Trying to Sell a 2/2 Just 15 Months Later in River North: 645 N. Kingsbury
This 2-bedroom in Admiral’s Pointe at 645 N. Kingsbury in River North has had quite a run on the MLS since 2008.
First listed in October 2008, it finally found a buyer after numerous price reductions in August 2010. It sold for $95,000 under the 2006 purchase price.
That buyer, however, put it back on the market just 9 months later.
It is now 15 months after the purchase and it has been reduced $19,000.
It has a south facing balcony with city views.
There are hardwood floors throughout.
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
It has central air, washer/dryer in the unit and parking is available for $25,000.
This unit is listed $11,000 above the 2010 purchase price.
Will it get a premium to just 15 months ago? Or will this sell for even less?
The building is also FHA approved, for those who don’t have a big downpayment.
Greg Whelan at Redfin has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1902: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in March 2002 for $362,500 (included a parking space)
- Sold in March 2006 for $390,000 (no parking)
- Originally listed in October 2008 for $384,999
- Reduced numerous times
- Finally sold in August 2010 for $295,000 (no parking)
- Re-listed again in May 2011 for $325,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $306,000 (plus $25,000 for parking)
- Assessments of $702 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $5019
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 13×12
- Bedroom #2: 13×12
This knife catcher is going to draw some blood.
290k with parking.
Chuks price seems about right, 265k plus 25 for parking, give or take 15k on either side.
OT: College debt:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Average-student-loan-debt-cnnm-1435221877.html
“Average student loan debt tops $25,000”
That’s clearly not as dire as some make it out to be. A college degree isn’t nearly the “ripoff” that some here like to think it is, and is a far cry from the 100-200k anecdotes that are passed off here as commonplace.
Chuk: That is “average.”
It is still $400 or $500 a month for the next 20 years of that person’s life. Are you buying a car if you’re already paying for one? No.
Also- check out the NY Fed’s website which has a great map of the US that you can roll over and see which counties are the worst for student loan delinquencies. In some counties in Nevada more than 20% of people are 60+ days delinquent! Cook County wasn’t too bad- at 11%- when the national average is 10.6% so we’re about “average” for our default rates.
“Chuk: That is “average.””
Exactly. And the dire numbers you often cite as a reason college is not worth it are not. Also, notice this sentence:
“College seniors who took out loans to fund their college education owed an average of $25,250”
This is not the average student. This is the average student that took out loans. Maybe not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless.
If Chuk’s price of $290k is correct these sellers will have to bring just over $20,000 to the table just to get out of this property after 15 months of ownership and painting the walls.
There is a corner 2/2 in 653 N. Kingsbury down the street that is a short sale listed at $299,000 with the parking. That unit is under contract.
“If Chuk’s price of $290k is correct these sellers will have to bring just over $20,000 to the table just to get out of this property”
I would be very surprised if they would be willing to do that. In that case, this will either end up sitting on the market at too high a price, or it will become a short sale IMO.
“I would be very surprised if they would be willing to do that. In that case, this will either end up sitting on the market at too high a price, or it will become a short sale IMO.”
Isn’t this the problem we’re going to see in the next 2 to 3 years with the FHA loans? They only require 3.5% down. The market continues to fall more than this in just 1 year’s time. When you add in selling costs you are guaranteed to be underwater on a property within months of buying it. If you have to sell, for whatever reason, many of the FHA buyers won’t be able to do so. They’ll be trapped in the property.
Chuk: College debt is now more than credit card debt in this country. It can NEVER be discharged. LOL.
This is mainly on Generation Y although Gen X has some of it. The baby boomers have no idea what it’s like to graduate with this kind of overhang. When you live in NYC and you have rent of $1200 a month and a loan payment of $500 and you make $30,000 or $40,000 a year- it just doesn’t add up. Of course, that could be why something like 80% of recent college graduates are living at home with their parents.
It will set back a whole generation. Sure- the rich kids have no debt. Good for them. But that is not the majority of the students.
