Market Conditions: Lots of New Construction Condos Still Available
Crain’s must be reading our minds as many of us have recently been wondering, “how many units are still available in those new construction buildings?”
As many have reported from the “lights on in the building at night” test, it appears that sales definitely are slow at many of the new high rise condo buildings.
Twenty-eight downtown projects still had 20 or more unsold new condos at the end of the second quarter, and seven had more than 100, according to a report from Appraisal Research Counselors, a Chicago-based consulting firm.
Here’s a list of some of the buildings with the fewest closings:
One Museum Park West at 1201 S. Prairie:
- Closed 22% or 65 out of 298
Museum Park Place South at 1901 S. Calumet:
- Closed 43% or 125 out of 288
The Legacy at 60 E. Monroe:
- Closed 49% or 174 out of 355
235 Van Buren in the Loop:
- Closed 52% or 371 out of 714
Trump Tower:
- Closed 65% or 316 out of 486
Those of you waiting for a deal at some of these buildings- may be waiting for awhile.
At 235 W. Van Buren, the project’s developer, CMK Development Corp., earlier this summer promoted an incentive package with free condo assessments for a year and a $5,000 closing-cost credit, but CMK has not offered steep discounts, said Appraisal Research Vice-president Gail Lissner.
Demand for new downtown condos remains weak, with developers on pace to sell fewer than 600 condos for the fourth straight year. The good news is that the supply of unsold condos dropped to 1,911 units in the second quarter, down from nearly 7,000 four years earlier, according to Appraisal Research. The glut has shrunk in part because many condos have been converted to rental units.
Still, progress has been slow at many big projects. At Trump, a 486-unit tower at 401 N. Wabash Ave., buyers have closed on just 316 condos, with about 10 closings a quarter over the past year, according to Appraisal Research. At that rate, it will take more than four years for the development to sell out.
The slow sales and high inventory at some projects will test the patience of lenders waiting for their construction loans to be paid off. Some will push price cuts to accelerate the process. The key for developers is to create a sense of urgency among buyers, says Garry Benson, CEO-president of Garrison Partners, a Chicago-based residential marketing firm. That will happen if buyers feel like they are getting a good value.
Some other buildings didn’t make this list including 65 E. Monroe and Aqua.
Also- two new construction luxury high rises are currently under construction- the Ritz on Michigan Avenue and 2520 Lincoln Park.
Many of these buildings are in the “luxury” category.
Will developers ultimately cut prices as even more inventory comes on the market?
Glut persists at some downtown projects [Crain’s Chicago Business, Mary E. Morrison, September 8, 2011]
There is a lot of interest in the Ritz Residences. Many are under contract. I was fishing for some incentives/bargains but they didn’t bite. It really makes me think they aren’t that worried. Do they know something I don’t?
“Trump Tower: •Closed 65% or 316 out of 486”
Yeah, those doctors from yesterday are going to be waiting quite a while and dropping their price a number of times before their Trump condo sells.
“two new construction luxury high rises are currently under construction- the Ritz on Michigan Avenue”
I was very surprised when construction re-started on the Ritz. I would have bet substantial sums that the crash had permanently killed this project. I simply can’t believe there are that many wealthy people in Chicago who are willing to pay that much for small spaces, even if they are on Michigan Ave., especially given the competition from places like Trump and 800 North Michigan.
Sad –
The ritz is in a much much better location than Trump and now that Chicago avenue is crowded with low-lifes (suburbanites, tourists, thugs, muggers), the ritz location is looking better and better.
BTW, are you still looking to sell? What are you waiting for?
One thing that hurt the Trump building is when they cancelled those friends and family contracts. Also, they never really lowered prices to market values and didn’t negotiate much on price. Apparently they can hold out for years as the developer…
Dave M – I personally think that the following things hurt the Trump:
1. Location (none of the ELSD or east of michigan) crowd (who have a LOT of money) would EVER think of living in that area. It screams nouveau riche. It is really for a younger more “hip” crowd – and those really are more of the nouveau riche – people that go to the crimson lounge or hard rock, house of blues, sunda, epic, etc. and unfortunately these are people that don’t have money.
