What Will Be the Biggest Chicago Real Estate Stories of 2011?
The real estate market is slow, as it always is this time of the year, so next week we’ll have our “Biggest Stories” posts on what to look out for in 2011.
Last year’s predictions on the “Biggest Stories” were the following:
- Third Biggest Story of 2010: Excess Inventory Continues to Plague Downtown
- Second Biggest Story of 2010: What Will Happen to all the Million Dollar Homes?
- First Biggest Story of 2010: Foreclosures, Foreclosures, Foreclosures
Did these three issues turn out to be the biggest stories this year? Did we get it right?
What do you think will be the Biggest Stories in Chicago real estate in 2011?
Give me your ideas so I can incorporate them into our prediction posts for next week.
Here is Crib Chatter’s holiday schedule for the next two weeks:
- No new posts on Friday, December 24
- No new posts on Friday, December 31
Otherwise, we’ll be back to our regular schedule in the new year.
Happy Holidays everyone!
Sabrina
Chicago Real Estate Stories of 2011
1. The double dip in housing prices that are not in PRIME green zone hoods. This includes single family homes and will especially hit condos (i.e. what is happening in the south loop in 2010).
2. Shadow inventory of foreclosures hitting the market. Are we going to see over 50% of houses sold be foreclosures and short sales?
3. Rising interest rates. Within the last month, the eurodollar futures have shot up along with the yield on the 10 year. Will home buyers be able to afford that bigger house with a higher mortgage payment.
It’s not a Chicago specific topic, and it’s a tax issue, but I’d say that the rumored idea of doing away with the mortgage interest tax deduction, and the attendant battles, could be become a big story of 2011. (As a recent buyer, I for one would be dusting off the old pitch fork to storm the castle.)
Locally (to me anyways), the embattled proposed LP project around the hospital (big grocery store and 160 residential units), which just received the zoning green light over the alderman’s objection, could be a big story.
I’d like to see the city get serious about the unbuilt eyesores that are glaring monuments to the RE downturn, e.g., the Spire hole and especially that hulking mess on Wacker (the Shanghai?). That could be a big story.
Lastly, now that the “last resident” has moved out, the total redevelopment of Cabrini might be a big story.
“What Will Be the Biggest Chicago Real Estate Stories of 2011?”
1. HD will buy a 2/2 condo in Southport at the 2005 price point
2. The Rahmfather will make the south loop CHA owned and will be the new cabrini
3. yoChicago will have even MORE interviews with suckers, oops sorry buyers at 235 van buren
The mortgage interest deduction should be eliminated, along with most other deductions and loopholes. It does not benefit renters, cash buyers, people who have paid off their mortgages, or buyers of lower-priced homes whose interest deduction is usually less than the standard deduction. It encourages home buyers to take on more debt and penalizes frugality. Like all government interference in the economy, it creates perverse incentives and is just another subsidy for home buyers among many, that has helped drive house inflation.
I’d personally like to see a flat tax of about 8% across the board, with all deductions and loopholes eliminated. This would drastically simplify tax collection and steeply reduced the costs involved.
But I suppose there are too many stakeholders in things just the way they are- all those IRS employees, tax accountants and lawyers, and individuals who benefit from these deductions, to institute a fair and rational tax policy.
Admittedly I haven’t actually gone back to last year’s thread, but if those were the three predicted biggest stories then CC’ers did pretty damn well. The third and second choices were spot on, even if the first (foreclosures) wasn’t too big of a story. Here are my predictions (as someone with no real insight into the housing market):
3d: New additions to banks’ inventories of homes as more mortgagors strategically default (particularly on 1 and 2 bedrooms condos in and around downtown).
2d: The glut of houses for sale as banks move much of the current shadow inventory onto the market.
1st: Continued price declines in the Chicago market throughout most of 2011 (though I think at the end of 2011 or early 2012 these will stabilize)
Muy insightful, Calderon. “Stabilize” is the new bottom call.
I’ll bet we put the bottom in on real estate this year. Won’t be a bottom followed by rocket fuel to the upside, but I do think the lows come this year. Still wouldn’t recommend it as an investment though if you want to own RE because you want to live in it; then its definitely a reasonable time to buy.
Took Amazon 10 years to regain its tech bubble highs so it could take quite a while for prices to get back to 2006 prices and they may be a laggard for years to come.
Of course city/state issues are also key in RE; if chicago debt problems turn it into Detroit then it will never bottom, but I don’t think that scenario will play out.
The bottom in housing costs – a combination of home prices and mortgage rates. Even if home prices don’t bottom (I think they will) mortgage rates will bottom and the combined effect will be a bottom in housing costs for buyers.
“The mortgage interest deduction should be eliminate along with most other deductions and loopholes. It does not benefit renters,…”
Renters do benefit from their LL’s ability to deduct mort int as an operating expense.
Gary, are you talking real dollars?
I think the banks will release more properties into the market as they’ve now resumed the foreclosure process with a vengence. That wil drive down prices further but sales volume will pick up in 2011. That will bring all the bottom callers out of the woodwork except that distressed sales and multi-units will be 60% of the market 7 out of 12 months next year.
The biggest story of 2011 will be the end of the drama. As the economy improves, the stock market rebounds and confidence returns, buyers will slowly but surely come back to the market. They will be met by banks with plenty of supply of foreclosed homes. It’s not unusual for a market that has experinced such a bubble to find an equillibrium and sit. Residential real estate is dead money for probably 3 to 5 years minimum.
PermaBear will receive at least a dozen “notices of violation” of the condo rules from the retirees who have monopolized the condo board and pay several hundred dollars in fines. Why didn’t you guys warn me about the communistic style of nice condo buildings? How was I supposed to know it was against the rules to toss my trash off the balcony? I intended to pick it up when I went downstairs the next morning and it was too big to fit it all in the elevator in one trip.
“It’s not unusual for a market that has experinced such a bubble to find an equillibrium and sit.”
Actually it is unusual. What is usual is that as a bubble is deflating the asset class plunges to depths that otherwise would not occur due to the excess supply of the underlying goods of the bubble.
“Lastly, now that the “last resident” has moved out, the total redevelopment of Cabrini might be a big story.”
Yeah because the current Cabrini condos seem to be selling like hotcakes, right?
“Gary, are you talking real dollars?”
Well, I was thinking nominal dollars as I wrote that but with really low inflation in the near term I don’t think it will make that much difference.
“Renters do benefit from their LL’s ability to deduct mort int as an operating expense.”
Even if they eliminate the mortgage interest deduction it should not effect landlords. You have to allow “business people” to deduct their business expenses. However, because of this disparity, if they eliminate the mortgage interest deduction renting will be even more desirable than it is now.
BTW, I would love to see them eliminate the mortgage interest deduction entirely, though that’s not on the table.
“I would love to see them eliminate the mortgage interest deduction entirely, though that’s not on the table.”
I think it might be possible if it were phased in over a period of years. IIRC the UK eliminated it gradually between 1988 – 2000.
Unfortunately the only proposals I’m currently seeing will cap it at 500k of mortgage debt. Certainly not ideal and only really punishing the higher end.
It needs to be eliminated for everyone to make the housing market and affordability a more level playing field and not one that can be gamed due to one’s tax bracket.
The problem is that the economy won’t really improve in the next few years. The state and local debt and pension issues are finally coming to the forefront and layoffs are inevitable. The federal government won’t be bailing anyone out. No way the house red house is going to vote to bail out a blue state like IL (although the state is considerably more red now!). A lot government employees, at least ones I’ve seen, live close to the financial edge so to speak, because they, more so than other industries, believe that their job is secure and their savings plan is their pension. So a reduction in income and/or job loss which result in some serious financial difficulties for a lot of people. Which leads to more debt default. etc.
The process of the asset class deflating is about over. The next few years will see little if any appreciation but the worst is behind us. Look at the tech bubble of the 90’s. The stock market collapsed in 2000 and 10 years later we haven’t moved much from that level. Japanese real estate is another example. We will not see swings in real estate prices like we saw in the past bubble for a long long time.
Incorrect ltcaffey. The government never got extensively involved in supporting equity valuations when the stock market tanked. Additionally equities are far more liquid of a market than real estate which tends to be sticky.
The RE asset class deflation is going to take years and is still playing out. Had the government not gotten extensively involved we’d be much closer to a true bottom and recovery but a bottom was never allowed to be found via the tax credit gimmick and FHA loans.
1) Will da new mayer be pro-residential or anti-residential in terms of policy/taxation?
2) how high will mortgage rates go?
3) will prices stabilize in “dollars” in the green zone? (not real ones, computer generated ones)
3a) How much further can non-desireable places to live go down?
I’d personally like to see a flat tax of about 8% across the board, with all deductions and loopholes eliminated. This would drastically simplify tax collection and steeply reduced the costs involved
Laura – While I agree in principle about a simple flat tax concept I suspect that it would need to be much higher than 8%. In addition the concept would force more dollars to be exchanged into a hidden cash economy like so many third world countries. I truly love the idea but wonder about the execution of such a simple plan.
Bob – I am quite interested in your thoughts on the ability to execute a flat tax system.
The government never got extensively involved in supporting equities? I guess the key word is extensively. Agree w much of what you say but if gdp returns to 3% growth or so real estate is done going down. Prices one year from now will be substantially unchanged from where they are now.
“Well, I was thinking nominal dollars as I wrote that but with really low inflation in the near term I don’t think it will make that much difference.”
So you will only call a bottom in real housing costs for the near term?
1.) More buyers strategically default w/o any remorse, as it should be (a contract is NOT a moral obligation);
2.) Obama tells Fannie and Freddie to start writing down principal, screwing cash buyers and all those current on mortgages, but designed to help redistribute wealth;
3.) A McCrap Box, built by a now-defunct company in 2006 collapses, causing homeowner’s insurance premiums to skyrocket and banks to refuse financing 2/2’s in LP.
1) Will RAHM be pro-residential or anti-residential in terms of policy/taxation? – pro-residential
2) how high will mortgage rates go? Slightly higher and then they’ll fall again and will generally stay low.
3) will prices stabilize in “dollars” in the green zone? (not real ones, computer generated ones) NO, expect another 20-30% price declines between now and 2014
3a) How much further can non-desireable places to live go down? A lot, as the HAMP modifications redefault and a majority of the residents are unable to obtain loans due to bad credic.
