Uptown Penthouse with Private Roofdeck Reduces: 4650 N. Winthrop
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom Uptown penthouse at 4650 N. Winthrop in May 2009.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
Since then, it has been reduced about $50,000.
The unit has 3-outdoor spaces, including a private rooftop deck. It also has 2 fireplaces and upgraded kitchen appliances, such as Sub Zero, complete with a wine cooler.
The master bedroom has a 17×10 closet, which is bigger than most bedrooms we chatter about.
Pamela Plotkin at Dream Town Realty has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #3: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2400 square feet
- Sold in July 2006 for $495,000
- Was listed in May 2009 for $499,000 (parking included)
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $449,999 (parking included)
- Assessments of $140 a month
- Taxes of $6938
- Central Air
I looked at this building a couple of years ago.
Nice building, but it’s on a horrible block. This section of Winthrop is no more than an alley, very badly kept and dangerous at night. The building sits right next to the backside of the buildings on Broadway, with their trash dumpsters practically on the sidewalk. It’s close to the corner of Broadway & Wilson, which is very ghetto-ish and which draws a very dicey crowd of people. Three blocks away, new low-income housing is going up at the Wilson Yards site.
Units in this building have sold very slowly. I haven’t kept track of closing prices here, but was offered a 20% discount back in 2006, when I wandered into an open house here.
$300K at the most for this because of the horrible location. This is such a stinky pocket of Uptown it might as well be the corner of Clark & Howard.
I really hope you’re way off base, Laura. I’d hate to see the owner take that much of a haircut.
I think it will go for high $300s, despite the location.
Even the Google Street View looks a little rough around the edges. Easily the nicest units on the block.
http://www.uptownupdate.com/2009/08/street-fighting-at-sheridan-leland.html
And for that low, low price you get this scene just 2 blocks away… horrible time to try to sell in uptown.
Even if you aren’t a RE genius, you should know real estate is all about location, location, location. If you have to walk past overflowing dumpsters, prostitutes, shelters, payday/title loan stores, dirty chicken places etc to get to your unit then that’s a sign that you should either wait until you can afford to buy in a better area in uptown or just wait.
Saturday night, 2 blocks away: http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1718858,w-uptown-shooting-081609.article
I never understood why people would pay so much to live in Uptown unless you are in A’ville proper. Even A’ville is a little discounted from the typical chad/trixie hood.
That is a nice unit. I say $375k or they are going to be owning it a while. I don’t think buyers are going to be as forgiving of the neighborhood.
ah the good ol Uptown where most of the psych ward people go when their home/institution kicks them out or closed down.
its a beautiful place, nice sized, but as Lauren said “location, location”. even in the day time its crazy around there.
one positive, when you will have a party you can play the new game “what did you see as you walked here” and the “the crazy person drinking game” (take one shot when you see a crazy person talking to them selves, three shots back to back if you see crazy person with his junk hanging out his pants)
Uptown would have probably been completely genetrified years ago if there wasn’t such a high concentration of flop houses. I remember looking at a unit back in ’04 or 05 on Lawerence and they were asking $300k+ for a 2/2 and it was right across the street from a halfway house. You are looking out your unit and there are folks sitting on the stoop across the street drooling on themselves at all hours of the day. Great view for $300k.
It was at that moment I knew we were headed for trouble.
“Groove77 on August 17th, 2009 at 8:08 am
one positive, when you will have a party you can play the new game “what did you see as you walked here” ”
Don’t forget “Reverse Frogger” as you drive up Broadway, trying to avoid the hobos sauntering across the street.
Please lets hear more Uptown stories of woe in this thread!
Oh yeah you couldn’t pay me 450k to live here!
Good thing junkies don’t surf the MLS or else you’d have those nice finishes stripped free of charge.
450k for this? LMAO!
They might find a sucker in an out of town buyer, but only if its showed at exactly the right time of the day so the riffraff is asleep (around 7-11am).
I don’t believe a word of what I read on here or any of the links to street fighting/problems in area. The listing reads, “Intimate building on a charming Uptown block” and I believe that! Not.
Seriously, where do these realtors come up with their descriptions – this one must have been playing the aforementioned drinking game to come up with this one. Charming? Yea – if methheads and crazies are your idea of charming. NEVER would I live in Uptown.
