Wicker Park Single Family Home With Multiple Offers Closed Above the 2005 Price: 1322 N. Oakley
We chattered about this 4-bedroom house at 1322 N. Oakley with a rooftop deck in Wicker Park just a month ago.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
It had multiple offers and went under contract within 6 days. It closed for $60,000 over the 2005 purchase price.
The home, built in 1893, has central air and a two car garage. Three of the bedrooms are on the second level.
Is it a sign that life is returning to the housing market?
Mario Greco at Prudential Rubloff had the listing.
1322 N. Oakley: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in May 1994 for $105,000
- Sold in March 1996 for $234,500
- Sold in May 2000 for $100,000 (?)
- Sold in October 2001 for $460,000
- Sold in July 2005 for $650,000
- Originally listed in September 2009 for $699,000
- Increased
- Was listed in October 2009 for $719,000
- Under contract in 6 days
- Sold in October 2009 for $710,000
- Taxes of $7057
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 19×12
- Bedroom #2: 16×10
- Bedroom #3: 11×10
- Bedroom #4: 15×11 (lower level)
This is a nice, well priced home in a good neighborhood. Not suprising that it had multiple offers. There are plenty of buyers in the mid market, but most inventory is grossly overpriced. Price it right and it will sell.
I hate when they don’t list sq.ft. I makes it hard to figure out that all important dollars per sq.ft.
Its a beautiful home,
as for me i just dont get it, i dont get why a person, other than a doctor (or person that works at st. Mary’s) or a hard core boricua, would pay 700k for the area? i guess i am lame/out-of-touch/square cause i am not getting it?
Only in Chicago can you have a nice, expensive home in a great area, yet be stuck with a high school like Clemente. The $700’s in Park Ridge buys this http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1816-Courtland-Ave-60068/home/13563184 and gives access to Hillary Clinton’s graduating high school, Maine South.
Groove,
It’s a SFH in a trendy area, walking distance from the North/Damen/Milwaukee intersections, lots of great places to eat, some places to shop, close to the highway, close to western (a decent N/S access street); I gotta admit it would be a pretty fun place to live, but, there are plenty of two incomed households with a bit of money to throw around, and have no reservations about paying large monthly housing payments, they think it’s just a fact of life that PITI for their lifestyle/prestige/whatever costs $3,500 or more, so they pay it.
Well, not everyone. An MD recently bought a SFH in my ‘hood. They paid in the $300’s. A bonafide MD. In the $300’s. Amazing – not everyone with money feels the need to spend every last dime of net income on housing.
HD:
Your “comp” also gives access to 100+ airplanes flying just over your head every. single. day. Apparently I can’t log in to RedFin to check out the listing, but it says it only has 1 bathroom, 1117 sqft, and last sold for $390K in 2007?
great house, reasonable price. Groove…you should spend some more time exploring …while this isnt the best street (too close to western and the hospital), the overall neighborhood is great. I agree with HD…it makes no sense that expensive high tax paying areas have such awful schools. There are a few good magnet schools around this area, but overall, your kids will probably have to go to private school. Its a shame.
ChiGuy, do you really think I would list a comparison (not a comp) that crappy? It’s a new construction home in Park Ridge in a nice residential area. No Wicker Park of course but I was highlighting the differences in what high school access $700k buys.
Beds: 4
Baths: 3.5
Sq. Ft.: 3,000
$/Sq. Ft.: $250
Lot Size: –
Property Type: Detached Single Family, 2 Stories
Style: Colonial
Year Built: 2009
HD, a lot of MDs don’t make that much (relatively speaking). In fact, I have been quite surprised at how little they do make for the amount of schooling required (and loans). I would say being a doctor has got to be one of the worst ROI professions in terms of income relative to actual skills and schooling required.
hd – your redfin link sends us to a small 50s Chicago bungalow for $390,000 not the colonial house you think it sends us to.
HD: “An MD recently bought a SFH in my ‘hood. They paid in the $300’s. A bonafide MD. In the $300’s. ”
1. I assume you mean doctor of medicine, not managing director.
2. If s/he’s a GP, Ped, etc. (ie, not one of the 8-10 high paid specialties), s/he makes less money than you think.
3. If s/he had to pay her/his own way thru med school, your debt load is tiny in comparison.
HD: ” PITI … costs $3,500 or more”
With 20% down and 6% mtg*, the P+I alone on $710k is ~$3500. And those taxes are almost certainly going up.
