Vintage Tudor Beauty in Peterson Woods Sells: 3019 W. Ardmore
As the Groove pointed out in the old post, this 3-bedroom tudor at 3019 W. Ardmore in Peterson Woods finally sold.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
It was an estate sale.
The house needed work but it had wonderful vintage bones including leaded glass, arched doorways, coved ceilings and the original kitchen and baths.
Built on a 45×192 oversized lot, it has a 2-car detached garage but no central air.
While many of you drooled over it, some of you felt that for the work that was needed to bring it into the current century, it would need to be priced well under the former list price.
One of you even suggested $200,000.
The house sold in February 2011 for $400,000.
Terry Silis at Baird & Warner had the listing.
3019 W. Ardmore: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- It is an estate sale- original sales price is before 1990
- Originally listed in August 2010
- Was listed in September 2010 for $489,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in November 2010 for $445,000
- Sold in February 2011 for $400,000
- Estate sale
- Taxes of $6759
- No central air
- Bedroom #1: 15×15
- Bedroom #2: 12×13
- Bedroom #3: 13×11
I will say if this was in a neighborhood *we wanted to live in, i would have long DIY project on my hands right now.
congrats to the new owners, and if you do anything to yuppie up or take away from its vintage charm…..I will be at your doorstep to pull each nose hair one by one while my son kicks your shins repeatedly.
good day, i say good day.
“if you do anything to yuppie up or take away from its vintage charm”
So, if they install a dishwasher, you’ll go after them? That kitchen has loads of “vintage charm” but vintage charm kitchens are a serious pain.
“One of you even suggested $200,000”
People on this website are ridiculous sometimes in their pessimism.
The kitchen has to be redone, but I would give a vintage homey maybe “country” look.
I am sorry but that bathroom is FLY.
Everything else should just be cleaned up.
1) I double checked to make sure it wasn’t me that made the $200k prediction (it wasn’t);
2) The comp from June that I listed was $470,000. This sold for $400,000. That’s a hefty 15% discount from the comp just a few months earlier.
3) The ‘comp’ immediately around the corner had one less bathroom and a 70′ shorter lot.
4) This is proof, rock solid proof, indisputable proof, incontrovertible evidence, that prices have fallen since June, and quite significantly I might add.
“So, if they install a dishwasher, you’ll go after them? That kitchen has loads of “vintage charm” but vintage charm kitchens are a serious pain.”
what you have a dishwasher you heathen (sp)!!
J/K, no i am talking about things like taking out the sconces and putting in track-lighting, or throwing a 50 inch above the fireplace when you clearly have another spot for it.
or painting the wooden french doors white. or putting pottery barn bamboo shades on those wonderful windows, etc.
“This is proof, rock solid proof, indisputable proof, incontrovertible evidence, that prices have fallen since June, and quite significantly I might add.”
Really? Without knowing *any*thing about the relative conditions of the houses? Maybe this place needs $75k worth of foundation work. and another $50k of brick repair.
Or the $470k comp buyer was a knucklehead who overpaid by $200k.
The only thing that is “indisputable” using only those two data points is that this house sold for less.
“throwing a 50 inch above the fireplace when you clearly have another spot for it.”
*clearly* the best spot is above the fireplace tho. That’s how everyone in LP does it, so it must be best.
“putting pottery barn bamboo shades on those wonderful windows”
Bamboo would be bad for lots of reasons, but what would get the Groove seal of approval?
Seems like a great home at a great price that just needed to find the right buyer willing to put in the work. Congrats to the buyers! The location isn’t awful either in my mind. Doesn’t take long to get down Peterson to LSD…
anon(tfo), it’s pretty compelling evidence. $470 for a smaller house on a smaller lot in June vs. $400 for a larger house on a much larger lot today?
We are witnessing the double dip in housing prices. History in the making.
And both homes obviously needed work. Based upon the evidence before us (without making any unreasonable and unnecessary assumptions about knuckleheads or undisclosed foundation work) – welcome to the double dip folks.
It was an estate sale HD, do you ever think before you type?
“*clearly* the best spot is above the fireplace tho. That’s how everyone in LP does it, so it must be best.”
which always surprised me as i see cribs in all the LP condos and i know with the kids i watched the fist days of march bracket on the floor “playing” with my kid. cant see how that would be possible if it was 6ft of the ground?
“but what would get the Groove seal of approval?”
purple and gold drapes of course!!! but seriously none if at all possible but i understand the need for privacy.
“pretty compelling evidence” sure, but “indisputable”? c’mon.
Today’s Todo List:
1) pick up dry cleaning
2) drop off recycling
3) breakin and mount a TV over fireplace at tudor in Peterson Wood
4) watch Groove go bananas
“if you do anything to yuppie up or take away from its vintage charm”
I am very much against violence, but Icarus if you do item 3, I might join forces with groove : )
Actually these guys should go our way and just not own a TV. Then they can use all the extra time they get to post on CC…hehe
I bought a house 4-5 months ago and a VERY similar house a block down the street with a slighly smaller lot sold for approximately $90k more 2 months ago. Is that indisputable proof that my neighborhood is experiencing a price rebound?
“Is that indisputable proof that my neighborhood is experiencing a price rebound?”
No, but it is pretty compelling evidence. Buy now or be priced out forever!
I didn’t see it in person, but I took the big photo tour on the computer and the larger photos seemed to maybe display some significant water damage which kind of worried me and made me think there might be more repair work than meets the eye. On the large photos, those beautiful doors were in reasonably bad shape, if I remember right. It’s a stunning place, though. Someone is lucky to have the money to buy it and renovate it. Good luck, have fun – new owners. Did you get to keep the piano, too? It seems you have the rare blessing from CC.
Not if they mounted a television above the fireplace. Then it is simply the awful specter of gentrification…
“Is that indisputable proof that my neighborhood is experiencing a price rebound?”
Do you? DO estate sales not count as comps?
“#Sonies on March 9th, 2011 at 10:07 am
It was an estate sale HD, do you ever think before you type?”
Chris M: You’re right, prices in your area are on the major rebound whereas they are dropping like a rock here. Before you know it, Peterson woods will be like Detroit and Oak Park will be like Gross Pointe.
comps don’t matter, you can get any appraiser to say whatever price you need to buy the place
and its not an exact comp by any means if its an estate sale where the sellers just want to get rid of it to the first person who wants the place
@miumiu don’t worry, i’m anti TV above fireplace myself.
