Trying to Sell the 2/2 Conversion in Old Town: 1742 N. Sedgwick
We recently chattered about a 2/2 conversion in Andersonville that had all the features buyers look for including parking and yet many commenters thought it was overpriced.
See that chatter here.
This top floor 2/2 at1742 N. Sedgwick in Old Town was also recently converted- in this case in 2008/2009.
It is part of a 2-building association with 1 building on Sedgewick and 1 building on Fern. There is a brick courtyard in-between the buildings.
But because of the second building, there is no parking with any of the units.
The listing for this unit says 1-year paid rental parking nearby is included with the purchase.
Built in 1894, the unit has 10-foot ceilings and what looks like an antique fireplace mantle.
But the rest of its vintage character has been removed.
The kitchen has floor to ceiling cherry cabinets, granite counter tops and upgraded appliances.
You have to walk through the bedroom to get to the large deck off the back of the unit.
The unit has central air and washer/dryer in the unit.
Listed in June 2011 for the 2009 purchase price of $520,000, it has since been reduced $51,000.
Or you can rent it for $2790 a month, which also includes one year paid parking.
At 1255 square feet, this 2/2 is 100 square feet smaller than the Andersonville conversion we recently chattered about.
Will the Old Town location command $129,000 more in price?
Harry Olsen at Harry Olsen & Associates has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1255 square feet
- Sold in June 2009 for $520,000
- Originally listed in June 2011 for $520,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $469,000
- Assessments of $117 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- OR you can rent it for $2790 a month (includes one month paid parking). See the rental listing here.
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- No deeded parking- 1-year paid rental parking included
- Bedroom #1: 13×12
- Bedroom #2: 12×10
“Will the Old Town location command $129,000 more in price?”
Generally speaking, yes: *an* OT location should command $129k (on a 2/2) more than an Aville location. (It would help if this place were a couple of blocks east, or at least a few blocks north, but this spot isn’t so bad.) A 2/2 that sells for $300k in Aville would sell in the low $400’s in the OTT. That’s not a radical assertion (see, e.g., Crill).
As for this particular unit, it’s very nice, but the parking is a killer. A big reason to be willing to buy a 2 bedroom in a premium location is if it comes with parking (ideally a garage). There are lots of amazing 3 beds in ELV (that have been on CC) without parking; those are close calls too, but at least they’re huge. At this price point, I’d rather rent this place for $2,700. Even if it can close in the low $400’s, and even with the “year paid parking,” the parking issue will hit the buyer of this place come resale time.
If you are going to put a tv over the fireplace you have to hide the power cord! That alone makes this place look like a dorm to me. Also, why so few pictures? I doubt the master bedroom has only a daybed, so if I’m right where is a picture of the master? I think some new photos and touch ups would really help this place.
“If you are going to put a tv over the fireplace”
Any time I see a TV mounted over a FP in any listing I immediately think of the comments here. Heh.
1967 n maud which pops up on the site as a similar property is much nicer I think with a garage.
annony: while I appreciate the point you make regarding andersonville vs. old town, crilly still looks like an outlier to me in this market. They were amazing comps for those hoping to sell in that hood, but very few sellers have even near the quality of property.
On the rent: WTF? This has to be above market price. A bland, tiny box of a 2/2 with only decent finishes, for nearly 3K a month? If that is actually market rent, I might start buying the clio line of “renters are suckers.”
No deeded or common element parking, no deal.
The price of the Andersonville condo yesterday was laughable. This one would be fairly priced if the parking was owned and not rented. I think Old Town commands a much higher price in general than homes on the far north side since it’s so much more convenient for people who work downtown.
I cannot believe this closed for $520,000 in 09. wow.
There are a couple of 2/2s with parking listed under $400k in this area. They are a little more vanilla box without some of the same finishes. I think this needs to be listed at $399,000.
Good luck to the sellers, but yes the old town location (as long as its not next to the pj’s or section 8’s like the evergreen homes, which this house is not) is definentally worth the premium
andersonville and old town are like apples and oranges
Rehabs like this make me wonder what the economics are of a project that has potential for a single PIN SFH with parking or multiple PIN condo without parking. Not sure when this was sold as condos or what the market difference is in the area. It was probably a bubble era conversion and parking was not necessary or as profitable as more units; the post bubble seems to place more importance on parking.