*(Are jumbos under 6 available now? If so, let me know (well, under 5.75, actually), please–no points, tho)
I don’t think schools are usually at the top of the list of amenities for city buyers. Access to restaurants, transportation, and other shopping/amenities is what is important to most of these buyers. Most of these areas are in complete transition anyway. However, that could very well change since RE is now becoming a much longer term play, so the buyers may very well have to consider school options much more closely than in the past.
I have seen this in other cities as well. What once were crappy neighborhoods have been gentrified in terms of amenities and housing stock, but the schools still suck by in large. In some cases, the parents have been very successful in turning around the public school, but in most cases, private school is still the only real option.
Walking distance to North/Damen/Milwaukee/Blue line? It’s almost 3/4 of a mile, a healthy 15min walk. Not the end of the world, but really not that close either.
Pretty cool to see property in this area here still selling like this– considering only 12 short years ago, gangbangers threw “dog fight parties” once or twice a week in the yard just a block over (in case anyone wonders about the ’96 price!!).
HD, thanks for clearing that up. I am unable to log in to the site and the info I placed there is what showed up for the listing, and i didn’t see any alternative listings on Google… I’m guessing at this price point, you can afford to send your kid to a decent private school, however.
Jumbos are in the mid 4s for a 5/1 ARM, upper 4s for a 7/1 ARM. Around 5% for a 10/1 arm. If you can swing a 25% down payment. Lower if you pay points (don’t know why people are against paying points).
LG,
“you should spend some more time exploring”
I don’t know how to answer that? but to say “the overall neighborhood is great.” that close to western i will now laugh and laugh and laugh. yeah the wicker area is spreading up from damen. but still seriously lets go hang out on western in the summer together around 10pm, we will play a game of which pansy will get uncomforatable first? it wont be me cause i will borrow my cousins caprice classic sittin on 24’s and will fit in fine.
and yes i channeld my inner ghetto with “sittin on 24’s” comment
“I would say being a doctor has got to be one of the worst ROI professions in terms of income relative to actual skills and schooling required.”
All about location. I know many doctors outside of major metro areas who make much more money than they would in Chicago/NYC/. The supply/demand curve is just much different.
Groove: “as for me i just dont get it, i dont get why a person, other than a doctor (or person that works at st. Mary’s) or a hard core boricua, would pay 700k for the area? i guess i am lame/out-of-touch/square cause i am not getting it?”
Nah, you just hate Bucktown and Wicker Park is close to Bucktown. This is a great area – very close to Division which has great places between Damen and Western (unlike North which has better development between Ashland and Damen IMO).
Good price for this place – based on the price increase, the seller must have thought they priced it too low (and they did obviously). That being said, it’s nice to see someone that doesn’t ask a pie-in-the-sky number right out of the box.
“Well, not everyone. An MD recently bought a SFH in my ‘hood. They paid in the $300’s. A bonafide MD. In the $300’s. Amazing – not everyone with money feels the need to spend every last dime of net income on housing.”
Maybe he has 250k of student loans to pay off like my friend who recently became a MD does…
HD,
“It’s a SFH in a trendy area, walking distance from the North/Damen/Milwaukee intersections, lots of great places to eat, some places to shop, close to the highway”
i get that part but this is getting closer to western and between to shytie schools.
I am supprised you are gung-ho on this place. and saying its a good price!!!!!!!!!!!!
dude when i decided to buy in the ghetto i realized its the ghetto and didnt need to pay crazy bubbled non ghetto prices.
Russ,
“I don’t think schools are usually at the top of the list of amenities for city buyers”
i would like to differ, yeah who cared in 1995-2008 what school was there you can just move.
now brother its a different game. moving in 5 years does not guarantee 10% a year appreciation we are looking at 1% if any for the next 5 years.
People now need to look at this cause they may have to hunker down for 10 years at their new place.