2. Style – again it appeals to a younger, flashier crowd (and those people don’t have money unless they made it big in business – again, nouveau riche or foreigners who don’t know better).
3. Lobby full of degenerates – I’m not being a snob, but every time I saw a unit there, I felt I was walking through grand central station (or union station- or whatever the train station is called). A motley crew of people – which is great – but not in my lobby.
The difference between a place like Trump and something on ELSD/palmolive is the difference between Oak Brook (Joke brook) and Hinsdale.
“…and now that Chicago avenue is crowded with low-lifes (suburbanites, tourists, thugs, muggers), the ritz location is looking better and better.”
….and then you go ahead and make me laugh… good one.
They can hold firm on prices until pigs fly but they’ll never sell all their unsold units. The game is over but the developers keep feeding quarters into the machine to no avail…
ze, that was the purpose of that statement – glad I could add some levity to the discussion – it IS friday, after all….
“The ritz is in a much much better location than Trump”
They’re literally a few blocks away from each other. Generally speaking, they’re in the same location — both part of the large number of condo buildings that make up the southeast part of River North.
“BTW, are you still looking to sell? What are you waiting for?”
I’m waiting for a reason to move! So far, I don’t have a concrete one. Currently, I’d have to realize at least a $60k loss to move (including estimate realtor’s fees and moving costs). Also, I truly hate commuting and living where I do allows me to walk to work. While my condo is small, I don’t need a lot of space and I love the particular layout. Thus, unless I have a strong reason to move I’ll probably sit tight.
The building that baffles me the most is 2520 Lincoln Park. They had plenty of time to see the warnings and stop development. Either they know something I don’t or they have duped their investors.
The “Ritz-Carlton” brand and a “Michigan Avenue” mailing address are worth incremental $$ per sf. How much? We’ll see. Obviously more than the Trump name or a “Wabash” address.
If a “new” condo sits vacant for five+ years & collects dust at what point does it stop being “new”?
Also next year is pivotal: its when the banksters who enabled these developers can no longer rely on debt that has a government guarantee after 12/31/2012.
Curious this financial system emergency measure expires coinciding with an election cycle.
“Currently, I’d have to realize at least a $60k loss to move (including estimate realtor’s fees and moving costs). Also, I truly hate commuting and living where I do allows me to walk to work. While my condo is small, I don’t need a lot of space and I love the particular layout. Thus, unless I have a strong reason to move I’ll probably sit tight.”
Sad – if you took a 60k loss on your current place but then got 120k off on a bigger, better place, wouldn’t you be better off in the long run?
“What’s their alternative? To sit and do nothing for 5 years, like HD, and miss the once-in-a-career chance to be involved in a site/development like this? ”
Hahahah! Like that’s the only option.
How about returning to dog grooming?
“Agreed. But developers like to build. They’ll get fee income from construction loan draws every month, they’ll get the chance to hob-nob a bit around town for 3-5 years, meet people, and maybe, maybe they’ll eek out a good profit. What’s their alternative? To sit and do nothing for 5 years, like HD, and miss the once-in-a-career chance to be involved in a site/development like this? RE marketing/sales parties can be fun, lots of cocktails and shrimp, plus some decent broads.”
That part makes sense. I think we are seeing the effects in the examples posted in this article. I can only imagine the lengths the marketing team for 2520 went to. I would love to have seen the hob nobbing going on to get that $170m loan in summer 2010.
If its the banks money or theirs then by all means they should build if they like. But for fvcks sake don’t bail out the banks!
Liquidation auctions are what’s needed.
714 units jesus 135 WVB was designed as a dorm tower to pack in as many 20-somethings with RE fever as possible like sardines!
When I looked at 235 Van Buren a year ago the salesman said over 65% were sold, guess not! Luckily I didn’t believe the guy.
“The building that baffles me the most is 2520 Lincoln Park. They had plenty of time to see the warnings and stop development. Either they know something I don’t or they have duped their investors.”