I didn’t think this would happen but since buying new kitchen appliances, I don’t feel like moving anymore. I think I’ll disable all my RE searchbots
Go back and read Annie S’ contribution in last November’s comments. Apparently, the house needs significant work, which could explain the price difference.
“Apparently, the house needs significant work, which could explain the price difference.”
But the other one said in the listing that it needed a total gut, and we know that a realtor would never put anything misleading into a listing for any reason.
The house I bought at a 90k discount was an estate sale…yes, they can and do sell at a significant discount.
“3) breakin and mount a TV over fireplace at tudor in Peterson Wood
4) watch Groove go bananas”
Icarus,
i own a few louie slug’s one is my bedroom one in the umbrella bucket and one in the trunk in my car. your choice on which one you want me to bring with!
J/K 🙂
“Chris M: You’re right, prices in your area are on the major rebound whereas they are dropping like a rock here. Before you know it, Peterson woods will be like Detroit and Oak Park will be like Gross Pointe.”
I agree with others that this place undoubtedly needs a ton of work and that factored into the price. Although, in my opinion, this place was still overpriced at $400k.
“The house I bought at a 90k discount was an estate sale…yes, they can and do sell at a significant discount.”
And here is “indisputable proof” why lawyers/politicians shouldn’t be in charge of the country’s economic policies.
“I didn’t see it in person, but I took the big photo tour on the computer and the larger photos seemed to maybe display some significant water damage which kind of worried me and made me think there might be more repair work than meets the eye.”
i learned that sometimes heavy smokers makes stains that look like water damage in pictures. but who knows it is a place of disrepair water damage can easily be from the old windows too.
Here’s an example of an estate sale that’s priced substantially below market to get it moved fast: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/328-S-Kenilworth-Ave-60302/home/13270593
“But the other one said in the listing that it needed a total gut, and we know that a realtor would never put anything misleading into a listing for any reason”
Poppa Steve, good point about the previous poster, but you dont know if what she is saying is something she is repeating from a home inspector or a realtor or from her husband thats a weekend DIY’er.
i do hold weight to her comments though as i am under the assumption she was a true vintage lover/restorer as the average person wouldnt even go see this place for this price in this area. (its a beautiful pocket area but not for everyone)
even i wanted to schedule a showing or hit a open house but its out of my way and couldnt convince myself a good reason to go.
“Here’s an example of an estate sale that’s priced substantially below market to get it moved fast”
To me, whether that’s a good price or not depends almost entirely on the state of the wiring.
How many ‘below market’ sales does it take to make ‘below market’ the true state of the market? I’ve got client’s with a $500k house priced ‘at market’ and they ‘don’t want to give it away’; they would be willing to take the below market price of ‘$485,000’ if someone offered it today; and it’s been listed for 6 months now with no price reductions. They’ve already priced themselves into a Notice of Default and the foreclosure is coming. Maybe they’ll have to sell below market – they have plenty of equity.
“How many ‘below market’ sales does it take to make ‘below market’ the true state of the market?”
Let’s just agree that it’s more than 1 and less than all. In general, right now, reos and distressed sales are setting the market in most submarkets and are more than 50% of sales, so it’s probably save to think that is half the sales are “below market” that’s the real market.
“Here’s an example of an estate sale that’s priced substantially below market to get it moved fast: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/328-S-Kenilworth-Ave-60302/home/13270593”
For the smallish size and amount of work that needs to be done I’m not sure this is “substantially” below market at all. There are LOTS of houses in Oak Park now under $300k.
“There are LOTS of houses in Oak Park now under $300k.”
OK, I agree with anon(tfo) about the state of the mechanicals being a deciding factor, but find me a house in Oak Park listed under $300k that’s comparable in terms of location. I follow the market daily and it’s rare. Most of the sub-$300k properties in town are in the far NE or far SE corners of town.
“find me a house in Oak Park listed under $300k that’s comparable in terms of location.”
Yeah, not many. It’s a good and close to great location in OP.
605 S Oak Park Ave, an REO, at $335, was probably a better deal than that one, tho.
“605 S Oak Park Ave, an REO, at $335, was probably a better deal than that one, tho.”
Yeah, that was a pretty good deal, even though that’s a relatively busy street.
The problem i’ve seen in most places is a lack of supply of desirable places priced appropriately. The owners of the desirable homes generally know that their home is ‘desirable’ and they want a ridiculous premium. I’ve notice that these owners don’t even bother listing in this market because they know they won’t get the premium they want. Countless homes in the areas I watch over the last few years have been listed for 60 days, 90 day, then delisted, never to reappear again.
HD, you are contradicting yourself. If there is a lack of supply of properties that have the features/amenities that make them desirable, it means that the property will command a premium. That is basic supply and demand. Just because the crappy properties are selling at huge discounts doesn’t necessarily mean that the non-crappy properties should as well.
Sorry to interrupt the off topic, topic of conversation.
Just got off the phone with a buddy who works by this place, i had him drive by at lunch, he says there is a already work getting done on it.
He says he saw a dumpster in front on the street and two mexican-americans carrying debris out to it from the house.
for you vintage fans you should swing by and dumpster dive to see if you find any gems.
Russ, I dont think it’s a contradiction, it’s more of a standoff than a supply demand issue. If they want to list, but choose not too because they don’t like today’s prices, then supply is limited. So the houses that do sell, sell at a premium to the less desirable, but still not high enough to satisfy those who choose not to list today but want to sell. We all know that there has been plenty of properties listed and then delisted since 2008 as sellers wait for a better market to return.
Nearly half of all sales in Chicago are short sales, and sales volume has been depressed;
and
Only 1/3rd of all houses listed in Cook County in 2009 sold by mid-August 2010; and of all 2009 listed homes, only 5.9% of those were still actively listed.
Think about that: 67% of 2009 listed homes did not sell; and of that 67%, less than 10% of them were still listed as of August-2010.
That’s called a ‘stand off’.
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2010/08/16/redfin-less-than-half-of-all-home-sale-attempts-successful-in-09/
LP realtor recently told me that less than half their LP listings-under-contract are actually closing. Several “under contract” MLS listings that I’m following are not closed after 3+ months. Significant price concessions seen to obtain a quick closing.