“So you will only call a bottom in real housing costs for the near term?”
At least he is making a call.
Wow HD another 20-30% down from here even in ponzi QE(2+) dollars?
With inflation currently at 3% y/y, hundreds of billions of “easing” and trillions of dollars of deficit spending I just don’t see that happening. The government would rather trash the value of the dollar by another 20-30% than let real estate values contiue to go that low
“At least he is making a call.”
I’ll stick with my winner, and your loser, JMM: sub 120 on the CS SA index for Chicago.
The rest I’ll save for the paying customers.
can rahm even be mayor? I thought there were residency requirements that he doesn’t seem to meet
You are correct sonies
Flat tax? You already must be very wealthy, can you please find another way to hit the middle class with a bat?
Thanks,
-The middle class
“can rahm even be mayor”
He can and he will.
1) IL and Chi economy will do in 2011 will tell us how the re market will recover/ornot
2) How long and in what manner will banks release their inventory
3) How much will the condo market tank
4) b/c of …hard mortgages, rising interest rates, falling housing prices… do rents rise
5 i will say that Chi CS-SFH will be within 5% of 120
the condos are another story
the QE is really just buying government debt that recapitalizes bank’s balance sheets. The money just sits there.
The QE money needs to get into the hands of my profligate clients before you’ll see any real inflation. They’ll be bidding against you for that flat screen TV at best buy, or the dozen eggs, and they’ll pay a slightly higher price than you for the last Honda Civic on the lot. Too much money chasing too few goods. And right now, there is too little money chasing those goods.
Now, with credit card lines cut, 25% of the population have FICO scores in the 500’s, limited access to HELOCs, no wage inflation, and extreme difficultly for moderate to bad credit risks to get mortgages; and the jumbo market is dead, which floated a lot of money out into the economy – it’s going to be a long time before prices start to rise, and they’ll continue falling until my spendthrift clients can afford a their homes on a single income without going into foreclosure. btw my clients don’t live in ELP.
“Sonies on December 22nd, 2010 at 9:50 am
Wow HD another 20-30% down from here even in ponzi QE(2+) dollars?
With inflation currently at 3% y/y, hundreds of billions of “easing” and trillions of dollars of deficit spending I just don’t see that happening. The government would rather trash the value of the dollar by another 20-30% than let real estate values contiue to go that low”
I believe the bottom will come in 2012. 2011 will be brutal, but not compared to 2007-2008 in percentage terms.
using your deadbeat clientele as an example of deflation is a pretty bad one… those idiots will never have money to spend and will always be debt slaves because they have no self control.
I’m curious as to the spending habits of people that pay their bills on time and don’t rack up tens of thousands of credit card debt to get their hair and their nails done or pay $1200 for a PS3 from rent-a-center
if there is no inflation why does the CPI and BPP say different?
http://bpp.mit.edu/daily-price-indexes/?country=USA
The only thing deflating right now is real estate prices, EVERYTHING else like food, gas, healthcare, education, clothing, and transportation is inflating. Its only a matter of time as peoples balance sheets get better (which by the way they are, and I would provide a link to such but don’t want to get moderated)
“So you will only call a bottom in real housing costs for the near term?”
I didn’t say that. I just said that inflation will be low in the near term. Actually, I do believe that real housing costs will bottom early next year and that will remain a bottom for some time.
“sub 120 on the CS SA index for Chicago.”
You’re nowhere near the bear that I thought you were. You’re a mere 2.1% from being right. We could easily decline another 2.1% from the September release.
Rahm will be mayor.
“#a-fed on December 22nd, 2010 at 9:57 am
“can rahm even be mayor”
He can and he will.”
Oh they had plenty of money, it was other people’s money. And they spent every penny of it, driving up the cost of everything.
Commodities are rising because money is plowing into that asset class, and it will crash again just like it did in 2008. 157$ a barrel for oil only to crash a few months later? It has all happened before and it will all happen again.
Don’t forget, debt is money. Whether or not debt is repaid is another issue.
“those idiots will never have money to spend and will always be debt slaves because they have no self control.”
“I’d personally like to see a flat tax of about 8%”
AHAHAHAHAHA! So, what $1.7T (yes, trillion, yes, 50% of the total) are you cutting from the budget? Eliminating medicare, medicaid and the entire defense budget isn’t enough. And that assumes that (1) social security is funded solely from SS taxes and (2) we default on all of the bonds held by SS.
“Renters do benefit from their LL’s ability to deduct mort int as an operating expense.”
THAT deduction isn’t going to be eliminated, or limited in *any* fashion. Interest was, is and will continue to be deductible as a business expense, if the loan proceeds were used to obtain a business asset.
One of the most important commponents of inflation besides real estate which is not inflating is wages.
My prediction: A lot more information will come out about robo-foreclosure fraud and the improper securitization of mortgages by banks. Wikileaks will release internal documents from a MAJOR bank detailing corporate malfeasance on a scale unimagined. MERS will become an acronym known be most everyone, as Congress attempts to retroactively bless all of their shady shyte.
The volume of negative news will be coincident with the springtime release of massive numbers of additional homes for sale. It’s going to a tough tough year.
Perhaps all the deadbeats who haven’t paid their mortgage in 472-ish days will finanly get foreclosed upon? Green zone or not.
Once the extend and pretend phase ends, I think many will be surprised by how low prices will sink (even in good neighborhoods) at the margin.
AND access to credit. Wages were stagnant yet access to credit was greatly expanded from 1999-2008. If profligate #1 can borrow $500,000 to buy a house – he puts $500k minus his current mortgage payoff into hands of profligate #2 who will turn around and spend it on $12,000 vacations to Hawaii, a BMW 325i, expensive x-mas gifts for his entire extended family, a new TV/surround sound, $13,000 in new furniture, down payments on other terrible real estate investments, etc, until it’s all gone. Profligate #1 after two years will turn his $500k mortgage into a $650k mortgage when he takes out a Countrywide or WaMu second mortgage for $150k and spends said money just like profligate #2.
That stream of money has dried up, and it’s no longer there chasing goods.
Healthcare is largely funded by medicare, medicare, and just like tuition, that’s why prices have been rising.
“#ltcaffey on December 22nd, 2010 at 10:25 am
One of the most important commponents of inflation besides real estate which is not inflating is wages.”
Nobody really knows what’s in the B of A wikileaks documents. I’ve heard it might just be stuff we all know happens, like B of A duping customers, mispricing financial instaments, typical stealing, etc. Stuff that I would lose my law license over, but, gives ibankers large bonuses.
It might be collusion among other banks to cheat customers, it might be who is using the private jet for trips to Cancun, it might be securities fraud on a massive scale – wikileaks said it’s unethical behavior, and unethical and illegal are two separate things. Everybody is waiting, especially B of A.
It’s pretty funny how B of A says ‘oh there’s nothing there’, sort of calling Wikileak’s bluff; which is completely ridiculous, when they just had the biggest dump of classified information ever on the US Government.
We’ll all just have to wait.
“You’re nowhere near the bear that I thought you were. You’re a mere 2.1% from being right. We could easily decline another 2.1% from the September release.”
Gary, I was just taking the under on JMM’s bottom call. It will be as easy a win as last year’s call of a new CS SA bottom when you declared for months that CS had bottomed.
“THAT deduction isn’t going to be eliminated, or limited in *any* fashion. Interest was, is and will continue to be deductible as a business expense, if the loan proceeds were used to obtain a business asset.”
No argument from me. I was just pointing out to Laura that renters are currently benefiting.
Top prediction: People will still debate the housing market ad-nauseum on television, in the papers, and on this blog.
“It’s pretty funny how B of A says ‘oh there’s nothing there’, sort of calling Wikileak’s bluff; which is completely ridiculous, when they just had the biggest dump of classified information ever on the US Government. ”
Um, what *exactly* was in the Wikileaks USG dump that would constitute “something”?
Aside from names of foreign nationals assisting the US and unflattering assessments of various diplomats, which, in the context, does not constitute “something” except w/r/t the particular individuals involved–that is, if the same stuff comes out of BofA, some people might lose their jobs (for being insulting about their boss, for example), but there won’t be anything shocking and no discernible pattern of misdeeds.
“I was just taking the under on JMM’s bottom call. It will be as easy a win as last year’s call of a new CS SA bottom when you declared for months that CS had bottomed.”
So, then what is your prediction for the bottom exactly?
“No argument from me. I was just pointing out to Laura that renters are currently benefiting.”
Just clarifying your rhetorical point in the context of the discussion.
What effect will pension reform have on property taxes? And will that hit next year or will it be phased in over time?
Flat tax? You already must be very wealthy, can you please find another way to hit the middle class with a bat?
Thanks,
-The middle class
Why are you already convinced that a flat tax system would be a bigger burden on the middle class? FYI you listen to closely to the liberal media if you believe that our current tax system is rewarding the middle class. With the lower middle and lower class paying ZERO tax and the uber wealthy hiring tax attorneys to shelter taxable income a bigger share is coming out of the middle class than anywhere else.
Regarding the most recent Wikileaks dump, we have only seen less than 3000 of the 250,000 documents total.
Regarding Rahm, I’m resigned (but not happy) that he will be the next mayor. There is simply no one else reasonable who has stepped up to the plate. My major fear with Rahm is the continued sell off of City owned property. We caught a short break when the Midway deal got botched (I think the city actually collected money as a penalty). But Midway (and a whole bunch of other public assets) will go on the auction block.
My biggest fear is for the crown jewels of the City, which is its water supply. We must insist that all mayoral candidates come out and clearly state their position on our water.
Chico will be the next mayor, as nobody in Chicago really likes Rahm Emanuel anyway. The biggest story of 2011 will be: “Shadow inventory of foreclosures hitting the market”.
“My biggest fear is for the crown jewels of the City, which is its water supply. We must insist that all mayoral candidates come out and clearly state their position on our water.”
+1million
“So, then what is your prediction for the bottom exactly?”
That it won’t be here in 2011.
“Why are you already convinced that a flat tax system would be a bigger burden on the middle class?”