I’m worried that they will build a subpar building on a fabulous location. This is the first building like this in ages. Most LSD buildings are old pre wars with really high assessments and few amenities (parking, gym, etc.) or 1950-70s buildings with low ceilings that are ugly. I’m worried they will cheap this building out in light of the economy and the price points they will now need to hit. Doing so ruins such a fabulous location.
bob: “714 units jesus 135 WVB was designed as a dorm tower to pack in as many 20-somethings with RE fever as possible like sardines!”
Their marketing (which is plastered all over the el right now) is hilariously ironic: “Break out of the rental box!” Complete with a picture of a person stuck in a little box.
Upgrade to an ever-so-slightly bigger box, but don’t forget to slip that financial noose around your neck before you do.
“Sad – if you took a 60k loss on your current place but then got 120k off on a bigger, better place, wouldn’t you be better off in the long run?”
You and I have different views on how much real estate will appreciate over the short and medium terms. I believe that we’re going to fall a little more, and then home prices will be approximately flat (in nominal terms) for the next decade or so.
But even setting that aside, that $60k loss I take now is $60k I would not have to put into stocks or other investments. Even taking into account leverage and mortgage interest tax breaks, I’m willing to bet that stocks will be a significantly better investment than real estate over the coming short-, medium-, and long-terms (as they’ve been in every recorded time period except for 2000-05).
“difference between Oak Brook (Joke brook) and Hinsdale”
While I do not know the western suburbs that well those both sound like nice places to live.
As for Trump vs. Ritz I suspect that both are aiming at the same market aka people that are strongly tied to brand names. I would also prefer a non-descript high end luxury development like the Palmolive over either of these two porperties.
Just moved out of 235 Van Buren after a year renting there. Great place to rent, I couldn’t imagine buying there. The whole building is filled with 20 something college grad students and teenage art students from columbia who are renting from the owner’s who bought pre-construction like my owner did. They employee extra security on the weekends because of all the drunkin parties that go on there (guilty myself on that charge). Lots of construction noise right now because of the congress parkway wacker drive project. Thank god I lived on the north side of the building and didn’t have to hear all that while trying to sleep when I work nights. You can easily rent out your unit for $1500 bucks for a one bedroom if you’re an investor. Prices are down to 139k for a 1 bed.
All this talk of nouveau rich makes me a little gaggy. Is this the fucking 20s? Do people still think like this?
SOLUTION: dig an enormous trench around the ‘green zone’ and fill the trench with copious amounts of lake michigan water so as to make the ‘green zone’ an island similar to manhattan (roger’s park and edgewater’. That way all the attached housing will become desirable kind of like it is in NYC – no one wnats to pay a mil for a 2/2 here but hell, gordon gekko paid nearly a million for his 2/2 in NYC in the 80’s!! Problem solved.
“Also- two new construction luxury high rises are currently under construction- the Ritz on Michigan Avenue and 2520 Lincoln Park.
Many of these buildings are in the “luxury” category.”
The distinction with these two buildings being (at least as far as I can tell) is that they are REAL luxury buildings, as opposed to most other “luxury” buildings that just claim to be high-end, or think that simply having a good location and being new is enough to classify them as luxury…
“Curious this financial system emergency measure expires coinciding with an election cycle.”
and the end of the Mayan Calendar… curious indeed!
Sad – you are sadly wrong in your view of real estate in the green zone in chicago. We will bounce along the bottom for the next year – thereafter you will start seeing steady significant increases in prices. You are in a good location – your unit will go up in value faster than you think. In 5 years you will be well positioned if you just stay put.
“SOLUTION: dig an enormous trench around the ‘green zone’ and fill the trench with copious amounts of lake michigan water ”
Um, HD, in what way is that not currently (kinda) true? Start at the Lake head west thru the locks, turn north, continue up the North Shore Channel, wahlah, back to the Lake. Most of the Green Zone IS separated from the rest of the city by water, from Lake Michigan.
“and the end of the Mayan Calendar… curious indeed!”
I aint tellin that answer either. Nanny nanny boo boo.