Jon,
“Nah, you just hate Bucktown and Wicker Park is close to Bucktown. This is a great area – very close to Division which has great places between Damen and Western (unlike North which has better development between Ashland and Damen IMO)”
all very true points, and i do like division, wifey drags me there twice a month and we always have to stop at some german bakery by the hospital cant remember the name. (some pastry reminders her of her “old country”).
but when you get close to western i will still say it changes. i know even though the boricua flag still flies there its not a puerto rican rich hood like it used to be.
“I am supprised you are gung-ho on this place. and saying its a good price”
C’mon groove, HD’s just saying he understands why someone he considers a dope was drawn to the place.
But I bet he likes the house, doesn’t hate the hood, but thinks it would appeal to *him* at ~$375k, max.
Groove, if you want to get out of the ghetto, tell your wife that you need to save money instead of spendin money at all these places in nice hoods 🙂
“I hate when they don’t list sq.ft. I makes it hard to figure out that all important dollars per sq.ft.”
1. MG’s gotten burned by us more than once for listing SF. I don’t blame him for not, so long as the floorplans are always there (can still get to the FP thru the prior post, as of right now).
2. Looks like ~3250 gross SF, before deducting stairs, etc. 18’+/- wide and 60’+/- long times three levels.
“tell your wife that you need to save money instead of spendin money at all these places in nice hoods”
you are more than welcome to ASK her that, i will be there for back up, but i will be WAY IN THE BACK 🙂
sonies its a choice we made long ago, to have a lot of equity in our home, our mortgage to be a minuscule bill so we can enjoy life. i will admit my ghetto hood last few years has irked me the past few years, but i get over it quick 😉
anon,
“But I bet he likes the house, doesn’t hate the hood, but thinks it would appeal to *him* at ~$375k, max”
uh oh i see a HD/Anon fight comming 🙂
“uh oh i see a HD/Anon fight comming”
Nothing to fight about there. Maybe I’m misjudging HD, but I bet I’m in the ballpark. Maybe ~$325k would have been the better guess.
ps: At $325k, I might move, if the house came with auto-admit to Near North Montessori.
Anyone who pays above ask in today’s market is a fing idiot. Pure emotional purchase.
> Anyone who pays above ask in today’s market is a fing idiot. Pure emotional purchase.
Everything, no matter what the price is over-priced. Everything.
Just like everything, no matter what the price, was a good investment 3 years ago. Everything.
This house sold below ask…
“This house sold below ask”
If only they’d jumped on it when it was first listed for $20k less. And they were lucky to get the contract signed so fast; if they’d waited til November, it would have gone up another $20k, no doubt.
“Only in Chicago can you have a nice, expensive home in a great area, yet be stuck with a high school like Clemente. The $700’s in Park Ridge buys this and gives access to Hillary Clinton’s graduating high school, Maine South.”
Hell, you can have a large mansion in East Kenilworth for some of the prices paid in LP, LV, etc. — even in this market. Remember though — suburban comparisons are not allowed, after all, this is *Chicago* real estate and everyone wants to live in the city… forever and ever.
Anon(tfo) of course $325k is a good deal but I recognize that there will always be dual income households in trendy areas who will pay/overpay for prime real estate. I think realistically this house should have been in the low $600’s or high $500’s, so I still think that this house is overvalued by about 15% or 20% like most of the the higher end neighborhoods around Chicago; I think the decline will be gradual, in the sense that 5 years from now $700k is going to buy one of those cookie cutter new construction SFH that went up all over wicker, bucktown, UV, Westtown, etc and people will be looking at this home saying you paid $700 for that?
“I think realistically this house should have been in the low $600’s or high $500’s”
You must not know that area at all. There are condos going for more than that. You should really distinguish between what people are willing to pay and what advice you would give them before they get outbid or put in an offer so low that they don’t even get a response. High $500’s for this? C’mon.
“Only in Chicago can you have a nice, expensive home in a great area, yet be stuck with a high school like Clemente”
There’s this little town called EnWhyCee you may have heard of. Also EsEff and EllA. I don’t think the HS’s in Seattle/Boston/etc are any great shakes, either, tho homes are similarly expensive.
It ain’t Chicago, it’s big most US cities.
I’m familiar enough with the area and I know that the rent/own parity on those condos is way off. The condos also need to come down in price, they need to be lower than the $500’s they current sell for.