It all should be scaled. If you pay a million dolalrs for you home you should pay taxes like its worth a million dollars. If you live in a cardboard box, you shouldn’t pay anything because your cardboard box isn’t worth anything.
Flat taxes only benefit the wealthy.
Off topic: just like extending the income tax break for the wealthy…I heard someone rich say something funny the other day (disturbing if you will) that if they had to pay more than 45% in taxes they would work less…ahh, American Greed and Laziness
Interesting fact about Rahm from Wikipedia:
“Emanuel was named to the Board of Directors of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) by President Bill Clinton in 2000. His position earned him at least $320,000, including later stock sales. He was not assigned to any of the board’s working committees, and the Board met no more than six times per year.
During his time on the board, Freddie Mac was plagued with scandals involving campaign contributions and accounting irregularities. The Obama Administration rejected a request under the Freedom of Information Act to review Freddie Mac board minutes and correspondence during Emanuel’s time as a director.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) later accused the board of having “failed in its duty to follow up on matters brought to its attention.” Emanuel resigned from the board in 2001 when he ran for Congress.”
“Chico will be the next mayor, as nobody in Chicago really likes Rahm Emanuel anyway.”
I thought one of the complaints about Rahm was that he’s too tied into the Daley machine. Chico’s got the same problem; doubt he finishes second to get to the runoff.
Afed
…..It all should be scaled. If you pay a million dolalrs for you home you should pay taxes like its worth a million dollars. If you live in a cardboard box, you shouldn’t pay anything because your cardboard box isn’t worth anything…..
It already is have you heard of property taxes? They are higher on more expensive properties.
“…I heard someone rich say something funny the other day (disturbing if you will) that if they had to pay more than 45% in taxes they would work less…ahh, American Greed and Laziness…..”
That is ironic. Your basis of thought is that there should not be a flat tax and that the rich should pick up a higher share of taxes just because they can afford it. The ridiculous part of your theory is that it is also based on greed and laziness. It suggests that those in the middle class are greedy and think that they believe that the IRS should push more tax burden on those who are typically harder working business owners or successful employees. That is the definition of either entitlement or “greed and laziness!”
Rahm has the lead right now. There is simply no viable candidate among the rest of the sorry bunch of hacks running for the office. That’s why Rahm won’t debate; I don’t blame him, I wouldn’t want to be in the same room as those hacks either.
Rahm wont debate because he is not the debating type. He is Rhambo. He tells people what to do and say. There is a strong risk that he might show his true colors on the debate stage. I was very impressed that he was able to keep it together when they were doing the silly election residency hearing show last week.
The tip there was that they were not willing to take a “field trip” to the home to see if his personal belongings were indeed in the basement. Not sure if that was material to the outcome but the excuse of how a half day field trip would delay the proceedings too much was ludicrous. It shows what we all think. That commission will let him run. The courts would have to interpet otherwise. If somehow he was kept off the ballot he will be back in four years and likely win.
Why delay the inevitable….
“The tip there was that they were not willing to take a “field trip” to the home to see if his personal belongings were indeed in the basement. ”
Really? You really think that Rahm was lying about a demonstrable fact easily proven with a small amount of effort? A lie that would have *no* plausible deniability?
If one wants to get conspiracy oriented, it would be better to focus on Odelson allowing (basically) the whole thing to turn on whether or not there is actually personal property in the basement. Making such a big deal about that is ludicrous–especially after someone else supported Rahm’s testimony.
Really? You really think that Rahm was lying about a demonstrable fact easily proven with a small amount of effort? A lie that would have *no* plausible deniability?
Yes Rahmbo has been a risk taker all his life. He also knows that his cronies are in control of the commission and that they would not push the issue and demand to see the stuff. That was pre-arranged. Had they pressed I suspect that his response would have been that they mistakenly got moved by someone else after the fact and he was not made aware of the change. Rhambo is a manipulator pure and simple. Most Democrats or Republicans in those jobs are very skilled at manipulating the truth.
There are very few politicians that can be trusted.
“It all should be scaled. If you pay a million dolalrs for you home you should pay taxes like its worth a million dollars. If you live in a cardboard box, you shouldn’t pay anything because your cardboard box isn’t worth anything.
Flat taxes only benefit the wealthy.”
You are an idiot and I’m not convinced I should point out your errant logic. Okay I’ll bite: a flat tax on things, including things like real estate, means exactly that the owners of a million dollar home pay more than those who live in a cardboard box. It even means they pay more than those who live in a 200k house–5 times more, to be precise.
Your positions seem to be parroted by the mainstream media and have no basis in reality that flat taxes only benefit the wealthy.
“There is simply no viable candidate among the rest of the sorry bunch of hacks running for the office.”
I liked how Meeks is on record saying the affirmative action quotas for minority business owners should only go to blacks, not any other group. LOL what a tool and he’s going nowhere.
“He also knows that his cronies are in control of the commission and that they would not push the issue and demand to see the stuff. ”
Are his cronies also in control of the courts? Because this has a reasonable likelihood of making it to the IL SCt.
And, being unaware that someone moved your families most prized possessions is a very bad fact, when the leaving behind is basically your strongest good fact. It wasn’t a very elegant trap, but it seems that everyone has fallen for it.
”
say something funny the other day (disturbing if you will) that if they had to pay more than 45% in taxes they would work less…ahh, American Greed and Laziness
”
thats fine more $$/jobs for the hard working middle class (broaden the tax base, through work/income gains rather than regressive tax increases)
tax capital gains like ordinary income
income taxes should be progressive to counter act all the regressive taxes.
“Chico will be the next mayor, as nobody in Chicago really likes Rahm Emanuel anyway.”
I thought one of the complaints about Rahm was that he’s too tied into the Daley machine. Chico’s got the same problem; doubt he finishes second to get to the runoff.”
Chico “tried” to seperate himself from daley, but like all chi poli’s they are all the same. just look at chico’s law firm or his wifes “business”, its just more of the same. you will ge the same with rahmfather and get another stroger with carol, hey at least meeks is open about his “crazy azz” thoughts in his head and probably the most transparent than anyone on the ballot. but man if he could just keep his mouth closed.
we all should just do a write in vote for daley and “make” him deal with the shyte he is pushing down the road.
would be nice if the mayoral candidates took positions on real issues rather than pandering/distractions
Rahm’s noted possessions were in crawl-space after all; tenants apparently didn’t check that area, but Rahm’s attorney was able to access basement and take photos for proof last week. Recent poll noted that Rahm had support of about 1/3 of voters already; source was WBEZ and/or Trib report last week.
Chico is a longtime Daley lackey feasting at the public dollar trough, and has sold his “insider access” consultant services for years. First Trib article surfaced today, expect more. Chico is unlikely to survive campaign against Rahm: he’s not smart enough, he’s too tainted himself, and he doesn’t dance fast enough.
Big news stories of 2011? How about RE tax defaults and related collections shortfall’s impact on municipal budgets and services? How about rising occurrence of multi-generational extended-family living arrangements as families combine households to pay housing costs? How about significant increase in housing vacancy rate due to foreclosures, affordability disconnect, and relative decrease in householder population?
Sorry Bob but actually you are being the idiot here and I hate calling people names but since you did it first, I guess it is fair game : )
What you fail to realize is that poor folks have less money than wealthy ones. Poor people still need to live: buy food, pay for electricity, pay for medical bills, taxes, etc… Because they make less money to start with, a greater percentage of their income goes towards those necessities. So say at 10% flat rate, someone with 20K income, will pay 2K, having to make do with 18K. Someone with 2M income will have 1.8M to live with which is still ample. In other words, if the poor are paying the same as the rich, the hit being taken by them is still much greater then it is for the wealthy. In all progressive tax systems, poeple are taxed based on their earnings falling into a certain range.
“In other words, if the poor are paying the same as the rich, the hit being taken by them is still much greater then it is for the wealthy”
Do the rich get an extra benefit for their 200k in income taxes? For instance are they protected at 100x the rate via our military? Do our ICBM’s offer them 100x the protection?
What about our national parks? Do they get to visit 100x the national parks?
Also do the rich tax our government services at the same rate as the poor?
You, miumiu, are the idiot. You also would prefer government bureaucrats to make value judgments such as our progressive taxation system because you believe or are ignorant that the complexity of the system allows it to be gamed easily. Do you even know what a deadweight loss is and how much tax revenue is lost due to non-compliance?
“Also do the rich tax our government services at the same rate as the poor?”
I thought that you viewed the rich as the primary beneficiaries of the Bank bailout and cheap money? Haven’t “we” given “the rich” about $5T over the past decade–just given it to them?
The Samuel Zell-run Tribune should be solidly in Rahm’s corner. Has anyone noticed the intense effort Jay Levine is using to support his fellow tribesman? talk about racism in Chicago!! If Chico can hold on, weather the attacks, he might win, because at the voting booth nobody has any reason to pull the lever for Rahm Emanuel, he’s a polarizing figure that nobody has anything positive to say anything about. Blacks don’t want him, Hispanics, don’t either. Jew will of course support him, that leaves basically the white lemmings who will be brainwashed by the machinations of the Trib, news producers sympathetic to the Jay Levine point-of-view etc.
“First Trib article surfaced today, expect more. Chico is unlikely to survive campaign against Rahm: he’s not smart enough, he’s too tainted himself, and he doesn’t dance fast enough.”
Where’s Park Ridge?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/219-Meacham-Ave-60068/home/13648916
Check this out: Short sale near the 2001 purchase price and walking distance from the Metra.
2011 is going to be 2001 prices and better. That’s the top story.
Park Ridge has got to wait a few years for me due to commuting issues for the SO – but that will change in a few years, hopefully.
Nice. Homophobic, racist and sexist (sometimes mysoginistic) comments are routine from a few regulars on here. And today we’re host to some anti-Semitism.
Dan – you seem to imply that non-lemmings want Chico to win.
you might have missed the Highland Park threads; a few distinct CCer’s have covered it all
“Nice. Homophobic, racist and sexist (sometimes mysoginistic) comments are routine from a few regulars on here. And today we’re host to some anti-Semitism.”
