in my mind’s eye a dude with a radio so big he had to put it on a wagon – can’t even imagine what he was shelling out for batteries for that thing.
Also, note that the fight leading to 6 kids/thugs being arrested involved a knucklehead from Barrington who was apparently drunk and obnoxious (not that that warrants a beating, unless you’re mouthing off to tactical cops).
“can’t even imagine what he was shelling out for batteries for that thing.”
Walgreens provided him a five-finger discount. Duh!
“dude with a radio so big he had to put it on a wagon – can’t even imagine what he was shelling out for batteries for that thing”
hahahahaha i loved that guy!!! there was that dude with the ghetto blaster on the radio flyer, another on a bike pulling a radio flyer with a almost as large boom box.
but skeptic the one that takes the cake is, do you remember the skinny JJ walker guy on a 10 speed and had his boom box on the back of the bike rack hooked up to a equalizer on his handle bars.
MF’ing classic!
BTW,
Radio flyer a great chicago company and you peeps with kids should buy more of their products to support chicago business and workers.
“Radio flyer a great chicago company and you peeps with kids should buy more of their products to support chicago business and workers.”
Didn’t they close (or at least substantially reduce) their Chicago manufacturing operations? Move most of the manufacturing to China?
Radio Flyer in China – yes. MFG in China. Design / engineering / front office is still in Chicago.
Right where Grand hits Fullerton. I love driving past that big ol’ wagon out front, always got a laugh.
yes MFG is in china like most companies. I dont know any chicago MFG company that doesnt at least get raw from china or some other type of outsource to there.
Barry, love that wagon too. its always so darn clean and sparkly in the sun. love it.
I bow to Groove’s memory of ghetto blaster history on the beach – my god, no, I do not remember said dude with the bike!
I do remember being able to swim off of the rocks at Fullerton, that was awesome. Beautiful clear water, no sand in your pants or shoes…
Skeptic you have to remember the late 80’s state st street performer with the extra tight levi’s (see the buldge from a block away) and Michael jackson 1000 zipper jacket. He had the ghetto blaster decorated with…well the best way to describe it it was “Bedazzled” and had tricycle streamers on the side and everything.
but boy that guy could dance his butt off and all day in those extremely tight levi’s.
i dropped him a $20 three separate times in his hat and always dropped a dollar when i passed him by.
One time while enjoying my usual Friday night happy hour around 9pm I saw some dumb hipster on a bike going down Lincoln avenue blasting some sort of terrible progressive rock from his home made giant speaker box that he was dragging behind his fixed gear bike on a little trailer. I laughed quite hard at that one since it was so unexpected
“One time while enjoying my usual Friday night happy hour around 9pm I saw some dumb hipster on a bike going down Lincoln avenue blasting some sort of terrible progressive rock from his home made giant speaker box that he was dragging behind his fixed gear bike on a little trailer.”
Critical Mass after-party-of-one.
Terrible progressive rock? What, like ELP or Marillion or something?
I don’t remember exactly what it was, I was pretty hammered from the all you can eat and drink for 3 hours special for $10
Sonies:
Granted, I’m old yeller at this point, but what are you suggestions for Green Zone all you can eat and drink specials now days?
You pretty much have a window on Fridays during happy hour, but pretty much most crappy college or post college bars (you know, Mad River, Duffys, McGees, Kelseys, Kendalls) have those specials on fridays from like 6-9pm or around that time. Kendalls is probably my favorite place to do that though I haven’t been in a long time and I need to go back!
also, an awesome site for cheap stuff and drink/food specials is brokehipster dot com
North Ave Beach report for Wednesday:
More cops than you could shake a stick at. Literally. It would have been close to impossible to shake a stick at every cop along the lake front and parked in front of Castaways.
Bike cops. Undercover units. Groups of cops on 4 wheelers. About 10 cruisers. A couple paddy wagons. Cop Tahoes. Plain cloths cops in bullet proof vests. Mounted units.
They let their presence be known in a way I’ve never seen in this city.
There were about 1/4 the number of people down there tonight. There were maybe two or three groups of questionable looking kids compared to about 500 from Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday.
Good job CPD.