Yes but you need MORE water separating the two. It needs to be more island like. I’m telling you, this will work.
“anon (tfo) on September 9th, 2011 at 8:41 am
“SOLUTION: dig an enormous trench around the ‘green zone’ and fill the trench with copious amounts of lake michigan water ”
Um, HD, in what way is that not currently (kinda) true? Start at the Lake head west thru the locks, turn north, continue up the North Shore Channel, wahlah, back to the Lake. Most of the Green Zone IS separated from the rest of the city by water, from Lake Michigan.”
Per Mike HG – “I couldn’t imagine buying there … Prices are down to $139K for a 1 bed.”
The lowest-priced one-bedroom for sale is at $147,430, and that’s through a special city program, subject to income limits.
You can see video interviews with some of the people who did more than imagine buying at 235 Van Buren here:
http://www.235vanburen.com/video/
Two related thoughts.
First, I’m afraid that Clio is making alot of sense re: the location of Trump. For what the units cost in there, buyers in that range have better options in the more established/residential/tony areas of Mich Ave, NE Sville, and the east GC. The building itself is an outstanding addition to the city, and the deck outside of 16 is great. That’s about it.
Second, I too am really wondering about 2520 Lakeview. Who’s going to buy all those pricey units? It seems like most buyers of really expensive highrise units (empty nesters and high income professionals w/out kids) are oriented towards the hoods that are hurting the Trump. I realize that there are buyers who would prefer to live on LPW/Lakeview Ave over Mich/ELSD (e.g., me), but it just seems like a fairly small group.
anonny: “I realize that there are buyers who would prefer to live on LPW/Lakeview Ave over Mich/ELSD (e.g., me), but it just seems like a fairly small group.”
I wonder if that group is bigger than you and I think. Parents of young professionals living in LV/LP, etc.
Still, I’m seeing a lot of hurt for the investors of this place.
I have heard OMP west is going rental. It is a shame. I loved the units in that building. Legacy is pretty nice too, but with less than 50% sold, I wonder what would happen to them.
As for Trump, that man is so unappealing that I bet many people don’t want to take residence in a place that has his name on it and then there is the Hotel aspect too which will deter some.
Speaking of 235 W Van Buren, here are the mls resales in the building so far in 2011:
1513 1/1 closed 6/24/11 $220,000 w/p493
1513 1/1 closed 6/12/09 $271,000 w/p493
1617 2/1 closed 5/31/11 $210,000 w/p172
1617 2/1 closed 3/19/10 $234,000 w/p172
“I aint tellin that answer either. Nanny nanny boo boo.”
haha good one
as for the sales above… ouch!
“You can see video interviews with some of the people who did more than imagine buying at 235 Van Buren here:”
Wow that sounds really lame, I think i’d rather watch Jersey Shore, sounds like a better use of time!
“I think i’d rather watch Jersey Shore”
Just downloaded a bunch of Community episodes. Never heard of it, pretty damn funny.
I’m a future empty-nester (in another 10-15 years assuming my kids can graduate and get jobs), and I’d prefer the location of 2520 over Michigan Avenue. Here’s why:
In ELP you’re not overwhelmed by tourists/shoppers every time you leave your building. Also, you have Lincoln Park right at your door. The lakefront over by Michigan Avenue is a 10-foot strip of concrete with bicycle riders zooming by at high speed most of the time. In addition, Clark Street has a lot of good restaurants that I don’t have to dress up to eat at nor pay $100 per person. ELP is also quieter than Michigan Avenue.
Now would I pay $1 million for a 1 BR at 2520, or whatever outrageous price they want? No, and few will. Prices will have to come down.
“SOLUTION: dig an enormous trench around the ‘green zone’ and fill the trench with copious amounts of lake michigan water so as to make the ‘green zone’ an island similar to manhattan”
Yeah, and then people can make fun of Groove as a bridge and tunnel chump!
Dan #2, I agree completely. But I think your background (growing up in ELV, going to school a few blocks south of 2520, then owning a unit a couple blocks north) might be influencing your view, whereas many of the would-be buyers of these expensive units are either “a bit more midwestern” (for lack of a better term) or international, and many buyers from both groups likely place a lot of value on a Mag Mile-ish address and lifestyle.