Rahm is the guy precisely because he’s not any of the other candidates. I watched a few minutes of the CTU debates and it was a joke, they may as well have put Kwame Kilpatrick up there for his point of view. It was the sorriest bunch of losers and hacks I’ve ever seen. The city has progressed forward as much as it can, now we’re at the point of trying to prevent regression. We don’t want to return to the Chicago of the 1970’s or else I might buy that house in Park Ridge sooner rather than later. Rahm seems like the only guy who can maintain the status quo and prevent the city from getting worse.
Don’t count me in that group of regulars.
“anonny on December 22nd, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Nice. Homophobic, racist and sexist (sometimes mysoginistic) comments are routine from a few regulars on here. And today we’re host to some anti-Semitism.”
“
annony, when someone can’t win an argument or cannot refute facts, they play a “card”. Please stop playing cards because you are unwilling analyze facts. Meeks is supported by blacks. Rahm is supported by Jews. Chico will be supported by Hispanics. There are simple uncontroversial facts. White voters will either given Rahm the election or not. I believe most to be lemmings, who will be influence by Trib op-eds, and people like Jay Levine and his news producers. That’s cold hard reasoning.
“And today we’re host to some anti-Semitism.”
are you saying that Jay Levine and rahm aren’t jews?
I don’t think any lemming is voting on what Jay Levine thinks.
I think Tom Dart would have been our next mayor. But he received a phone call that said, “you can be sheriff for life if you want, just don’t run.”
Meeks, Chico, Braun, or any of the other 16 people running, other than Rahm, are a bunch of Hacks. Jesse Jr and Dart were the only two other viable candidates and they were knocked out. Nobody is bothering trying to knock out Chico. He’s just a goof/
Rahm isn’t a hack? The guy probably can’t even find the men’s rooms in the City Hall building because he’s never even spent time there. Define hack.
“Nice. Homophobic, racist and sexist (sometimes mysoginistic) comments are routine from a few regulars on here. And today we’re host to some anti-Semitism.”
Obviously our attempts aren’t enough to drive you away, anonny. Is it that we aren’t trying hard enough?
“because at the voting booth nobody has any reason to pull the lever for Rahm Emanuel, he’s a polarizing figure that nobody has anything positive to say anything about. Blacks don’t want him, Hispanics, don’t either. Jew will of course support him, that leaves basically the white lemmings who will be brainwashed by the machinations of the Trib, news producers sympathetic to the Jay Levine point-of-view etc. ”
Yup. Don’t count out the idiot lakefront liberals. The same whites who can’t seem to connect the dots between their voting habits and why they can’t raise a family in the city limits on middle class wages. I detest these people.
If you know your way around city hall doesn’t that make you an insider? The only floor that matters is 5.
What other viable candidate is there? They’re all sleezy but Rahm seems the least likely to be caught smoking crack in a hotel room or caught sexting his staff members. Think Marion and Kwame who are the two most recent large city mayors that were embarassments.
Hell, take it to the next level. Rod was a complete hack. I’d take Rahm over Rod any day for governer.
At the debates, Villarosa was blasting Rahm for immigration policies i.e. failing to change it; Braun was blasting Chico for failing schools; Meeks = clayton davis from the wire.
ENough abou tthis, I got sheeeeeeeeeeeet i gotta do today.
aka the SWPL whites….Chicago is full of them. They also can’t seem to figure out why they’re the ones riding bicycles, while the Chinese are now driving cars.
“Yup. Don’t count out the idiot lakefront liberals. The same whites who can’t seem to connect the dots between their voting habits and why they can’t raise a family in the city limits on middle class wages. I detest these people.”
“Chico will be supported by Hispanics”
doode he isnt he still fighting for that “backing” at one point miguel had more of that vote than him. I think that him living in sauganash doesnt real translate to the latin/hispanic vote?
“Hell, take it to the next level. Rod was a complete hack. I’d take Rahm over Rod any day for governer.”
i would take Rod over rahmfather 6 days of the week. but thats me.
Tom Dart didn’t have the support or name recognition yet, but his time is coming. It’s just a matter of what office next and likely it’ll be DC as he’d be wasting years waiting for a run at mayor.
“Meeks is supported by blacks. Rahm is supported by Jews. Chico will be supported by Hispanics. There are simple uncontroversial facts. White voters will either given Rahm the election or not. I believe most to be lemmings, who will be influence by Trib op-eds, and people like Jay Levine and his news producers. That’s cold hard reasoning.”
First, I know Jews who dislike Rahm and who don’t plan to vote for him. Second, as for all the non-Jewish white folks (or “lemmings,” as Dan calls them), do you not have any further ethnic or religious break-downs to share with us? Or do all non-Jewish white folks vote alike? Lastly, to the extent that voters – specifically, non-Jewish white voters, as you contend – are persuaded by the efforts of a local newspaper, do you really think that it’s the Trib?
annony, in all elections nationwide, blacks and Jews vote with the most cohesion, Hispanics with remarkable (but slightly less) cohesion also, and it’s always whites that split up their vote. I’d be surprised if Rahm doesn’t get at least 95% of the Jews’ votes. I’m just giving my opinion….but I believe since Rahm was connected with Clinton the SWPL/gay/yuppie whites that make up the vast majority of Chicago’s white population will vote in his direction, sadly. The union types might also. Whoever is the black candidate will likely get over 90% of the black vote, who’d argue with that?
What’s the alternative Dan?
Are you running for Mayor?
I’d have to run on a Chris Christie platform to be honest with myself and everyone in Chicago….and that isn’t going to fly here, we all know that.
Wow Dan, so you consider the Jewish,/gay/yuppie white/union voting public to be a monolith. That’s some serious political science you’ve got going there. I gather that you’re non-Jewish, white, straight, at least middle aged, non-professional, and not a member of a union. Into what group, pray tell, would you place yourself?
Oh and do you realize that how popular Chico is with the so-called gay community in Chicago?
The day of reckoning is coming Dan, we won’t need Chris Christie to tell it to us when it all starts to fall apart.
The city turned into a craphole once before aka 1960’s – 1990’s. Elect Kwame or Marion and it will return.
Maybe you’re of the opinion that Rahm is the next Kwame or that he will let the city slide; but then again, who knows. It’s not like I’m going to sit back idly and not vote
“#Dan on December 22nd, 2010 at 2:52 pm
I’d have to run on a Chris Christie platform to be honest with myself and everyone in Chicago….and that isn’t going to fly here, we all know that.”
“Maybe you’re of the opinion that Rahm …”
Dude, anyone who needs to speculate on Dan’s issue with Rahm simply missed the Highland Park thread vassel referenced above (don’t bother looking, Bri deleted it all). And it isn’t because he thinks Rahm is Kwame K-level corrupt.
Chico may be (actually, almost certainly is) superficially the least objectionable alternative, but he’s at least hip deep in the muck of the machine and their friends–ain’t no other way to make $2+mm doing city/county/state lobbying work. And I, for one, can get past that issue.
I’m not a Carol Mosely Braun fan but I saw an interview the other day and her two issues were threatening the firm that robbed us on the parking meter deal w no more city business unless they renegotiate, and stopping the fire department from sending a hook and ladder w every ambulence that goes out. She definately got my attention.
So we can agree that the mayoral story is the biggest story for 2011
(I win)
“That’s some serious political science you’ve got going there. I gather that you’re non-Jewish, white, straight, at least middle aged, non-professional, and not a member of a union. Into what group, pray tell, would you place yourself?”
The SWPL calls us “the wrong kind of white people”. Basically those that are unapologetic of who we are, our success, and not really conforming to the groupthink of the SWPL’s, especially with regard to knowing whats best for others and harboring guilt.
Annony – you don’t know much about voting and polling. The only two places that racial and ethic stereotypes are part of the business plan are insurance and polling.
“her two issues were threatening the firm that robbed us on the parking meter deal w no more city business unless they renegotiate”
And they say “yeah, sure, whatever”. Any other way they’re going to make over $1B over 75 years from city work? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
“and stopping the fire department from sending a hook and ladder w every ambulence that goes out”
Good idea, but … that’s her 2d biggest idea? Really? Was third place, help her Nigerian friends get whats rightfully theirs by sharing the City’s bank account numbers?
OMG!!!!
“Good idea, but … that’s her 2d biggest idea? Really? Was third place, help her Nigerian friends get whats rightfully theirs by sharing the City’s bank account numbers?”
“The city turned into a craphole once before aka 1960’s – 1990’s. Elect Kwame or Marion and it will return. ”
Can’t really compare Kwame to Barry. Both are incompetent but one wound up in jail for serious corruption. Smoking rocks isn’t nearly as big a deal to me. (Plus it could work to your advantage if you’re ever charged with a petty crime, your lawyer can always use the old: he might’ve engaged in what some call disorderly conduct but he didn’t smoke crack!)
I’m not happy with the current state of the city where I can’t raise a family comfortably and reside within the city limits on one or even two incomes. I largely blame the SWPL’s for this, as if they were a unified voting bloc going the other way, things would be much, much better IMO.
I think a mayor that doesn’t look like them that promotes racial inequality like Meeks might actually be a good thing longer-term: it will send the plaid, tight-jeans wearing SWPL recent college grads packing in a trail of tears for Brooklyn. Chicago doesn’t need any more suburban whites moving here who vote Democrat and can’t seem to connect the dots and essentially hate who they are. Chicago needs less of these people.
“so you consider the Jewish,/gay/yuppie white/union voting public to be a monolith. ”
It largely is, if you define the split as 80/20–it absolutely is.
“if they were a unified voting bloc going the other way, things would be much, much better”
Things would be much, much better if they’d voted for who, when? You can’t make up a mythical candidate. Should everyone have voted for Fast Eddie?
And, in what way would Meeks make it more likely you’d be able to raise a family in the city in a neighborhood you’d want to live in?
I’d say in Chicago that’s largely true, because we only get to vote for one-party (kinda like Soviet Russia!). However, if given a choice between a black/minority liberal and a blue-dog white Democrat that’s somewhat conservative, I think the group splinters and the Jews vote for the minority candidate.