This house needs work, but for caliber of this house and lot, $400,000 is doable price. Buyers probably intend to stay long-term and have three exceptional children who will out-smart CPS’s high-school applications to gain seats at NSP. Demographics of neighborhood are non-Green Zone, so coupled with good private school (Sacred Heart or Edgewater’s Montessori) it’s a strategy.
Realtors don’t want people to know that so many sales aren’t closing. They will do their best to keep this on the DL. I have heard similar stats on closings though – that less than 50% under contract actually close.
Do you think the issue is with the financing/appraisal, the inspection, or something else?
Isn’t financing, by and large, killing deals?
“find me a house in Oak Park listed under $300k that’s comparable in terms of location. I follow the market daily and it’s rare. Most of the sub-$300k properties in town are in the far NE or far SE corners of town.”
“Yeah, not many. It’s a good and close to great location in OP.”
I’ll agree most of the houses under $300k are in less desirable locations, but they are similar size and usually better shape. I would NOT call this a great location though. Who wants to live across from the middle school?
Chris–
For slightly less I’d rather be closer to the train and not by the middle school here:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/119-S-Euclid-Ave-60302/home/13268232
Or if you are willing to deal with being on a busy (for OP) street you can get much more space for the price at:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/901-N-East-Ave-60302/home/13272030
I like that Groove has a team of reporters set up to be dispatched immediately to catch breaking news on the CC featured postings.
Groove – I nominate you for an extra effort award today for outstanding achievement in producing good posts. You can pick up your trophy at Clio’s summer pool party this June in Oak Brook.
I see most deals failing because buyer and seller just can’t agree on anything. Buyer’s want everything to be perfect and seller doesn’t want to give anymore. Buyer’s walk and go find another home. Every purchase it seems like there are these long and drawn out negotiations over inspection issues. Much more so than I am used to seeing in the past.
Financing certainly is harder with condominiums, but it is getting rare that deals are falling apart due to the financing if the proper due diligence is done ahead of time (i.e., not waiting to the last minute to get the financing in order).
“I’ll agree most of the houses under $300k are in less desirable locations, but they are similar size and usually better shape. I would NOT call this a great location though. Who wants to live across from the middle school?”
In any event I’m interested to see what this sells for…it went under contract in less than a week.
I would like to thank the academy, for hosting this event, my parents for telling never quit, i would like to thank matt damon for his support and average movies, oh i almost forgot and my wife for letting me out of the house each day.
my buddy eats at panera every day so i just thought a few blocks wont hurt him, i didnt think he would get out of his car and walk into the back yard.
“I like that Groove has a team of reporters set up to be dispatched immediately to catch breaking news on the CC featured postings.
Groove – I nominate you for an extra effort award today for outstanding achievement in producing good posts. You can pick up your trophy at Clio’s summer pool party this June in Oak Brook.”
I’d go snag that sink – if it was the same green as my bathroom. I’d love a house like this, but that one in Oak Park is cute too with a nice Crown range.
Russ you are the voice of reason.
Wish I could have been the buyer, even if the location is a little out of the way.
I don’t believe I’d do a “country” kitchen, because this is not a country house. Instead, I’d study the early streamlined kitchens from the twenties and redo this nice old kitchen along the lines of the original, but with much more cabinet space and built in appliances. The architects were striving for a “modern” kitchen here, with traditional touches. It was really a great kitchen for the era, and it would look great completely redone in a “deco” style.
Should I say here that we wanted this house but didn’t get it?
Matt Damon is the new Kevin Bacon!
Twenties style simple kitchen with open upper shelves and streamlined appliances behind panels instead if stainless will be awesome. Good luck buyers.
congratulations to the new owners.
and groove,your’e really on a roll today.
I am glad someone picked this up and hope they keep all the vintage features. This is a very unique house close to the park and a nice lot. I wouldn’t call the demographics of Peterson Woods or Budlong Woods non-GZ. All you need to do is walk around the area and you can see that.
The demographics of Peterson Woods and Budlong Woods are absolutely different from GZ, and that’s why I like the area.
I can’t tell from the pictures, but are those 9 x 9 tiles in the kitchen? Hope not for the buyer’s sake. I don’t know this neighborhood, but this could be a beautiful home with a bit of work.
Beautiful except the bathroom. That sink & tub need to go. As for price unfamiliar with area.
“The demographics of Peterson Woods and Budlong Woods are absolutely different from GZ, and that’s why I like the area.”
I guess you need to define GZ. I agree its a great area. Nice streets, park, people.
“LP realtor recently told me that less than half their LP listings-under-contract are actually closing.”
I am seeing the same thing. It is taking FOREVER to close (on those deals actually going the distance.)
Well, I grew up in a house across the street from a school; my parents obviously thought it was cool to be able to send the kids across the street instead of having to drive, or frantically try to get them out of the house in time to walk or “bus” to school on time!
A far more serious issue affects this and other northwest-side neighborhoods: lack of easy access to rapid transit. Getting downtown means either a long drive, or long buis rides, or awkward bus/L or bus/Metra combos. Over the years several of my buyer clients would refuse to even look at these areas, regardless of the beauty of the houses, because of this factor.
“It is taking FOREVER to close (on those deals actually going the distance.)”
Sabrina, here’s what the mls data says about the days from contract to close for February closings (year/median days/ave days):
All Chicago Attached & Detached
2011 39 55
2010 39 65
2009 37 66
2008 36 88
2007 38 78
Lincoln Park Attached & Detached
2011 43 55
2010 43 54
2009 31 34
2008 45 82
2007 40 75
I live in the neighborhood and for the person claiming he paid 90,000 more for a house like that one in the area. I don’t want to call you a liar but I call that a misrepresentation of the truth. Nothing has sold in that are for $490,000 in the last 12 months. Some years ago the one next door sold for over $700,000. There is no other house like that one, it was custom built, one of a kind, I knew the previous owners, and it was built for his family when he was a young boy, and he passed away last year – in his 80.
It really was a beautiful home, still is. It needed someone with the ability to see how special the house is and the money to bring it back to what it used to be.
There have been five dumpsters taken out already; some of you purists are going to be sick to your stomach. The kitchen is gone, the green bathroom too. They are keeping the windows and the light fixtures. The radiators are gone; they are putting gas forced air heat and central air in. I would have saved the radiators and put space pack in. Heard from the neighbors the new buyer has done a lot of “rehabbing” in Lincoln Park, get ready for the Pottery Barn look.