Chibuilder, how did you do in the marathon?
“Rehabs like this make me wonder what the economics are of a project that has potential for a single PIN SFH with parking or multiple PIN condo without parking.”
This place wouldn’t work as a SFH. There are two buildings on a standard lot. The rear building was built a while ago and would be a waste to tear it down for a garage. You can see pics of it from one of the rear pictures.
The era of half a million dollar 2/2s is over.
$299.
The era of the expensive 2/2 in the SoPoCo might be over.
The subject property, unless it gets rented (and it would, likely at no less than $2,500), will eventually close no lower than $400k (probably around $420k). If it had a parking space, it wouldn’t take long to close at around $450k; with a garage space, around $470k.
“eventually close no lower than $400k (probably around $420k)”
The subject property, unless it attracts a 2008 Summer Olympics Knife-Catching gold medalist, will not close above $400.
I’d print off these sales from a few blocks north in the unparalleled ELP, point out they include parking, POINT OUT THAT ONE IS EVEN A 3BR!!, and make an offer well under $400. I guess anonny thinks ELP is a “subpar” compared to Old Town.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1948-N-Mohawk-St-60614/unit-C/home/13345579
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2019-N-Mohawk-St-60614/unit-2/home/12804302
“1742 N. Sedgewick”
Only one e in Sedgwick.
“I might start buying the clio line of “renters are suckers””
A lot of renters are suckers. Downtown rents are the highest on record according Appraisal Research. That sounds like a bunch of suckers to me.
What if prices continue to fall faster than rents increase?
“What if prices continue to fall faster than rents increase?”
What if they don’t?
Not that I believe rents are increasing downtown very much other than addition of higher quality units, btw. They will be back down as all the new bldgs open. The rest is due to shadow inventory creating temp supply constraint and will prove to be temporary, too.
“What if they don’t?”
Seeing that they still are, I guess that is the hypothetical. Ponder it all you like.
“A lot of renters are suckers. Downtown rents are the highest on record according Appraisal Research. That sounds like a bunch of suckers to me.”
Not really – I did a private sale of my unit at the palmolive and am now renting in a building 2 blocks away. The unit is the same size and costs the same as the assessments/taxes I was paying at the palmolive (around 3000). The only difference is that now I have several hundred thousand dollars that are no longer tied up AND I can move anytime I want. Renting is GREAT!!
“Downtown rents are the highest on record according Appraisal Research.”
That’s what, 20,000 or 30,000 units, max? Who lives downtown other than highly paid professionals who work a lot anyway?
Clio with a capital C is advocating renting? WTF?
My wife has got the ‘bug’ to buy and she is starting to talk about it more than I ever did. Yet we look, and we look, and we look, and while there is inventory, it’s a pretty weak mix of inventory. Lots of luxury, lots of low end stuff that’s overpriced compared to comps; and every once in a while there is a sale, at a random crazy high cost psf; and every other house for sale within a six block radius says “see! I told you we can sell for $290 psf in this neighborhood.!” Yeah, just that one sale…
Today at work I came across a BPO for lake front property in wisconsin. Long story short, the broker opined that values have fallen tremendously for lake homes, there are few bonafide purchasers, and sales happen after years on the market at 40-60% off original list prices; and that there are hardly any sales at all to speak of.
The brokers suggestion was to put a lot of money into the house to fix it up starting next spring, list it the following spring (2013), list it at $650,000, and he said, “who knows when it will sell”. He said some hoems have been on the market for three years without a sale.
Maybe if this god damn dumbass broker said “list at a price lower than the last sale and it will probably sell pretty quickly; list high and take minor price reductions and it will sell in years” I’d have some respect. He said to list high and hope for the best. what a dumbass.
HD – just out of curiosity, has there been anything that closed in the last 6-12 months that you would have liked to have bought (at the price it sold for)?
“Clio with a capital C is advocating renting? WTF?”
For certain people in certain areas in certain situations, renting is DEFINITELY better. For me (single guy who doesn’t entertain in the city and just needs a place to crash 5nights/month) renting absolutely makes more sense. For others (like you HD), buying makes much more sense. Real estate is not a case of “one size fits all”
“For me (single guy who doesn’t entertain in the city and just needs a place to crash 5nights/month)”
Is it really worth it you for $3000 a month? Why not get a place for 1/2 that if you are just going to use it 5 nights a month? Or, why not get a $500 a night hotel?