“the Jewish,/gay/yuppie white/union voting public to be a monolith”
Right, I see what you are inferring. Why don’t you take it to its logical conclusion?…….and the 95% of the Jewish vote that will vote for Rahm, their issue isn’t racism? how about the blacks that will vote for Meeks over Rahm? I smell some racists, LOL!! How about Hispanics that will vote for Miguel or Chico over a suburban New Trier grad? Can you blame them? Anonny, my issues with Rahm are multi-fold he has no executive experience, has never created a job (that wasn’t paid for by taxpayers), can’t find the men’s rooms at the City Hall building, supports apartheid and Zionist racism, belongs to a political party that has bankrupted the state and city, has been endorsed by Obama, the list is endless…..so far the only reason I’ve seen for voting for Rahm is that he’ll win the jewish vote because he’s Jewish, and he’s the best of the worst.
“Dude, anyone who needs to speculate on Dan’s issue with Rahm….”
My top 3 for 2011 plus a related non-real estate one –
1. Wikileaks will spill the beans on B of A, and also 2 other major financial institutions
2. Chicago GZ condo prices will fall another 10-15% in 2011
3. the Feds will have another home buying tax credit
4. Wikileaks will announce who killed JFK, which will shock the world
“Right, I see what you are inferring.”
I wasn’t inferring anything.
4. ummm its pretty obvious Elvis had Aliens kill JFK, where the hell have you been
“I’m not happy with the current state of the city where I can’t raise a family comfortably and reside within the city limits on one or even two incomes. I largely blame the SWPL’s for this. . .”
Blame them for what, the high cost of RE? Your income? Both?
I’m pretty happy with raising a family within the city limits, as are many families I know.
Who should I blame if my Chicago home isn’t 5,000 sq ft? On the national level, I suppose it’s the liberal block of Congress and Presidents Clinton and Obama who I have to blame for my not owning vacation homes in Aspen and Maui.
anon(tfo) what does this mean? I need to speculate because you aren’t clear….out with it.
“Dude, anyone who needs to speculate on Dan’s issue with Rahm simply missed the Highland Park thread vassel referenced above”
Dan,
Rahm is the best of the worst.
Big cities never have and never will be some utopia with business minded candidates who have executive experience and there is the right mix of equality and racial tension.
The alternative to to move to DuPage County and enjoy that bastion of republican goodness.
You kind of have to move past the politics to live here. And quite frankly, unless we have Kwame as mayor, on a daily basis, it really makes no difference who the mayor is. The machine just sort of runs itself and various people at various times get to stand in front of the machine hoping to god they don’t get distracted and end up steamrolled.
That’s really well put, Bob. The next group of mental insane whites to analyze is the pro-Madigan/Cullterton/Democrat crowd!! They’re happy IL is losing a US House seat so they gerrymander against their own people, the Red part of the state.
“I’m not happy with the current state of the city where I can’t raise a family comfortably and reside within the city limits on one or even two incomes. I largely blame the SWPL’s for this, as if they were a unified voting bloc going the other way, things would be much, much better IMO.
I think a mayor that doesn’t look like them that promotes racial inequality like Meeks might actually be a good thing longer-term: it will send the plaid, tight-jeans wearing SWPL recent college grads packing in a trail of tears for Brooklyn. Chicago doesn’t need any more suburban whites moving here who vote Democrat and can’t seem to connect the dots and essentially hate who they are. Chicago needs less of these people.”
“Things would be much, much better if they’d voted for who, when? You can’t make up a mythical candidate. Should everyone have voted for Fast Eddie?
And, in what way would Meeks make it more likely you’d be able to raise a family in the city in a neighborhood you’d want to live in?”
In my district? Ratowitz.
And no Meeks would not improve the city one bit. But neither will Rahm. And with Meeks at least the SWPL’s will get a dose of where the rubber hits the road in terms of their strong cohesion with the D party and simplistic dichotomy in life of D = good guys, R = bad guys. Trail of tears to Brooklyn (even though they keep threatening to move to Europe/Canada) and I’d have the popcorn at the ready.
2011 predictions:
1. Fiscal insolvency for municipalities will lead to fed QE bailout as the buyer of last resort.
2. Wikileaks results in no indictments, only an internet crackdown, and resultant constraints on freedom of speech
I know of a number of short sellers that are getting out of the market due to their insight of short sales being stopped by lenders after the 1 qtr. 2011. Too much fraud and loss to the lenders.
You can look back on this and know that you saw it here first!
I really don’t see how ANYONE really benefits from the real estate mortgage interest deduction.
Even for those who “benefit”, it is paying $1 to get back .25, a bad trade.
All it really accomplishes is to induce buyers to assume more debt and thus inflate real estate prices. It is really just a subsidy for home builders and lenders.
The buyer ends up paying more than he should have paid and borrowing more and paying more interest, while tax dollars are diverted from public purposes, thus driving up the deficit and/or necessitating tax increases.
Housing subsidies of all sorts, from interest deductions to housing projects to FHA to government backing for “private” mortgage buyers like Fannie and Freddie, have destroyed the housing market in this country, resulting in a debt-strapped population and a poor population as badly housed as ever. It has been a lose-lose proposition for the general public, but a huge win for the housing related industries who are the true beneficiaries.
“Bob, I’m surprised you even stick it out, not having been born here. ”
I am rolling off my current project soon and have a friend who is constantly encouraging me to join him in the south. Bob might not be able to stick it out much longer (more of a $ issue than the culture issue, I like Chicago but I am a $ nomad).
“where there are some decent looking white women still left, plus some that haven’t been turned into pro-Obama, pro-Oprah, pro-feminist, pro-SexintheCity/homosexual types like most here, while they complain they can’t meet a normal guy.”
There are a few women professionals here that aren’t brainwashed. They are just _very reserved_ as they’ve learned from their collegiate experience not to open up their true opinions on things or else they get dinged by the profs. Typically accountant/engineer types not lawyer types (lawyer types much higher proclivity of liking to argue and being brainwashed by feminist propaganda, there are some good apples here too but lotsa garbage to sift thru).
“The buyer ends up paying more than he should have paid and borrowing more and paying more interest, while tax dollars are diverted from public purposes, thus driving up the deficit and/or necessitating tax increases. ”
Most Americans are not educated enough in economics to take the holistic view as you have done, Laura. Most Americans are only capable of analyzing the direct impact on them and know that lower taxes = good for them.
Homedelete – See you in Park Ridge in a few years. I’ve been in the home you listed and it was just ok. Poor layout. Weird setup and an odd addition for the master bedroom. Here is a true value a few blocks away still within a short walk to the metra. Bet that this sales price pissed off a few neighbors.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/611-Wisner-St-60068/home/13651965
Laura – you are sounding like a flat tax proponent.
I say lets embrace the idea and get rid of all industry subsidies which will in turn just drive up prices of most products to the true market rate. It would be interesting to see what parts of the economy fail immediately. I’d bet that most of those are ones that we can obviously do without. The market will dictate the true needs and reward the winning companies wile it will penalize the losers. Ah not that would be America!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1800-S-Washington-Ave-60068/home/13562615
jp3chicago
I think you linked to the wrong house on the right block on wisnet
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/528-Wisner-St-60068/home/13652827
this sold for $519,000 a few weeks ago.
HD – Yes that was the one. Sorry for the incorrect link. It went from $850+ to $519 in three short years. Ouch! And the upside is that the home was not even stripped out before the sale. It was pretty much move in ready. The finishes were not merchandise mart but the area is nice. There are mature trees, good schools, an easy commute downtown, and high taxes. Overall most parts of P.R. are a pretty decent community. I’ll be there in another year or two.
Jp- I like that house very much. I want to stay in the city for now for my SO’s commuting purposes but eventually ill move out there. Its a no brainer if you want to have a family.
Man this place is a whinefest! Who the hell cares what any of your opinions are about race, sexual identity, politics, etc. Go to a dating site to find partners with your political outlook. Or go to a politics site to bitch about liberals.
But keep that crap out of Cribchatter. I value this place for discussion about the City, neighborhoods, houses, and general living.
“Liberal brainwashing”… Grow up.
If your looking for a better candidate for mayor, may I suggest John Hu, a real estate broker. He seems to be the only person with any type of business experience. Everyone else seems to have a job that feeds from the public trough. And you know he is going to do well within the Asian community so he does have a chance to make it to the runoff.
Groove77 has the only clearly accurate prediction here.
YoChicago will do more interviews next year with happy home buyers at 235 Van Buren. Buyers like this successful young couple, one of whom is a repeat CMK buyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0_7dIs2yg0
And Groove, it’s easy to see why you failed to follow up on your promise to go on camera with me. It leaves you free to make ugly remarks about people you don’t know who appear to be enjoying life more than you are.
Happy holidays to all at CribChatter from YoChicago.
I wish we could draft Paul Vallas or Pat Fitzgerald.
Polls show Rahm significantly ahead. Meeks (I can’t keep my mouth shut) has already eliminated himself, Burt Odelson (I can define a chad) must be kicking himself. Carol Mosley Braun was a one-term senator who impoverished her mother so Medicaid would pay for her nursing home costs. Houlihan did not enter the race, because he and his brother would lose tons of $$$ and contracts. Dart was told to be patient and was probably offered something. Jessie Jackson Jr. did not enter the race due to the back draft from Blago and received an extra kick with an issue with his wife’s notary signatures. Chico’s story was featured in today’s Tribune. Look for more stories, IRS troubles, reasons to leave the mayoral race, in the near future for Rahm’s running mates. Rahm does not need to win over the majority of the voters, as he will eliminate the candidates. Which may be for the best, because what I have read does not make me want to vote for the other candidates.
“YoChicago will do more interviews next year with happy home buyers at 235 Van Buren. Buyers like this successful young couple, one of whom is a repeat CMK buyer:”
So, they doubled down, huh Joe?
Bought in 630 N. Franklin, couldn’t sell it, so rented it out and then bought a bigger more expensive unit in another high rise. Wow. It’s crazy what is going on out there.
Homedelete:
Those Park Ridge houses are interesting. I haven’t looked at that area in about 6 months. It looks like it’s getting worse there (or better- depending on your perspective.) That last house on Wisner sold for over $800k in 2005 and now just sold for $519k.
By the way- many of the posts on Crib Chatter right now are on short sales and foreclosures because those are mainly the only listings coming on the market right now (the banks don’t care about “timing” or “waiting” until after the holidays- obviously.)