Hey, they paid for it are going to keep some of the original charm, but they want to put in all new water lines, totally new electric, were afraid the old wiring was a fire waiting to happen, and they just couldn’t live with that kitchen.
Half the trees are gone from the back, it was like a forest. They will spend over $250,000; they can do whatever they want.
It’s a great house, in a wonderful neighborhood, Chicago Magazine and The Tribune has referred to Peterson Woods as a “Hidden Jewel”. Wish I could have bought it.
I congratulate the new owner and wish him the best. Only time will tell if the television ends up over the fireplace – probably.
The piano did stay!
“A far more serious issue affects this and other northwest-side neighborhoods: lack of easy access to rapid transit.”
It must be my age, but a 5 minute drive or 10 minute bus to the L wasn’t a hardship in my day. You are dealing with a different generation.
G, that is data for the places that DID close….there are many that I am seeing too that just seem to be not closing at all. My guess is we’ll see lots of them back on the market as people get sick of waiting….
See, they shoulda sold it to me. Unfortunately, couldn’t offer 400k like this purported LPer.
LoveVintage- thanks for the update. I’m sad to see some of those vintage features get torn out in the name of “progress.” Many people would kill to have that authentic bathroom (but I don’t know the condition of the tiles.)
Sabrina, here’s what the mls data says about the days from contract to close for February closings (year/median days/ave days):
All Chicago Attached & Detached
2011 39 55
2010 39 65
2009 37 66
2008 36 88
2007 38 78
Lincoln Park Attached & Detached
2011 43 55
2010 43 54
2009 31 34
2008 45 82
2007 40 75
Thanks for the data G. So maybe it’s all in my mind (which is possible.) Or it’s just a few particular properties I’ve been waiting for a closing price on that have been pending for seemingly months now.
Rehabber? Is this going to be a flip?
Love Vintage,
Thanks for the update! given i would rather not heard the bad news and just imagined the new owner restoring everything to exactly the way it was.
“Heard from the neighbors the new buyer has done a lot of “rehabbing” in Lincoln Park, get ready for the Pottery Barn look.”
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, [breath], NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
“The kitchen is gone, the green bathroom too.”
i kind of figure the kitchen would go, but the bathroom….
…NOOOOOOOOOO000OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, [breath], NOOOoOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i wish they kept the radiators too and just ran ducts from the attic for the C/A and put in a HE boiler/radiator
I agree Budlong woods and Peterson woods are hidden gems,
all i have to say to the new owners is my tweezers and son’s foot are awaiting the finished product.
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10127#comment-137126
That’s a shame. It’s too bad they couldn’t have purchased a house that had already been “remuddled” for their rehab project…homes in such original condition are increasingly difficult to find.
Hey HomeDelete,
This might not be your style, but what do you think of http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4825-W-Winnemac-Ave-60630/home/13496495
At $215k, it seems like a great deal for a nice rehabbed bungalow on the NW side. Plus it’s close to the expressway for your commute and is in the Beaubien school district boundaries.
Groove, do you approve?
Oh Groove, I feel your pain, I liked the bathroom too!
I also like radiators. They are so cute and old school.
“At $215k, it seems like a great deal for a nice rehabbed bungalow on the NW side.”
That’s about what those should cost in updated condition. The wildcard is how updated the electrical actually is and the age/condition of the boiler.
I do like it Chris M and it seems like a deal, where prices need to be heading. The only thing this prop is missing is that I need to walking distance from the Metra or the El. Maybe I’m looking for a unicorn, I don’t know. I don’t think I am. I can spend a little more than $215,000 but thanks for the link. I appreciate it, I’ve actually never considered looking at that neighborhoods.
Forest Glen train station is 1/2 a mile away (in the opposite direction of downtown, which I know some people don’t like).
Does anyone have info on Beaubien? I’ve seen it score well in CPS rankings but don’t know much else about it.
“The only thing this prop is missing is that I need to walking distance from the Metra or the El.”
Half a mile is too far? Forest Park Metra is a bit over half a mile. If you were just on the other side of the tracks (near Leclaire), you’d be much closer to Metra and reasonably close to the JPark blue line.
Chris M:
Here’s something more up my alley: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6200-N-Mandell-Ave-60646/home/13511264
knock a little more off the price and it’s were I need to be. Walk to the metra, edgebrook school district, close to peterson on-ramp, in the old edgebrook neighborhood, surrounded by forest preserve. It needs a little more off the price though….and I’m not willing to sit through a short sale, and I want to wait a little longer, I at least want to wait out this double dip that is happening right now. No sense buying during the dip, i’m just going to wait until it’s over.
“Groove, do you approve?”
it is HD approved!
i would rather be three blocks west as the blocks closer to cicero are a bit grimey. but this place is walking distance to superkmart!
“I also like radiators. They are so cute and old school.”
muimui radiators are healthier and done right more efficient!
Beaubein is still over 50% low income, which according to anon(Tfo) is the tipping point or indicator if a school is ‘turning’.
http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?unit=2240
HD,
SHHHHHHHH i warned DZ about keeping old edgebrook hush hush. we dont need fricken yuppies funking up that spot!!!!!
And they don’t make the noise of fan kicking in which I hate. Sometimes they make a little adorable ding ding sound. I have one in one of my offices and I like that office much more than the fancy one with central air. Also I like leaning on one and feeling the direct heat on a cold day.
“Beaubein is still over 50% low income, which according to anon(Tfo) is the tipping point or indicator if a school is ‘turning’. ”
Turned. Find me an Elem that’s below 50% low income (with a three year trend lower or under 40% and stable) that’s not considered acceptable.
It’s a half a mile up elston. I guess it’s do able, and for a decent price but just not quite what I’m looking for.
Here’s what I”m looking for:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6136-N-Lenox-Ave-60646/home/13513155
Chop a little more off that ‘short sale’ price. I know it’s a little farther from the edgebrook metra than the other property on winnemac but it’s also a nicer home. When all these start reaching into the mid-to-high 300’s then I’ll be up in there. but not until they all are mostly selling in that price range.
“Turned. Find me an Elem that’s below 50% low income (with a three year trend lower or under 40% and stable) that’s not considered acceptable.”