I’m not sure I prefer one location over another. Trump and River North is way different than 2520 and LP. I’m not sure they would draw the same buyer. OTH if 2520 is a success (I doubt it will be) it will likely be at the cost of more unsold existing sales.
After watching Joe’s video of the couple in the penthouse at 235 WVB, I think they are happy now but may soon end up in a world of hurt. I think having children and trying to raise them in that building will get old quickly. Then, they will be faced with trying to sell one of the pricest units in 235 to buy a house while also being stuck with a unit at 630 n Franklin. I know I would not want to be in that situation.
Laker: Not only did they double down, they’re going to TRIPLE DOWN!
I like a good night’s sleep.
Dan #2, have you walked around ELP on a summer afternoon/evening recently? It is full of people. I actually prefer the tourists down town to the crowd in ELP. I understand having a town home in ELP, but living in a high rise there is not very appealing to me.
miumiu, I’m afraid that there’s simply a dearth of townhomes in ELP (ignoring Larrabeeland). Also, if you feel an area is teeming with pedestrians, why would you prefer to live in a TH, rather than up above it all in a door-staffed highrise? Lastly, I’d be curious as to your description of “the crowd in ELP,” as opposed to tourists downtown. Are you referring to the residents of ELP, or the folks who visit (the zoo/park/etc.) on the weekends?
By doubling down on real estate that schrewd couple can BOTH go Big AND go Home!! Brilliant!
It really is impressive, how bad these numbers look. Gotta move price down to find buyers… works 99.9999999% of the time.
One look at the bond market today reassures me I’m glad I’m not the developers, the developer’s banker, nor a current owner. Cool thing is the structures are already built and aren’t going anywhere so for now its thumb twiddlin’ time.
We closed on a 2/2 at 235 WVB the beginning of May. We feel like we got a pretty good deal (13% of list) – maybe not a steal, but we took advantage of the discounts from the original pricing and worked a decent deal for us off the list price.
This is an in-city apartment for us – we have a weekend home in Michigan and were looking for a 2/2 close to Union Station (I commute to North), my wife works at Tribune Tower and we are right on the Kennedy/Ryan to get out of town on the weekends.
There are definately a lot of younger people living in the building, and granted we are not here on the weekends – so not sure about all the parties going on. Pretty darn quiet in our tier though. I like the younger crowd – opposed to some geriatric neighbors and board members in some other condos we’ve lived in. They keep the building looking great – so if the parties are happening – no sign of it come Monday morning.
We also like the style/modern design of the building, being a fan of Ralph Johnson.
I know that units rent very quickly in this building, and feel pretty good that if anything changes for us financially, we would be able to cover our loan with rental income.
I’m not trying to sell anyone on the place. Everyone’s situation is different and people make good deals and bad. We set ourselves up with a good deal, a great mortgage and live in a place we enjoy.
Anonny,
It’s scary how much you know about me. I might be revealing myself too much in these threads!
anonny (or anyone else), since you’re talking about ELP (hard to believe), where do I go to eat with a toddler coming from the zoo area-ish? I.e., something more interesting than grunts or whatever. Seems a little barren. (And don’t dare say chez anonny, b/c I will show up.)
To me, if you’re not getting 20% off list, you’re getting ripped off. Of course that doesn’t happen very often, but still, there are so many overpriced units out there that 20% starts to put some properties in the range of ‘realistic’.
we’re in a double dip recession with no white Knight of unsustainable govt spending to soften the blow this time. unless you are getting a nice discount vs renting its insane to buy right now for most people.
DZ,
How about L20? (kidding).
There’s a good Irish place on the west side of Clark just north of Fullerton. I forget the name, but they have an outdoor area that’s good for sitting with kids.