Editor’s Note:
Can we talk about something else other than politics? This is not a politics site. I left some of the comments in the thread because the next mayor will have to deal with pension/budget issues which are likely to bleed over into property taxes which will then affect housing.
But if you want to discuss the pros and cons of all the mayoral candidates- I’m sure there are other sites where you can do just that.
It’s far from crazy out here in the real world, Sabrina.
It’s just people living their varied lives as they see best, doing what makes them happy, doing what people who feel good about life do.
“It’s far from crazy out here in the real world, Sabrina.”
Really?
So, buying one condo and then not being able to sell it and then buying another one in a building that is only partially sold is “doing what makes them happy” and “doing what people who feel good about life do”?
Isn’t this what got us into this mess in the first place?
Why double down?
That’s what I don’t get. This couple is young. And now they’re saddled with two illiquid assets that are declining in value.
But this is what I’m seeing out there all the time now. They can’t sell the first condo. So they rent it out, usually at a monthly loss (and hope and pray that prices come “back” in the next few years) or they walk away from it (either short sale or foreclosure- although I’m seeing way more short sales.)
None of these are good solutions. It’s why the housing market will still face significant headwinds for years to come.
Sabrina,
The phrase “double down” is a conclusion that you can only reach if you know more about this couple’s situation than you do.
But then you have to set the proper tone for CribChatter – attitude counts, facts don’t.
This is a very distasteful place, and once again I’ll move on.
“The phrase “double down” is a conclusion that you can only reach if you know more about this couple’s situation than you do.”
I watched the video. They said they owned in 630 N. Franklin. You asked them if they sold it. They said no because the market stinks. But the rental market is still pretty healthy so they rented it out. Then they worked with CMK to get them into their new unit, which they had originally “bought” in pre-construction pricing in 2007.
Why isn’t that doubling down? They could have walked from their deposit at 235 W. Van Buren as many others have done and just lived in their 630 N. Franklin place, right?
But no. Now instead of one unit, they have two.
Joe- if Crib Chatter is so “distasteful” why do you come here?
Oh yeah- because you get paid to do so by developers.
Sabrina,
If you had even the slightest clue about why people buy homes you’d understand why this couple doesn’t perceive their desire to have a larger home that can accommodate the family they plan in the next few years is not “doubling down.” If you insist on calling their behavior gambling, you should at least understand that some people gamble for enjoyment, win or lose.
It’s pretty rich to have my fully-disclosed motives sneered at by someone whose identity and motives are completely unknown.
“this couple perceive their desire to have a larger home that can accommodate the family they plan in the next few years is not “doubling down.””
Isn’t it? I don’t get it. If they knew they were going to have kids, why would you buy in a high rise right next to the Sears Tower with no known grade school? It’s not like CMK is marketing the building as “buy here to raise your child.”
When talking about the nearest grocery stores in the video- they laughed and said that they can walk to the Whole Foods in the south loop about a mile or so away but appeared to concede that even finding a grocery store was somewhat difficult.
The fact is- they don’t have kids right now. You just said they will have a family in a “few years.” So, why not just continue to live in the one condo they own, wait for the market to improve and THEN move? Why the rush to move right now and then own two properties? This is what makes no sense whatsoever. Why would you want to buy another depreciating asset when you don’t HAVE to?
Yes- this is just gambling. It’s doubling down. Too bad the rest of the tax payers are cleaning up this mess when the “gamble” doesn’t work out.
Sigh.
Sabrina, some will watch the video and come away with a different take on the grocery scene than yours.
What kind of arrogant insularity does it take to conclude that your judgment as to what “makes no sense whatsoever” is superior to this couple’s judgment as to how they want to live and what makes sense to them? Do you really think that two highly-educated people need your advice on schooling their future kids? Or on what environment to raise them in?
Do you seriously believe this tripe, or are you just throwing out live bait for the sharks here?
“If you insist on calling their behavior gambling, you should at least understand that some people gamble for enjoyment, win or lose.”
I will give you this, Joey: you’re right, IF there aren’t calls from a large percent of the voting population for another RE bailout via a tax credit. Would you like to take this wager?
Because although we know the thought of another useless bailout/dumps for chumps RE tax credit is DOA for the next two years (which I really hope) do you honestly think that the NAR and sellers won’t be back at the taxpayer trough squealing like pigs in the time 2012-2014 time frame?
Honestly JZ once you’re industry started acting like pigs at the taxpayer trough as evidenced by the multiple tax credits, they open themselves up to a whole ‘nother level of scrutiny. Now they’re wasting my monies as a net taxpayer to push their product. That I take offense to.
Didn’t Joe Zekas recently come here pushing 110 W. Superior? on the “Live In a House in the Sky: 50 E. Chestnut in the Gold Coast” thread? He said on Dec-16:
“Superior 110, one of our clients, has two full floor units available in the $2.6 to $2.8 range. One is on the 7th floor with a large outdoor terrace, the other on the 25th, with 4 balconies. They’re both over 4,000 square feet.
They units are combinations of existing half-floor units. I recently shot the second part of a series of videos showing how the developer is reconfiguring the half-floors on 24 into a full-floor for a buyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wRzimuRahw
At a $3.5M ask you can buy a 5,000+ square foot full-floor duplex penthouse at 445 E North Water with a wraparound terrace with spectacular views. Search YouTube for Streeterville duplex penthouse to see a number of videos I shot there.”
then the Crains story came out on DEC- 21: http://bit.ly/hwIDDu
Loan maturity approaches for River North project
By: Andrew Schroedter December 21, 2010
Loan maturity approaches for River North project
(Crain’s) — The developer of the Superior 110 condo project has only 10 units left, but he’ll need to pick up the pace if he’s to sell out before a construction loan matures this summer.
Jonathan Zitzman has closed just five sales since early June, when he cut prices for the second time at the 27-story tower in River North, completed in early 2009 on Superior Street, between LaSalle Drive and Clark Street.
Read more: http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20101221/CRED0701/101229985/loan-maturity-approaches-for-river-north-project#ixzz18v6DuWLI
Stay up-to-date on Chicago real estate with our free, daily e-newsletter
Ha ha….look at Joe, the vassal of a Jonathan Zitzman…and proud of it to boot!!! LOL!!!! Look at who has no taste!
Read more: http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20101221/CRED0701/101229985/loan-maturity-approaches-for-river-north-project#ixzz18v5cxRsc
Stay up-to-date on Chicago real estate with our free, daily e-newsletter
Joe,
I watched the video last week / earlier this week while at work. I almost fell out of my chair when they said they moved into 235 vbf without selling their old place. And then things got weird / akward when they talked about how they put down a down payment in 2007 but then worked with the developer to find a new agreement in 2010. I’m pretty sure their new place is already worth less than what they paid for it because its illiquid and i’m sure CMK didn’t sell it anywhere near market prices since they already had this couple salivating over the unit.
But hey, as long as they both make good salaries (I believe they said they lived within a few blocks from work which means they probably both have very good jobs), have a decent savings account, and enjoy their new place, then who am I to say they aren’t happy and didn’t make a financial disaster of a purchase with this place.
But as for me, I stopped drinking the kool-aid a long time ago.
Joe, adding to losing trades is a bad idea, especially if you are not properly capitalised. Sometimes it works but over the long term it is a bad idea. This is not an opinion it is a rule that professional investors follow. Sabrina your advice was sound to this young couple.
“And Groove, it’s easy to see why you failed to follow up on your promise to go on camera with me. It leaves you free to make ugly remarks about people you don’t know who appear to be enjoying life more than you are.”
i was crazy geek’d to do it had wifey google up some facts and i ear-walked some family members for some history when they lived in riis or montclaire.
But as wifey looked into your site, on crib chatter, and a few other chicago blogs, she banned me from doing anything with your site as she states “they way he handle’s himself” i dont want you to help promote it or participate.
even in this thread if you look above, you can see the tone in which you write and are towards others. you are an intelligent man and if you re-read you writing you know of what i speak. and yes many CC’ers here are 100x times worse and i know if Bob had a site my wife would have banned me from that one right away.
I still think, and alwyas say, you provide a unique product and very well done one at that, its just the internet discourse you partake in could be handled better. any one can be confrontational, loud, and belittling to make a argument. but its more creative and talented to make a point without all that muckity-muck
Itcaffey,
Matt and Lauren, like many home buyers, bought a home, and only incidentally made an investment decision.
Matt has a job that requires financial savvy. Lauren just received her MBA from Kellogg and works for a Big Four accounting firm. Both understand their personal goals and financial situation better than anyone here. Not the kind of people who are likely to value financial advice from anonymice.
Every investment decision involves a risk – reward analysis. People’s tolerance for risks vary, and not everyone looks only at the financial rewards when buying a home.
Groove77,
It’s pretty rich to be lectured about my Internet demeanor by someone who calls total strangers suckers because he disagrees with their decisions about how to spend their money and live their lives.
Mrs Groove’s concerns about lending your good name to my site are touching. Other wives might be more concerned about the risk that your employer might not like the way you spend your workday.
“Matt has a job that requires financial savvy. Lauren just received her MBA from Kellogg and works for a Big Four accounting firm. ”
While I didn’t attend Kellogg I do work in a job that requires financial savvy and attended another top tier MBA program. As I recall landlording 101 isn’t taught in either. lol.
I love it when cube jockey’s get stuck landlording–it requires a completely different skill set than what those two corporate bees were trained for.
“Mrs Groove’s concerns about lending your good name to my site are touching. Other wives might be more concerned about the risk that your employer might not like the way you spend your workday.”
very true, but as i have told you before, the CFO of my company is the one who directed me to this website.
i do agree my “joke” about the suckers is ill-informed and unwarranted. but hey if i was underwater and stuck in a 2/2 condo i still would have laughed and my joke.
life is hard enough as it is, lets not make it worse. be merry and enjoy, my internet Friend Joe Z. it is the holiday for it.
i do wish you, your family, and all at YoChicago a happy and worry free Merry Christmas.
Congratulations Joe Zekas, you have been unanimously nominated for the “biggest douchebag in the universe award” for 2010!