Dever Elem School
here you go HD
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6313-W-Peterson-Ave-60646/home/13511574
or this hd,
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5757-N-West-Circle-Ave-60631/home/13508920
you missed out on this one, (buy now or be priced out forever)
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6230-N-Le-Mai-Ave-60646/home/13513353
“Dever Elem School”
Has it been trending down?
Looks like ’09 was 42%, now it’s 48%. Neighborhood rep is that it’s slipping, isn’t it?
I’ll look at those properties more closely when I get out of my meeting. THanks
““Turned. Find me an Elem that’s below 50% low income (with a three year trend lower or under 40% and stable) that’s not considered acceptable.”
Dever Elem School
Canty Elem
but its all subjective to what you consider acceptable
OT: HD: you might want to review 101 N. Broadway in Park Ridge that’s for sale on MLS. Also check out the ccrd: 09 27 423 006 0000
““Dever Elem School”
Has it been trending down?
Looks like ‘09 was 42%, now it’s 48%. Neighborhood rep is that it’s slipping, isn’t it?”
way back when it bussed kids in it was a good school but you are correct its already has slipped.
and i will bet to say the numbers after this year it will be at 50% low income.
but a 42 to 48 to 50 is i guess a stable trend?
“Canty Elem”
Another one w/ higher low-income this year than in ’09.
“Another one w/ higher low-income this year than in ‘09”
are there any school trending lower? i assumed all CPS’s are swaying into higher low income %’s?
“are there any school trending lower? i assumed all CPS’s are swaying into higher low income %’s?”
I can’t find the right link right now, but yeah, there are several trending lower–they’re the ones filling up with neighborhood kids on the northside east of the river.
Dan: the broadway house is pretty nice. The outside is so so but the inside is something I could see living in. The price is a bit outside of my price range. I like the $300-$400k price range, with a 20% down payment and a $100k+ HH income I want to buy financially. I could probably do a little better than that but I also like to a little bit of a lifestyle instead of being house rich, cash poor.
I like this little cape code that was just listed as a short sale. It needs some work (which I’m OK with), walk to the metra and the highway is 5 or 7 minutes down cumberland.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/202-N-Chester-Ave-60068/home/13649435
5757 N WEST CIRCLE Ave
Groove:
I like this house, a lot. I like the 50’s ranches, the midcentury moderns, and interestingly enough, victorians.
I especially like that straight line modern furniture would fit into the house quite easily and not look out of place. But the price is out of my range. The owners have been chasing the market down for almost two years now. I wonder how serious they are about selling. There’s almost no mortgage on the property so there’s no reason to hole out. Some boomer with a paid off house trying to recoup his retirement from the poorer younger generation. Remember, 80 million boomers trying to sell to 65 mil Gen X/Y all of whom are poorer, in debt and pensionless.
6313 W Peterson Ave
way too overpriced and only 1,000 sq ft. too small. ergh.
6230 N LE MAI Ave
Nice home, not my style, good district, near forest preseve, golf course, edgebrook school, near highway and metra. A bit out of my price range.
Really – is EVERY school with over 50% low-income students AUTOMATICALLY “unacceptable?” Like family income is the ONLY indicator of a child’s potential for academic/social success?
“Really – is EVERY school with over 50% low-income students AUTOMATICALLY “unacceptable?” ”
No. And the reverse isn’t true, either, as Groove showed. But look at a list of CPS elems ranked by their low-income % and compare it to a list of the “desirable” CPS elems. There’s a rather large overlap.
ChiTownGal: Why rail against a metric? It’s a handy yardstick to begin your basis for investigation. Sort of like starting with looking at the P/E ratio for a stock, or the amount of sugar in a drink. Neither stat will tell you 100% if said item will be ‘good’ for you, but a great way for filtering out noise.
Oh, and I skipped right past this:
“Like family income is the ONLY indicator of a child’s potential for academic/social success?”
HUGE correlation. In study after study.
“Like family income is the ONLY indicator of a child’s potential for academic/social success?”
Curious…how do the studies factor one parent leaving job by choice to stay at home with kid(s)? Household income potential hasn’t changed but actual income is obviously lower. Is the correlation between potential or actual income?
““Like family income is the ONLY indicator of a child’s potential for academic/social success?”
HUGE correlation. In study after study.”
Chitowngirlie,
look at it like this its playing averages than using the exception to the rule.
i would rather play towards favorable numbers than hope to get a jewel in a mound of elephant dung
“Is the correlation between potential or actual income?”
IIRC it’s actual income. There’s also a strong correlation between parental educational levels and childrens educational success.
“5757 N WEST CIRCLE Ave
Groove:
I like this house, a lot. I like the 50’s ranches”
yes they have been chasing the market down, i think at one point it was litsed at 799k. but you get a huge interior living and sleep broke up pefectly a chicago rarity and ATTACHED GARAGE and a extremely private yard. you are though on a street that gets the traffic from harlem into the hood.
“6313 W Peterson Ave
way too overpriced and only 1,000 sq ft. too small. ergh.”
if the basement was finished i would say the 15% off list would be perfect. when we looked at it it was a solid home and the “upgrades” were done with quality. still needs more upgrades
“6230 N LE MAI Ave A bit out of my price range”
you staying below the 400 range? are you willing to up to 450k for the perfect home?
“I can’t find the right link right now, but yeah, there are several trending lower–they’re the ones filling up with neighborhood kids on the northside east of the river.”
if you find the link please forward it, its a pain to enter each school into the il report card thing.
That georgian is not the perfect home. !
“6230 N LE MAI Ave A bit out of my price range”
you staying below the 400 range? are you willing to up to 450k for the perfect home?
I once read an article that despite what most women think, working women’s children fare better in college attendence (of course the comparison was among women of similar education levels). I thought that was very interesting.
There is also a strong correlation between neighborhood demographics and children’s educational success.
Wisconsin gets the 2nd highest SAT/ACT scores of any state, and laughably they’re trying to correlate this to the work of the teachers union, when it really correlates to demographics. a state’s or school’s ‘average ACT/SAT’ is, for all intents and purposes, a proxy for the percent of white people who live there.
That’s why the rural hicks/rednecks in Wisconsin or some downstate IL County outscore the students in the District of Columbia or CPS despite the latter having more money spent per pupil and far more access to culture, opportunity, libraries, universities, etc.