How long can this bifurcated market last, where the nice neighborhoods stay very expensive, and other areas are affordable, with very little middle priced inventory? If your answer is that the US is turning to Brazil, well then, that’s an answer, but, if you are like me and believe the housing market has another leg down…then we’ll just wait and see.
“#
Jon on November 6th, 2009 at 10:33 am
“I think realistically this house should have been in the low $600’s or high $500’s”
You must not know that area at all. There are condos going for more than that. You should really distinguish between what people are willing to pay and what advice you would give them before they get outbid or put in an offer so low that they don’t even get a response. High $500’s for this? C’mon.
“
There’s a premium for being in the city but I don’t think it’s irrational. Setting aside the general bubble, it has always been true that it costs more to live in the city. Why? For me, being in the right location can cut 45 minutes to an hour off my commute versus suburbs. And stuff my family and I want to do is predominantly in the city.
That said, the thing that gives me second thoughts is that, much more than in the suburbs, city neighborhoods do come and go in attractiveness over the long run. I don’t mind paying a city premium but I’d hate to pay top dollar for a house that loses value over 30 years. And I think it’s hard to judge how well neighborhoods will hold up. There are a lot of city neighborhoods that have appreciated during the bubble. Absent fundamental changes in households’ interest in living in the city versus suburbs, some of the newly fashionable city neighborhoods may slide back.
“offer so low that they don’t even get a response”
Actually the opposite appears to be happening with much greater frequency….sellers try a selling price so high that they don’t even get a response.
“The condos also need to come down in price, they need to be lower than the $500’s they current sell for.”
Really? I hope not. I think whatever equation/theory you are espousing ignores two things: (1) the willing and able buyer (there are still some left) and (2) people’s desire to pay more to live in a decent neighborhood.
Why do the $500’s condos need to come down in price? Because you say so? It’s not going to happen for that reason – the $500s, mind you, can be 2/2s even…
Also, remember that you aren’t always dealing with the property virgin/first time buyer, so the rent/own parity you refer to isn’t always a consideration. A lot of people are looking at it from an own this versus own that perspective.
Great neighborhood, classic residence with the right proportions. Does anyone really buy a place they love based upon the lowest cost PSF option?
Nothing wrong with a pure emotional purchase if you are buying it to live, not to flip.
And HD, why would anyone compare this location to Park Ridge? Some of us non-breeders do not want to adopt kids….. I would never buy a place based upon schools.
“I think realistically this house should have been in the low $600’s or high $500’s”
Oh, I wasn’t saying that you thought it should have sold for $375k right now, just that that price would be about what might make *you* interested in it.
As to ~$600k for the house, yeah, that’s what it probably *should* be, but in the spectrum of available housing, as Jon points out, that’s just not gonna happen (yet?), as there are condos nearby actually selling for that ballpark.
I do think this was a better value (less incendiary than “deal”) than the Berteau house, even tho I could never deal with that little storage space in the kitchen (and yes, I did see the pantry closet).
Jon:
1) unemployment is 10.2%
2) there are 2.7 million (or more) properties in the foreclosure pipeline;
3) B of A has over 3,000,000 HAMP loan mods in the pipeline as we speak, and that’s just Wells;
4) foreclosure have again started to spike upward as moratoriums end;
5) lending is ‘tight’ or as some point out ‘normal’ now that 20% or higher is required for properties like these
This was the largest real estate bubble *in history*. Don’t fool yourself into believing that a $500 3/2 in Wicker Park is the ‘bottom’.
Here’s a little trick: search wicker park, UV, Bucktown, etc, and look at CCRD for the 2/2’s and 3/2’s for sale. take an informal count. you will be shocked to see that there are quite a few with ‘load modifications’ recorded against the property and quite a few even have lis pendens recorded against them. Amazing. If $500k is the bottom, there are plenty of people who can’t even afford that.
“why would anyone compare this location to Park Ridge?”
’tis a very good question. But some don’t understand why a couple w/ no kids ever would want a “4 BR” house.
‘course, this looks to live like a 2BR + Den/3d BR + Basement Office/Exercise room. Seems to me like the perfect size for a couple who have more-than-occassional out-of-town guests (and/or favored, local nieces/nephews/little sibs). I have no-kids friends who would totally dig it, but aren’t interested in spending $700k.