JZ,
Did you get authorization from Matt and Lauren before posting your video link on CC. I am quite sure that they are not pleased by being the topic of conversation on this website……….. my advice to you is it is probably better to for you to stay off this site…….. you know “rolling around in the mud with pigs will get you and your clients dirty”. Merry Christmas JZ
Bob – I’d agree with you to a point; if the landlord could afford a handyman/management company than the skill set would be exactly the same. Manage cash flows, maximize deductions etc. The main way to have that happen would be to lower the borrowing costs on the property to offset the increased management costs.
Otherwise – yah I haven’t seen any MBA classes with Plumbing 101 or Replacing a HVAC pump because renters didn’t switch out the filter for 24 months 201.
Joe, Matt and Lauren didn’t buy a home. They bought two homes.
Sonies: My wife wasn’t thrilled when I asked if her “D&B” bag stood for that title:
Example:
http://www.dooney.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=49524
“if the landlord could afford a handyman/management company than the skill set would be exactly the same.”
I’d be willing to bet it’s even more of a financial black whole with a mgt company taking a cut.
Mgt companies make sense with a lot of rentals..but one? Doesn’t seem like there’s scale there.
“Sonies: My wife wasn’t thrilled when I asked if her “D&B” bag stood for that title:”
hahaha
Valasko,
I’d rather not be here, and that’s why I participate only when clients are made an issue.
Groove77 initiated this conversation by making an ugly remark which he’s since backed away from, to his credit.
JZ, you didn’t answer my question. did you authorization from matt and lauren before posting their video on CC? Are they a client of yours or just a casualty of war? No one posted any negative comments regarding matt and lauren YOU brought them into this thread NOT groove.
valasko,
I think you’ve mistaken the clear import of Groove’s comment. Note his most recent comment.
I did not get specific authorization from Matt and Lauren. They’re not clients. I specifically discussed with them the reason I was not including their last name, i.e. the unruly nature of the internet. They were aware that the video would appear on YouTube and can be circulated by anyone anywhere.
They’re not casualties. The only war I see is the assault by CC regulars on anyone who disturbs their fantasy world about home buying.
Just curious,
Were Matt and Lauren paid to make the video or did they volunteer for the building?
Thanks!
JZ, my point was simple do you really think matt and lauren would like being a topic of conversation on this site? I know if it was me I would REALLY be pissed at YOU!
Think before you post……. you are representing yourself…… almost everyone else on this site posts as a fictional character.
“lmost everyone else on this site posts as a fictional character.”
Who you calling fictional?
anon, of course i wasn’t referring to you, as I recall you have an aston martin and a vacation property in vail…. right?
I’m just your everyday astronaut pornstar billionaire
anon(tfo) has an $80k BMW and G drives a Hyundai.
That of course may or may not have been a reference to Kayne
“18 years, 18 years
She got one of yo kids got you for 18 years
I know somebody payin’ child support for one of his kids
His baby momma car and crib is bigger than his
You will see him on TV any given Sunday
Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai”
So G is a professional football player with a baby momma or two. to make up for his child support losses he invested in real estate and was burned. Now he is all about bashing kool-aid drinkers.
See it’s easy. we all have a story here.
G knows clio because when G injured himself playing sports clio read his charts at some hospital in dupage county.
“as I recall you have an aston martin and a vacation property in vail…. right?”
Clio’s cheerleading convinced me to trade for a lambo.
And Vail? pffft. Gstaad.
“That of course may or may not have been a reference to Kayne”
Definitely off on the wrong track, HD.
Or the kanye line
what you think I rap for, to push a f-in rav-4?
“almost everyone else on this site posts as a fictional character.”
darn you it take hard work and hours of research to create groove77
David,
To the best of my knowledge, none of CMK’s buyers who participated in these videos were paid to do so.
If I had any knowledge that they were, I would have disclosed that in the video or narrative about it.
Several of the buyers were randomly approached by me or my editor at various CMK resident parties.
http://www.235vanburen.com/video/
Valasko,
Anyone can comment on our videos directly on YouTube and on our site.
What is it about this site that would make you so angry about appearing here?
“Clio’s cheerleading convinced me to trade for a lambo.”
@ anon, did you go with rosso vik , or maybe the superfly yellow 2ct?
@groovey, your hours of research show!!! keep up the good work my man.
JZ,
why don’t you ask matt and lauren their opinion?
You brought them to THIS site, they didn’t drive themselves here.
Thanks Joe! Much appreciated
You always bring some spirit to the site!
real men drive Bugatti
losers!
“@ anon, did you go with rosso vik , or maybe the superfly yellow 2ct?”
Managed to snag one of the flat gray ones. Took some wrangling with my Shanghai connections. It’s hawt.
valasko,
The record is clear about who made CMK buyers who appear in YoChicago videos a topic of conversation here. Groove77 did that at the outset of this thread.
I answered your questions earlier. Answer mine. What is it about “THIS” site that makes it so different from any of the other places where this video will appear?
“What is it about “THIS” site that makes it so different from any of the other places where this video will appear?”
Are there other websites you refer to as “a very distasteful place”? If not, then you’ve answered it yourself, Joe.
I answered your questions earlier. Answer mine. What is it about “THIS” site that makes it so different from any of the other places where this video will appear?
JZ you didn’t answer my question but I will answer yours. It’s not so much this site as it is that YOU BROUGHT THEM INTO THE THREAD/SITE, and if you brought me here without my knowledge then I would be pissed at YOU!
All i said was;
“What Will Be the Biggest Chicago Real Estate Stories of 2011?
3. yoChicago will have even MORE interviews with suckers, oops sorry buyers at 235 van buren”
why am i the scapegoat on this?
fine now groove made, groove shirt rip, groove now smash, no groove say;
what will be the biggest RE phrase for next year?
HAVE YOU BEEN CMK’d?
i will let you the people decide on how to “read” that one
“HAVE YOU BEEN CMK’d?”
yeah, slightly
Colin Kihnke and Bovis construction can eat my anus for all I care
Their shoddy construction/design is costing me a good sum of money during this difficult holiday season
TOTALLY HILARIOUS MEME.
“HAVE YOU BEEN CMK’d? “
“Their shoddy construction/design is costing me a good sum of money during this difficult holiday season”
Sorry to hear that, man.
Hey JZ why don’t to do a video of Sonies and how he has been CMK’d, or maybe to a followup video on your young couple in 3 years when they have a couple kids and want to move to the burbs.. CMK’d twice, double penetration ouch that must hurt.
valasko,
Sonies purportedly bought a resale in a CMK building (very happily at the time, as I recall), after being fully educated by CC, and lives several blocks from my office. I’d be happy to do that video, any time.
Sonies?
JZ, I doubt that Sonies will do that video as you will probably treat him like matt and lauren. Posting him on various blogs without his knowledge……
yes I’d be glad to go over all the shortcuts they took on the interior, and perhaps we can do a panel of concrete engineers asking if spalling is normal on prefab concrete slabs after 5 years?
well I am off to lunch with clio, we will be heading over to the lambo dealer after lunch. If clio and anon have one, then I DESERVE a lambo…… a christmas present to me and the people on the street…..what joy I will be bringing the people of chicago this christmas season.
Sonies,
E-mail me at yojoe at yochicago dot com to set up a time.
ok let me find some engineer friends who work in the materials sciences i’ll get back to you then
merry Xmas
Where’s Architect?
I’ve always wondered, when someone says “don’t build a crap building” or “they built a crap building”…..who is really to blame? The developer, architect, or GC?
I mean isn’t it really the architect who is responsible for picking out the materials and finishes and putting them in the detailed construction drawings? Doesn’t the architect hire the civil engineers that do that part of the drawings? How is it the developer’s fault if there are shortcuts in the drawings, engineering or physical construction?
“How is it the developer’s fault if there are shortcuts in the … physical construction?”
Huh? Are you really saying that the developer/contractor isn’t responsible for the quality of the construction work?
Also, have you heard of “value engineering”, the bane of architects everywhere?
Absent Sonies having provided any details, it’s possible that what he refers tp as “shortcuts” are industry standards, or the result of a carefully considered value engineering process. Architects bane is consumers boon to some.
We’ve also been given no details on the scope or location of what Sonies, before consulting his engineering friends, calls spalling.
Although, new foreclosures and short sale listings will decrease in numbers,the glut of distressed inventory will still drive the market. Sellers without distressed properties now understand this and if they choose to or must sell in 2011, will have to take the ‘if you beat them join them’ mentality. Thus, prices will continue to go down and the gap from distressed to normal sales will continue to merge.
Thus the #1 story for 2011 will be…. 2011 – The year of the deal. (Buying Chg. RE in ’11, will be akin to having bought Apple stock in 2000 after the split for $25.75. Apple today – $323.60
The developer relies upon the architect for plans & specs. The architect relies on civil engineers. Then everyone relies on the GC to build it to specs.
It seems to me, that if “a crap building was built”, it means that someone chose crap materials, specs, and cheaper engineering designs. You cannot blame the GC for building according to crap specifications, if that’s what they were given on the drawings. Right?
Are you saying that I’m lying about a 150k special assessment where there was scaffolding outside my building for months with people jackhammering and patching 360 degrees around my building to fix said spalling? We had our “city inspection” and it was deemed “UNSAFE” and had to be fixed immediately… so the “scope” of the spalling… 5 years after completely NEW construction mind you… with PREFAB concrete was pretty SEVERE
Maybe I should mention the windows that cracked for no reason at all on like 25% of the units that were luckily under warranty
or all the cheap shortcuts in drywalling, wiring, cabinet hanging and plumbing that I have had to remedy over just a year and a half of living in the location, not to mention the elevators… dear lord the elevators
LMAO yes Joe… crappy work is now considered “value engineering” you are such a shill.
Trust me, you don’t want me on video, I would imagine you would want to keep shilling your crappy CMK products and not get fired for exposing their low quality work.
Regardless, it was cheap for the location, I still love my place (problems and all) and most inexperienced people won’t even notice some of the things I do because they won’t work themselves on their proerty, but yeah… lets just say they skipped quite a bit and I don’t think If I knew now what I knew then I wouldn’t be buying a CMK property again.
Jeff B, will it still be known as “The year of the deal” when there are even better deals in 2012?
Let’s agree for a moment about that bottom call, then how quickly will that more than 11-fold increase in price take?
I simply said you provided no details, Sonies, which was accurate.
Looking forward to the video.