Agree with MJ. 235 has a thriving market to rent to with UIC, Columbia, and all the schools around there. Hopefully the board doesn’t do soemthing stupid and cap rentals at a certain number. I really like the #12 tier units. I just wish there was a little bit more happening in the neighborhood in the evenings and on the weekends. It’s a ghost town down there except for the tourists at the sears tower and the the suburban folks getting off at the lasalle street metra.
The real estate market is so pathethic right now. Park Ridge for example has according to Redfin 432 properties for sale and under contract….and only 3 have closed in the last 7 days. Only 12 of these properties have lowered their price in the last 7 days. So it’s the same nonsense. No price reductions. Wait out the ‘bad’ market. Few sales of which a majority are skewed towards the low end of the market; buyers sitting on the fence saying ‘oh boy!’
Also, I have never ever seen Jersey Shore before, but I’m pretty sure its the dumbest show on the planet and anyone that watches it voluntarily is a complete and total moron, and actually might be making the general public dumber in the process
Anonny, I personally find the tourist more interesting to watch and they are often less aggressive than drunk loud folks, but it is a personal preference.
“Also, I have never ever seen Jersey Shore before, but I’m pretty sure its the dumbest show on the planet and anyone that watches it voluntarily is a complete and total moron, and actually might be making the general public dumber in the process”
I sometimes wonder if the amount of TV one watches is inversely proportional to ones intelligence.
“There’s a good Irish place on the west side of Clark just north of Fullerton. I forget the name, but they have an outdoor area that’s good for sitting with kids.”
Galway Arms.
Wait, when the old/real HD come back?
Thanks for remembering the name of that place, JJJ. We were last there about 5 years ago. Hopefully it’s still good. I think I had the basic fish and chips and a beer.
DZ:
Depending on the direction heading to/from the zoo, you could go to chichow’s favored nookies.
DZ, you’re right, the immediate zoo area is a bit barren in terms of places to eat (we’re regulars at Grunts). Quick thoughts:
Mon Ami is actually pretty accommodating towards toddlers, especially if there on the early side, and if the kid needs to leave the table for a moment, the lobby of the Belden-Stratford is an easy/enjoyable enough option (and for another month or so, if you get there by 5ish, you can usually score an outdoor table).
Riccardo (Clark/Dickens) is outstanding. It’s always good to have a reservation, which you can usually get before 5:30 (they answer the phone after 2). It’s not exactly a kid place, but they’re very friendly to families (and have a good crowd of family regulars for the 5 – 6:30 timeframe). Note that, in the coming months, Ricardo will be opening a wine/craft beer/brick oven pizza joint right across the street (in the old Clark Bar), which will be a welcome addition (and should be open earlier than the main restaurant, which is only dinner).
It’s a couple of blocks farther away, but Gemini bistro (Dickens/Linc) is pretty good.
On Clark between Webster and Belden, there’s a little sushi place (never been) and an Indian place (it’s o.k.; better off going a few blocks north to Hema’s). On Clark just north of Belden, there are a couple of tiny deli type shops, one of which has decent soft-serve cones. And speaking of treats, there is of course the excellent fro-yo shop on Clark at Grant (just steps from the 3/2.5 duplexes featured on CC).
While it’s a ways from the zoo, it’s not a bad stroll up LPW to Commonwealth, then up Fullerton to Clark, and you’re at Zapatista. There’s pretty much always tables during the kid hours, and it’s pretty decent. Also on that block, there’s Hema’s, Orange (for breakfast) and Reza’s (a new Middle Eastern/Persian place; I’ve not been yet). For the places farther north (Galway Arms, Basil Leaf, Molly’s Cupcakes, etc.), if coming from the zoo it’s a nice (and perhaps shorter) stroll to stay in the park and cut over at Arlington (or go under Stockton at Deming, by the pond/sunshine playground, if aiming for farther north on Clark).
And there’s always Renallis, which is very close to the zoo if you cut across where Clark meets LPW.
For a snack or drink, or for breakfast on Sundays, there’s Cafe Brauer, which has a lot of covered outdoor seating in a beautiful setting, and the food, while not great, is better than the lunchroom quality stuff they serve elsewhere in the zoo.
“chichow’s favored nookies.”