“That georgian is not the perfect home.”
I dont think so at all either, i was just saying for *your perfect home would be willing to bump your threshold?
for me this ardmore place on a norwood lot at 370k would be grooves nirvana.
maybe for you
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6239-N-Lundy-Ave-60646/home/26319509
at 600k might be your boner maker.
just trying to grab hold of the HD mentality and price point
Jeez louise, Groove. You love norwood. My mentality is a $300k to $400k house (or less if dated); in a nice area, walking distance from metra or el, preferably a decent school, 3 beds, 2 baths, I can finish out the basement later. LIke I said that’s what is about affordable for a $100k+ HH income, wiht student loans, daycare, other debt, etc and 20% down, within conforming 28/36 limits. Like I said back out student loans and daycare and it’s more like 18/26…you know, than middle class, not quite upper middle, more like 75% class. The bubble put everything out of whack and a house on the NW side that was $200k 10 yaers ago is now $350k and the $350k house 10 years ago (what I want to buy today) is now $500 or more. But prices are coming back to earth but slowly. That’s my mentality, I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
Dan
All the more reason for you to move downstate and leave us alone…
The cape cod chester house in Park Ridge is nice. Lower the price a little bit in the short sale, paint, redo the kitchen, rip out the paneling, finish out the basement. It’s got a lot, a car, 1,400 sq ft w/ a finished basement is all I need (I hate cleaning anything more on weekends), walk to the metra, 5-7 mins to the highway, great school district, one car garage, a yard, good area, walk down town park ridge. That’s all I need, call me crazy, or absurd, or unrealistic, I don’t care.
oh noes dahlia.
HD – I can see why you believe that homes are still very overpriced. All those houses suck for the $$$
NW side needs a slap in the face back to reality
All those houses do suck for the $$$ Sonies, you and i agree on something.
“Jeez louise, Groove. You love norwood.”
just like you love OIP and on ramps 🙂
but i hear you on the bubble mucking up the NW side. we lost alot of good Greek, Italian, Irish, Pureto Rican, and Mexican familys to them selling at a high appreciation and splitting to the burbs.
I am void of daycare and student loans, but my home search price range is a the same as yours. funny huh?
I dont need the metra or El lines i do like to be nearish to expressways to visit family, friends and other attractions. So Galewood has always been on my radar and its home prices and taxes afford me private school because i am not sold on sayre elem yet.
you are not asking for the golden unicorn i believe, and i bet this summer you will find a few places that almost meet your list, but i know it wont be in OIP rather in the other areas WE (us in the know) like.
Groove: OIP will eventually have something reasonable. There are something like 30 homes priced $400k above right now and only a handful of them have sold in the last year. It’s pretty damn close to frozen, it’s scary. Prices will drop when the foreclosure and short sales start hitting in full force (And they’ll be coming soon enough) and then I’ll swoop in…but by then, it’ll probably be too late and I’ll have a 50’s ranch in park ridge so I dont’ hvae to pay for the private catholic elementary school. boo to the suburbs, i dont’ want to move there, but when a two story bungalow like this is listed for $837,000, well, it’s going to be a long wait for prices to fall, longer than I want to wait.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3814-N-Kedvale-Ave-60641/home/13458488
hd – we agree more than you think, but posting that “I agree” is boring and lacks drama!
dahliachi: No, there are still areas in Chicagoland where self-segregation reins supreme without apology, i.e. Deerfield, Buffalo Grove, Northbrook, Glencoe, Highland Park, etc. Those aren’t to my taste, but there are plenty of other areas incl. the GZ where people can find high test score schools, it’s easy, just look at demographic info first!
“All the more reason for you to move downstate and leave us alone…”
“Groove: OIP will eventually have something reasonable. There are something like 30 homes priced $400k above right now and only a handful of them have sold in the last year. ”
i have fam in Mayfair, and fam the recently moved out of mayfair in 2005. I dont even see that area going down in correlation with the way it should be. OIP/Mayfair are holding its only the old timers that have passed or going into “care” that are selling at almost reasonable prices.
we almost bought the victorian in 2005 from my fam in mayfair but they got offers over list and we were under list BY MUCHO. they still would have sold to me for our price cuz its fam but it was a lot of money for them to pass up and i couldnt live with that.
HD,
look at this home
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6330-N-Indian-Rd-60646/home/13511911
this may be outing me but hey, we threw two low azz offers at it. none stuck and may have offended as communication was sloooooooow after the first offer. we just saw to much updating in vital areas where living and having it down were not fun.
we were out bid as you can see, and from what i was told out bid by others too.
dont get me started HD, on what the bubble did to wonderful portage and dunning.
dont get me started!!
That’s a nice home groove, very nice curb appeal. It does need updating, like ripping up carpet, fixing that nasty couch in the kitchen, the wallpaper in the dining room would have to go. but it’s a nice wide lot on a golf course, no alley. the only other catch is the 1.5 bath. was the full bathroom upstairs or downstairs? SOme of those old houses can be weird like that.
How low did you bid?
Generally more than 10% off is a low ball offer and they get offended. The final selling price was a little less than 10% off the final list.
Sorry I misunderstood you Dan. Yes I agree that all of the areas yyou mentioned have a high percentage of wealthy, well educated parents so high test scores are no surprise.
FYI you and “your kind” are actually in the majority in all of the suburbs you mentioned although perhaps too many “others” for your personal comfort level.
groove,thats like 2 blocks from me…super nice and quiet area.price seems ok too.theres another one for sale over there on miami,real cheap,needs a complete rehab though.good luck.
Groove and HD–
“maybe for you
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6239-N-Lundy-Ave-60646/home/26319509
at 600k might be your boner maker.”
What do you think of:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6203-N-Lundy-Ave-60646/home/13513498/mred-07638351
At its sale price?
HomeDelete,
like i said communications went south after our first feeler, it was really low. our agent a calm and understanding professional tried to persuade us not to go that route.
but once we explained we are going the “throw out a bunch of lowball offers and hope one sticks” route our agent advised against it but was on board after a little more explaining of our situation and where our mindset was coming from.
i can give a flying f**k if i offend, look like i ignorant prick, hurt their feelings, blacklist myself.