“Isn’t this the problem we’re going to see in the next 2 to 3 years with the FHA loans?”
Sure. But they were stupid to buy if they were going to sell in 2 to 3 years. And if it isn’t a planned sale, well, sorry for your luck.
“If you have to sell, for whatever reason, many of the FHA buyers won’t be able to do so.”
Correct. But that also assumes the market won’t stop falling.
“Chuk: College debt is now more than credit card debt in this country. It can NEVER be discharged. LOL.”
Oh, just you wait and see. College debt will be the next government handout.
“When you live in NYC and you have rent of $1200 a month and a loan payment of $500 and you make $30,000 or $40,000 a year”
Again, you aren’t using a realistic example. Are SOME people in that situation? Yes. Is the AVERAGE person in that situation? No. $30-40k in NYC is nothing. Cashiers make that.
“that could be why something like 80% of recent college graduates are living at home with their parents.”
In 1992, I lived at home with my parents for around 4 years after college. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to save up money to buy a place. Was a great idea, I highly recommend it.
Sabrina,
Can you cite where you read 80% of recent college grads are living at home? Would be curious to see their methodology on that.
This unit is nicer than many in the building. There is a separate area for a dining table. Most units don’t have this. I understand that this building has capped rentals to remain FHA eligible so this buyer probably can’t rent it out.
Chuk,
you’re wrong about the college debt issue. Many people with advanced or professional degrees have $100,000 in debt or more.
The article references only college seniors who graduated with an average of $25,000 in debt, which is not an insignificant amount of money especially for those seniors with more than average amount of debt. Don’t forget that much of that debt was taken a few years ago when stafford rates were 6.0%; and private loan rates were even higher.
A $25,000 debt is a few hundred bucks a month for 10 or 15 or sometimes 20 years. That’s a drag on the economy anyway you look at it.
There is $1 trillion in student loans outstanding borne by the younger generation compared to slightly less than $1 trillion in credit card debt borne by the entire country. $1 T in debt that never goes away, debt that didn’t even exist 15 years.
Call people stupid, or moronic, or berate 17 years old (who can’t even legally vote or smoke and many of whom have never held a job) for making bad decisions about where to go to college all you want, it’s like blaming the victim;
but regardless of how you feel, these loans are here to stay, this is a huge problem going forward, and as a society we’re going to have to deal with it one way or another.
Was your generation burdened with $1T in student loans when you graduated college?
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/10/survey-85-of-new-college-grads-moving-back-in-with-mom-and-dad/
Again, I’m not going to pay for the seller to re-coup the costs associated with selling. Your property isn’t worth more just because you don’t want to bring money to the table. If anything, prices have dropped in the last 15 months. I say $250,000 (on a good day and including parking).
“you’re wrong about the college debt issue. Many people with advanced or professional degrees have $100,000 in debt or more.”
Who cares? Many people have cancer. The average person does not.
“Was your generation burdened with $1T in student loans when you graduated college?”
Dunno. I owed about 12k almost 20 years ago. And I went to a state college.
Who cares? Obviously not you. But it’s a drag on housing, household formation, and new car purchases, and growth of credit cards going forward. These industries care immensely.
“The article references only college seniors who graduated with an average of $25,000 in debt, which is not an insignificant amount of money especially for those seniors with more than average amount of debt.”
Ha. That’s why it’s called an “average”. For every person that owes 35k, there is someone that owes 15k.
“Who cares? Obviously not you. But it’s a drag on housing, household formation, and new car purchases”
Never said it wasn’t. But you and Sabrina like to exaggerate the amounts. Like you just did. You were shown that the average debt was 25k, yet you still crack out your 100k example to “prove” your point.
“it’s like blaming the victim”
Ha. Are you one of those morons that feel bad for people who bought a house they knew couldn’t afford?
Sabrina, 25k in loans if you paid that off at a rate of 4-500 a month, they would be completely gone in 5 years.