“Not really – I did a private sale of my unit at the palmolive and am now renting in a building 2 blocks away. The unit is the same size and costs the same as the assessments/taxes I was paying at the palmolive (around 3000). ”
Clio- I am sorry for your loss. Most of those who have sold in the Palmolive in the last few years has taken a considerable loss in the building. I am surprised that you were able to find a buyer- actually. Not much has been selling in there either when it DOES sell (although one $6 million unit did sell this year.)
You once said your unit looked into the Westin hotel- which means it wasn’t one of the “premier” units in the building so I’m assuming you had to price it pretty low to move it (no view etc.) Also- why would you give up the low taxes? Because it is a historic building, the original owners all got an 8 year tax credit. You were saving thousands and thousands of dollars. So why would you sell for a loss AND give up a huge tax credit simply to rent down the street? You could have just lived in the Palmolive for another decade with no problem.
If there is such a big tax break in the Palmolive, how come his taxes + assessment were 3k a month?
What if prices continue to fall faster than rents increase?
I think prices will have to get really, really low before we see a surge in buying. We are FINALLY seeing what has been predicted on this blog for years. Those people who 5 years ago would have simply bought the 1/1 or the 2/2 condo are now seriously rethinking that strategy given the losses that are occuring on a daily basis to those who “own.” They are choosing to rent the exact same (or in some cases- nicer) unit in a rental building instead. They don’t need thousands of dollars in a downpayment. In some cases they can move in for just $500. The newer apartment towers have hardwood floors, granite and stainless steel kitchens. They get the doorman, the pool, and the exercise room all without paying $500 to $1000 a month in assessments. AND- they can move at nearly any time if they so desire.
The equation is different for the single famly home market, however. Renting a SFH is different than renting a condo or in a new apartment building.
Heck- that new apartment building in Old Town is going up quickly. Why would I ever buy a condo on Wells when I could just rent there for the same (or maybe even less?) People are wising up about the smaller condos.
“Only one e in Sedgwick.”
Thank you anon (tfo).
Clio on October 11th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
“A lot of renters are suckers. Downtown rents are the highest on record according Appraisal Research. That sounds like a bunch of suckers to me.”
Not really – I did a private sale of my unit at the palmolive and am now renting in a building 2 blocks away. The unit is the same size and costs the same as the assessments/taxes I was paying at the palmolive (around 3000). The only difference is that now I have several hundred thousand dollars that are no longer tied up AND I can move anytime I want. Renting is GREAT!!
and…
clio on January 8th, 2011 at 8:29 am
“So, you’ll take a loss…big deal.”
Uhhhh – it is a big deal. Taking a 300k loss is not only a psychological big deal but a HUGE financial loss also (ie, I had to make 500k in salary for that 300k). In addition, I still need an in-town so it really doesn’t make any sense. I will just have to suffer through this period and sell when the market gets better (which, I believe will start happening in 2012-2013).
Taking a loss does suck and it happens all the time. Maybe cash on hand is more important at this stage
“Only one e in Sedgwick.”
Thank you anon (tfo).
Don’t thank the google-bot. It is simply doing what it has been programmed to do. 🙂
“If there is such a big tax break in the Palmolive, how come his taxes + assessment were 3k a month?”
Maybe he’s including the mortgage payment too? Because there’s no way assessment and taxes for a unit looking into the westin (which are the smaller units)- is $3000 a month (unless he was not an original owner in the building and didn’t have the historic tax break.) But even still. Without the tax break: $1000 for taxes and $1000 for assessments. That’s still only $2k.
The tax break is phenomenal. 6 N. Michigan also has it.
did you move east clio?
“Maybe he’s including the mortgage payment too?”
Dunno, he said he wasn’t. I thought he owned it outright.
Is this what typical taxes are on ones with the tax break?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/919-N-Michigan-Ave-60611/unit-11E/home/12621294
Tax: $2,545
Then this one most likely does not have the tax break?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/919-N-Michigan-Ave-60611/unit-9F/home/12621292
Tax: $9,800
If so, I agree with you in that it would have been MUCH cheaper to just stay at Palmolive. Something doesn’t add up.