I am not trying to win a miss congeniality award, person of the year award, or be buddies after.
if your asking me to part with my hard earned money for the next 30 years, i am going to get the best damn deal i can, no ifs ands or buts.
if the seller wants a hug after i will accommodate and even break out the cashmere sweater for a soft warm hug, but if they want more than i am willing to pay i will wear my rockports and walk away comfortably.
HD as you know i have options, and sadly way more options than the sellers. they have a product they need to sell, and i dont *need to buy plus i have many other products to choose from and i have time on my hands.
will we miss out on places that we really love and want, YES. did i really want this place, YES. did i have second thoughts on my strategy, YES.
“fixing that nasty couch in the kitchen, the wallpaper in the dining room would have to go. but it’s a nice wide lot on a golf course, no alley. the only other catch is the 1.5 bath. was the full bathroom upstairs or downstairs? SOme of those old houses can be weird like that.”
there is an alley, and the garage is turned 90 degrees (opens to the side), you have a brick paved parking pad and 2 car garage! there is no street so no traffic in front and the alley has hardly any traffic only used for the 8 houses on the block.
the wall paper in the dining room would have stayed (we love the old school look of thanksgiving at grandma’s) the bench/couch in the kitchen worked well with the space.
there was a full bath upstairs, but oddly small given the upstairs room sizes.
it was 100% livable and in good darn shape.
it needed tuckpointing ASAP and the kitchen was in need of a update and the bathroom needed an updated. roof was good but a tear off most likely needed in about 7 years.
the bathroom would need to be expanded or a second put in which would eat some of the bedroom sizes (which could be spared) but i couldnt tell if it would be a structural headache or not.
for me dealing with a bathroom remodel when there is only one full bath and then a kitchen remodel a few years later and tuckpointing right away. the hassle and inconvenience was not worth the price *for us.
for others with cash and patience it is the perfect home.
“theres another one for sale over there on miami,real cheap,needs a complete rehab though.good luck”
you talking about the bungalow, from what i remember it needs extensive work and now golf course view.
anything with major work wont hit my radar, groove is too old and no time to deal with major reno.
its a wonderful area and indian park is awesome since they updated the playground.
hey did you ever hop the fence and grab a dog at the golf course? always wonder if they serve the neighbors?
yeah,the bungalow.i think it was 200k but it needs a complete rehab.it may have recently sold.
and,no,i don’t think they serve neighbors,but it might be worth a try.
“anything with major work wont hit my radar, groove is too old and no time to deal with major reno.”
dude, you are younger than I am (41). if you find a place you like, and the numbers make sense, take a chance.
“anything with major work wont hit my radar, groove is too old and no time to deal with major reno.”
The Groove is not unusual. No one wants to do anything in this market. They want to move right in and have the granite, stainless and new kitchen cabinets. They want the bathrooms updated and they want central air. They would rather pay $400k to get all of that then pay $350k and get something that is a “fixer”.
Let’s be honest- most people don’t have the cash on hand after purchasing to do renovations. And, for most people, even if they do life usually gets in the way. So they move in and 5 years later the old bathroom is STILL there.
That’s why, especially in the suburbs, but even in Logan Square, Portage Park and Avondale, those flips where the renovator bought the foreclosure and fixed it up sell quickly. People want all shiny and new. They don’t want to “take a chance” and fix it up. They’re too busy. Spouses are working. They don’t have $50k sitting around. The kids have soccer, basketball, choir and whatever else.
Oh- I also heard that this house is NOT going to be flipped. The new owners are going to live there.
You have an interesting point Sabrina about people not having cash at hand.
In our case, I feel it is more that I already have a bit of cold feet so the place better makes us fall in love with it. This way one might say ok I might lose some cash on it, but I love living there so much.
It is hard to make people fall in love with over-mount sinks, cheap fake countertops, etc… specially for 500K plus properties. At height of the bubble, people had a different mindset. They thought this is an investment and they were less inclined to have the same demand.
An agent once told me that 95% of buyers do not have “vision”- which means they cannot see beyond what is already there in the property. So if it has cheap counter tops, black appliances (or heaven forbid, avocado or some other 1970s color), or dated bathrooms, or carpet (when they want hardwood floors)- they will NOT be able to see beyond it. Even for a cheap price.
So that ties into your “falling in love” with it miumiu.
Now more than ever- people have to see themselves living there (and hopefully for a long, long time.)
But- the extra cash sitting around definitely factors in as well. If the bank is already making you put down more money- who has another $25k or maybe even $100k to put into a property? They don’t. And these are the ones that I see languishing. ESPECIALLY if they are NOT foreclosures and super cheap (wherein a renovator/flipper will then come in to fix up the property.) If it is simply $50k under the 2005 purchase price but needs a ton of work- it likely won’t sell.
Yes I agree that majority of the buyers are short in cash and your point is valid for them. But the buyers that have cash I still disagree with what the agent says. If the seller discounts the property enough then most buyers will fix it up provided they have the cash (this is where your point comes in).
The problem is most sellers have difficulty reducing the price and factoring in that people don’t want to buy 500K properties with dated kitchens and bath. I gave you an example a while back about a condo that was purchased at 2009 for 520K and the seller was not going to sell it below 500K. The bathrooms and the kitchen needed updating (it did not even have SS appliances!). If they were selling it for 450K, then I bet people would buy and upgrade to their taste.
“Census tidbits: The U.S. Census Bureau and the Department of Housing and Urban Development just updated their data on the housing market in the Chicago area, based on the 2009 American Housing Survey. Local homeowners in 2009 paid a median of $1,479 in monthly housing costs, compared with $895 for renters. The data also showed that 25 percent of area homeowners did not have a mortgage”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/ct-mre-0313-podmolik-home-front-20110311,0,1652053.column?obref=obinsite
We’ve always assumed it’s 50% of homeowners are mortgage free but I guess that’s not true.
Most sellers don’t have money to rehab when they buy. Most rehabbing was done with 2nd mortgages during the boom but that funding has mostly dried up. Which explains why most carpenters and contractors are out of work or hurting. The REO houses that need upgrading sell for a significant discount and usually to investors with the funds to rehab.
“We’ve always assumed it’s 50% of homeowners are mortgage free but I guess that’s not true.”
It makes sense that it’s lower here than the national average as there are few additions from retirees as people generally don’t move to the midwest and retirees have the most money as a demographic.
IIRC the national state is ~45% of homes owned free & clear..wasn’t expecting that much of a disparity.