My favorite Uptown story is when some guy robbed a store on Argyle wearing nothing but a sock… and it wasn’t on his foot.
“Oh yeah you couldn’t pay me 450k to live here!”
Yeah, big talk, man. I’d live here if someone gave me $450k.
And you would, too, Sonies, b/c then you’d own your piedatierre free and clear, and spend most of your time there b/c it’s more “convenient”, right?
Bob I think your shorts will start paying off!
“Yeah, big talk, man. I’d live here if someone gave me $450k.
And you would, too, Sonies, b/c then you’d own your piedatierre free and clear, and spend most of your time there b/c it’s more “convenient”, right?”
Ok sorry but what is a piedatierre? Some new stupid realtor word for condo?
And I might live here if someone gave me 450k and the property for free, because then I could afforda bullet proof hummer with a cow/bumcatcher on the front, oh and I could also afford to buy a place in a good neighborhood. Oh and I could buy as much meth as my heart desires… right in my back alley!
“Uptown would have probably been completely genetrified years ago if there wasn’t such a high concentration of flop houses.”
You can thank Helen Shiller for that.
“Don’t forget “Reverse Frogger” as you drive up Broadway, trying to avoid the hobos sauntering across the street.”
heeheheee so true. thats why i never take my car to uptown, never ever take it there
“bullet proof hummer with a cow/bumcatcher on the front”
LMFAO!
Sonies please tell me where I can get the bumcatcher accessory for my ride. Oh the times I would have!
“Oh and I could buy as much meth as my heart desires… right in my back alley”
lmao Sonies
“Illinois has $447 billion in mortgage debt. 29.4% of the properties have negative equity.”
“The aggregate property value for loans in a negative equity position was $3.4 trillion, which represents the total property value at risk of default…Illinois ($146 billion)..Chicago ($134 billion [of this]).”
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
I’m not going to show the sand states as they make Illinois and Chicago look like child’s play. But we obviously have problems here.
Also looks like the bulk of the underwater problems in Illinois are in the city. With only 12B in loans outside Chicag in the state of Illinois underwater.
Uptown stories you ask, well I got from 2005 when I lived in Lincoln Sqare.
There used to be an out of shape black woman that would dance in underwear on Broadway and Montrose. Basically, just dance around on the corner with a ghetto old boom box next to her. Quite a disturbing site. ewwwwww
I saw this happen a few times and it made me wonder when/if things around there would ever change.
> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
Ah yes, the random dude with a blog analysis.
Bob:
What percentage of mortgage holders with negative equity actually care? They like their homes, their schools, their neighborhoods and intend to stay for 5, 10, 15 years or more?
My home in Fairfax Virginia went no where for 10 years before the value took off at the same time it was becoming more run down for reasons I still don’t understand.
“Also looks like the bulk of the underwater problems in Illinois are in the city. With only 12B in loans outside Chicag in the state of Illinois underwater.”
That’s pretty obviously *metro* Chicago, however defined. Else, NY would be way ahead of NJ & Illinois on the state rankings–given that “New York”, in the city/metro rankings has a bigger number that both NJ & Ill statewide number.
Which isn’t to diminish the issue, but the problem ain’t just the city; it’s also $250k+ mortages on townhomes near Joliet and Elgin that should sell for ~$150k.
Oh, and based on the chart excerpts shown, Illinois is “better” off than Colorado and Gerogia (in addition to Cali, Nevada, Arizona and Florida) on the rate stats–it’s just that Illinois is a much more populous state than Georgia or Colorado.
“What percentage of mortgage holders with negative equity actually care? They like their homes, their schools, their neighborhoods and intend to stay for 5, 10, 15 years or more?”
For those that both don’t plan on moving now and in the future and can afford the monthly payment each month they aren’t really a risk.
Those that are a risk are:
1) those that plan to move in the future and continue to want to do so
2) those that don’t plan to move in the future but change their mind at some point in the future
3) those who don’t plan to move in the future but have an income stream interruption at some point over the course of their mortgage
4) those who treat walking away as an economic decision and not an emotional decision & see that they can rent a house down the street for less than their ownership costs.
Not sure what percentage #s 1-4 are and there is obviously some overlap. #s 1-2 might be managable, but #s 3-4 are the real kickers.