“Don’t fool yourself into believing that a $500 3/2 in Wicker Park is the ‘bottom’.”
I could have pasted your whole post here, but hey. I don’t think we’re disagreeing about much here other than your price for this place is either grounded in (a) not reality or (b) the dismal future you are predicting based on very real factors. But this house sold for what it did with — as the post makes clear — a multiple offer/increased price scenario. Your idea of what this place should have sold for doesn’t matter to the seller and doesn’t matter to they buyer.
As far as the loan modifications/lis pendens filed against some of the 2/2 & 2/3s in the neighborhood, I’m not shocked. People overbuy.
Jon,
I think the most relevant portion of what I said in my post was that in a handful of years, the cookie cutter newer construction homes are going to be $700k, $800k, maybe less, and the $700k for this, in hindsight, will be a bad decision.
And as far as the loan mods/lis pendens, yes people overbuy, lots of people, that’s what drove the price of a 2/2 – 3/2 to $500k and higher.
Paulj,
I wasn’t as much comparing the two homes as much as I was comparing what sort of high school districts $700k buys these days. it was just an observation. I would have made a intra-city comparison if there was a decent CPS high school to compare it to.
DZ,
Bro you hit it on the head!!!!!!
“city neighborhoods do come and go in attractiveness over the long run”
I would like to see this house on this block in 20 years or even 10. then lets see if the owner will be able to 700k for it.
there are some neighborhoods that change for the better and stay that way, others that always cross back and forth the line, and some that slip into oblivion. See some of the beautiful grey stone mansions on south michigan ave for a history lesson.
To be clear, it was listed at $699,000 and we received multiple offers. Once we came to a deal with one party, I raised the price so that the appraiser would give it a fair shake and to increase the chances that it would appraise out b/c the price paid was more than asking. The list price SHOULD NOT have any bearing on the appraised value but in this market it does.
Nice place. The buyers got a good deal.
“To be clear, it was listed at $699,000 and we received multiple offers. Once we came to a deal with one party, I raised the price so that the appraiser would give it a fair shake and to increase the chances that it would appraise out b/c the price paid was more than asking…”
WHAT??
Sounds like a classic fraudlent action by a realtor. Oh wait, I just read wh…
Never mind…
“Great neighborhood, classic residence with the right proportions. Does anyone really buy a place they love based upon the lowest cost PSF option?
Nothing wrong with a pure emotional purchase if you are buying it to live, not to flip.
And HD, why would anyone compare this location to Park Ridge? Some of us non-breeders do not want to adopt kids….. I would never buy a place based upon schools.”
All great points. Not everyone considers schools if they do not plan on breeding. I have no problem paying a premium price when buying a residence for myself and usually disregard the ppsf equation. If it has all of the items I require and appeals to me, no problem.
“Once we came to a deal with one party, I raised the price so that the appraiser would give it a fair shake and to increase the chances that it would appraise out b/c the price paid was more than asking. The list price SHOULD NOT have any bearing on the appraised value but in this market it does”
Wow that’s hella shady
I wonder what happens if the buyer were to default on payments and the bank discovered that the realtor had played fast and loose with the price to get it to appraise out and get a loan. I wouldn’t want to be that realtor.
“Wow that’s hella shady”
Surprised to see there are still shady relitters being somewhat successful in this market. I thought the first shaking of the rug would have loosened the bugs, but it appears that was not the case.
HEHE Jon…my thoughts exactly…
I’ve seen this happening one too many times in South Florida RE games. Just buy a one way ticket to Rio and all is fine.
Appraisers sometimes anchor to the list price. I have seen situations where the listing price was lower than market to create a multiple offer situation. However, the appraiser would still anchor to the artificially low listing price and thus the appraisal would come up short with the appraiser not knowing that the final contract price at the time of the appraisal was after a multiple offer scenario. Of course, the final contract price still has to be supported with solid comps though.
Raising the list price in order to get an appraisal that will support a loan: SKETCHY.
Writing about doing it on a website: DUMB.
I don’t think its illegal or unethical so whatever. I don’t consider MG dumb because he probably takes home more than any of us that post here, so..