They do an awesome fritatta… never found a brunch place in Chi, I liked more.
“I sometimes wonder if the amount of TV one watches is inversely proportional to ones intelligence.”
Nope… TV Good!
“Nope… TV Good!”
21st c. reefer madness, I tell ya.
Thanks all. Mon ami gabi is v interesting suggestion and, hard as it might be to believe, I’d never heard of nookies.
anonny, I have to say, the nature boardwalk is pretty awesome. We don’t love the zoo on weekends so much b/c crowds, but, since my son will finally walk real distances, we walked from fullerton down, quickly through zoo and spending time in boardwalk and eventually down to loop, to take the blue line back b/c we haven’t bought one of anon’s taxi car vests yet. Really enjoyable despite so so meal at tiparos.
Yeah, Tiparos works just in a pinch (Elly’s, a few doors north of there, provides a fairly clean breakfast/diner experience). And I agree re: the crowds on the weekend. But note that, as fall rolls in, the crowds diminish considerably, even though it’s still plenty comfortable to walk around outside – and if you or the kid get cold, you can pop into one of the better indoor exhibits, e.g., Africa, or take a stroll through the Conservatory (which, if you haven’t been during the holiday season, has a few huge train installations, in addition to the dinosaurs that kids seem to enjoy spotting). And before we know it, it will be zoo lights time.
MJ,
I took a look today online at 235 VB and saw a lot to like. Interesting design both interior and exterior, great views, walk to the Loop location (though a bit far from Grant Park). If the city ever revitalizes the riverfront along the south branch, you’d be right there.
I did notice a lot of floor plans have windowless second bedrooms. Why is this so prevalent these days? I can kind of see the point if it’s an old office building that’s been renovated and the floors are just to large for every room to have a window, but why would you build new this way?
To me, a room with no window and a wall that doesn’t rise to the ceiling is pretty much worthless as a bedroom or as a den/office (in both uses, you’d hear everything going on in the living room and have no privacy, and the lack of natural light would also be depressing). I sit in a windowless office at work all day. The last thing I’d want is to have the same thing when I get home.
Dan 2.0
As much as I like Perkin’s and Will and Ralph Johnson’s design aesthetic – there is definately that push from CMK to get as many units into that building as possible.
Unless they halved the number of units per floor – no way everyone room is getting a window. I am on the southwest corner – and have full wall heights to all rooms.
I personally couldn’t live like that either – but thinking back 15 years to my first time buying a condo – it wouldn’t have been a bad option – and the price is relatively inexpensive for a lot of those units. IMHO.
Thanks for the explanation, MJ. Sounds like the reason for the windowless rooms is that they crammed so many units into the building. Over 700 units is a lot for 46 floors. I think it’s about equal to the Hancock when it was first built, though in that building, many units have since been combined.
“The real estate market is so pathethic right now. Park Ridge for example has according to Redfin 432 properties for sale and under contract….and only 3 have closed in the last 7 days. Only 12 of these properties have lowered their price in the last 7 days. So it’s the same nonsense. No price reductions. Wait out the ‘bad’ market. Few sales of which a majority are skewed towards the low end of the market; buyers sitting on the fence saying ‘oh boy!’”
I’ll be interested to see how the sales numbers are for the next few months. They seem to have fallen off a cliff.
Prices are really getting hammered in towns like Oak Park and Park Ridge now. But within the city- some things I thought were “deals” aren’t selling either. Uptown is just getting demolished right now. Possibly going back to pre-1999 pricing in many parts of that neighborhood. But even in Lakeview and Lincoln Park- it is not good in the under $600k range.
“I’m a future empty-nester (in another 10-15 years assuming my kids can graduate and get jobs), and I’d prefer the location of 2520 over Michigan Avenue. Here’s why:”
You’re unusual Dan #2. The target market for both the Ritz and 2520 are rich suburbanites (with a few city folk thrown in.) But for 2520- the suburbanites aren’t really interested. They’d rather be “downtown.” They never venture to the neighborhoods except to go to Wrigley Field and that is it.