“For those that both don’t plan on moving now and in the future and can afford the monthly payment each month they aren’t really a risk.”
Should’ve added..”if they can keep their income stream intact over the duration of their mortgage”
More rentals
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/08/rentership-society.html
“Based on data from the Census Bureau, there have been over 4.3 million units added to the rental inventory since Q4 2004, far more than the 1.1 million new units completed as ‘built for rent’ since 2004.”
By itself, this data doesn’t say much, since we don’t have any rate of change comparison.
“In addition, many of the modification programs are really turning homeowners into renters (or “debtowners”). Most mods just capitalize missed payments and fees, and reduce interest rates for a few years. Many of these “homeowners” will still have negative equity when the interest rate increases again, and this could be viewed as Single Family Public Housing.”
Well put.
Bradford doesn’t like Mish..maybe the WSJ will placate him (likely not):
The New American Dream: Renting
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204409904574350432677038184.html
Regardless your view on housing the above article is an awesome read about how we got here.
Not only are the SRO flop houses killing uptown, but so are all the CHA highrises that are clustered in this area.
Plus, you have many post-industrial brownlots, you have the ghettoish shopping district at Broadway & Wilson just behind this building, you have a huge concentration of social services for not only the mentally ill, but for drug addicts and ex-cons.
The neighborhood is burdened with much built ugliness, mainly the CHA buildings, that will be much harder to get rid of than the SROs.
However, the flophouses are bad enough. I work for a business in this area (to protect my employers from my loud mouth, will not name), and spoke to a rep of SS Area #34 about them. She said that they have to remain because the need for “affordable” housing.
As long as Helen Schiller or one of her acolytes is running things, this part of Uptown will be a dirty, mangy slum cluttered with ex-cons and desperate people and lots of tragedy.
Why anybody would pay to live around all this, especially in a tanking market, I don’t know. There are too many good deals in Lakeview, Andersonville, Edgewater, and Ravenswood to settle for this for anything like the asking price.
Mish is not quite ‘some random dude.’ Apparently you didn’t check out today’s (or yesterday’s) post where he discusses the demographics of his readers, which tend to be wealth and influential and male. Don’t be so dismissive of things you don’t know or understand.
“#brad on August 17th, 2009 at 10:30 am
> http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/
Ah yes, the random dude with a blog analysis.”
“Don’t be so dismissive of things you don’t know or understand.”
You mean for brad like the housing market?
The ‘good’ deals usually get ‘snapped’ up with 30 days of listing with multiple bids. In my neighborhood (OIP) any SFH no matter the condition listed below $399k is usually under contract in less than 30 days. The nicer properties are still listed in wishing price range ($400+) and they just sit FOREVER.
I hate to say it but I think that prices may be near the bottom, but, what you get for the bottom price will only get better as time goes on. In OIP, today’s average buyer is looking for something in the $300’s. If you want to sell your home in OIP, sell it in the $300’s. Oh wait, you paid $475k for it in 2005? Price it in the $300s and it will sell in 30 days. The $400k and $500k+ buyer is few and far between but the $300-$400k buyer is ready willing and able. As 2011 and beyond approaches, the number of ‘deals’ in the $300k-$400k range will only increase, but I don’t think that median prices will go down more than 15% from where we are now (at least in my hood.) Which makes sense, because the $300k-$400k median is around nominal 1999 pricing, and today’s median price is already at 2002 pricing and 1999 pricing isn’t too far behind. But again, what I stress is that what you get for the 1999 pricing is what will be the deals.
pricing.
“There are too many good deals in Lakeview, Andersonville, Edgewater, and Ravenswood to settle for this for anything like the asking price.”
laura- Don’t forget the open air drug markets and street fights. Check out ajn’s video at the top of the thread. Why rent a gangster movie through Netflix when you can peek out your window for free?! 🙁
“I hate to say it but I think that prices may be near the bottom”
It all depends on the banks. Right now the banks are sitting on their REOs and not pushing foreclosures through the pipeline. They aren’t forced to unload these as our government handed them hundreds of billions of dollars and the Fed is taking garbage securities as collateral so no liquidity squeeze. And the Fed is also paying interest on Fed reserves to boost bank profits.
So now, with MtM suspended, the banks are taking the approach of trying to spread these losses over a period of years instead of being forced to expeditiously unload their REOs at market prices.