People got buried in debt up to their eyeballs during the boom and it’s going to take years if not decades to repair the damage.
“Most sellers don’t have money to rehab when they buy. Most rehabbing was done with 2nd mortgages during the boom but that funding has mostly dried up. ”
Yep. it might be my imagination but it seems like the HD/Lowes/Menards/HOBO type stores are having hugh discount sales on just the basic, essential items to improve a pad for the long haul –as if they too stocked up during the boom anticipating owners would use their homes as ATMS, and come over and by overpriced cabinet handles.
Is it tough to get a rehab loan if you are planning to live in the place after purchase? I haven’t applied for one and the two real estate agent friends that I’ve spoken with both made it seem easier than what I imagined.
They were describing the process as:
*Identify property
*Get approved for construction loan based on bid/project plan to rehab place
*Loan can be up to 80% of future appraised value
*Loan starts incurring interest but you don’t pay on it until construction completes.
Seems like a great way of tackling the financing to get a firm to rehab for you.
“dude, you are younger than I am (41). if you find a place you like, and the numbers make sense, take a chance”
Icarus i am almost there in age 🙂 but remember i do most of the work myself,
i have a hard time paying someone triple or more the cost for what i can do myself. even if time is a constraint (time=money) still paying a GC or a “guy” to do it isnt even worth the premium.
“The Groove is not unusual. No one wants to do anything in this market. They want to move right in and have the granite, stainless and new kitchen cabinets. They want the bathrooms updated and they want central air. They would rather pay $400k to get all of that then pay $350k and get something that is a “fixer”.”
I wouldnt mind a place that need a kitchen OR a bath upgrade, just dont want BOTH. i dont mind cosmetic of “off” or nonessential room upgrades.
you have to remember in the sub 500k home category buyers they are not giving the keys to a GC going on a two week vacation and coming back to a new kitchen, bath and finished basement. It will be a kitchen job while living there that will be done by a “guy” or cousin which will take 4-5 weeks or a three month weekend warrior. then after that war zone for two months take a break then repeat on the bath lather rinse repeat on the basement, lather rinse repeat on the back deck, lather rinse repeat on the family room, lather rinse repeat on the roof, lather rinse repeat on the siding or tuck pointing, lather rinse repeat on the windows
so you see where i am going, who really wants to deal with the constant inconvenience and troubles when you can just get a “done” place?
if i was in my 20’s with no kids, wifey and i would take on another project in a heartbeat. we did it once, it was fun, a great experience and we have such pride in our home (you can see now why we wont sell it)
“IIRC the national state is ~45% of homes owned free & clear”
You don’t recall correctly–number is around 1/3, and has been thru the boom. Story from ’08, discussing ’07 number of a little under 1/3: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-25-million-us-households-feel-no-mortgage-pinch
“We’ve always assumed it’s 50% of homeowners are mortgage free”
Got a mouse in your pocket HD?
Update on Peterson Woods!
The steal the buyer was able to get on that Vintage Tudor was not proof the market was going down! It was just proof of a smart buyer, seeing a deal and acting on it. Not playing games and tossing enough on the wall hoping something will stick and wasting your agents time and all others involved – like the idiot blogger.
A much smaller bungalow on Virginia sold above 400K
There’s a sale Pending on Sacramento over $500K for a yellow bungalow, that’s very nicely decorated, but can’t hold a candle to Ardmore ever!
There are others, half of you don’t know what you are talking about.
You have an audience, so you feel a need to show your ignorance.
The Ardmore house is till a work in progress, the kitchen was expanded, basement dug down a couple of feet, new bathrooms, attic space is now part of the living space.
The garden is piles of dirt and cut down trees.
Expected move in date??
The old lead has been removed from beautiful windows and replaced with new. Total tuck-pointing, chimneys rebuilt, anti flood system installed.
Easily has put over 250,000 in already, there are workers there every day of the week.
It will be a show place. And when the market rebounds he will be sitting pretty, the house will be worth close to a million.
“When the market rebounds he will be sitting pretty, the house will be worth close to a million.”
Really?
When will the market “rebound”?
10 years? 20 years?
Why will this little house be worth that much in this neighborhood when they can’t even sell the Keck & Keck architecturally significant house a few blocks to the south for the last 3 years (and that’s listed at a million on a large lot)?
When was the last time ANY house in this neighborhood has sold for a million? (if EVER?)
Everything else in this neighborhood is selling for $400k to $500k.
You know what they say- never overrenovate your house for more than the neighborhood can handle.
I agree with Mary Contrary 100% – except for the part about the house being a million dollars when the market rebounds.
@ Mary, so you have a few examples of houses sold and you use that as evidence that market is not going down, yet you seem to IGNORE all the houses sitting and sitting on the market for ever and lowering their prices chasing the market down always a bit behind though.
I think everyone can see who is the ignorant person here.
“It was just proof of a smart buyer, seeing a deal and acting on it. Not playing games and tossing enough on the wall hoping something will stick and wasting your agents time and all others involved – like the idiot blogger.”
Hmm dunno Mary Contrary. You’re the one trying to stick it out in a profession where volume is tanking and margins are under threat via discounting. I’d guess Sabrina has a more stable and growing stream than you. Making you much like the Aral sea fishermen: ostriches in denial as to the changing environment. Idiots indeed.
But you better hope the market rebounds big time Mary I have a hunch your personal financial situation not only hopes for it but very much depends on it. Definitely would _not want to be you_ these days. 😀
Mary, it is a great deal if they love the home, can afford it and love the place. It is not a good deal if they plan to flip it, as it will be a long time before this place is ever worth a million. I certainly hope the sellers love the home and their renovations and get lots of enjoyment out of them because I doubt they’ll get their money back. However, luckily that is not why most people buy and fix up homes, but instead to enjoy them. People on here aren’t idiots, they just look at the houses often financially rather than as someone’s home that they will live in and enjoy which is often worth some $$ in of itself.
The amount of information Mary Contrary has makes me suspect its either a nosy neighbor, the contractor, or the owner who’s trying to justify the money pit they bought.
Newsflash: Peterson Woods is not Lincoln Park, nor will it ever be.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1625-N-Honore-St-60622/home/13354917
STEAL
Anonemoose, I was guessing owner or a relative…
@ HD, that stove rocks!
Now that is a chef’s kitchen.