The required minimum payment on 25k in loans is like 150 bucks, that isn’t going to set a generation back and force everyone to live with their parents… does it suck? Sure, but the increased income and hiring ability you get from obtaining a degree far outweighs that.
“Sure, but the increased income and hiring ability you get from obtaining a degree far outweighs that.”
Correct (unless you are a history major).
“Ha. Are you one of those morons that feel bad for people who bought a house they knew couldn’t afford?”
At least they can walk away from a bad decision….
“Ha. Are you one of those morons that feel bad for people who bought a house they knew couldn’t afford?”
I’m curious, chuk, if you purposely excluded mocking feeling badly for those who could afford but were, in fact, the real suckers?
And don’t get me wrong, they ARE a drag on the economy because every dollar does help, and I do think that higher education costs will be a drag on society down the road, just not as severe as some of you make it out to be just yet…
I don’t know where all the money is going, but this is just another government funded ponzi scheme, and it will not end well for our children.
Chuk, you’ve already got your mind made up, and there’s not changing it, not even $1T in new student loan debt just for undergraduates. All those horror stories mean nothing, the high default rates mean nothing, the inability to make them go away, means nothing. Student loans are not terrible for *Everyone* but they are pretty damn bad, and some 18 -22 yos got really screwed.
“Chuk, you’ve already got your mind made up, and there’s not changing it”
Made my mind up about what? High college costs are a problem, but you and Sabrina exaggerate them. Period.
“and some 18 -22 yos got really screwed.”
And some 18-22 yos really screwed themselves. Or their parents did. Or their guidance counselors did. Or they did by goofing off in college by not doing well, etc etc etc.
“I’m curious, chuk, if you purposely excluded mocking feeling badly for those who could afford but were, in fact, the real suckers?”
No, because those aren’t the ones generally portrayed as “victims”. Big difference between sucker and victim.
just imagine what kind of place our economy would be at today if instead of the Stimulus (1 and 2) thegovernment just basically discharged all student loan debt. (800billion outstanding back in 08)
Rich wouldn’t benefit, neither would those that already likely receive aid, banks would benefit, and kids and young adults SPEND like crazy, and it would be far more efficient than any tax breaks, or other worthless crap stimulus that the previous package had in it
but then again someone somewhere in the government (probably at sallie mae) would lose their job, so no way we’d think outside of the box in washington dc
Just so I have this straight: People who bought generic sloop 2/2’s for 400k were morons, but people who paid 150k for a history degree are victims?
My college degree was a waste of money in some sense. It certainly didn’t help me at all in my ability to do my job, but I would not have been hired without having it plus a master’s. Most of my coworkers have master’s degrees or higher. It didn’t teach us how to do these jobs. College is a scam these days. If I had a kid who didn’t have a very specific career interest, I would strongly encourage him or her to start off at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school.
It’s ridiculous that we have to waste money on college just to get jobs that don’t even require a degree. I wish it was still possible to start off at the bottom and move to the top. My grandpa didn’t even finish high school, but he was able to move to the top of his field by starting at the bottom and working his way up.
“No, because those aren’t the ones generally portrayed as “victims”. Big difference between sucker and victim.”
Not around here. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone call the liars victims. But, I have seen some call those who could afford what they bought at bubble prices the “real” victims. Regardless, I’ve seen elsewhere what you mention.
“Just so I have this straight: People who bought generic sloop 2/2?s for 400k were morons, but people who paid 150k for a history degree are victims?”
I’m wondering about that, too.
“Regardless, I’ve seen elsewhere what you mention.”
Yes, and it’s funny, because I was actually going to add “on cnn.com etc”, but I thought that would confuse matters.
“In 1992, I lived at home with my parents for around 4 years after college. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to save up money to buy a place. Was a great idea, I highly recommend it.”
Don’t tell my children that!!!