So long as taxpayer monies keeps getting thrown at the banks they can play this game and don’t have to cut on price. But watch if public opinion changes (and it might) on this.
The real winners are the defaulters as often the banks aren’t even filing the notices of default. Its free living and these are the prime beneficiaries (really co-conspiraters) of these shady bank practices.
“Why rent a gangster movie through Netflix when you can peek out your window for free?!”
You can get an even better view of drug dealings and shady violent behaviour from your “private rooftop deck!” And if they get too close to your building you can always drop the hot oil on them. That always seems to deter bums and criminals from hangin out on your stoop. Maybe that’s why this place is 450k, there’ a hot oil apparatus on the roof, gas heated cauldron on hinges or something…
You’re right Bob but $150k household income, which puts you on the higher end of incomes, can conservatively buy a $300-$400k home, of course with a down payment and without stretching the budget too much. That’s the sweet spot and that’s why homes, at least in my neighborhood, are selling like johnny hot cakes. However, going forward the quality of homes selling in the $300k-$400k will improve. in 2005 $400k bought a duplex down condo conversion; in 2008 it bought an older bungalow, today it’s buying a decent American 4-Square – under contract in 17 days.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4028-W-Grace-St-60641/home/13458167
G was right, if you think there are deals today, there will be even better deals tomorrow.
The sellers currently priced in the $500k or $600k range are going to have a hard time selling unless they lower their prices to $300k – $400k. There aren’t enough $200k+ households or buyers with large enough down payments to sell all the $600k houses for sale.
“However, going forward the quality of homes selling in the $300k-$400k will improve.”
So will the quality in just about every segment. 2006’s 225k 1/1 in a desirable hood will be 2012’s 160k 1/1, etc.
You’re going to see some serious demand destruction in the city, especially in ‘hoods ‘recent Big 10 grads’ have never heard of or wouldn’t consider. Just wait.
These ‘non-prime hoods’, in my view, should trade at significant discounts to their suburban counterparts to account for the lower quality of CPS schools as well as the higher city taxes. Its coming, just wait..
Look at my link above. That house was listed at $399k and under K in 17 days. In 2005 $399k bought a 4 bedroom condo conversion duplex down. Would you rather have a SFH or a condo conversion duplex down for $400k?
I would choose the SFH in OIP, buts thats just me. and being that close to smoque bbq i can see my pants not fitting after a year 🙂
but OIP at one point was turing into the next Roscoe village if it wasnt for the bubble.
Your link above is hilarious–why is there a picnic table in that walk in closet?
Seriously though this was just someone buying a 250k house for 400k because we’re on the way down. Lets see what 400k gets in three years. My bet is more than one and a half baths.
It seems to me there are granite countertops in way more places than there ever should have been.
“the higher city taxes”
You really think 50 bips of sales tax is making anyone’s decision? Property taxes are (generally) lower in the city for residential property.
“Would you rather have a SFH or a condo conversion duplex down for $400k?”
Apples and oranges for most here. And that isn’t what I’d call a great location. And 1.5 baths? That’s not an “updated” house, tho if the basement is full height, it’s a good one, I think.
Bob, the pricing on this house is serious progress forward. $399k homes like this haven’t existed in OIP since the late 90’s/early 00’s. Price your home in the sweet spot ($300-$400k) and sell in a few weeks.
Price in the $500’s like this nicer townhome and it sits for 337 days!! I’m going to encourage this seller to price it at $380k and it will sell very quickly.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3711-N-Milwaukee-Ave-60641/unit-6/home/18918881
“#Bob on August 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Your link above is hilarious–why is there a picnic table in that walk in closet?
Seriously though this was just someone buying a 250k house for 400k because we’re on the way down. Lets see what 400k gets in three years. My bet is more than one and a half baths.”
“Bob on August 17th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Bradford doesn’t like Mish..maybe the WSJ will placate him (likely not):”
wat.
Don’t get me confused with “Brad”.
“Price in the $500’s like this nicer townhome and it sits for 337 days!! I’m going to encourage this seller to price it at $380k and it will sell very quickly.”
Price it at $430 and it will prob. sell quickly–it’s all about FHA/Fannie/Freddie money.