To clarify, I said writing about the practice in my opinion is dumb. Manipulating numbers to obtain financing just doesn’t seem right to me.
i dont think that what MG did was sketchy,
its these lazy appraisers that are sketchy.
at the end of it all, we see the bubble is still going strong when the person need 20k extra fibbing on the price TO QUALIFY OF THE LOAN. to me it sounds like another overextended borrower to me.
ANY type of number juggling in this market is not only dumb, it IS unethical. I have a feeling his kind will someday (soon I suspect) feel exactly how dumb it really is.
I don’t understand what you are saying Groove, it was not the seller who juggled the numbers, it was the realtor who did so in a mad race for his commission. Anytime instances of sketchiness (fraud) like this occurs, it affects not only those involved but buyers who are looking in that area… and entire city as well.
Messing around with misrepresenting the real square footage of a listing and blowing it off is one thing, doing something like this in order to get a sale is quite another.
“I don’t understand what you are saying Groove”
most people dont 🙁
I was just stating that the BUYERS needed this adjustment so that the loan would go through. which (assumption) means the buyers are overleveraging the loan like mort=80% heloc=10% and down=10%, or even if the buyers are coming in with 20% down. they cant get financing if the house appraises for 699k so they would either need to bring more money to the table or the appraisal needs to be higher.
now to me thats just another person buying something the cant afford. ‘high mr buuble good to see you never left’
Most of the time I understand your points Groove, but on this one you are mistaken big time….or better to say…if you knew agents like I knew agents, you would see the trickery being played out here.
And it is to no one’s advantage other than his own.
“And it is to no one’s advantage other than his own”
how is it to his own, dont agents only get commission on the sales price?
Appraisals are really iffy these days for a number of reasons. Part of the problem is that HVCC has cut the margins on appraisals in half and taken away the ability for the LOs to select quality appraisers. As a result, you have appraisers getting paid half what they normally make and then not having any repercussions of doing a shitty job as well since they are going to get paid anyway regardless if their crappy appraisal kills the deal.
Wait until you are a homeowner and some appraiser randomly selected (cheapest available) from Joilet comes to appraiser your condo in River North. He kills your deal comping it with a 2/1 in Park Ridge and takes your $350. You won’t be too happy.
Appraising a home is very much an art, not a science. Often times the appraisers will anchor to the listing price ahead of time. This can be a problem if the listing price was on the low side to generate interest and or a quick sale with multiple offers. Sometimes, the appraisers may not have all the details and thus produce a flawed report.
The appraiser has a copy of the sale contract and has access to the MLS listing history BEFROE and AFTER the appraisal so what I and other competent agents do to protect our SELLERS from appraisers who will cut corners and look at the list price and do nothing else to decide if the property is worth what the buyer paid is not only ethical but mandatory to actually do our jobs. Our job isn’t to please the peanut gallery. And it might surprise some of you that an APPRAISER actually suggested adjustments like this to the list price so as to minimize the chances that the seller doesn’t get screwed by a bad (not low, but incorrect) appraisal.
BEFORE not BEFROE 🙂
“do to protect our SELLERS from appraisers”
i dont get how the change of the list is advantageous to the seller after an offer is accepted? to me (a complete idiot and dont know the ins and out’s of the biz) only see it for the buyer for financing.
“i dont get how the change of the list is advantageous to the seller after an offer is accepted? to me … only see it for the buyer for financing.”
If buyer can’t finance, buyer can’t close. If buyer can’t close, seller gets no $$.
If seller gets nothing out of a sale closing, why are they selling?
“If buyer can’t finance, buyer can’t close”
which leads me to my previous statement
“now to me thats just another person buying something the cant afford. (high mr bubble good to see you never left)”
If the buyer doesn’t get financing, the seller doesn’t sell – and the other offer(s) seller had 30 days earlier is almost always gone. Even if it isn’t gone, sellers are generally making plans for the next roof over their head so a deal dying over an appraisal 30 days into a deal is the worst of all worlds.
I can give plenty of examples where there shouldn’t be an appraisal issue at all (i.e., accepted contract was 90% of asking or less) and the appraisal comes back bad for no reason other than Joliet Charlie pulled a comp from “pretend Old Town” at 13– N. Cleveland for his appraisal at 500 W. Superior in River North b/c they are in the same MLS area (8008).