There are a lot of intangibles that colleges teach. Have you ever had a conversation with an average person who didn’t go to college and compare it with a conversation you had with someone who went to college? There are huge differences (and not just technical stuff) – Some intangibles that college teach:
1. how to do a beer bong and NOT throw up
2. how to hold two drinks in one hand, a cigarette in the other while dancing
3. how many shots you can do before you throw up
4. how to break into the girls’ dorm w/o being caught
5. how to stay up all night if you have to
6. how to use your connections in a fraternity to get what you want
7. how to dream about future life and pretend to be grown up on your parents $
“If Chuk’s price of $290k is correct these sellers will have to bring just over $20,000 to the table just to get out of this property after 15 months of ownership and painting the walls.”
That’s more than a $50K loss.
#1902 closed 8/23/10 $295,000
mortgage 8/23/10 $291,080
p81 closed 8/20/10 $27,000 cash
“290k with parking”
Loss from purch price of $32,000
Transaction costs ~ $24,000
Yep, $32K is already spent plus more than $20K to the closing table at $290K w/pkg.
Ouch, that really sucks for them
“If I had a kid who didn’t have a very specific career interest, I would strongly encourage him or her to start off at a community college and then transfer to a 4-year school.”
You’re in luck! One place where $65K is actually treated as poor (at least for family income) is HYP. You can send your kid there for free.
“That’s more than a $50K loss.”
Which is why I don’t see them bringing anything to the table. They may be willing to lose their down payment/equity in a short sale, but I can’t imagine that they will be willing to kick in another $20k on top of that. Seems like too bitter of a pill to swallow in such a short period of time for most.
Stupid question: Was it actually smart for the buyer to put all the cash into the parking, instead of the property? The price of parking likely hasn’t gone down much. Could they could sell the parking for 27k, and short sale the condo at 265k (or whatever)? That means they’d only lose the 5k in equity in the property?
“Was it actually smart for the buyer to put all the cash into the parking, instead of the property?”
Yes, if it wasn’t inadvertent — then it was lucky. They dealt with 2 sellers so one loan wasn’t likely at the time. Prob couldn’t get a loan for the pkg alone. HD can answer how banks look at other assets when doing a short sale. I’d sell the pkg fast if a ss is in the future.
“HD can answer how banks look at other assets when doing a short sale. I’d sell the pkg fast if a ss is in the future.”
Might depend on the time lag between selling the parking and trying for the SS and what you do with the proceeds. If you sold the parking and used it to pay off credit card bills, or a down payment on ANOTHER property, that money is probably “safe”. Not sure you could get away with gifting 13k each to your mother and father ahead of a short sale…
“Also- check out the NY Fed’s website which has a great map of the US that you can roll over and see which counties are the worst for student loan delinquencies.”
Sabrina, do you have a link for this? I would like to see this.
For people interested in seeing the map of the US with all the delinquent loans on it (mortgages, student loans)- you can check it out here:
http://www.newyorkfed.org/creditconditions/
“2 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
Bedroom #1: 13×12
Bedroom #2: 13×12”
That’s 312 sf total for the two bedrooms. It probably has a stacked washer/dryer (no laundry room per se), therefore it’s no wonder why they “omitted” the square footage of this 2 bedroom, it’s probably under 1100 sf.
Hi Helmethofer,
As the seller’s agent, I opted not to list the square footage of the unit because there is no uniform standard of measurement set forth by the Chicago Association of Realtors.
If one is searching for the square footage, they could look to other listings within that tier in the building, like this one:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/645-N-Kingsbury-St-60654/unit-2502/home/12706698
Greg – and while we’re at it, how about lobbying the MLS to provide a space in their listing-input form so we can list the measurements of the bathroom(s)? Amazing how many people will turn down a property because the master bath doesn’t have a separate shower or the second bath doesn’t have much “turn around” space.
As of today the warehouse lender I use to check for rates has stopped doing conventional condo loans with less than 30% down. I believe the significance of this will be lost on many who post here.
Did clio just claim to have children?
Pete, where have you been? It is not the first time.