Most about GSE money but not entirely. A townhome with granite countertops shouldn’t be worth more than a comparable sq ft SFH on a 33×100 ft lot in an arguably better location in the neighborhood. Head a little west into Portage Park and the foreclosures in the $100’s and $200’s are selling like johnny cakes.
“anon (tfo) on August 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“Price in the $500’s like this nicer townhome and it sits for 337 days!! I’m going to encourage this seller to price it at $380k and it will sell very quickly.”
Price it at $430 and it will prob. sell quickly–it’s all about FHA/Fannie/Freddie money.”
“A townhome with granite countertops shouldn’t be worth more than a comparable sq ft SFH on a 33×100 ft lot in an arguably better location in the neighborhood.”
Different market of buyers. But neither property is pricing in the discount for proximity to a school, esp. w/r/t the possibility of your kids not getting into Disney, even tho it’s next door.
And the house on Grace is on 45×100.
“The master bedroom has a 17×10 closet, which is bigger than most bedrooms we chatter about.”
This place probably doesn’t sound too bad to those who are living in a 17×10 studio…
To the future buyer: Rent out the closet and make a little extra $$$$$!
IIRC, the closet is “L” shaped and the realtor has taken the liberty of using the longest measurements, leaving the reader to imagine a rectangle that is 17×10. :-/
That video is no big deal…way overblown. Also, walking at broadway and wilson can be interesting….my buddy thinks he found a sage…
“That video is no big deal…way overblown”
LOL!
“walking at broadway and wilson can be interesting”
yes read the previous chatter about my terrible story walking in that exact location… hooray gang beatings!
Seriously — that video is terrifying! I live at Chicago and Damen — not exactly Lincoln Park either — but have never seen anything like that!
It reminds me of some of the bad areas in San Francisco — completely unpoliced, full of crazies, and more dangerous than anything I’ve experienced in Chicago (and I’ve lived in Logan, very close to Humboldt).
Michael, Chicago and Damen used to be like this minus the crazies, more gang activity on damen and many crack heads, but this area in uptown holds the titles for crazy’s
that video is hillarious, i dont even see a punch throw or a bottle land?
i have been in a few middle of the street 10 people or more brawls, i dont rememebr running back and forth, i rememebr everybody running at each other and then fist, legs, bottles, and anything else would be flying. once i was hit in the back of the head by those old chicago metal mesh garbage cans while i was pounding one guy in the face and kicking the other guy on the ground. the garbage can knocked me out!
I saw that video and I have also seen a lot of real-life action like that in the general area.
The Wilson/Sheridan/Leland area is another neighborhood hotpot. Trash everywhere, bums and thugs loitering and drinking without trying to hide the fact, and open drug dealing.
The corner of Wilson & Broadway is the only corner of this city where I have experienced problems (was assaulted by street bum)in 22 years in this city, and I walk around and ride trains a lot and at any hour I please.
10 years ago my roommate my roommate was on the red line when some crazy at the Wilson stop, IIRC, threw a garbage can at the train and it shattered the window sending glass all over her; but it’s like the windshield glass so she didn’t get cut up but it disturbed her. Somethings never change. 10 years of gentrification and the neighborhood is no different.
Speaking of the good ol’ “gentrified” Red line I was at a house party a few weeks ago and needed to take the red line to get back home after hours..youngins smoking Ze’s favorite on the subway and passed it to me.
I had to leave the car at that point..not that I’m against free stuff but I was carrying some on me at the time too and although a bit lit wasn’t a fool. Ahh the good ol’ Red line..ghetto fabulous.
my favorite part about the red line is peanut shells and half-eaten chicken bones everywhere.
> Don’t be so dismissive of things you don’t know or understand.
I know and understand.
my favorite part of the red line is the guy who talks like mike tyson and gives a speech about how he’s “trying to make the best of a bad situation”. Is he still around?
Russ: was the sock argyle?
@Sonies:
“Pied a Terre” is an old school phrase for a second home.
LOL – Uptown residents give Schiller some heat regarding how bad it’s gotten lately…
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1721448,CST-NWS-uptown18.article
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1721460,w-uptown-crime-video-joe-gray-081809.article
That 500K home from the link in the comment above is listed as under contract now, after 445 days. Wonder what it sold for?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3711-N-Milwaukee-Ave-60641/unit-6/home/18918881