“Because it is a historic building, the original owners all got an 8 year tax credit.”
I wasn’t an original owner. I was a 2nd owner – the tax credit doesn’t apply to re-sales. I didn’t have a mortgage on the place – but the taxes and assessments were close to 3k/month.
“Is this what typical taxes are on ones with the tax break?”
Yeah- you save thousands with the tax break. With all the Palmolive unit owners combined- the city is losing out on millions of dollars.
oops – I meant taxes/assessments AND parking were close to 3k/month (I think it was 2750). New rent is 2600.
“I wasn’t an original owner. I was a 2nd owner – the tax credit doesn’t apply to re-sales. I didn’t have a mortgage on the place – but the taxes and assessments were close to 3k/month.”
Okay- that makes more sense then. You could have had taxes anywhere from $1000 to $2000 a month (depending on the size of your unit). Then add in assessments of around $1000 a month (or higher) and parking of like $300 a month and I can see how you’d be at $3000 a month quickly.
I may not always be right, but I definitely don’t lie. I am so looking forward to being a renter. It is such a burden off of my chest. Honestly, I don’t know why ANYONE would buy unless they have children (and expect to live in a place for awhile) or absolutely 100% know that they are going to stay put for 10-15 years (which is unlikely in today’s world). Owning is a luxury that is unnecessary for most.
“I definitely don’t lie”
funny stuff
@CH
It is funny stuff. Kerry-esq flip-flopping but instead of slow philosophy shifts over decades, we’re talking 3 months.
clio on July 20th, 2011 at 7:27 am
G (and the rest of you): I think I would rather be called a “friggin idiot” and have multiple properties than be a “smart renter” and always be looking in from the outside. Believe me, I am in a much better position than any renter. This site really should be renamed “rent chatter”.
clio on July 6th, 2011 at 9:39 am
HD – it’s completely abnormal to switch opinions 160degrees without any type of stimulus or change in data – that is just bizarre and lessens your credibility. Seriously, why did you change your opinion? Any new data (or lack of data) out there?
Huh? What? OTT?
I know this section. If you look at the 4 lot radius bordered by
1737 N. Fern and then the 3-4 houses to the north plus
this place 1742 N. Sedgwick and then the 3-4 house to the south
I suspect that a bunch of owners/investors with some OTT/city pull got together and started putting in new construction even in OTT. Perhaps they were able to make the new construction fit in from a period perspective.
The PINs for that area I suspect are also weird because some of the properties share an underground garage that gives you two parking spaces per house and then you have access to the parking garage through a shared above ground yard.
I wouldn’t be surprise if this building was done in the same way and with the same group.
There is also more newish construction happening just two lots north of this location.
The “conventional wisdom” now seems to be that you don’t “have” to buy a residence unless/until you have kids. This is a true “sea change” from attitudes as late as, say, the 1940s. Back in the old days, even affluent families in “nice” neighborhoods often rented large apartments and stayed there forever. Consider all the 3-bed apartments in areas like Ravenswood and Hyde Park that have been converted into “2/2s” since the 80’s. They had decidedly “upscale” features like crown moldings, marble fireplaces, master baths and often “servant quarters” off the kitchen.
What would it take to make renting your home (and putting “investment” money elsewhere) “respectable” again for people with children?
RE: “flip-flopping”
Do you guys know anything about how to succeed in life/business? You have to adapt and change your opinions/strategies with the times. Anyone who holds steadfast to their opinions/ideas is not going to be successful. Seriously, look at the most successful people in ANY business or in any facet of life – they are the ones who can admit when they are wrong and change with the times. Adaptation has always been the key to success. People who say renting is always better are wrong. People who say buying is always better are also wrong. Situational considerations are what is key in determining which is better – and these situations are in constant flux.
Pretty basic concept….
clio: “Seriously, look at the most successful people in ANY business or in any facet of life – they are the ones who can admit when they are wrong and change with the times. Adaptation has always been the key to success.”
Wait, are you admitting you were wrong? Will you now apologize for calling the chatterati “idiots” when they disagreed with you? Will you now admit that your prognostications on Chicago real estate were not infallible and were in fact worse than, say, HD’s?