So, Sonies who do you blame? The architect who put the cheap shortcuts in drywalling, wiring, cabinet hanging and plumbing as the specs, or the GC that did the work? Or the spreadsheet/finance jockey at CMK?
Who is responsible for the concrete? the initial inferior specs or design? the GC who did poor work? Why is this the developer’s fault, technically? (Of course the top guy pays)…but who is really at fault for a crap building like this??
“You cannot blame the GC for building according to crap specifications”
That’s not what you wrote–you proposed “shortcuts in the physical construction”, which is different from doing an excellent, thorough job of physically constructing to the crap specifications. It is entirely possible to do sh!itty work trying to meet topnotch specifications.
Also, your response indicates that you are not familiar with value engineering, which (1) is the developer’s “fault” and (2) is a big reason for “crap specifications”.
The GC, if distinct from the developer, is not responsible for specs, but *does* remain responsible for doing a good job of meeting the specs, which is not always the case.
Sonies, those developers are much better people than you and buyers listen to them. Paying for their defects should be an honor. If you understood your personal goals and financial situation better, you would be renting out that unit and buying a new one at 235 W Van Buren.
“Sonies, those developers are much better people than you and buyers listen to them. Paying for their defects should be an honor. If you understood your personal goals and financial situation better, you would be renting out that unit and buying a new one at 235 W Van Buren.”
oh snap, Its Def Comedy Jam: Cribchatter Edition today here 🙂
Dan, everyone else works for the developer. The developer signs the contract with the buyer. The developer should be responsible for all defects. It is up to them to pursue their contractors but should be irrelevant to the buyer.
LOL actually i’d probably be selling my place and renting at 235 w van buren 🙂
or not.
living in the loop would be sooooo boring
Yeah but many times these developers are former lawyers, finance types, or they’ve always been in deal-making, zoning, etc. How are they supposed to know the very fine & technical details the architect (and the engineering firms he hires) has put in pages and pages of plans and specs??? I mean, that’s why they hire architects, engineers and building designers anyway. I find it hard to blame the “business type/spreadsheet guy” at CMK for faulty concrete problems. It would seem the problem lies in poor specs (arch/engineering) or poor construction (GC).
and Dan, it was a crap job all around but Bovis should probably get most of the blame since they were the GC but damn they really spared no expense… literally everything is about as cheap as possible in there (hence the affordability)
The “layout” of the building persay isn’t bad it just has a few design aspects that may not be good for the long term (most notably with the location and function of the HVAC system, where coincidentally the spalling mostly occured)
“It would seem the problem lies in poor specs (arch/engineering) or poor construction (GC).”
Irrelevant to the buyer. They should be made whole by the developer. The developer can pursue whatever failure they hired. You seem to be suggesting that the buyer should know more than the developer about “the very fine & technical details the architect (and the engineering firms he hires) has put in pages and pages of plans and specs”.
just throwing it out there, take it as you will,
but the thread was dead until a payed CMK pesron came about then all of the sudden we are learning about the quality of there work and about Special ASSESMENTS after 5 years.
and this wasnt even a thread about CMK.
was that car? i think i heard something BACKFIRE.
Sonies,
Some questions.
None of the interior issues you cite (on which you’ve still given almost no detail) were identified by your home inspector or by you prior to purchasing?
Your home inspector saw no evidence of spalling?
What was the cost of the special assessment you refer to for your unit?
Is it your experience that top-tier developers, architects and GCs can anticipate and avert every possible construction problem?
Taking your expenditures and your purchase price into account, am I not reading you right in concluding you feel you got a good value?
My issues with the inspector I used are another matter for another day. But no, he did not notice the spalling since it was outside and very high up (1st residential floor is the 4th) as for the interior issues, the list is too numerous to really bother wasting even a pointless work day like today listing every little thing done half assed.
As for overall value, for someone like myself that likes to DIY everything, it is quite frustrating to see how poorly everything was thrown together, but I do like a challenge so it isn’t the end of the world. Like I said, I _think_ I received good value for the location of the property (granted I wish I would have waited another year or so to purchase). do I wish some things were different? sure, but nothing I can do to change that now, except use a little elbow grease and DIY skills.
Anyways got to go, perhaps another time (when I am in less of a bad mood, and am at my property) I will go into more detail.
Merry Christmas/Kwanza/Robonika/Chanukah/Satanica whatever everyone
Sonies just provided one definition of “being CMKed” – taking everything into account, getting good value for what you pay.
“Sonies just provided one definition of “being CMKed” – taking everything into account, getting good value for what you pay.”
hey i dated a crazy psycho lady in college, she tried to stab me once and a different time tried to run me over. i still dated her for a bit and i always told my friends it because she is so hot and told myself she had a hard life plus SHE IS HOT.
anyone can justify anything its just a matter of creativity.
i can tap morris code on a tin can with a string attached and justify that its text messaging.
so have you been CMK’d today?
Groove77,
So tell us about your direct experience in dealing with CMK, or looking at their buildings in any depth, or talking to people who’ve bought in them.
You wouldn’t just snark away, would you, without having some direct experience to back it up?
Are you assuming i am implying being CMK’d is a negative thing?
people seem darn happy from you videos about buying in CMK
.
.
.
“So tell us about your direct experience in dealing with CMK”
i have walked past a few of there projects i did learn first hand that they do block the sun from the sidewalk i was standing at that moment is would say thanks because it was particularly hot and the shade provided my a happiness i couldnt find a block before that
I do thank you guys fro the entertainment on a SLOWWWWWWW day. but i gotta run, its been fun, and loved each minute of it!
From the Groove family to yours, Merry Christmas to you all, and enjoy.
Love your local friendly spiderman, Groove77
“…..who is really to blame? The developer, architect, or GC?
I mean isn’t it really the architect who is responsible for picking out the materials and finishes and putting them in the detailed construction drawings….”
A few years back Jim Hendry of the Cubs said it best. I was at a meeting where someone had pointed out that they were using the same architect to design the bleachers renovation as the White Sox used for US cellular field. They feared that this firm would ruin the Wrigley character like they did at the Sox ballpark. He replied that it is the architects job to design or bring to life the clients wishes within the budget that they want to spend.” “We are willing to spend what it takes to do it right.”
It is now clear that CMK and most other developers over the last 15 years were not that concerned about doing it right. They spec’d and built decent places that sold well and will become more difficult to maintain as these buildings age.
Joes life has been reduced to defending CMK on anonymous internet chat boards.
I will think of this fact when I get down on my life or jobs during the upcoming cold winter months.
No need to worry about my life, homedelete. I’m doing just fine.
As someone who practiced law at a very different level than you do, I can understand how you “get down” on a life of doing the work that falls to attorneys at your level. I never had to suffer that fate. And, my life has never been so bleak that I’ve had to come to CribChatter to divert myself from it.
The developer relies upon the architect for plans & specs. The architect relies on civil engineers. Then everyone relies on the GC to build it to specs.
It seems to me, that if “a crap building was built”, it means that someone chose crap materials, specs, and cheaper engineering designs. You cannot blame the GC for building according to crap specifications, if that’s what they were given on the drawings. Right”
Dan, you are so, so, wrong, concrete should be tested during the building process and must meet standards according to drawings and specifications …. GC will often cut corners here, no architect would specify crap concrete.
Yea, we looked at CMK developments and got scared off by new units that had cracked windows (no problem, we will replace those), warped kitchen cabinets, very, very narrow parking spaces, etc. The shortcuts taken in the interiors were enough for us, we didn’t even bother looking at the exterior.
No joe, you come to cribchatter to shill for cmk. I must admit, id rather be chasing ambulances or defnding child abusers than doing what you do..
“on a life of doing the work that falls to attorneys at your level.”
You mean as opposed to your “level”, which is outside the law profession entirely?
LOL nice try Joe. We know you failed out of biglaw just like you failed at every other professional you tried your hand at.
That would include a new homes notebook which went down in flames as new home sales have collapsed, haven’t they?
HD and Joe Z Good to see that the spirit of the holidays is finally hitting Crib Chatter.
Have a great holiday to my friends at Crib Chatter. Your comments and ideas are fun to read and offer a great distraction to my day. I have only one wish thus year. All I want for Christmas is to have Clio back!
Sure his views are often outlandish or out of sync with the average Joe but I do appreciate his positive spin on life. At the end of the day it is better to go through life with the glass 1/4 full than to spend it arguing over what happened to the other 3/4. Don’t get caught up in the negative comments. Brush em off and come on back!
I do wonder what is the bigger failure however? Joe getting cut from BigLaw expeditiously OR CMK’s floorplans? There is something obvious and funny about them: they obviously tried to shove as many units as possible into the smallest possible space. This is evidenced by the bedrooms often being behind the kitchen and not even have a full height wall, in order to meet Chicago code and allow natural light in.
Maybe Joe Zekas likes the smell of bacon grease in the morning or the ability to hear whats going on in the living room from the bedroom with stunning clarity, but I suspect many people don’t. LOL.
CMK = epic fail and they’re toast when their construction loan doesn’t get extended again after 2013.
Bob,
As you well know, I’m coming up on 25 years of running a successful business that provides a nice living for dozens of employees and serves a client roster that includes some of the nation’s largest newspapers and real estate brokers.
http://databasedads.com
Off to New York in the morning for Christmas dinner with my cherished son and daughter.
I wwish you and homedelete the most joyous of holidays, and a speedy recovery from whatever it is that’s so badly ailing you.
And peace and goodwill to all.
For a multi-family condo project, the architect has little control over actual construction quality. Developer’s design decisions and GC’s construction supervision and project buy-out create most “control” authority. Furthermore, day-to-day construction supervision by GC’s superintendent staff and developer’s project manager determine actual degree of “quality construction”. Poor architect, who’s lucky to get 3% fee (on construction cost, not developer’s cost or unit pricing) and the long-term liability exposure for conditions often beyond architect’s control and pervue.
Isn’t architecture the poorest paid of the white collared professions?
its teaching (although you can get generous vacations days; which I am sure they need to recuperate).
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Isn’t architecture the poorest paid of the white collared professions?
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Hah I’ve heard of databasedads before! I’ve always read it as ‘database dads’, which is not the same connotation.
Happy holidays everyone.