So 2520 will have to rely on those in Lakeview and Lincoln Park who live in the older highrises nearby (and want to upgrade to a building with all the modern amenities, including ceiling heights) and those in SFHs whose kids are grown and they don’t need the space or the maintenance.
I used to think there were plenty of those people to fill 2520. But now, with values declining on the properties that must be sold to move into 2520- we’ll have to wait and see.
Sabrina – well said on your 2520 analysis. The in-towers are buying for status as well so the only thing they can hope for at 2520 is some celebrity residents to help elevate the address and buildings profile. I’m thinking second homes for celebrities based in NYC or LA that understand the benefits of being in a neighborhood over downtown.
Totally agree w/ Sabrina and Jp3 – suburbanites and out-of-towners want status/celebrity. They will buy in named buildings (palmolive, drake, trump, park hyatt, ritz) because they talk about their 2nd homes more than they stay in them (me included). Nobody wants to say “oh, my in-town is at 533 w briar” or “I stay at 1272 clybourn when in chicago”. It is pathetic, but true…..
Exactly. They’ll buy in the John Hancock before 2520. However, more home buyers with kids are likely to buy in 2520. But how many with kids can afford it? It’s going to be interesting to see what happens.
2520 is a fantastic location if you are a Lincoln Park lover, however.
Think of the surgeon with a young family living in say Elkhart. perfect target market!
JP3 – doctors don’t make that kind of money anymore. The average surgeon makes 200-300k/year. I don’t know why people think doctors have so much money. The avg pediatrician and family practitioner makes close to 100k/year – not too glamorous.
Good analysis, Sabrina, on 2520. My wife and I probably are unusual compared to many empty nesters and future empty nesters who might buy a place in the city. We lived in LP for many years and love it, and the status of a building means nothing to us (I’d even buy in 2626 N. Lakeview again, where we lived early in our marriage, but my wife wouldn’t go back for various reasons).
We’re also thinking of downtown Evanston, but for some reason that neighborhood leaves me cold. Too many chain stores, I guess.
“The ritz is in a much much better location than Trump and now that Chicago avenue is crowded with low-lifes (suburbanites, tourists, thugs, muggers), the ritz location is looking better and better.”
Clio, you are full of it. Seriously. All you know is to use ESLD and Palmolive every two other sentences. First, you don’t know zit about who lives there. It’s clear. There is plenty of Nouveau Riche in those buildings as well, trust me. Number 2, You can say whatever you want about Trump, but if we’re talking strictly location, making the argument that somehow being in the center of Michigan Avenue is better is silly at best, and I’m just being kind to you. The saddest part about Trump is that, for a Skidmore designed building, it’s a missed opportunity on an architectural statement. I don’t think the building is ugly but, it’s nothing special either.
Of all these buildings, 2520 has the best location hands down. I would be curious to know how the sales are progressing in that building and also at Ritz.
Last thing I’ve read in Crains about 2520 is that they are financially secure now as they have “GE” money.
“Perkin’s and Will and Ralph Johnson’s design aesthetic”
I use to be a fan, but seeing how they compromised on the interior layouts makes me feel nauseuous really. Modern architecture is not an aesthetcial statement. It’s a philosophy. You can’t just design something that looks beautiful on the outside and completely massacre the interiors.
Wife and I had some time kill this afternoon. Visited four open houses. All four were being sold by elderly or boomer aged residents – 3 of the 4 were vacant. Two of the realtors kept talking about the value of the lots because during the boom the small homes were torn down to build mcmansion….”your big lot here is an insurance policy for the next boom!” All the homes in this area are on ‘big lots’, dum-dum. All four homes were overpriced – some more than others. One was just delusional. It’s going to be another long, cold winter before these four homes sell…
2 years ago there was talking about this 235 Van Buren project to fail within 2 years. It has now sold 50% of its units. Does anyone still have concerns about its finance ?
I don’t know any poor doctors. This is a big myth about crying poverty. They are just a bunch of entitled whiners, that’s all. I know a doctor who just paid off his mortgage in 3 years, and this is in one of the most exclusive towns in the country.