You’ve got a lot of backpedaling to do if this post is to be believed.
Chuk:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1209-Granville-Ave-60068/home/13564521
I had this on my radar but I need something closer to the metra. I really like that 50’s look. Not quite midcentury modern but definitely a modern looking home. Room and board furniture would look really cool in this place.
I thought this was a fairly priced and nice looking property. Somebody snapped it up for cash. I however think within a year or two similar properties will sell for $250, $260ish and by then (if there any available) I may consider pulling the trigger (and don’t ponit out that trilevel flipper property on park plaine for $349,000).
HD:
given that this (apparent) teardwon:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/143-S-Lincoln-Ave-60068/home/13640105
on a similar sized lot but in a better PR location sold for $205k, that one was an affirmatively good deal.
I wouldn’t be enthusiastic about being that much in the flight path, tho.
Is all of Park Ridge on the flight path?
Is flight path a euphemism?
“Is all of Park Ridge on the flight path?”
Not all, no:
http://flychicago.com/PDF/Environment/OHarenoisecontourcomposite1979-OMP.pdf
More legible, for my point:
http://flychicago.com/PDF/Environment/ORD-OMP-FullBuildOutNoiseContour.pdf
oh that doesn’t seem bad at all
“oh that doesn’t seem bad at all”
HD’s Granville sold comp is darn close to that logest line. And note that that is a 24-hour *average* at 65 dB, which is something like 75% as load as a Hoover.
oh anon(tfo) raining on my parade.
“oh anon(tfo) raining on my parade.”
I just figured that the flight path was a reasonable proxy for being under 200 feet from the freeway. Two things that really diminish competition. If you’re okay with that compromise, much more likely to find a good deal, which your example certainly looks to be. At $125 psf for the structure, about $80k for the lot–with the comp I linked, seems like a reasoanble discount, assuming all else (ie elementary school) is basically equal.
that granville house was pretty HD. really nice looking.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/842-N-Lincoln-Ave-60068/home/22983955
Anon(tfo) this 90×100 foot lot is listed for $174k
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/644-N-Dee-Rd-60068/home/13647971
anon(tfo) this trilevel house just sold today for $300,000; only $10,000 over the 2001 price. On a double lot (50×125), according to the realtor, “EVERYTHING has been redone”; it looks nice. Sure it’s a corner lot and on Dee Road (which isn’t all that busy from what I’ve seen). Call me crazy, call me insane, but I like these prices out here, even with high taxes ($7,400), you get good schools K-12, lots of park dist. amenities and it’s only a four block walk to the dee road metra. Something like this just doesn’t exist on the market in the ‘green zone’, it would have been torn down and turned into a luxury house or a 6 flat. Even in an ‘fringe’ neighborhood something like this is tough to find. Even in edgebrook or wildwood, there’s nothing this nice looking and with this tasteful of an interior (And there are plenty with way fug interiors) at this price. Sorry guys but the first suburb outside of the city is looking so much better to me; i’ll visit the city on the weekends. Even with my wife’s longer commute in on I-90 in the morning she’ll just have to suck it up.
Homedelete- that looks like a nice house to me. I’ve seen these houses all over the suburbs for good prices. Many of them are updated with new kitchens and baths. They are WAY cheaper than you would find in the GZ and also usually bigger. The schools are so much better – it’s not even funny.
I’m a big fan of the city- as is obvious from this blog- but there are so many pros to living in the interior suburbs now – especially on the price. With interest rates this low- to buy a house for $250k to $300k? It’s a no brainer.
But you can’t even get this in Avondale or East Humboldt Park. You’re paying $400k for something equivalent.
By the way- if you’re concerned about the flight path- these 1950s split levels can be found for similar prices all over other suburbs like Deerfield, Arlington Heights, Northbrook etc.
“The schools are so much better – it’s not even funny”
The *attendance area* *high* school is so much better. Since you were comparing to the “GZ”.
HD:
Those are all nice houses for the price. So long as your wife is okay with the commute trade-off, with how you describe your housing-related desires here, I don’t see why you’d even consider staying in the city, unless the *perfect* place dropped in your lap via f/c, short sale or reo. (and yes, for HD, the *perfect* city house may not even exist)
It just closed for $444k